Beware Of Property-Buying Scammers Online

[brahmburgers]

This has happened to me at least 3 times in the past several months. For starters, I have posted a house for sale. Then I get a response from someone who sounds very interested. Here are some indications that its probably a fraud:

1. the interested party agrees to the full price, doesn't try to bargain it down

2. he decides to buy it sight-unseen.

3. he may or may not want to do some fancy money transfer thing - asking you, the seller to facilitate a money transfer to another country.

4. he may want photocopies of title and passport.

5. he won't send a token Bt.1,000 to show good intentions, in exchange for photocopies of documents.

I haven't been duped yet, but am getting more aware of indications of fraud. The two earlier attempts were by people who claimed to be Irish. The most recent was a guy who insisted on passport photocopy or scan, which I didn't send. He was pretty good though, as he fooled a tech-savvy friend of mine (via a long chat) - who thought he was for real.

Be cautious. These scams could also be used for other valuable items: cars, collectibles, jewelry .....you name it.

[garyh]

How do you know it is only men doing this?

[CMSteve]

I'm still at a loss. So at what point did the scam kick in?

1. I would also be cautious of someone agreeing to pay the full price, if I didn't offer it at a fair price.

2. Assuming its a fair price, and I know the area, I may not need to see the unit as the property may be my only real want.

3. Is this because you may or may not want cash?

4. Proof of ownership should be a prerequisite.

5. Why would he want to pay for a copy of documents that you legally are required to provide?

BTW, please feel free to replace (he) with (she) for any of the above.

All kidding aside, did he ask for any private info, money or something?

Edited March 18, 2011 by CMSteve

[Crushdepth]

Asking for documentation before they've actually seen the property is weird.

[fatfather]

I'm still at a loss. So at what point did the scam kick in?

1. I would also be cautious of someone agreeing to pay the full price, if I didn't offer it at a fair price.

2. Assuming its a fair price, and I know the area, I may not need to see the unit as the property may be my only real want.

3. Is this because you may or may not want cash?

4. Proof of ownership should be a prerequisite.

5. Why would he want to pay for a copy of documents that you legally are required to provide?

BTW, please feel free to replace (he) with (she) for any of the above.

All kidding aside, did he ask for any private info, money or something?

..proof of ownership and copy of passport are no private info???? I'm surprised

[Phil Conners]

I think this is more of a real estate issue than a computer issue, so moving the topic.

I still don't see where the scam comes into it. Isn't it normal enough to ask for copy of passport and house papers to ensure you actually own the house you're trying to sell?

[CMSteve]

Exactly! As a serious buyer, you have to ask who is this person I am dealing with, do they actually own this property(could he be a scammer???), is there ownership documents, liens on the property, and taxes paid? How is it wrong to ask for this before moving forward on this?

I think this is more of a real estate issue than a computer issue, so moving the topic.

I still don't see where the scam comes into it. Isn't it normal enough to ask for copy of passport and house papers to ensure you actually own the house you're trying to sell?

[trogers]

I would not sell real properties online...

If buyer wants a copy of my title deed, I will give a photocopy on the buyer paying me a booking fee of at least Bt10,000 cash and sign a letter of intent agreeing to sign the main sales and purchase agreement within 2 weeks with payment of 10% deposit of the agreed property price. Failure of the buyer in signing the main sales and purchase agreement means his booking fee shall be forfeited.

Transfer of the property is normally within 30 days from the date of this main agreement, and if buyer fails to pay the balance to effect the title transfer, the deposit is forfeited.

[garyh]

I think this is more of a real estate issue than a computer issue, so moving the topic.

I still don't see where the scam comes into it. Isn't it normal enough to ask for copy of passport and house papers to ensure you actually own the house you're trying to sell?

It is related to selling stuff on the internet whether it is real estate, cars or what ever, it is not related to only real estate.

[dave111223]

Exactly! As a serious buyer, you have to ask who is this person I am dealing with, do they actually own this property(could he be a scammer???), is there ownership documents, liens on the property, and taxes paid? How is it wrong to ask for this before moving forward on this?

I think this is more of a real estate issue than a computer issue, so moving the topic.

I still don't see where the scam comes into it. Isn't it normal enough to ask for copy of passport and house papers to ensure you actually own the house you're trying to sell?

In my experience no Thai property seller would send (via email/fax?) their ID card (or passport) and Chanote without you first coming to look at the property or at least meet them in person.

Edited March 18, 2011 by dave111223

[CMSteve]

Its done quite often... Thai's are required to provide copies of both with just about everything legal thing that they do. Of course, they would first sign and write the reason for usage of the copies across the front first. People often fax copies or send them by proxy.

