Male Foreigners Over 50 Outlawed From Marrying Cambodian Women

[inmysights]

What a crock of <deleted>. This will probably give the Thai politicians some new ideas. I married my 49 year old Thai wife when I was 56. So what's this "robbing the cradle" BS? Most of my over 50 friends are married to middle aged Thai women! Come on... And I don't know anyone in a "sham marriage"

I totally agree with your point regarding farangs marrying Thais approximately same age, (my Thai husband just 3 years younger than me). and believe Cambodia taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, as usual Asian Way.

On the other hand, do come across a lot of young Thai women who aren't at all happy with their drunken farang 'husbands' whose sole function seems to bed and board them. Hence so many disillusioned Issan women applying to their local Amphurs to divorce.

A lovely young woman who's been with a farang (not married - he doesn't want to) recently confided in me that she'd been offered a relatively high paying salary from a friend in the UK (no, not anything to do with sex trade) and I told her to 'go for it'. She's never seen anything outside Thailand and is very astute, proficient in English. She agreed better option than something like Pattaya or yet another old farang. Or staying as the present old farangs housemaid/sex on demand toy.

Edited March 17, 2011 by inmysights

[luckizuchinni]

The law has some merit. I for one am sickened by what I see here in Thailand all too often. Some old dude cruzing around with his young 20 something bride and the little baby in tow. Which I might add that baby inevitably grows up without a father after he turns over from old age . And men enslaving thier 'wives' as prostitutes in thier homeland is another problem.

However it also has some laughable conditions. $2550 per month is a joke.If a Cambodian was on $2550k a month they would be in the high society group in Phnom Phen. Also the age thing should be adjusted to an age differential as opposed to the 'cannot marry' for over 50 year olds. So what they are saying is that a 51 year old foriegner wants to marry a 49 year old Khmer then that it against the law. Please.

So you infer that it is OK for a 51 year old man and a 49 year old woman to marry. But it is wrong for some old dude to have a 20 something bride? Where is the dividing line? 40 with a 30? 35 with a 30?

Give me a break. You can be sickened all you want, but it is none of your freaking business if two people want to marry and have a kid.

[DumFarang]

What ever the motives may be, i know that many Thai men resent and feel they are losing face because Thai women find them repulsive in their ways, they have the opportunity to chose a so called better and easier life,with a farang, high ranking officials,probably feel thay are being seen as dickless and inadiquate to fulfill a womans desires, and are really pissed off,...just a thought...

So why these "repulsive" straight Thai men do not get things right. Shower, shave, stop drinking etc... They are repulsive indeed.

What Thai men do you guys regularly come across? I'm a relatively hygienic person, but I've found that Thai people in general take it to another level. I haven't met hardly any Thai men who don't shave and bathe regularly (often two showers per day), not to mention keeping neat, pressed clothes. I usually look like a slob by comparison b/c I don't really care if I skip shaving for a couple days.

What I've noticed is that a very solid percentage of Thai men just don't commit to a woman very well. Okay, yeah, they drink, maybe gamble too, but I drink also. Big deal. More than anything I've seen Thai women get fed up with the men due to infidelity, and then just get to throw on the drinking etc. onto the pile of complaints. I don't know maybe I'm surrounded by proper Thais. Perhaps I should try living in the country for a while.

[F1fanatic]

The law has some merit. I for one am sickened by what I see here in Thailand all too often. Some old dude cruzing around with his young 20 something bride and the little baby in tow. Which I might add that baby inevitably grows up without a father after he turns over from old age . And men enslaving thier 'wives' as prostitutes in thier homeland is another problem.

However it also has some laughable conditions. $2550 per month is a joke.If a Cambodian was on $2550k a month they would be in the high society group in Phnom Phen. Also the age thing should be adjusted to an age differential as opposed to the 'cannot marry' for over 50 year olds. So what they are saying is that a 51 year old foriegner wants to marry a 49 year old Khmer then that it against the law. Please.

So you infer that it is OK for a 51 year old man and a 49 year old woman to marry. But it is wrong for some old dude to have a 20 something bride? Where is the dividing line? 40 with a 30? 35 with a 30?

Give me a break. You can be sickened all you want, but it is none of your freaking business if two people want to marry and have a kid.

