Advice Of Buying Condo In Pattaya

[dmax]

i am thinking about buying 2 condo,s in pattaya from [email protected]. they are building now ( soi nam keing just off soi bukaew near r-con hotel ) and i am getting a 20% discount if i pay in full when complete ( completed by september ) obviously i need to pay a deposit soon to secure. if i do not pay in full when completed then i can pay in 6 monthly installments untill payment is completed and i pay this by swift transfer if i am back in uk.

i want to know what the pitfalls are of buying condo,s and the law etc . this company has allready lots of condos in thailand and they seem a reputable company. the 2 condos will bring in a rental of around 15,000 baht each month , out of that i pay a rental company 10% and a maintanance company 20 baht per square metre per month.

i have made some very bad investments before so im not jumping in here hence this post, i cant afford to make anymore bad decisions . i want some investment for my wife and daughter and in my mind the rental market in soi bukaew should be busy enough plus i have lots of friends who come and they would rent also short term or long term but obviously im not relying on that .

also where else should i look to buy a condo and from what company ? wongamat is out of the question , i was going to invest 4 years ago in nova mirage but that place is very quiet now.

thanks in advance

[Delight]

I think that you need to supply more info

1) The name of the Developer-You only supplied an e-mail address

2) The size of these condos

3) Is the 15000 baht/ month for each condo -or both

4) The maintenance fee that you quote is ok for high rise -say 24 storey's.

A bit low for small condo block. Unless there is no pool and no gardens and no security and no on -site manager. I live in a small condo and pay 40.

5) No reference of a sinking fund(in case you are not aware this fund is to cater for long term maintenance issues.)

6) What is the asking price?

Soi Bua Khao (It means White Lotus Street) has extremes of high /low season. I lived there for 18 months, whilst my new condo was being built ,and witnessed it (and that was in the good old days -2005/6). if you are seeking long term tenants , those with money do not live on that street. That said

locations like Diana Estate and Sutus Court ( both on SBK) which have large and quiet recreational areas, attract all year- rounders.I stayed for about a year at Sutus Court. I would suggest that they, and others like them ,are your competitors .

Many rooms are un -occupied during low season. British Summer Time and Pattaya low season occur at the same time(my view)

Trust that this helps

[Darrel]

The building is Life @ Siam (or Life at Siam) and it isnt an email address. Oddly I cant find any online reference to either the developer or the building's own website, only some links to real estate agents who deal with it. Strange as most Pattaya developers go completely overboard on their websites.

I will walk up there and have a look in person tomorrow.

[Darrel]

(and that was in the good old days -2005/6).

You must be one of the newer fellahs.

The good old days were pre-1990.

[dmax]

the condo,s are 38 sqm each, the price is 3.25 mill for both after discount. there will be a pool and the condos are on corner of building overlooking pool 3rd floor. as i say im doing my homework here and wont be rushing into things . even if they were rented all season im only getting around 25000 baht per mth on both condos after fees are taken out so im asking are there any other developments with more potential than this ?

thanks for your replies so far

[ThaiBob]

dmax, I'm glad you're doing your homework. Check out the history of the developer thoroughly.

I had two friends a few years back who bought Bangkok condos for big cash discounts. One developer never did an EIR or registered the deeds with Land Office and the other failed to complete the project as per the contract. One friend sued and after a long (and expensive) court battle got his money back (with interest). I also had another friend who purchased at City Gardens but still has not found a tenant.

[Delight]

(and that was in the good old days -2005/6).

You must be one of the newer fellahs.

The good old days were pre-1990.

I think that you are going off-topic

Soi Bua Khao was a dirt track pre -1990

Was it fun then -living on dirt track?

Just for fun I attach a map of Pattaya -early eighties

Now I am going off topic

[Delight]

the condo,s are 38 sqm each, the price is 3.25 mill for both after discount. there will be a pool and the condos are on corner of building overlooking pool 3rd floor. as i say im doing my homework here and wont be rushing into things . even if they were rented all season im only getting around 25000 baht per month on both condos after fees are taken out so im asking are there any other developments with more potential than this ?

thanks for your replies so far

What seems to be 'in ' at the moment are major developments on Pratamnak Hill/Cosy Beach area

Nova are well on the way with 'The Cliff'(about 400+ rooms) and they now have a new development 'The Legend'(even bigger) This latest is still a green field site

Also we have 'The View ' The Cosy Beach View ' The Peak Towers '-2 buildings 'The Emerald Palace' 'The Elegance' All these developments are 25 plus storeys

What seems to be certain is that all the developers are very professional.

