How Is My Plan?

[pilgrim2505]

I am in the forces - I intend to retire when I’m early forties so I have about eight years left before I move to Thailand with the wife and X2 kids.

I am halfway through a humanities degree with a specialism in RE and Philosophy (OU). I am looking at doing a short TEFL course here in the UK in-between my units, on completion of that I will do a distance PGCE and concurrently I have taken on some volunteer teaching / observations at a local secondary school. By UK standards I will have QTS in the UK when I am done qualifying.

My question is what are my chances of securing good quality work in Thailand and what can I do at this stage to secure the higher end positions?

Is there preferences for BA Ed degrees, is there a requirement to do in country TEFL and how are ex soldiers perceived in education in Thailand?

[Yuu_CM]

You want to know how things will be re teaching in Thailand in eight years time?

Two weeks can be a life time here, rules change so often. Who knows what it will be in eight years.

Get as many qualifications as possible and you should be okay. Age may be a problem though as more and more schools are adding the dreaded "under 45" tag to their ads. That's mainly image fixated private schools though, so get qualified and aim for public schools.

Honestly though, in eight years time it may be open season with 90% of jobs given to Phillipinos to save money or it may be you need a degree in education specifically. This is Thailand. Who knows what will happpen!

[BoonToong]

Your plan sounds good but I think you should get some feedback from other people who have done full-time teaching jobs here.

It can be soul-destroying and demoralising.

Come on those who have, what are your good and bad experiences?

[aridion]

I didn't think that you can get QTS with a distance PGCE.

[pilgrim2505]

I didn't think that you can get QTS with a distance PGCE.

That's funny mate, why in the world would anyone do one? look at my next post, posting is not my strong point sorry.

Edited March 22, 2011 by pilgrim2505

[pilgrim2505]

I didn't think that you can get QTS with a distance PGCE.

That's funny mate, why in the world would anyone do one?

look at this:

Course description

This course is offered on a modular basis; the course equips students with the skills of subject specialist teaching; allows students to gain an understanding of teachers professional knowledge including the application of information and communications technology; the course leads to Qualified Teacher Status (QTS), subject to satisfactory performance in skills tests

Read more: http://www.postgraduatesearch.com/brunel-university/52294754/postgraduate-course.htm#ixzz1HLLSEjKK

[Jawnie]

If you have a BA in Education, you won't need a TEFL or equivalent. If you have some other technical or subject matter expertise, a TEFL will help a lot and you should plan to get one if no Education BA. You're eight years out from coming to Thailand so it's way too early to say what will happen then. To teach at a university, you'll need a masters degree for sure by then. Best piece of advice would be for you to specialize in a particular subject or field, keeping an eye on teaching it later.

[Richb2004v2]

I'm sure you have your reasons, but why not teach in the UK?

[jdinasia]

If you are planning on teaching anything other than English at an average school, your plan needs work. Switch to a BA(hons) in Education at the very least. Skip the TEFL in the UK (if you need one take it in Thailand.)

Personally I would recommend a Master's in Education with a bachelor's in English and some real experience teaching in the UK, then go for recruitment from a decent private international school while in the UK (for Thailand.)

There are real issues with trying to plan anything like this 8 years in advance, but the higher your degree status, the better your employment chances are. Thailand is now sending out 100's of qualified (note I didn't say GOOD!) Thai teachers overseas for PhD's.

[pilgrim2505]

I'm sure you have your reasons, but why not teach in the UK?

Good question, I think ultimately I want to live in Thailand as I am dissatisfied with life in the UK. Maybe more a question of why I don't want to teach or live in the UK and I could go on all day why I don't want to live here.

I will add that I am realistic about development of the teaching industry (ish), my ever increasing age but also, my kids might not want to move to Thailand when they are older so i might have to remain in the UK.

[pilgrim2505]

If you have a BA in Education, you won't need a TEFL or equivalent. If you have some other technical or subject matter expertise, a TEFL will help a lot and you should plan to get one if no Education BA. You're eight years out from coming to Thailand so it's way too early to say what will happen then. To teach at a university, you'll need a masters degree for sure by then. Best piece of advice would be for you to specialize in a particular subject or field, keeping an eye on teaching it later.

A consideration of mine is deciding if I choose to do a PGCE or a masters that 'kinda' threw that whole debate into the air again.

[pilgrim2505]

If you are planning on teaching anything other than English at an average school, your plan needs work. Switch to a BA(hons) in Education at the very least. Skip the TEFL in the UK (if you need one take it in Thailand.)

Personally I would recommend a Master's in Education with a bachelor's in English and some real experience teaching in the UK, then go for recruitment from a decent private international school while in the UK (for Thailand.)