It will matter in the future. To repeat a previous post:

"If one sees an old man with a young woman in the West - everyone assumes its his daughter, grand-daughter etc. Here, everyone assumes its his g/f, wife etc.

At the moment its not too much of a problem as the assumption is correct 99% of the time, but what will happen in the future now that so many farangs have retired here and had children with their Thai wives?

They are going to find it v tough when everyone assumes their daughter - is their g/f/wife."

Edited March 17, 2011 by F1fanatic

[johnefallis]

Wow, how great! I was considering living in Cambodia as opposed to Thailand next trip because I thought it might be easier to accumulate more cash if I reduced my living expenses....now I don't have to worry about making up an excuse not to get married...just say I'm over 50, or wait until I am...simple enough....cool.

[blabla1]

He was being sarcastic i dare say....

What ever the motives may be, i know that many Thai men resent and feel they are losing face because Thai women find them repulsive in their ways, they have the opportunity to chose a so called better and easier life,with a farang, high ranking officials,probably feel thay are being seen as dickless and inadiquate to fulfill a womans desires, and are really pissed off,...just a thought...

So why these "repulsive" straight Thai men do not get things right. Shower, shave, stop drinking etc... They are repulsive indeed.

What Thai men do you guys regularly come across? I'm a relatively hygienic person, but I've found that Thai people in general take it to another level. I haven't met hardly any Thai men who don't shave and bathe regularly (often two showers per day), not to mention keeping neat, pressed clothes. I usually look like a slob by comparison b/c I don't really care if I skip shaving for a couple days.

What I've noticed is that a very solid percentage of Thai men just don't commit to a woman very well. Okay, yeah, they drink, maybe gamble too, but I drink also. Big deal. More than anything I've seen Thai women get fed up with the men due to infidelity, and then just get to throw on the drinking etc. onto the pile of complaints. I don't know maybe I'm surrounded by proper Thais. Perhaps I should try living in the country for a while.

[DumFarang]

I don't see why you should be flamed even though I don't agree with you. I cant speak for Thai women as I am gay but my partner and I have been in civil partnership for 5 years now - there is a 40 year age gap but he would not have it any other way and does not find younger guys attractive - in much the same way as I don't find guys of 40 and 50 attractive. In asian culture there is I believe a different attitude towards age - sure some are money boys and girls and older guys make for less effort on their part. But after 5 years together the mutual attraction between us is as strong as it ever was. My partner is also attracted to overweight guys - everyone has preferences that should be respected. We were both adult when me met and I would hate to think of a government telling us whether we could marry or not.

Even where marriages are not quite as genuine there is still often mutual respect with the younger person happy to please their partner and the older partner happy to make provision for them after they die. In those situations it is a mutually beneficial relationship which hurts no one.

I believe that much of the trafficking is actually undertaken by much younger more attractive guys who are working for gangs anyway.

that's why i said for the wrong reasons. no doubt there are happily married couples with big age differences, but i'm also sure that for every 1 happy couple, there are 9 only about sex and money. i've met many couples where the husband is 60 or so and has a wife covered in back tattoos who's around 20, sometimes pushing around a baby stroller. and when i look at those women, i can tell they're not happy. i know this is not what you meant, but yes, there is mutual respect, guy gets laid, girl gets money.

They may or may not be happy man, who knows? You know a lot of people in our western countries have the luxury of saying things like, "money isn't everything" and "money can't buy you love." If you look at a lot of people in S.E. Asia how is a statement like that going to make any sense to them at all when all they've ever know is hardly having any money? It's simply not an easy situation to point at and pick apart. You might have seen a woman in a bad mood. Likely as not she grew up in a glorified pile of sticks in Isaan or something. Ask her if she wants to be able to afford a stroller or go back to her pile of sticks surrounded by farms. Likely as not she'll take the latter, whatever it entails. Or, maybe she's just on the journey of life, and is discovering that money and happiness aren't necessarily linked. I say let 'em live and learn, and some might truly find happiness.

and that's my point exactly, they get married not out of love, but to get away from the pile of sticks. and a large number of men come here because they know they can emotionally "blackmail" girls they like into staying with them because they have an asset, their money.

Well we are still dealing with human beings here, despite some being brown and some white. Human nature always prevails. It'll likely correct itself one day. At no point in human history has one group taken advantage of another ad infinitum. Live and learn, it's the better way.

