Retirement Visa App Question

[danozxfxr]

Hello all & thanks in advance for any solid info!

I understand all requirements for retirement visas, no problem there. But can one apply from his/her home country. I've been told by 3 people here you must come in on a non-immigrant visa and then make application here. I'm sure you can do that but it seems a little easier just coming in on a retirement visa. I know the Consulates (Los Angeles for example) have application forms for the retirement visa. Appreciate any clarification!

[InterestedObserver]

You can apply for a non-immigrant "O-A" long-stay (retirement) visa in your home country. Upon arrival in Thailand you get permission to stay for one-year from immigration at the airport.

[Pib]

Thai "Visas" are applied for/issued outside Thailand; extension of stays are applied for/issued within Thailand.

Note: yes, you will read some posts where a person gets a 30/15 visa upon arrival when entering Thailand, then they go to immigration to convert it to a 90 day non-immigrant O visa, and then 60 days later convert it to a one year extension of stay based on retirement. But this happens on exception, and not routinely. Check out this current post for more info.

[Lite Beer]

Moved to the Visa Forum.

[Lite Beer]

Apply for the Non Imm O-A Visa in U.S or apply for a 12 month extension in Thailand.

Whatever suits you.

[NancyL]

To apply for an O-A visa in the U.S. you have to jump thru more hoops than in Thailand, specifically the police/criminal check, the medical certificate and the evidence of financial worth. All you need to get a one-year extension of stay is based on income/financial worth once in Thailand, is very easy to do as an American. You just go to the American Embassy in Bangkok or the Consulate in Chiang Mai, fill out a form listing your monthly income and have them notarize it. You should make your appointment on-line. It's under "American Citizen Services" on their websites. They don't want to look at your financial statements to support your claim and sure don't want to keep copies of your income statements.

Here are the hoops we jumped thru in the U.S. to get an O-A visa -- our local police dept, financial advisor and physicians took their required forms rather seriously. Our M.D. actually looked up the various diseases he had to certify we didn't have, because he'd never seen them in his practice. Our financial counselor had to send his paperwork to the home office of his company for review to get a corporate lawyer to sign off. The police dept made us come in to get fingerprinted, and basically go thru the entire process like we were getting booked for a crime and then they sent the paperwork off to the state for a criminal check. They did comment that usually people didn't laugh, joke and act like they were having a good time in the booking room. I'd never seen the booking area or cells in our local jail. Looked like it all could be hosed down and disinfected easily. The "booking officer" commented that every bodily fluid a human could produce had been on the walls and floor. Then we sent everything off to the Thai Consulate in Chicago, waited 10 days longer than their website said it should take and they returned our passports with an O-A (retirement) visa for Hubby and an O visa for me. No explanation about why I hadn't gotten an O-A visa. So I had to jump thru the hoops at the American consulate and the Immigration office in Chiang Mai once I got in on my O visa.

It's really a question of whether you want to have everything lined up before you get here, or are prepared to jump thru a few hoops immediately upon arrival to convert your 30 day permission to stay (granted at Thai airports to Americans upon arrival), into an O visa and then turn it into a 12 month permission to stay based on retirement a month or two later. If you elect to wait until you get to the kingdom, don't dally. You don't need to find a place to live, open bank accounts, transfer funds, do social activities. Your top priority immediately upon arrival should be to get a your long-term permission to stay.

Whatever you do, don't sent stuff here with the expectation that it will be duty free because you're a retiree until you actually have a 12 month permission to stay in the kingdom. Make sure the shipping people you deal with in the U.S. get copies of your O-A visa to include with their paperwork if you get your visa in the U.S. and want to ship things from the U.S. as you're leaving. Otherwise, have it stored in the U.S. until you can show the Thai customs people that you have permission to remain in the Kingdom for 12 months.

[JimGant]

Excellent post, Nancy.

Did Chicago require that the paperwork be "notarized?"

[NancyL]

I don't really remember if the Chicago consulate required signatures to be notarized. They probably did, but it was so easy to get a notary signature in the U.S. that I don't remember. We could get documents notarized for free at the offices of our local branch bank, financial counselor or our lawyer's office and no one ever charged us for a notary stamp. It would have been the least of our worries.