There are real issues with trying to plan anything like this 8 years in advance, but the higher your degree status, the better your employment chances are. Thailand is now sending out 100's of qualified (note I didn't say GOOD!) Thai teachers overseas for PhD's.

I am happy to teach just English.

Ref TEFL in the UK, I get nearly £200 a year to spend on courses so was looking at doing that one year as a time filler but 'I hear ya.'

Not sure If I could switch to another degree and carry across what I have already done. I am not prepared to throw away all the time and money invested into the Qual I am working towards. (Not cheap)

I am realistic about the 8yr plan but nothing prepares a fail better than failing to prepare. I might sacrifice PGCE for a masters.

Thanks for your thoughts

[pilgrim2505]

If you have a BA in Education, you won't need a TEFL or equivalent. If you have some other technical or subject matter expertise, a TEFL will help a lot and you should plan to get one if no Education BA. You're eight years out from coming to Thailand so it's way too early to say what will happen then. To teach at a university, you'll need a masters degree for sure by then. Best piece of advice would be for you to specialize in a particular subject or field, keeping an eye on teaching it later.

Much call for RE teachers in Thailand?

[vont]

You want to know how things will be re teaching in Thailand in eight years time?

Two weeks can be a life time here, rules change so often. Who knows what it will be in eight years.

Get as many qualifications as possible and you should be okay. Age may be a problem though as more and more schools are adding the dreaded "under 45" tag to their ads. That's mainly image fixated private schools though, so get qualified and aim for public schools.

Honestly though, in eight years time it may be open season with 90% of jobs given to Phillipinos to save money or it may be you need a degree in education specifically. This is Thailand. Who knows what will happpen!

Not in our life time, that Thailand would provide 9 out of 10 English teaching job to solely Phillipinos.

I didn't say that did I?

[AyG]

The RE thing might make it more difficult for you to find a job in Thailand. Far too many experiences of Xtian loonies using the classroom as a platform to proselytise.

[Richb2004v2]

I'm sure you have your reasons, but why not teach in the UK?

Good question, I think ultimately I want to live in Thailand as I am dissatisfied with life in the UK. Maybe more a question of why I don't want to teach or live in the UK and I could go on all day why I don't want to live here.

I will add that I am realistic about development of the teaching industry (ish), my ever increasing age but also, my kids might not want to move to Thailand when they are older so i might have to remain in the UK.

I'm considering the exact opposite, a return to the Uk to possibly teach in the future. I'm also with the OU.

[Phatcharanan]

Some interesting comments.

Whilst your proactive attitude to the future is to be commended, the fact is (as other posters have pointed out) the goal posts in Thailand are constantly moving. It really is almost impossible to predict what will be required here in 8 years time.

I firmly believe that by that time, either a BEd, MEd or degree plus PGCE will be the minimum requirement.

Your course will lead to QTS as I note that attendance is also a requirement on your 'distance' PGCE. Subject to you passing the 'skills tests' of course.

No doubt you are aware that you only get one shot at that. Fail and you can't sit them again.

I don't think RE is going to be particularly useful over in SE Asia. Math and Science subjects are the way to go over here, if you intend teaching at Secondary or Tertiary level.

Anyway.........good luck in whatever you do. I myself was a squaddie before going into teaching. Never regretted it.

[Ijustwannateach]

With the way the qualification wind is currently blowing, simply having any master's degree is no longer enough by itself to guarantee any good teaching job. You want to have some kind of educational qualification mixed with some kind of subject experience- maths and sciences being most in demand. You might be able to swing your degree as a kind of social sciences thing, but if you were teaching in the public schools that would require you to learn quite a bit of Thai-related material with which you may have limited familiarity.

Either way, without prior full QTS and experience in your home country, forget getting the 'best' international school packages here. You need to look at the number of working years you have left and plan accordingly for what will make the most sense in your retirement.

[bhoydy]

It seems like you are planning well for the future. I don't know what to recommend for you personally as situations can change rapidly worldwide, not just in Thailand. I can't see the Religious Studies being much use, but perhaps you could focus more on Education if that's the line you want to take.

I was surprised to see that some people think that the entry qualifications for a teaching job here would increase. I think of some of the schools in my area, who are crying out for just a native speaker regardless of qualifications which they can't even get.

Obviously for the best jobs here, you want the best qualifications, but i think these schools are far outnumbered by your average government school with an average English Program.

Good Luck

[Phatcharanan]

I was surprised to see that some people think that the entry qualifications for a teaching job here would increase. I think of some of the schools in my area, who are crying out for just a native speaker regardless of qualifications which they can't even get.

Not sure why you would be surprised. The board is full of information regarding the direction that the TCT is taking.

[pilgrim2505]

It seems like you are planning well for the future. I don't know what to recommend for you personally as situations can change rapidly worldwide, not just in Thailand. I can't see the Religious Studies being much use, but perhaps you could focus more on Education if that's the line you want to take.