Look at it from the "Buyer's" point of view. He responds to an internet posting offering a property at a price that he's actually willing to pay. Upon contacting the "seller", everything seems to be great until he asks for proof as to the person he is dealing with and the ownership of the property. The seller agrees to fax a copy, only after he receives money from the "buyer"? To me, it sounds like "seller" is the scammer.

He's offering goods on the internet, for a price that doesn't need to be negotiated, and will provide more documentation only after a small deposit/processing fee.... sound familiar?

Brahmbergers:

I don't mean in any way that I feel your ad was to scam anyone. I only want to point out that the way this has been portrayed here, it could have just as easily scared off any prospective buyers.

Exactly! As a serious buyer, you have to ask who is this person I am dealing with, do they actually own this property(could he be a scammer???), is there ownership documents, liens on the property, and taxes paid? How is it wrong to ask for this before moving forward on this?

I think this is more of a real estate issue than a computer issue, so moving the topic.

I still don't see where the scam comes into it. Isn't it normal enough to ask for copy of passport and house papers to ensure you actually own the house you're trying to sell?

In my experience no Thai property seller would send (via email/fax?) their ID card (or passport) and Chanote without you first coming to look at the property or at least meet them in person.

Edited March 18, 2011 by CMSteve

[PattayaParent]

Scan the passport and obliterate the passport number and date of birth.

[xerostar]

This sounds similar to a scam that my son nearly fell for, but in this case involving a car he owned in Switzerland.

He had advertised the car on the internet for some time without any response.

Eventually he received an email offer to buy the car and a promise to pay any shipping costs.

My son agreed to the arrangement and soon after he received a bank cheque in the mail that covered the price of the car plus a generous amount to cover transport to an east european city address.

My son was tempted to take the car direct to the transport firm because it was taking up a valuable parking

space but he decided to bank the cheque first. A week later it turned out that the cheque was a forgery.

You can see the similarity when an owner is desperate to sell his property for any reason, he is ripe for the picking for any scam artist.

It's hard to believe how some people can be so gullible to let it happen, but evidently it's quite common.

Australian authorities report that hundreds of people per year are still falling victim to the old Nigerian scam

and losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process!

..

Edited March 18, 2011 by xerostar

[latelyo]

Here is one reply I got after sending more information of property.

I really appreciate the detailed information of the property and I am very much interested in buying this property to enable me relocate with my family. What is the lowest price of the property?

The reason I am buying the property is to relocate to your country with my wife & 2 daughters since I am retired, I have problems with my country Northern Ireland Government which prompted me to contact you for the purchase of your property to enable me relocate with my family. Also my investments & assets here are been tied up by the court and asset management firms which has made me to leave in fear in my country with my family, I can not determine the bright future of my family if continue leaving here with them, my enemies are fighting to nail me down but God will see me through since I am innocent of allegations leveled against me.

I am completely out of cash here to pay for the property through here but my wife deposited sum of ₤10.5 million inside a safety box and deposited it to a finance firm based in Malaysia with annex office in Spain which I want you to help me clear from the finance firm as my family friend while you deposit it in your bank account for the purchase of your property and other properties when I relocate. I will then pay for the property from the funds while the rest of the funds will be invest into other business or properties after settling with you. I will also request you to source for good school where my daughters we be register when we come.

I will appreciate it so much if you will sincerely help me buy your property and relocate to your country with my family, I hope the deed of the property is correct? Confirm to me your capability of handling this transaction so as to detail you more.

Thanks and best regard.

Mr.Bodell

[bifftastic]

Here is one reply I got after sending more information of property.

I really appreciate the detailed information of the property and I am very much interested in buying this property to enable me relocate with my family. What is the lowest price of the property?

The reason I am buying the property is to relocate to your country with my wife & 2 daughters since I am retired, I have problems with my country Northern Ireland Government which prompted me to contact you for the purchase of your property to enable me relocate with my family. Also my investments & assets here are been tied up by the court and asset management firms which has made me to leave in fear in my country with my family, I can not determine the bright future of my family if continue leaving here with them, my enemies are fighting to nail me down but God will see me through since I am innocent of allegations leveled against me.

I am completely out of cash here to pay for the property through here but my wife deposited sum of ₤10.5 million inside a safety box and deposited it to a finance firm based in Malaysia with annex office in Spain which I want you to help me clear from the finance firm as my family friend while you deposit it in your bank account for the purchase of your property and other properties when I relocate. I will then pay for the property from the funds while the rest of the funds will be invest into other business or properties after settling with you. I will also request you to source for good school where my daughters we be register when we come.