[bangon04]

What a crock of <deleted>. This will probably give the Thai politicians some new ideas. I married my 49 year old Thai wife when I was 56. So what's this "robbing the cradle" BS? Most of my over 50 friends are married to middle aged Thai women! Come on... And I don't know anyone in a "sham marriage"

I totally agree with your point regarding farangs marrying Thais approximately same age, (my Thai husband just 3 years younger than me). and believe Cambodia taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, as usual Asian Way.

On the other hand, do come across a lot of young Thai women who aren't at all happy with their drunken farang 'husbands' whose sole function seems to bed and board them. Hence so many disillusioned Issan women applying to their local Amphurs to divorce.

A lovely young woman who's been with a farang (not married - he doesn't want to) recently confided in me that she'd been offered a relatively high paying salary from a friend in the UK (no, not anything to do with sex trade) and I told her to 'go for it'. She's never seen anything outside Thailand and is very astute, proficient in English. She agreed better option than something like Pattaya or yet another old farang. Or staying as the present old farangs housemaid/sex on demand toy.

So please inform us what is the politically correct maximum age difference in a relationship? Is it 5 years, 10 years? It seems to be common knowledge that all western men over 50 are drunken child molesters, so shouldn't they all be forced to marry older women just to prove their innocence? Does the age difference only apply to interracial marriages or should these "standards"be applied to Thai/Thai relationships too? Please tell...

[travelmann]

Oh Gawd I am finally in demand. Im only 47!!

[DumFarang]

Oh Gawd I am finally in demand. Im only 47!!

Man, you are going to get laid every night!

[ballpoint]

And there's the difference between 'normal' life in the West and 'normal' life here!

If one sees an old man with a young woman in the West - everyone assumes its his daughter, grand-daughter etc. Here, everyone assumes its his g/f, wife etc.

At the moment its not too much of a problem as the assumption is correct 99% of the time, but what will happen in the future now that so many farangs have retired here and had children with their Thai wives?

They are going to find it v tough when everyone assumes their daughter - is their g/f/wife.

Assuming they care what a bunch of strangers think. And, before I get put into the "dirty old man" category, I'm in my mid 40's, and so is my wife, but I simply couldn't care less if two people of varying legal age want to get married, for whatever reason.

(edited to add) Earthquake, tsunami and possible nuclear disaster in Japan, Gaddafi killing Libyans, censure debate underway and the biggest topic is a bunch of prudes sickened by two people of legal age getting together for (alleged) reasons other than love. Get a life.

Edited March 17, 2011 by ballpoint

[jdinasia]

I totally agree with your point regarding farangs marrying Thais approximately same age, (my Thai husband just 3 years younger than me). and believe Cambodia taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, as usual Asian Way.

On the other hand, do come across a lot of young Thai women who aren't at all happy with their drunken farang 'husbands' whose sole function seems to bed and board them. Hence so many disillusioned Issan women applying to their local Amphurs to divorce.

A lovely young woman who's been with a farang (not married - he doesn't want to) recently confided in me that she'd been offered a relatively high paying salary from a friend in the UK (no, not anything to do with sex trade) and I told her to 'go for it'. She's never seen anything outside Thailand and is very astute, proficient in English. She agreed better option than something like Pattaya or yet another old farang. Or staying as the present old farangs housemaid/sex on demand toy.

So what you are saying (summarized --- and possibly misunderstood by me,) is that if people don't choose your relationship as a role-model then they are wrong?

My partner is 14 years younger than me. Does that mean that I fall into your stereotype?

and lastly ... can you document ANY numbers of "Isaan women applying to their local Amphurs to divorce"? Is this number by percentage higher or lower than the numbers applying for divorce from Thai spouses?

[EyesWideOpen]

Funny stuff !!!! Am now in Phnom Penh , and woke up to read this. .... Thank god !!! Now I will no longer have to fend off marriage proposals from super cute poor village girls, as being over 50 has apparently put me out of the running as a suitable marriage partner.

Will this law create a flood of farangs rushing to Cambodia to escape the clutches of bar girls ??? :-)

[eagleflyinghigh]

What Thai men do you guys regularly come across?

I am happy to deal mostly with gay guys and they are well groomed indeed and very attractive to woman. It is becoming fashionable for straight men in Thailand to ape us gay people. Kind of metrosexual behavior.

