Osama Bin Laden dead - USA has his body

[Ulysses G.]

Ghandi ran the brits out of India with nonviolence.

That says more good things about Britain than Gandhi. Do you really think that would have worked with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan? Gandhi and his followers would have been crushed immediately.

[trisailer]

Nothing anti-American about respecting the rule of law and keeping to international agreements. I have no problems with killing the bad guy before he kills me, but real courage comes from training and taking the extra split second to be sure.

[jinn007]

Glad this prick is dead! sorry it took so long! Glad that they got one of his son I hope there were more! But 35 miles from the capital of Pakistan supports that this country was hiding him for years especially the size of the compound which stood out like a palace! This government has lots to answer for and U.S. should seriously think about stopping support this country with money! If they are being overun by Al Quada they deserve it. They should keep his body frozen and once the World Trade Towers are built should throw his body down from the top to celebrate. I myself am heading down to Walking Street tonight to celebrate with some ping pongs.

Nobody said this man was not scum. But i think you are very short sighted. And maybe the U.S. should remove their troops from around the globe and concentrate on all the shit they have going on in the U.S. And let those who have oil decided who to sale it to and who not to sale it to and then maybe the world would be a better place for all of us .Have you ever served in the armed force? most of the soldiers believe that they are doing no good for the countries they are based in and would rather be at home having a cold one not walking around waiting to be shoot ,blow up in some shit hole were the majority of the countries people think you have no right there . When the f** k will it end.

You are the idiot that you are! Short sighted, I suggest you look in the mirror! I'm just as liberal as the next person but people like you just don't get the big picture! I don't agree to everything the U.S. has done and I had certainly preached what is happening today to our own domestic economic problem! You are the type of person who say don't drill for oil but is the first to complain why gas is so expensive. You are the type of person who protest that we can't cut down one tree and have a house in the woods and when it burn down you are the first to wonder why it happen and quickly ask where is FEMA and my cash? You are the type of person who claim jobs are being shipped out of the country and is the first in line after Thanksgiving outside Walmart buying everything that is made in China. You are the type that complain when they have to be scan at the airport but the first to cry when something happens. You are the type that is ruining our education system by complaining that our teachers must teach this way but at the same time say they are paid too much. You are the type of person complaining about high taxes at the same time complain about why our State and Cities have so many Fee's. In the end you are the type politicians behind close door call " Stupid "

you just don't get the big picture because you are the type that is so self righteous that you are blind that the U.S. goes out and help and yes hurt others around the world but tell me what country doesn't do the same. Can you tell me China or Russia is better? Do you see any of the Middle East countries turning down our aid? You have no facts that " most soldiers " believe that they are doing no good " but I'm sure there are some! This is a volunteer nor forced army! Our country good or bad did not attack first like they attack on 9/11. I would like to live in a dream world like you but I can't! I didn't serve in the Armed force but <deleted> does that have to do with being a American? Loosing a niece and nephew on 9/11, I think is enough! Good or Bad you enjoy democracy in your life because of it. I too would like the U.S. to stop giving money to everyone while within our own country is dying within but I'm realistic it isn't going to happen no matter who is in charged.

Maybe you would appreciate what you have if you lost someone close to you who never had a choice to live! I'm mad at America just like you but we didn't fly planes into buildings and strap bombs on kids to get back at us!

I am deeply sorry for your lose's and hope this will bring closer for you.I to have lost many a good friend to war and not all of them have been volunteers in the armed forces as to the fact that i have know proof that most soldiers do not want to be in the countries they have been dispatched to,well maybe you should take up with a few of them once they have returned and this might give you better insight as to what there actual views are and not what there views are after they have been debriefed. As per you not serving in the armed force that is your choice and a damned good one maybe that is why you are still around today .As per politicians calling guys like me stupid they are probable right because i am one of the idiots that fell for the line democracy, liberty, justice, free and fair .As to the U.S. giving aid to every one this we know is true but some times there aid is in the form of arms which end up back on the soil they came from and help cause destruction on the very soil they were made in.As per the fact that all countries do the same does not make it right or justify what they do ,and yes kid's strap bombs to them self and blow up innocent people but some of those kids have had there counties invaded and have seen the there families friends and loved ones killed raped and worse before their very eyes,would you not be angry, confused , and store hatred and swear revenge.This is not a perfect world BUT AS LONG AS THE FAT CATS ARE CALLING THE SHOTS AND GREED IS FIRST ON THE LIST THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE IS IN DANGER ! The big picture is very clear.Self righteous no used YES .Two wrongs do not make a right, do not judge a nation buy one man.And yes maybe BIN LADEN got what was coming to him and yes a lot of families may now put a closer on the event's 2/11 i fear that a lot more innocent people will pay in blood and thus said there will be many more grieving families that will need closer in the near future ALL IN THE NAME OF PEACE.