I was surprised to see that some people think that the entry qualifications for a teaching job here would increase. I think of some of the schools in my area, who are crying out for just a native speaker regardless of qualifications which they can't even get.

Obviously for the best jobs here, you want the best qualifications, but i think these schools are far outnumbered by your average government school with an average English Program.

Good Luck

I would have to agree, theres a lot of attractive work elsewhere at far more attractive salaries. I am pretty confident that I could get some work especially if I aim in the correct place. More money doesn't mean a better job.

[aridion]

Good luck with your pursuit. I got a plac eon a PGCE in England starting September. I also got an offer for a Masters in education, however the masters will not lead to QTS. So PGCE it is then.

[newbie001]

I think that overall your plan is doable but there are some serious things that you haven't considered and others haven't mentioned. You are married with 2 kids. There is no absolutely no way that you will be able to support your entire family on a first year teacher's salary. You will not get any high paying international school jobs without at least 1-2 years full time experience in your country. You will only make 30-40,000 baht and if you get a masters you will get paid less at university than you will in grade schools. It will take at least a few years working full time here before you are getting the higher 60-80K Baht jobs, if you ever do get them. They are scarce and there are a lot of overly qualified people working for less.

The MOE of education requires a few things in order for you to get your teacher's license. 1. If you have a license from your country, 2. degree in education, 3. PGCE or in the states passing the Praxis 1+2.

So with your PGCE you will get the teacher's license, but as stated before the requirements might change in a few years. FYI you will need a totaly clean criminal background check too. No charges of any sort. That will get stricter in the future. Not more laxed.

If your wife isn't going to work as a teacher also and is to stay at home, there is no way that you will send your kids to school and have a good life. Average cost of low end EP or International schools is about 8,000 baht a month per kid (you have 2, so there is half your salary right there. Thailand doesn't allow home school so that is not a legal option. If you work at a school you will get half tuition so that helps some, but it is still very hard to make any kind of middle class life style that you would be accustomed to on a teacher's salary for a family of 4.

As for degree, your degree is worthless for its subject matter. You can transfer to a more applicable field and most universities accept up to 2 years of courses so you wouldn't lose too much. Education is the field that you would need if you wanted to work for elementary age students. A science background + PGCE would allow you to get some good teaching jobs for science in EP programs or low end International schools once you get some experience.

If you want to work at a university, get a masters in Linguistics (easiest subject matter) or English literature. Education degrees PGCE and the like won't impress any university.

Good luck, but don't give up anything back in the UK to come here. For a year or two it isn't bad but to make a life of it is quite hard for most. I know a lot of guys in their late 50's early sixties that have been here for 10-20 years and there are living of nothing and have no options for better employment and nothing to retire on. Your military pension will help some.

FYI, as long as you aren't gung ho military your background won't be an issue, but I wouldn't showcase it on my resume. Some employers might feel that you are going to be to strict or rigid. Some schools that I know of have had some problems with ex military in the past. Some have had good experiences. Depends I guess if you are a grunt or an officer.

[tonititan]

Personally I would recommend a Master's in Education with a bachelor's in English and some real experience teaching in the UK, then go for recruitment from a decent private international school while in the UK (for Thailand.)

Personally, I have to disagree. If the OP was in his early 20s or 30s, I would agree with your recommendation. But, if the OP is in his early 40s and has 8 years til moving, that would likely make him 50+ by the time he arrives. Yes, he could technically still get hired by an international school, but they typically expect a 50 year old to come in with a lot of experience. My friends who are 50+ or 55+ have told me that it's much harder to get hired by an international school. Some schools refuse to hire anyone over 50, especially a teacher who is practically brand new. And many international schools in BKK (or elsewhere) have a mandatory retirement age - maybe around 60 or 62.

I agree with ijustwannateach's recommendation to look at what makes the most sense for your retirement. If you go for an English teaching job, you'll make significantly less money each month, but you'll have more options and will probably be able to work more years. Yeah, you could get a teaching degree, go for an international school job, and save up during your ~10 years of work. The risk you take is that you're spending a LOT of money to get that Master's in Education, and if your heart is set on Thailand, you might not even be able to find a job at an international school. You might end up teaching English anyway.

You definitely have a lot to think about. Good luck!

[Phatcharanan]

make him 50+ by the time he arrives. My friends who are 50+ or 55+ have told me that it's much harder to get hired by an international school. Some schools refuse to hire anyone over 50, especially a teacher who is practically brand new. And many international schools in BKK (or elsewhere) have a mandatory retirement age - maybe around 60 or 62.

I suspect that the OP is probably mid-late 30's.

I have worked at 3 of the top internationals in Bangkok and have yet to hear of a 'mandatory retirement age' for ex-pat teachers. Care to enlighten?