[inmysights]

What ever the motives may be, i know that many Thai men resent and feel they are losing face because Thai women find them repulsive in their ways, they have the opportunity to chose a so called better and easier life,with a farang, high ranking officials,probably feel thay are being seen as dickless and inadiquate to fulfill a womans desires, and are really pissed off,...just a thought...

So why these "repulsive" straight Thai men do not get things right. Shower, shave, stop drinking etc... They are repulsive indeed.

What Thai men do you guys regularly come across? I'm a relatively hygienic person, but I've found that Thai people in general take it to another level. I haven't met hardly any Thai men who don't shave and bathe regularly (often two showers per day), not to mention keeping neat, pressed clothes. I usually look like a slob by comparison b/c I don't really care if I skip shaving for a couple days.

What I've noticed is that a very solid percentage of Thai men just don't commit to a woman very well. Okay, yeah, they drink, maybe gamble too, but I drink also. Big deal. More than anything I've seen Thai women get fed up with the men due to infidelity, and then just get to throw on the drinking etc. onto the pile of complaints. I don't know maybe I'm surrounded by proper Thais. Perhaps I should try living in the country for a while.

Exactly. The ONLY farang men I've met have not a bloody clue as to the 'Thai Man', apart from those patronising bastards who claim their pool cleaner/handyman/gardener/mechanic to be 'their 'mate'' Ha! I've also a not so sneaking suspicion, having observed them alone with Thai men, they (the farang men) are afraid of them, not knowing how to conduct themselves faced with the true (non bar GIRL) side of Thai culture. It's funny and pathetic at the same time.

They don't bother to understand their Thai 'girlfriend/wives' culture, rarely eating Thai food or bothering with the most fundamental phrases 'apart from one more Chang kup', so why would they bother being truly knowledgeable about Thai men (who I too have found much more concerned with their personal hygiene than their farang counterparts).

As to your second point regards infidelity/alcoholism, again, the majority of farang men meet these girls in bars. Those who have been deserted by these 'particular' Thai husbands and have assuaged their guilt at taking advantage of them, by paying them for sexual services. Stop deluding yourselves. Robin Bloody Hood you ain't.

And by the way, a Thai woman, ANY Thai woman having to sell her arse in a bar, would much prefer a sturdily built, beautifully skinned, softly spoken Thai man over a flatulent fatmouthed farang, any day. That's why the younger ones always keep their Thai boyfriends/husbands in the background.

Edited March 17, 2011 by inmysights

[Chua]

But this does not prevent men over 50 from living with Cambodian women nor impregnating them. So all this new rule will do is create many more single parent "families" where the father has no real responsibility and the mother has no financial security. This policy is therefore going to hurt Cambodian society more than help it.

[luckizuchinni]

The law has some merit. I for one am sickened by what I see here in Thailand all too often. Some old dude cruzing around with his young 20 something bride and the little baby in tow. Which I might add that baby inevitably grows up without a father after he turns over from old age . And men enslaving thier 'wives' as prostitutes in thier homeland is another problem.

However it also has some laughable conditions. $2550 per month is a joke.If a Cambodian was on $2550k a month they would be in the high society group in Phnom Phen. Also the age thing should be adjusted to an age differential as opposed to the 'cannot marry' for over 50 year olds. So what they are saying is that a 51 year old foriegner wants to marry a 49 year old Khmer then that it against the law. Please.

So you infer that it is OK for a 51 year old man and a 49 year old woman to marry. But it is wrong for some old dude to have a 20 something bride? Where is the dividing line? 40 with a 30? 35 with a 30?

Give me a break. You can be sickened all you want, but it is none of your freaking business if two people want to marry and have a kid.

It will matter in the future. To repeat a previous post:

"If one sees an old man with a young woman in the West - everyone assumes its his daughter, grand-daughter etc. Here, everyone assumes its his g/f, wife etc.

At the moment its not too much of a problem as the assumption is correct 99% of the time, but what will happen in the future now that so many farangs have retired here and had children with their Thai wives?

They are going to find it v tough when everyone assumes their daughter - is their g/f/wife."

Who cares what others assume? It is none of their business. If I am walking with my daughter and someone assumes she is my g/f, well, that is their problem, not mine.