I will appreciate it so much if you will sincerely help me buy your property and relocate to your country with my family, I hope the deed of the property is correct? Confirm to me your capability of handling this transaction so as to detail you more.

Thanks and best regard.

Mr.Bodell

that's so funny. You can even hear the Nigerian accent in the typing!

[dave111223]

Its done quite often... Thai's are required to provide copies of both with just about everything legal thing that they do. Of course, they would first sign and write the reason for usage of the copies across the front first. People often fax copies or send them by proxy.

To the Thai's i know sending a copy of your ID card to an unknown individual that they just got an email from is akin to sending them your credit card or pin number.

If you know can any Thai's who think otherwise please have them email me their ID cards and Chanotes and i'll pay them 1000Baht each.

[xerostar]

I WRITE TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE VERY KIND AND BY THE GRACE OF GOD

I NEED TO TRANSFER 50 MILLION DOLLARS TO YOUR ACCOUNT DUE TO THE

LOSS OF MY DEAR AUNTY WHO IS SISTER TO THE LATE PRESIDENT.

PLEASE SEND MY YOUR ID CARD SO THAT I CAN TRANSFER THE MUNEE TO YOU

SINCERELLLY YOURS

JINGO JUNGLEY SNR

[CMSteve]

You can't be serious????

No need to offer 1000B Just offer a job or apt for rent. They'll happily email/fax you a copy of both.

Its done quite often... Thai's are required to provide copies of both with just about everything legal thing that they do. Of course, they would first sign and write the reason for usage of the copies across the front first. People often fax copies or send them by proxy.

To the Thai's i know sending a copy of your ID card to an unknown individual that they just got an email from is akin to sending them your credit card or pin number.

If you know can any Thai's who think otherwise please have them email me their ID cards and Chanotes and i'll pay them 1000Baht each.

[dave111223]

You can't be serious????

No need to offer 1000B Just offer a job or apt for rent. They'll happily email/fax you a copy of both.

Job Offer: Soap Opera Reviewer

Job Description: Watch Thai soap operas and give a rating 1 to 5 stars per show

Salary: 250,000THB per month

Location: Work from home, we'll send the soap opera DVDs to you

Please email your ID Card and Chanote of property that you own to [email protected]

I should have no problem collecting a massive list of ID cards and Chanotes right?

[CMSteve]

I'm really not here to argue with you Dave, but if you don't believe me, feel free to post a realistic job posting on a thai site and take a look for yourself. Posting your response as you've done below gets nobody anywhere.

BTW, something realistic would be

Job Offer: Soap Opera Reviewer

Job Description: Watch Thai soap operas and give a rating 1 to 5 stars per show

Salary: 5,000THB per month

Location: Work from home, we'll send the soap opera DVDs to you

Please email your C.V., ID Card, and Chanote of property that you own to [email protected]

Have this translated and posted to sanook, cm108, or another similar site.

You're going to be surprised.

You can't be serious????

No need to offer 1000B Just offer a job or apt for rent. They'll happily email/fax you a copy of both.

Job Offer: Soap Opera Reviewer

Job Description: Watch Thai soap operas and give a rating 1 to 5 stars per show

Salary: 250,000THB per month

Location: Work from home, we'll send the soap opera DVDs to you

Please email your ID Card and Chanote of property that you own to [email protected]

I should have no problem collecting a massive list of ID cards and Chanotes right?

Edited March 19, 2011 by CMSteve

[brahmburgers]

Scan the passport and obliterate the passport number and date of birth.

From the OP: I did something similar: I took a photo of my passport ID page, then cropped the not-so-clear photo so the ID# was partial.

I made it v. clear to the purported buyer that because I'm a farang, I can't have my name on the chanod (title). I offered to let him contact the Thai person who's name is on the title. He wasn't interested.

Someone asked why I referred to the person as a 'he'. Reason: he had a man's name. Nelson Donald. Incidentally, my tech-savvy friend did a search on his email and found no problems. I then did a search on his name and found two hits on Linkedin. One was from Zambia. hmmmmmm.....

Interesting that the responses to this thread are pretty much divvied between thinking it might be a real offer, and those who think, as I do, that the guy was scamming, ....probably ID theft.

I can't be 100% sure he was scamming. People can get adept at these sorts of things, so it's sometimes tricky to tell who for real and who's a rip off. When I asked him for his ID, he didn't respond. As for the Bt.1,000, I have no regrets for insisting on that before sending him my personal info. If he's cruising to purchase a multi-thousand dollar item, then he can come up with $30 to show his sincerity.

Edited March 20, 2011 by brahmburgers