There is serious money involved.

The area in general is considered prime building land.The land prices have rocketed-in spite of the recession

They must be taking along term view. They know something that I do not.

If I was to buy there -I would have to do the same.

I have not figured out the buying motives of the purchasers of these new condos

Suspect they have bought at a discount to sell later.

The common feature of most of these condos are they are mostly small rooms-studios.

Ultimately they will be holiday lets for Russians-maybe.

I further suspect that the British/Americans /Europeans would not wish to stay there.

The language will be Russian . The Russians are no respecters of quiet and relaxed evenings.

Cosy Beach is now referred to as Russia Town.

They seem to be operate on small budgets.They buy their booze from 7-11's -eat at the noodle shops

and party all night in their rooms

Suspect that the foregoing might be of little use to you-all the.same check it out

[ESB7]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest. Bukao would be OK but 15K a month for 38sqm sounds too much, and not forgetting low periods etc. DMAX also, if you are buying now with funds currently in the UK, XE is 48.5 at present, wait 6 months and that could be up to 55 or more. If you cant afford anymore mistakes, maybe consider leaving funds in the UK...dont forget use your tax allowance and ISA allowance, also kids accounts are tax free

[PattayaParent]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest. Bukao would be OK but 15K a month for 38sqm sounds too much, and not forgetting low periods etc. DMAX also, if you are buying now with funds currently in the UK, XE is 48.5 at present, wait 6 months and that could be up to 55 or more. If you cant afford anymore mistakes, maybe consider leaving funds in the UK...dont forget use your tax allowance and ISA allowance, also kids accounts are tax free

And don't forget that you can only benefit from this if you are a UK resident.

[Delight]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest. Bukao would be OK but 15K a month for 38sqm sounds too much, and not forgetting low periods etc. DMAX also, if you are buying now with funds currently in the UK, XE is 48.5 at present, wait 6 months and that could be up to 55 or more. If you cant afford anymore mistakes, maybe consider leaving funds in the UK...dont forget use your tax allowance and ISA allowance, also kids accounts are tax free

Sorry to go off topic a bit

The 55 baht in 6 months time is music to my ears.

Could it be that you know something that mere mortals like me do not?

Love to hear your rationale

[Darrel]

I think that you are going off-topic

Soi Bua Khao was a dirt track pre -1990

It was indeed. I remember Pattaya well, back when there was Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, and that was it!

Obviously it wasnt the good old days for Buakow but it was the good old days for the whole town.

[Darrel]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest.

I would say it is the place to avoid. It is destined to become a concrete jungle with buildings going up on every bit of green land. There is no proper public transport: you have to take your chances with the motorbike taxi mafia, or a chartered bahtbus, or walk for miles. Anyone buying there can count on daily pile-driving for the next 10 years and the probable loss of any view they may have once had of the sea or a green leaf. And quite how "cosy" the beach will be when it has a million Russians on it, I dont know.

[Delight]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest.

I would say it is the place to avoid. It is destined to become a concrete jungle with buildings going up on every bit of green land. There is no proper public transport: you have to take your chances with the motorbike taxi mafia, or a chartered bahtbus, or walk for miles. Anyone buying there can count on daily pile-driving for the next 10 years and the probable loss of any view they may have once had of the sea or a green leaf. And quite how "cosy" the beach will be when it has a million Russians on it, I dont know.

Not too sure about the 10 year bit,but that that aside I concur with your comments

Of course ,Dmax , in only interested in an investment opportunity,he does not plan to live there. If your 'a million Russians on the beach' prediction is only 10% correct -then it could be a very good place to invest.

As with all business decisions the first stage is to understand the market-ie the likely buying motives of potential customers.

Late 2004 Cosy beach had no Russians -now they are ubiquitous in that area.

Why -Russians are getting richer ,but have few opportunities to arrive in a destination of choice and easily obtain a Visa.

