Obama releases long form birth certificate to end debate

[jazzbo]

As provided for on the PROPOSED DS-5513 Form-from-Hell that may be requested of SOME applicants:

I declare under penalty of perjury that all responses contained in this document are true and correct, to the best of my knowledge.I certify that the above statement is true.

Providing the information requested on this form, including your social security number, is voluntary, but failure to provide the information requested may result in processing delays or the denial of your U.S. passport application

Edited April 28, 2011 by jazzbo

[chuckd]

Why does it matter where you are born as long as you're a citizen. Imagine someone is on holiday and happens to give birth, suddenly this child, who otherwise is no different than his sibling born a year earlier or later within the borders, isn't as much of an American?

US Constitution, Article II, Section 1.

'No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.'

I am no birther and have always believed he was born in Hawaii. However, ever since the issue of his birth was brought up by the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008, he has had ample time to defuse it with the action he took today. Why he chose to fight it this long is a mystery to me.

I am more curious as to why he has not released his college records and previous medical history.

He is the President of the US and has promised transparency in his administration. He is the greatest mystery to ever hold the office and seems intent on retaining that mystery.

PS: Mr. geriatrickid: In response to your post about submitting school records.

Over the course of my working career I have interviewed and hired hundreds of US citizens for overseas work. During this hiring process I have requested and received college transcripts from virtually all of them. If they refused to do so, their application simply was placed in file 13 and they were so informed. Applicants for classified positions in Saudi Arabia must submit certified copies of their diplomas and transcripts to the Saudi Arabian Embassy in order to obtain work visas.

Bush, Gore and Kerry all released their college records. What makes this guy think he should be an exception?

The difference is that you are hiring a person. Obama is not hired, he is elected. I agree totally with Geriatrikid. What's next, do you want to go way back to see if there is a report of him picking his nose whilst in preschool?

This is all just rubbish to try and dig up dirt on him. He was elected and sworn in, just move on to more important things.

Holding an elective office is even more reason why ANY candidate should be upfront about their qualifications, or lack of same.

I couldn't care less whether he picked his nose or snot in either pre-school or the Oval Office bathroom and it is hardly germane to the issue. Personally I see all the nose pickers I care to in LOS so I certainly hope he doesn't do the dastardly deed, at least in public.

If you aren't at least a little curious how he applied himself while at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard Law, then that is your choice. It just doesn't happen to be mine.

[Jingthing]

Let's break down the facts on Trump. He's a big liar! Obama's diss calling him a carnival barker ... perfect!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/donald-trump-in-new-hampshire-amid-birther-madness/2011/04/27/AFrjfEzE_blog.html

The Pinocchio Test

Trump continues his pattern of simply making things up. Sometimes it is hard to find where the thread of truth might even begin.

As far as his school records, that would be more relevant for a non-incumbent. Voters now have Obama's presidential record to consider. School records are more of a character type issue. I hope voters have some indication of his character by now, the pros and cons. Indeed, many of the snipers at Obama are motivated by racism, and will never be satisfied by any new release of information. I think they won't vote for Obama, and didn't before ...

Edited April 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[midas]

Let's break down the facts on Trump. He's a big liar! Obama's diss calling him a carnival barker ... perfect!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/donald-trump-in-new-hampshire-amid-birther-madness/2011/04/27/AFrjfEzE_blog.html

The Pinocchio Test

Trump continues his pattern of simply making things up. Sometimes it is hard to find where the thread of truth might even begin.

As far as his school records, that would be more relevant for a non-incumbent. Voters now have Obama's presidential record to consider. School records are more of a character type issue. I hope voters have some indication of his character by now, the pros and cons. Indeed, many of the snipers at Obama are motivated by racism, and will never be satisfied by any new release of information. I think they won't vote for Obama, and didn't before ...

but that is only Four Pinocchios ?

Look at the Obama list ..........sheesh !

http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies

[koheesti]

If you aren't at least a little curious how he applied himself while at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard Law, then that is your choice. It just doesn't happen to be mine.

Apparently in one of Obama's memoirs that was written before he was elected he said he wasn't a good student. Nor was he a legacy student like Bush who came from a wealthy and connected family. Yet Obama still managed to get into Columbia and Harvard.