Not like now when we have to make an appointment at the Amnerican Consulate weeks in advance, go thru their security screen, wait and pay $50 for their stamp.

At one of the offices where we got required documents (I can't remember if it was at the police station or the financial counselor), we joked about how the Thai people seemed to like fancy stamps, embossing, etc and they came up with a few extra stamps, embossing and even affixed a seal with some ribbons. Didn't seem to help me get an O-A visa, though.

[KimoMax]

Dan, I and another friend have both used the LA Consulate on several occasions previously for Non O-A Retirment Visa's.

Police checks were name checks and routinely done if you tell the desk records officer that you need a Police clearance to obtain a Visa for a foreign country. Most Departments and Sheriff offices are aware of how to do this. You do not need to go thru a complete Police clearance like a school employee for a DOJ (department of justice) clearance. Less than $15 for the Name check clearance. they check if you are wanted locally by you name and birthdate.

Medical clearance are routinely done by personal Doctor or clinics without much hastle. If you have a relationship with your own doctor, use that person. They usually will not do extended and extra tests, because of the diseases asked about on the form. Most are not common or are quite evident to your Doctor if you have them.

Financial can be done by using your W-2's or Retirement Monthly or yearly statements. Money in bank can be done by a letter of balance from the bank, or even a current statement. You can also use the most recent IRS or State Tax return.

I have gone to a Notary who can not Notorise the Police, Medical, and financial documents forms themselves, but I sign a cover letter stating that all the douments are original true and correct copies.

The first time I applied at LA, I used a service (Thai/American business) across the street from the Consulate that issues Money orders to the Consulate, and also will Notorise the documents and submit them for you to the Consulate. All legal and proper. They do charge a fee, but don't think it was very much more than the Visa fee price.

[Langsuan Man]

LA is the ONLY consulate in the US that requires the notarization of the documents. The Embassy in Washington does not, nor does the Consulate in New York

I am on my fourth Non Immigrant O-A (long stay) and continue to find the process the easiest. My doctor has no problem attesting to the fact that I don't have 3rd stage syphilis, elephantiasis, etc. My state (PA) will sell me a criminal records check certificate via the web for $10 and is official enough looking to warm the heart of any Thai bureaucrat, and I just submit my monthly pay slip for my retirement income verification

(my first criminal records check was done by my country sheriff in VA for free)

All done by mail, just follow the instructions. I am able to get 2 years so long as I leave Thailand and return right before the visa expires

Since I only spend winters in Thailand this happens to be the easiest system for me, only requiring 90 day reports and no visits to the US Embassy in Bangkok

[NancyL]

Sounds like the LA Consulate may be easier to work with than the Chicago Consulate. We were told we had to use the one in Chicago because we lived in Michigan.

While it wasn't expensive to get everything together, it was time-consuming and nerve racking.

Our physician had just left the practice (a larger corporate practice), so the new doc didn't know us well and made us undergo tests for VD and TB.

We were told we had to initiate the process of a criminal check in our state, with a visit to the local police dept. We lived in a little rural township and the cops there had never done anything like a criminal check for a Thai vsa. Thus they used the most complete procedure they knew.

Hubby and I were self-employed in an agricultural business. We didn't have W2s, pay stubs and our tax returns looked like we didn't make any money because there are so many tax write-offs for farmers. Thus, our financial counselor had to get involved to attest to our various investment accounts that "could" generate income for us, but weren't since we didn't need the income from those accounts while running the farming operation.

Someone with a simplier life in an urban setting probably could have pulled all this stuff together easier.

That's why it was such a bummer when we finally got the visas and learned that Hubby got an O-A, but for some reason never explained I just got an O, so I got to do the 12 month visa extension due to retirement once I got here. It was an amazingly easy process here in Chiang Mai. Much, much easier than what we went thru to get Hubby's O-A visa in the U.S.