I understand that they can enter Egypt ,but in the main the Ruskies do not dig pyramids and all of Europe plus USA plus Australia etc etc.. do not offer a 'just walk in 'service to Russian tourists

Destination of choice -Thailand. They buy package holidays.

The growth since 2004 has been exponential.

I Suggest that Dmax visits the Tourist Authority of Thailand. They have an office on Pratamnak Hill.

A message to Dmax

I would be very suspicious of the 20 Baht /meter service charge and a lack of a Sinking fund that you refer to on the SBK

I would regard it as a trap

.

Ultimately the co -owners (and the developer for unsold units )are responsible for the entire maintenance. If the actual cost is higher than the income generated from fees ,then the shortfall has to be found by the co-owners etc.This is the law.

Nova on Prratamnak /Cosy beach charge 30 baht plus 300 baht /meter up front sinking fund charge.That ,in my opinion,reflects true costs

When it comes to property only the rich can afford to buy cheap!

Good Luck

[ianbroad]

I sepnt the last 2 weeks looking at condos in pattaya.

I went to many agents and saw new and existing developments.. off plan etc.

I havent heared of life at siam are you sure its legit?

Pattaya real estate agents are dicks, no better than timeshare agents and would have you believe that people are queuing up to get their names down on paper to buy these off plan condos and the prices are going up and up.

Well its like a bubble.. theres a lot of sales going on.. but walk around at night.. see the existing developments and see how many lights are on. Most are EMPTY.

Its a bubble.

DONT BUY OFF PLAN. There are heaps of developments around you can find perfectly good condos CHEAPER now that they are asking off plan.. and they are already built!!!! There are many people trying to get out of the market. IT IS A BUYERS MARKET.

[Shipwreck]

DONT BUY OFF PLAN. There are heaps of developments around you can find perfectly good condos CHEAPER now that they are asking off plan.. and they are already built!!!! There are many people trying to get out of the market. IT IS A BUYERS MARKET.

I have to agree. If you are paying cash you are probably easier off finding a better deal buying off of someone who wanted to 'flip' their condo than buying off plan.

Lots and lots of people buy to resell...then realize everyone else is doing the same...

[NanLaew]

I think that you are going off-topic

Soi Bua Khao was a dirt track pre -1990

It was indeed. I remember Pattaya well, back when there was Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, and that was it!

Obviously it wasnt the good old days for Buakow but it was the good old days for the whole town.

Way off topic. It was awesome! Great map too Delight. I lived on Soi Jirapon which was between Bua Khao (paved) and the dirt track that eventually became Sai Sahm.... way out in the boonies with water buffalo grazing opposite.

Dmax. Buy gold... lot's of it. And wait.

Or if it must be land, get your wife into thinking up country, rubber trees. Bugger the idea of buying 2 airconditioned boxes in a cesspit.

[trogers]

Only if posters in this section of the forum care to read posts of others do they learn what course of actions need careful considerations.

It is an irony that on this same page we have a poster eager to buy off plan and another poster complains that some condo units of his building are being rented out on very short terms (days?) and disrupting the lives of the long term residents. What's the relationship? If the developer cannot sell a sizable number of units, he may decide to rent them out on whatever terms he can gain an income.

I have avoid buying condo units off plan, or have recently been completed for this very reason. I do not know the kind of social environment the development will have. Development that has been completed for at least 5 years would have already formed a visible social environment to make judgement.

[Jebhead]

Well its like a bubble.. theres a lot of sales going on.. but walk around at night.. see the existing developments and see how many lights are on. Most are EMPTY.

You'd be surprised how many units are owned by Thai's who use them for holiday homes maybe 3 or 4 times a year, hence no lights..... eg Songkran / New year / mid term etc

JH

[johnnyk]

I wouldn't inflate the rent potential. If combined rents are 25K/month then I would suggest multiply by 12 then take 60% of that as occupancy rate. Real monthly return then is more like 15K. I wouldn't do it but its your money.

[ESB7]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest. Bukao would be OK but 15K a month for 38sqm sounds too much, and not forgetting low periods etc. DMAX also, if you are buying now with funds currently in the UK, XE is 48.5 at present, wait 6 months and that could be up to 55 or more. If you cant afford anymore mistakes, maybe consider leaving funds in the UK...dont forget use your tax allowance and ISA allowance, also kids accounts are tax free

And don't forget that you can only benefit from this if you are a UK resident.