[Huey]

I am not one to pull out the race card willy-nilly, but I have read several articles which contend that race is at least a factor in the legs this issue has had. And I tend to agree with those statements.

John McCain had the issue raised as he was born on a military base in the Panama Canal Zone, but once the issue was resolved (and the Senate confirmed his eligibility to run) it became a non-issue. With Obama, the issue just won't be dropped, and some people still insist that he is a foreigner or a "secret" Muslim. (Why the Muslim issue, I am not sure as there is no prohibition for a Muslim to be president.)

If Obama was a white "Bart Oberman," then I don't think this would have ever been an issue.

And by the way the sky on a clear day is blue.

It's funny how something so obvious seems to get this air of denial about it. Who could honestly argue that race is not a issue in the US? There are still a ton of ignorant bigots in the US, who, for what ever reason, don't want to come directly out of the closet and admit the real reason for their angst. So they come up with all kinds of nonsensical time wasting rubbish like this. And all it dose is draw attention away from meaningful issues like our total lack of Health Care, the economy, or what are the American people getting out of all these wars other than bagged up soldiures and a falling $?

Damm focus already !

[jayboy]

I'm sure that Donald Trump will assist you and like minded geniuses in your quest for the truth about Obama's academic record although to educated foreigners he and Bill Clinton are the most intellectually gifted US presidents in living memory.

On the subject of Trump I have to admit to sharing Hugo Rifkind's (The Times) thought below:

"Personally, I'd like to see a certificate that proves Donald Trump grew his own hair and didn't scrape it up off the floor of a dog boutique."

Edited April 29, 2011 by metisdead
Removed previously deleted posts.

[powderpuff]

Will any of the people that accused President Obama of being a "foreigner" apologize?

Will any of these "birthers" admit that they were wrong, or is it just considered acceptable to make unsubstantiated and false allegations?

I note that several leading Republicans ( e.g. Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus) had urged the party not to continue down the road of maliciousness, but they were dismissed by people like Limbaugh, Palin, Trump and Beck at th height of the delusional accusations. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

On the contrary it is Obama who should apologize. But this was too good a distraction. A distraction from his horrible job performance. The country is hurting but the President is busy playing golf.

It's not clear on whose authority this was belatedly released. But now it's a full court press to raise a billion dollars for his re-election campaign. More on that later. But for now things like Royal Weddings provide a distraction from his lack of leadership.

[Jingthing]

If you aren't at least a little curious how he applied himself while at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard Law, then that is your choice. It just doesn't happen to be mine.

Apparently in one of Obama's memoirs that was written before he was elected he said he wasn't a good student. Nor was he a legacy student like Bush who came from a wealthy and connected family. Yet Obama still managed to get into Columbia and Harvard.

Not only got into Harvard. Excelled at Harvard. He is a member of the American intellectual elite. That bothers poorly educated people like Palin and her followers.

(Spoken as a proud certificate holder of the Harvard School Of Mixology.)

Edited April 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[powderpuff]

.... and his religion is?

Black Liberation Theology.

[Jingthing]

Perhaps Palin can clear the air here?!?

"I think the media is loving this because they want to make birthers, as they call people who are just curious about the President of the United States and his background and his associations and his consistency with what he says today versus what he said in both the memoirs that he wrote or Bill Ayers or whomever wrote them—the media is loving the fact that some curious Americans are actually asking the questions. And they're trying to make those curious Americans sound kind of crazy. So the media is loving this issue and they're perpetuating the issue, trying to make it sound really worse than it is."

Fox News interview

Sadly, it's looking probable that Palin won't run for president. That would have been real entertainment to watch.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[powderpuff]

It is ironic that so many Americans remained quite nonchalant

about this issue all through this debate even as the Obama administration prepares to introduce

the most unbelievably tough set of new criteria for USA passport applications

" The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form DS-5513 asks were you circumcised? Also asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history including employers' and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone numbers; personal details of all siblings; mother's address one year prior to your birth; any "religious ceremony" around the time of birth; and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form, "failure to provide the information requested may result in … the denial of your U.S. passport application."

http://www.papersple...ort-applicants/

I will go you one better than that. His administration is proposing a law that if you wish to bid on Federal contracts you will submit records showing corporate as well as individuals working in the company to submit records of their political contributions.