[lopburi3]

You have mentioned not getting an O-A visa at least 3 times now but that is normal for extensions of stay for retirement (one person gets and the other gets dependent extension of stay inside Thailand). All you need is a non immigrant O visa for entry and then extend on proof of spouse having a one year stay. You would not need any financial proof for that method. If you both want the O-A it should be separate applications and financial proof for each.

[danozxfxr]

Thank you all! I think I'll apply through LA or Washington. As Nancy said, there's an advantage of haveing the visa Stateside so it can be included with shipping documents. Very helpful, thanks again!!!

[NancyL]

Yes, Lopburi3 I was very bummed out in not getting an O-A visa. I submitted my own application and paid the fee for an O-A visa. All of our financial accounts are in both names. I worked just as hard on the farm as my husband. I also submitted a police check and doctors form. I wasn't requesting to go in as a dependent. It would have been nice to have been granted the courtesy of an explanation as to why I didn't get an O-A visa when the O visa was returned.

We didn't realize that I had different visas. To our untrained eye, the documents added to our passports looked identical. We each thought we had O-A retirement visas and thus made arrangements to ship our personal goods to Thailand. Yes, I realize now it was my error, but a heads-up from the Thai Consulate in Chicago would have been nice when they returned our passports, literally hours before our flight was scheduled to leave.

Then we had all sorts of problems getting our household goods out of the Chiang Mai airport customs dept, as I've discussed elsewhere. Had we known about the visa problem, we would have waited until I got the permission to stay resolved before requesting shipment of our goods.

[lopburi3]

Financial accounts no longer seem to be accepted in both names (at least not for extensions in Thailand) and when they were the amount required was double the sum for a single extension of stay.

[KimoMax]

Wow Nancy, Seems you two ran into just about every obsticle immaginable to get your O and O-A Visa's.

Does it really matter if you have a Dependent, or a Retired Visa, since your husband has a Retirement Visa ?

[WilliamIV]

You just go to the American Embassy in Bangkok or the Consulate in Chiang Mai, fill out a form listing your monthly income and have them notarize it. They don't want to look at your financial statements to support your claim and sure don't want to keep copies of your income statements.

Posts elsewhere indicate that Immigration might want to see your financial statements to support your claim.

Bill

[NancyL]

Maybe my understanding is wrong, but I was under the impression that if I'd just kept the O visa, I would have to do a "visa run" every 90 days. With a 12 month retirement extension (or if I'd gotten the O-A visa I applied for) I wouldn't have to do visa runs every 90 days. Hubby says our budget can't stand me shopping in Mae Sai 4 times annually.

Besides, the CM airport customs people were throwing up the lack of a 1 yr permission to stay as reason to charge duty since the shipment of household goods was addressed to Mr AND Mrs Hubby. I suppose they could have been really nasty and said the goods had arrived when I had just a 90 day permission to remain, but Hubby had already had a fit at airport customs about sending the whole lot back to my brother in the U.S., so they changed their tune once I got a 12 month permission to stay.

One of our first acts was to transfer 800,000 baht into an account at Bangkok Bank in just my name. Even though the account gives minimal interest it's turned out to be the best investment we made in the past two years. We brought the money in when the dollar was 37 baht and now it's a little less than 30. Yes, we'd heard about Immigration in the Kingdom not accepting joint accounts. But, we'd been assured by the Thai Consulate in Chicago that they were OK for getting the U.S.-issued O-A visa.

So, yes, were were on a little shaky ground when I went to the American Consulate shortly after arrival and got an Income Letter to secure my first 12 month extension of stay. The income that we had at the time was coming from jointly owned accounts in the U.S. Since then, I've done my 12 month extensions using a Bangkok Bank letter for my sole account which is much cheaper and easier to obtain than the US Consulate letter

[Mario2008]

With a multiple non-O you indeed have to do a border run every 90 days, unless you apply for an extension of stay. With a single non-O you would have to do a visa run every 90 days to obtain a new visa, untill you get an extensin of stay.

Border run: leave the country, enter another country, exit that country and re-enter Thailand.

Visa run: get a new visa abroad.