[tonititan]

I suspect that the OP is probably mid-late 30's.

I have worked at 3 of the top internationals in Bangkok and have yet to hear of a 'mandatory retirement age' for ex-pat teachers. Care to enlighten?

You're right....I was in a hurry and misread his opening statement. I thought he said he was in his early 40s and would move in 8 years. So, I take back some of what I said...it would be more practical for him to go the international school route that I originally thought.

I have also worked at two international schools in BKK, both of which had mandatory retirement age. We were told that it has something to do with Thai regulations. I would have to do some research to find the exact information and its source. If you dig around on some of the recruitment websites, you can see that some schools list a retirement age. I just peeked quickly on Search, and NIST lists a retirement age of 60. Patana's posting says that the oldest age a person can be employed and issued a work permit is 60. RIS's post says 62. ELC says 59. I am not claiming to know the rationale or whether there is truly a legal basis, but I do know, based on the schools I've worked at, that at least some of the better international schools do have upper age limits for employees.

[pilgrim2505]

Good luck with your pursuit. I got a plac eon a PGCE in England starting September. I also got an offer for a Masters in education, however the masters will not lead to QTS. So PGCE it is then.

Good luck with that mate.

[pilgrim2505]

I think that overall your plan is doable but there are some serious things that you haven't considered and others haven't mentioned. You are married with 2 kids. There is no absolutely no way that you will be able to support your entire family on a first year teacher's salary. You will not get any high paying international school jobs without at least 1-2 years full time experience in your country. You will only make 30-40,000 baht and if you get a masters you will get paid less at university than you will in grade schools. It will take at least a few years working full time here before you are getting the higher 60-80K Baht jobs, if you ever do get them. They are scarce and there are a lot of overly qualified people working for less.

The MOE of education requires a few things in order for you to get your teacher's license. 1. If you have a license from your country, 2. degree in education, 3. PGCE or in the states passing the Praxis 1+2.

So with your PGCE you will get the teacher's license, but as stated before the requirements might change in a few years. FYI you will need a totaly clean criminal background check too. No charges of any sort. That will get stricter in the future. Not more laxed.

If your wife isn't going to work as a teacher also and is to stay at home, there is no way that you will send your kids to school and have a good life. Average cost of low end EP or International schools is about 8,000 baht a month per kid (you have 2, so there is half your salary right there. Thailand doesn't allow home school so that is not a legal option. If you work at a school you will get half tuition so that helps some, but it is still very hard to make any kind of middle class life style that you would be accustomed to on a teacher's salary for a family of 4.

As for degree, your degree is worthless for its subject matter. You can transfer to a more applicable field and most universities accept up to 2 years of courses so you wouldn't lose too much. Education is the field that you would need if you wanted to work for elementary age students. A science background + PGCE would allow you to get some good teaching jobs for science in EP programs or low end International schools once you get some experience.

FYI, as long as you aren't gung ho military your background won't be an issue, but I wouldn't showcase it on my resume. Some employers might feel that you are going to be to strict or rigid. Some schools that I know of have had some problems with ex military in the past. Some have had good experiences. Depends I guess if you are a grunt or an officer.

With the greatest of respect, I plan this meticulously into the future then negate the fact I won’t have sufficient funds to support my family – ☺ That’s one bold assumption, extremely far of the mark but I appreciate your concern.

I wont go as far as to give you a financial breakdown but I wont need to work by the time I arrive. I already own a 3-bedroom house outright, I will get a payout from the forces of about 40k and I will have a monthly income of between £800 and £1000 PM. I want to work so I don’t sit around drinking whiskey all day.

There was some beautiful information in the middle and it is being addressed and for that I am extremely grateful. I think Education is the way forward but I will have to look into how it maps across to working in the UK.

I will make it clear - I want to teach English at its basic level not have the highest paid job in SE Asia. I understand that at this time in our history there have NEVER been this many people holding degrees, that said primary and secondary kids still learn subject matter at there relevant level not uni level and if Thailand feels I wont be qualified enough then I wont teach there.

Oh the Grunt / Officer bit was charming newbie001 lol… FYI Grunt and I am not about to make excuses for the last 20 years of my life in uniform now am I. Did you know in the UK it's being actively encouraged for soldiers to transition into teaching.

[pilgrim2505]

I suspect that the OP is probably mid-late 30's.

I have worked at 3 of the top internationals in Bangkok and have yet to hear of a 'mandatory retirement age' for ex-pat teachers. Care to enlighten?

32 and 3 months and counting :jap:

[pilgrim2505]

I wonder what response I would have got if I just posted:

“I have a degree, PGCE and some teaching experience - can I teach some illiterate kids how 'to do' English in the jungle for a few quid or should I not bother?"