It is self-righteous people who make these assumptions and who judge others which get in my craw, and I have very little tolerance for them. Yea, I am judging them by criticizing their professed feelings of moral superiority, but so be it. They are judging me, so tit for tat.

[aehn]

Why not just ban the old Korean men instead of all men.

I would very much prefer a ban on the old brits

[aehn]

<deleted>! Older Farangs will just stop going to Cambodia -- and remember -- we're the one's with most of the saved money. BTW, Central American countries will welcome you with open arms. So will Malaysia. What a bunch of losers -- no common sense at all.

lol

[Jingthing]

Seems harsh. But on the other hand straight people now can experience what the vast majority of the world's gay people have to live with, the state church dictating who you can and can't marry.

Red is mine.

No, state is what matters legally except in theocracies. Also, please don't alter people's posts that way.

[blabla1]

This got lost some where along the line, back to the subject and it will all make sense! no

What ever the motives may be, i know that many Thai men resent and feel they are losing face because Thai women find them repulsive in their ways, they have the opportunity to chose a so called better and easier life,with a farang, high ranking officials,probably feel thay are being seen as dickless and inadiquate to fulfill a womans desires, and are really pissed off,...just a thought...

So why these "repulsive" straight Thai men do not get things right. Shower, shave, stop drinking etc... They are repulsive indeed.

What Thai men do you guys regularly come across? I'm a relatively hygienic person, but I've found that Thai people in general take it to another level. I haven't met hardly any Thai men who don't shave and bathe regularly (often two showers per day), not to mention keeping neat, pressed clothes. I usually look like a slob by comparison b/c I don't really care if I skip shaving for a couple days.

What I've noticed is that a very solid percentage of Thai men just don't commit to a woman very well. Okay, yeah, they drink, maybe gamble too, but I drink also. Big deal. More than anything I've seen Thai women get fed up with the men due to infidelity, and then just get to throw on the drinking etc. onto the pile of complaints. I don't know maybe I'm surrounded by proper Thais. Perhaps I should try living in the country for a while.

Exactly. The ONLY farang men I've met have not a bloody clue as to the 'Thai Man', apart from those patronising bastards who claim their pool cleaner/handyman/gardener/mechanic to be 'their 'mate'' Ha! I've also a not so sneaking suspicion, having observed them alone with Thai men, they (the farang men) are afraid of them, not knowing how to conduct themselves faced with the true (non bar GIRL) side of Thai culture. It's funny and pathetic at the same time.

They don't bother to understand their Thai 'girlfriend/wives' culture, rarely eating Thai food or bothering with the most fundamental phrases 'apart from one more Chang kup', so why would they bother being truly knowledgeable about Thai men (who I too have found much more concerned with their personal hygiene than their farang counterparts).

As to your second point regards infidelity/alcoholism, again, the majority of farang men meet these girls in bars. Those who have been deserted by these 'particular' Thai husbands and have assuaged their guilt at taking advantage of them, by paying them for sexual services. Stop deluding yourselves. Robin Bloody Hood you ain't.

And by the way, a Thai woman, ANY Thai woman having to sell her arse in a bar, would much prefer a sturdily built, beautifully skinned, softly spoken Thai man over a flatulent fatmouthed farang, any day. That's why the younger ones always keep their Thai boyfriends/husbands in the background.

[brianb1944]

Seems harsh. But on the other hand straight people now can experience what the vast majority of the world's gay people have to live with, the state dictating who you can and can't marry.

Not buying into that little hot potato

[Jingthing]

Seems harsh. But on the other hand straight people now can experience what the vast majority of the world's gay people have to live with, the state dictating who you can and can't marry.

Not buying into that little hot potato

You don't have to buy it. If you're over 50 and you want to wed a Cambodian lady in Cambodia, you already bought it.

[F1fanatic]

The law has some merit. I for one am sickened by what I see here in Thailand all too often. Some old dude cruzing around with his young 20 something bride and the little baby in tow. Which I might add that baby inevitably grows up without a father after he turns over from old age . And men enslaving thier 'wives' as prostitutes in thier homeland is another problem.

However it also has some laughable conditions. $2550 per month is a joke.If a Cambodian was on $2550k a month they would be in the high society group in Phnom Phen. Also the age thing should be adjusted to an age differential as opposed to the 'cannot marry' for over 50 year olds. So what they are saying is that a 51 year old foriegner wants to marry a 49 year old Khmer then that it against the law. Please.