[Pib]

Thank you all! I think I'll apply through LA or Washington. As Nancy said, there's an advantage of having the visa Stateside so it can be included with shipping documents. Very helpful, thanks again!!!

I don't mean to burst any happy bubble regarding shipping items, but I recommend you refer to the below Thai Customs web page regarding shipping of household items. Having a O-A visa does not exempt you from customs charges on items shipped over. Please note the Note under the paragraph label "Requirements for Changing Residence", which states: "Note : Nonresidents entering into the Kingdom with a non-immigrant visa "code O" who wish to retire in Thailand or accompany spouses of Thai residents are not qualified for (1)"

http://www.customs.g...nuNme=HouseHold

Now a Retirement O-A visa is just one of the many types of non O code visas. You can do a search on ThaiVisa regarding the shipping over/import of household effects and see many posts where retirees/people got tagged with customs charges or paying tea money to avoid very high customs charges. And of course there are other posts where retirees got lucky and got their items customs free, but a person just wonders sometimes if they are telling/knew the whole story (i.e., tea money was paid or they let their shipper charge them more in order to cover/pay customs).

When the wife (Thai & US citizen) and I (US citizen) retired to Thailand (me on a Retirement O-A visa), we shipped everything under her name and only used her Thai passport in shipping documents. My name didn't exist anywhere on any documents. I had already read the many retirees moving to Thailand customs horrors stories on ThaiVisa and read the Thai Govt Customs web site, and knew shipping the items under my name would prevent me from getting customs free entry on items shipped over per customs regulations (unless I got lucky). We still had to got to Customs in Bangkok after the shipment arrived for them to confirm she was a Thai citizen, see her Thai passport, ask some questions, ensure she had been been out of the country the required time per the customs rules, etc. When the dust settled, we did end up getting the items customs free with no tea money payment because of her returning Thai citizen status. But as a foreigner moving to Thailand/shipping items to Thailand under a Non O type visa, such as a Retirement O-A visa, you are not authorized customs free entry. But I hope you get lucky, some people apparently do, and do get the shipment without a customs payment or without under the table tea money payment. Cheers and good luck in the move.

[NancyL]

Sorry, Pib, your link doesn't lead anywhere. I'm interested in the information to help my friend who has his household items in customs hold right now.

[lopburi3]

Customs link

http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/HouseholdEffects/HouseholdEffects.jsp?menuNme=HouseHold

[NancyL]

Lopburi, thanks for the link.

I'm confused in reading it as to whether a person entering the Kingdom with a 1-year permission to stay based on retirement is allowed to bring in household items duty free. Certainly someone with a 12 month work permit can (based on this document), but obviously someone won't have a WP if they're here with a retirement extension to an O visa.

[lopburi3]

Welcome to the world of Customs (not just Thailand). In your case it seems they consider the O-A a one year extension of stay (which it is - pre-approved) and will allow you to import on that (so wording would be for entry with a 90 day visa or multi 90 day visa they would not?).

[wpcoe]

LA is the ONLY consulate in the US that requires the notarization of the documents. The Embassy in Washington does not, nor does the Consulate in New York

The Chicago consulate also requires notarization, or at least did a couple years ago when a friend got his O-A visa there.

From http://www.thaiconsulatechicago.org/clate/o-a.html:

2. Documents for the Application.

a. A passport valid no less than one year and a half.

b. Three copies of a Visa Application Form (with photos).

c. A personal Data Form.

d. A copy of a bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to no less than 800.000 Baht a year.

e. In the case of the bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is to be shown as well.

f. Verification stating that the applicant has no criminal recoded issued from the country of his/her nationality of residence (the verification shall be valid for no more than 3 months).

g. A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E.2535) (the certificate shall be valid for no more than 3 months).

h. In the case that the applicant wishes to have his/her spouse stay together in the kingdom but the spouse in not qualified from the O-A code visa, their marriage certificate shall also be produced as evidence. (The spouse will be considered from the Visa for Temporary Residents under the 'O' Code).

Documents in items 2d, e, f, and g need to be notalized and sealed by Notary Public and certify true signature of the notary public by the Secretary of State.