WSJ

By executive order. End run around congress & the courts.

[Gonzo the Face]

Why does it matter where you are born as long as you're a citizen.

I will pass on your suggestion to the founding fathers.

I hope you're not planning that meeting any time soon UG???

[Jingthing]

I also don't like everything Obama has done; who does? Anyway the changes in potential passport application questions are mostly directed at screening questionable Latino births in the Southwest. That comes short of the call from some people to change the constitutional rules in regards to American birthplace granting the instant option for US citizenship. So in that sense it's more of a watered down republcan/right wing anti-immigrant type thing and it's really strange that the noise about that would be coming from the right wing. I find the circumcision question really bizarre. As a member of the tribe, I guess I should know about that, but I never even asked my parents for the gory details when they were alive and don't know how many people who could produce a certificate for that. Who needs a paper for that? (Just look down.)

Another thing I wonder about the passport application rules. Surely they won't be applied to people who have EXISTING passports already, will they?

Edited April 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Apparently in one of Obama's memoirs that was written before he was elected he said he wasn't a good student.

Was that the second book which he wrote or the first one that was allegedly ghost written by Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers?

[Jingthing]

The birthers -- they won't quit. Ever. Gotta love em as they are a huge boon to the Obama reelection campaign. They are right wing EXTREMISTS and Americans don't like extremists of any kind. This noise about Obama being a socialist is so silly. He's much more like an old style moderate republican! I wish he was really more left wing as do most leftist Americans. Fox News type propagandists forget that a large portion of Americans who don't like Obamacare don't like it because it is so watered down and isn't anything close to nationalized health care/single payer as in Canada as most leftists want. (Instead it's a huge welfare scheme for the corporate "health" industry.)

Regarding this snippet, CLEARLY the reason they wrote down that Obama's baby Daddy was "African" back in 1961 was the fact that he was in fact AFRICAN. As in from AFRICA, as in a citizen of a country in AFRICA. These birthers crack me up!

Conspiracy theories have the self-sustaining gift of ramification: They sprout new tendrils, like a mad vine that has invaded from another continent. For the committed conspiracy theorist, there is always another angle to explore, another anomaly to scrutinize.

Orly Taitz, a prominent Obama critic who has questioned his birthplace, told Talking Points Memo that she thinks the newly released document is questionable because Obama’s father’s race is listed as “African.”

“It sounds like it would be written today, in the age of political correctness, and not in 1961, when they wrote white or Asian or ‘Negro,’” Taitz said.

...

“It’s a code word: ‘He’s not one of us,’ ” Jackson said, giving his view of the birther mind-set. “ ‘He wasn’t born here. He’s not a Christian. He’s a Muslim, we don’t worship the same god.’ It’s a very coded designation to try undermine his legitimacy.”

Jackson added, “ ‘Birther’ is a kind label for a much deeper and toxic movement.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-release-of-birth-certificate-does-little-to-allay-birther-fears/2011/04/27/AFv4RP1E_story_1.html Edited April 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Fox News type propagandists

The "Fox News type propagandists" have been saying that Obama was born in Hawaii all along and making fun of Trump. It is interesting how many blatant lies are told about what is said on Fox News.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[midas]

It is ironic that so many Americans remained quite nonchalant

about this issue all through this debate even as the Obama administration prepares to introduce

the most unbelievably tough set of new criteria for USA passport applications

" The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form DS-5513 asks were you circumcised? Also asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history including employers' and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone numbers; personal details of all siblings; mother's address one year prior to your birth; any "religious ceremony" around the time of birth; and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form, "failure to provide the information requested may result in … the denial of your U.S. passport application."

http://www.papersple...ort-applicants/

I will go you one better than that. His administration is proposing a law that if you wish to bid on Federal contracts you will submit records showing corporate as well as individuals working in the company to submit records of their political contributions.

WSJ

By executive order. End run around congress & the courts.

“Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice

Shouldn't it work the other way as well though ? Such as

Obama's buddy Jeffrey Immelt of GE being made to produce documents

to show how he can get away without paying a dime in taxes?