So I suppose all the expats only bank with SCB,Kasikorn etc and none have a Nationwide,HSBC,Lloyds account in the UK. DMAX already has funds in the UK as he stated, so clearly he can take advantage of tax wrappers etc..albeit not legal

[PattayaParent]

Pratumnak is definatly the place to invest. Bukao would be OK but 15K a month for 38sqm sounds too much, and not forgetting low periods etc. DMAX also, if you are buying now with funds currently in the UK, XE is 48.5 at present, wait 6 months and that could be up to 55 or more. If you cant afford anymore mistakes, maybe consider leaving funds in the UK...dont forget use your tax allowance and ISA allowance, also kids accounts are tax free

And don't forget that you can only benefit from this if you are a UK resident.

So I suppose all the expats only bank with SCB,Kasikorn etc and none have a Nationwide,HSBC,Lloyds account in the UK. DMAX already has funds in the UK as he stated, so clearly he can take advantage of tax wrappers etc..albeit not legal

And therein lies the major problem.

[champken]

As has been said, i would forget all about investing in that area, with no disrespect intended that area caters for cheap charlies who in the main are looking for cheaper accommodation and nothing wrong with that, the growth market here is without doubt with the Russian tourists who almost certainly would not be looking to stay around there, if there is such a thing as a good investment here at the moment then in my opinion it would be in as near to ocean front as possible established well run condo probably in the jomtien area as the Ruskies favour it there

[johnnyk]

I would only rent for longer-term visitors or expats. Short-term renters, i.e. vacationers, stay 1 or 2 weeks and then you have to start again with new renters. People have different habits and attitudes, some are gentle and respectful with your property others are <deleted> who think, "I'm paying I can do what I want." Longer-term renters are more apt to treat the place as a home rather than a crash pad.

A machine with many operators always wears out faster than one with very few operators. Which used car would you prefer - the one with 1 or 2 owners or the one that has had 10 owners?

[dmax]

thanks guys,

going to invest in something else like gold. have heard too many horror stories about buying condos so i will take the advice given

[ESB7]

thanks guys,

going to invest in something else like gold. have heard too many horror stories about buying condos so i will take the advice given

But gold is at an alltime premium now???........keep it in Sterling and wait for the rate to increase.....it wont be long.....no wonder you made mistakes befor, buy low sell high...dont buy high and have to sell low....

[Darrel]

Gold is about as viable as Pattaya condos. They are both items that are bought and sold at prices that bear little or no relation to their intrinsic worth, with prices that go up and down with every change of the wind.

As for "investing" in something that people with no brain wear around their necks for show, this seems to be totally daft. Why not invest in plastic beads too?

One hell of a good investment, that one. It's nearly worth what it was 30 years ago.

[JohnnyMoo]

The Development belongs RATANAKORN Properties and head office is on Pattaya Tai (South Pattaya Road toward BIGs C) Make sure the agreement is in writing don't listen to verbal promises and makes sure you ask for all the hidden costs. Also beware of clause 13

The building is Life @ Siam (or Life at Siam) and it isnt an email address. Oddly I cant find any online reference to either the developer or the building's own website, only some links to real estate agents who deal with it. Strange as most Pattaya developers go completely overboard on their websites.

I will walk up there and have a look in person tomorrow.

[thewhites1212]

The old saying if you do it right Bricks and Mortar are always your safest bet.

Try www.thailandparadisehomes.com which its long term goal to be a formative/unbiased leading real estate agency in Thailand, They are also associated with Colliers International for Pattaya.

Hope that helps

[Soboringtochooseaname]

Isn't it stupid to buy a condo by the sea without see view ?

And buying a condo in a low rise building with all the noise and pollution ? Or maybe you would like to have a new builing coming in front of your window soon ?

So if you are smart don't buy this and buy a View Talay condo !

VT 1 and 2 if you don't want to spend a lot (best view is VT1), VT 3,4,5,6,7, or 8 if you have more to spend.

But of course many will tell you the usual BS about new properties, listent to them if you like...