So you infer that it is OK for a 51 year old man and a 49 year old woman to marry. But it is wrong for some old dude to have a 20 something bride? Where is the dividing line? 40 with a 30? 35 with a 30?

Give me a break. You can be sickened all you want, but it is none of your freaking business if two people want to marry and have a kid.

It will matter in the future. To repeat a previous post:

"If one sees an old man with a young woman in the West - everyone assumes its his daughter, grand-daughter etc. Here, everyone assumes its his g/f, wife etc.

At the moment its not too much of a problem as the assumption is correct 99% of the time, but what will happen in the future now that so many farangs have retired here and had children with their Thai wives?

They are going to find it v tough when everyone assumes their daughter - is their g/f/wife."

Who cares what others assume? It is none of their business. If I am walking with my daughter and someone assumes she is my g/f, well, that is their problem, not mine.

It is self-righteous people who make these assumptions and who judge others which get in my craw, and I have very little tolerance for them. Yea, I am judging them by criticizing their professed feelings of moral superiority, but so be it. They are judging me, so tit for tat.

You're missing the point as presumably you do not have a teenage daughter from a Thai wife. If you did, you'd care VERY much that everyone assumed your daughter was a hooker!

[jdinasia]

You're missing the point as presumably you do not have a teenage daughter from a Thai wife. If you did, you'd care VERY much that everyone assumed your daughter was a hooker!

Here, everyone assumes its his g/f, wife etc.

You didn't mention hookers before .......

[luckizuchinni]

You're missing the point as presumably you do not have a teenage daughter from a Thai wife. If you did, you'd care VERY much that everyone assumed your daughter was a hooker!

No I am not missing the point. And you have no idea if I have a daughter, biological or not.

I will not live my life to suit some bigoted idiot's view of how the world should be. I frankly don't give a dam_n what repressed jerks believe as their opinions are not worth a warm kettle of spit. If I choose to care for the daughter of a woman from her previous relationship, well, that is of interest to me, to my new wife, and to the daughter. No one else. And screw anyone who take issue with it.

And if a 90 year old farang great grandpa wants to marry his 20 year old Thai honeywa, well screw anyone who takes issue with that, too. It's none of our freaking business.

[Kilgore Trout]

What happens if the woman is over 50? Does she have to find someone under 50 if she wants to marry a foreigner?

Right, and what if the woman is 49 and the husband to be 50?? What is inappropriate about that?

[dunkin2012]

For the Cambodian and the Thai, they prefer Farangs to the local. You can guess what they think 'bout. Be careful these chicks, they suck your blood dry. Trusting is so dam_n little to 'em. Take your own choice. Who care ! If 2 people will get together for whatever reasons. Gosh..

Edited March 17, 2011 by dunkin2012

[NanLaew]

You're missing the point as presumably you do not have a teenage daughter from a Thai wife. If you did, you'd care VERY much that everyone assumed your daughter was a hooker!

Here, everyone assumes its his g/f, wife etc.

You didn't mention hookers before .......

Don't worry, F1fan had a traumatic experience with one and it taints her outlook somewhat. Otherwise it would just be another narrow-minded view on the realities and practicalities of SE Asian ways.

Turkmenistan (which has some truly gorgeous women) had a law passed several years ago by their previous 'President for life' that required any foreign male seeking a Turkmen bride to pay the Turkmen government a non-refundable US$20,000 bond before the marriage could be approved.

Jingthing, if you are still shopping, there is no such price tag on the Turkmen male.

[Wallaby]

You're missing the point as presumably you do not have a teenage daughter from a Thai wife. If you did, you'd care VERY much that everyone assumed your daughter was a hooker!

No I am not missing the point. And you have no idea if I have a daughter, biological or not.

I will not live my life to suit some bigoted idiot's view of how the world should be. I frankly don't give a dam_n what repressed jerks believe as their opinions are not worth a warm kettle of spit. If I choose to care for the daughter of a woman from her previous relationship, well, that is of interest to me, to my new wife, and to the daughter. No one else. And screw anyone who take issue with it.

And if a 90 year old farang great grandpa wants to marry his 20 year old Thai honeywa, well screw anyone who takes issue with that, too. It's none of our freaking business.

Hit the nail on the head