[chuckd]

I also don't like everything Obama has done; who does? Anyway the changes in potential passport application questions are mostly directed at screening questionable Latino births in the Southwest. That comes short of the call from some people to change the constitutional rules in regards to American birthplace granting the instant option for US citizenship. So in that sense it's more of a watered down republcan/right wing anti-immigrant type thing and it's really strange that the noise about that would be coming from the right wing. I find the circumcision question really bizarre. As a member of the tribe, I guess I should know about that, but I never even asked my parents for the gory details when they were alive and don't know how many people who could produce a certificate for that. Who needs a paper for that? (Just look down.)

Another thing I wonder about the passport application rules. Surely they won't be applied to people who have EXISTING passports already, will they?

It seems apparent to me you have had very few dealings with the State Department.

They will do whatever is within their power to do, depending on their mood at the time.

If you really think this is all a 'republcan/right wing anti-immigrant type thing' then, in my opinion, you have been sadly misled. This sort of thing smacks of the "Czar too far" type actions currently being used by the EPA, Homeland Security, Energy Department, Federal Reserve, et al, of the current administration.

[Ulysses G.]

There are still a ton of ignorant bigots in the US, who, for what ever reason, don't want to come directly out of the closet and admit the real reason for their angst. 

You mean the ones who elected Obama in the first place? There are hard-core bigots in the U.S. who hate him for his color, but they are a small minority. However, more and more average citizens are starting to hate his silly policies. 

[geriatrickid]

If you aren't at least a little curious how he applied himself while at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard Law, then that is your choice. It just doesn't happen to be mine.

Apparently in one of Obama's memoirs that was written before he was elected he said he wasn't a good student. Nor was he a legacy student like Bush who came from a wealthy and connected family. Yet Obama still managed to get into Columbia and Harvard.

My undergraduate grades were nothing spectacular. On the basis of academic record alone I should not have been allowed into a graduate faculty distinguished by some of the sharpest minds on the continent including Nobel prize and other prestigious award winners. However, my supplementary information, work experience and interview carried some weight and the admissions committee selected me. One can't have a student body comprised solely of braniacs. There has to be a mix of all types of people. I did remarkably well in my first graduate school. Many thousands of people just like me have entered graduate school on that basis. I then went on to another renowned graduate school. I applied for jobs and eventually ended up in a position with an important title and ego fluffing responsibility. Not once did anyone demand my transcripts. I was making decisions that involved large sums of money and impacted lives. In one case HR did verify that I had indeed attended the universities on my CV and did possess the diplomas claimed. What mattered was if I was a member in good standing of my professional body, which was demonstrated by my holding various jurisdictional licenses. I could only obtain those licenses if I had passed the mandated exams and satisfied the regulators. In the case of Mr. Obama, he passed his state bar exam(s) and met his governing state bar requirement to practice law. That is all that matters. His status as a member in good standing of his bar was public record. His academic records have/had no bearing whatsoever on his job as a senator or a President.

Again I ask why the people demanding Mr. Obama's transcripts never made the same demands of Supreme Court Justice nominees. Surely, the justices deciding on the weighty issues of the constitution and civil life should be subject to such scrutiny? It seems that the senators grilling these nominees place more emphasis on the nominee's past work experience, judicial history and good standing with the profession than they do with academic performance. No one demands the academic records of nominees, although some nominees will make reference to them.

I find it incredibly hypocritical that there are people who will get angry with the questions public agencies ask when it comes to taxes or something as anonymous as the census. Yet, here they are demanding that the personal life, the very basic right to privacy, be stripped from a person. The undergraduate academic records of someone are private matter and nosey folks do not have a right to go on a fishing trip. One can verify if someone is a legitimate diploma holder. That is fair and understandable. Mr. Obama has not blocked that verification. The dispute is a fight over the fundamental right to privacy. The obsessive voyeurism of some people is both rude and nosey. Mr. Obama's position is one that protects me from prying eyes too. If one is a believer in the right to privacy one will understand the big picture.

Edited April 28, 2011 by geriatrickid

[TAWP]

Can any of you supporters please tell me just why somebody would spend around 3 million dollars keeping this and his school records hidden if there is nothing wrong ?

Why didn't / doesn't he just show them ?

I couldn't care less either way whether he is a naturtally born American or not just can't understand the reason he has spent so much money trying to stop people from seeing his records ?

Ithought him winning would have been a good thing for America but he seems to be like the rest of them

Why have you spent 5 million dollar to hide the fact that you supported Al Quaida in 2001?

[geriatrickid]

It is ironic that so many Americans remained quite nonchalant

about this issue all through this debate even as the Obama administration prepares to introduce

the most unbelievably tough set of new criteria for USA passport applications

" The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form DS-5513 asks were you circumcised? Also asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history including employers' and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone numbers; personal details of all siblings; mother's address one year prior to your birth; any "religious ceremony" around the time of birth; and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form, "failure to provide the information requested may result in … the denial of your U.S. passport application."

http://www.papersple...ort-applicants/

How about you include the reason why the form is requested?

The form is used for those people that cannot provide a legally valid birth certificate. This means that for the vast majority of people, the questionnaire is not required. The form is used to verify the claims of the applicant, to identify those that are engaging in a fraudulent application. Almost all US born citizens today will have an acceptable birth certificate and this document will not be necessary.

[TAWP]

Holding an elective office is even more reason why ANY candidate should be upfront about their qualifications, or lack of same.

No, it is not. It might be a good way to get elected if one thinks some specific qualifications would make it easier for people to choose you, but it should by no means be any requirement.

[TAWP]

The country is hurting but the President is busy playing golf.

?

[Langsuan Man]

Fox News type propagandists 

The "Fox News type propagandists" have been saying that Obama was born in Hawaii all along and making fun of Trump.  It is interesting how many blatant lies are told about what is said on Fox News.  

Oh you mean like this blatant lie

[Scott]

I managed to watch just a small bit about this on CNN and they were interviewing some of the right-wing folks. As I suspected, it settled nothing. They are now questioning the timing and why it was released now. They are questioning if he was in fact a dual citizen because his father was from Kenya. They are also questioning whether or not he was adopted by his Indonesian step-father and is in fact Indonesian.

To be a natural born citizen you do not have to be born on US soil. If one of your parents is a citizen you are a 'natural' born citizen. A non-natural born citizen is one who is 'naturalized'.

Everyone can rest assured that he was properly vetted by the relevant committees prior to being nominated.

Those who wish to discredit him will now move on to other topics such as those non-issues already mentioned, his college transcripts etc.

Whether you like him or not, whether you agree with his policies or not, whether you dispute his leadership skills are all relevant concerns, but he took office with a country that was in an incredible mess. That is not something that will change overnight.

Americans are capable of a lot of things, but they do not like to wait and instant gratification is now considered a right. It won't happen regardless of who is president or how many documents are released.

[Ulysses G.]

Where is the "LIE"?

Obama Trumps Trump -- The Donald Walks Right Into the President's

Trap

By Ellen Ratner

FoxNews.com

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1KpAmD1Pv

Edited April 28, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[midas]

It is ironic that so many Americans remained quite nonchalant

about this issue all through this debate even as the Obama administration prepares to introduce

the most unbelievably tough set of new criteria for USA passport applications

" The U.S. Department of State is proposing a new Biographical Questionnaire for some passport applicants: The proposed new Form DS-5513 asks were you circumcised? Also asks for all addresses since birth; lifetime employment history including employers' and supervisors names, addresses, and telephone numbers; personal details of all siblings; mother's address one year prior to your birth; any "religious ceremony" around the time of birth; and a variety of other information. According to the proposed form, "failure to provide the information requested may result in … the denial of your U.S. passport application."

http://www.papersple...ort-applicants/

How about you include the reason why the form is requested?

The form is used for those people that cannot provide a legally valid birth certificate. This means that for the vast majority of people, the questionnaire is not required. The form is used to verify the claims of the applicant, to identify those that are engaging in a fraudulent application. Almost all US born citizens today will have an acceptable birth certificate and this document will not be necessary.

the draft of the application form says while a birth certificate might exempt you from some questions, such as the pre-natal ones, it appears all applicants would potentially have to fill out the extensive sections on employment history and past addresses.

Edited April 28, 2011 by midas

[Ulysses G.]

Fox News type propagandists

The "Fox News type propagandists" have been saying that Obama was born in Hawaii all along and making fun of Trump. It is interesting how many blatant lies are told about what is said on Fox News.

Oh you mean like this blatant lie

Please provide a link. Photoshop works wonders.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Ulysses G.