[ChristopherWilliamsBKK]

how could even one person believe that after 10 years and hundreds of thousands of attributed deaths (directly and indirectly) that he was dumped into the sea immediately for any other reason than it cant be proven or questioned again.

Because not providing a shrine for other nut-jobs and hate-mongers is sensible indeed.

A sensible bit of reasoning to a point, but if we take that thinking further, why even mention his death?

[happyrobert]

Nothing anti-American about respecting the rule of law and keeping to international agreements. I have no problems with killing the bad guy before he kills me, but real courage comes from training and taking the extra split second to be sure.

Like when exiting a 7-11.

" Flight of fight this could be my last breath if I screw it up."

[jucel]

Ghandi ran the brits out of India with nonviolence. MLK changed America for the better with nonviolence. Those are two examples of success at changing the world through nonviolence. I have a much harder task of finding where violence ever produced sustainable change for the better.

An eye for and eye leaves everyone blind - Ghandi

Nelson Mandela, however, did use violence.

But then again, all it did was land him in jail. However, when he used a peaceful path all things changed.

Quite right.

used a peaceful path!!! you're being sarcastic right?

[luckizuchinni]

Let's be a little more accurate. I don't know of any Japanese soldier or sailor who was hanged for mere torture. .

Well then you need to do a bit of reading

Here is a simple start for you

http://www.politifac...-waterboarding/

McCain is referencing the Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning.

" ... following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."

John McCain on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 in a campaign event in St. Petersburg

There is much more available to read if you would only look & yes they were hung for the crimes.

"Among those charges" means that their were more charges on top of that. Simple torture in and of itself was not grounds for execution. Some 930 Japanese were executed after the war, and going from memory, none that I remember were convicted of only torture. Rather, most of the convictions and sentences to death where torture was conducted were for the killing done to cover up the torture.

Japan never signed the Geneva Conventions before the war, and "torture" was a vague subject. Execution of prisoners and civilians was much more clear cut.

Several Japanese soldiers were convicted of waterboarding, true (as were US soldiers who did this in the Philippines almost 50 years earlier.). So I personally agree with your basic point. But as best as I can remember from my research, no one was hung for it nor for any other kinds of torture in and of itself.

[trisailer]

"That says more good things about Britain than Gandhi. Do you really think that would have worked with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan? Gandhi and his followers would have been crushed immediately"

I admit that's hard to say how it would have worked in those situations. It's complicated for sure. I know for myself my allegiance is to my family and my immediate community. No outside power friendly or otherwise is going to change that fact. There were like 9 attemps on Hitlers life by Germans I think time would have taken care of him and germany or Japan would have realised that they had a unsustainable model.

Maybe someday we'll have a supercomputer to analyze what the outcome would have been had after twenty years if no one would have resisted but welcomed the Nazi's to give it their best shot at managing all it's conqured countries. I suspect that megalomania would probably not be a sustainable management style. Thailand did not resist the Japanese, nobody died, they made money working for them and throughout they remained Thai. They also got the jump on their neighbors towards progress.

I think it's clear that the American civil war set the US back decades and killed over a million people. There is no doubt in my mind that had the south been allowed to go their own way they would have returned eventually and the net result would have been better.

One could argue that the damage done by the winners of WWII deviding up the spoils caused more damage in the long term than if nobody resisted. The idea of nationaity is created by leaders who can't manage. Most people just want to feed their families and hang out with their friends.

[IvanDobsky]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

was that directed at me?

There are many things that I love about America, not least musical or literary genii such as Armstrong or Hemingway. I certainly don't hate the USA, its people or its success.

Neither do I pity anybody who would torture another human being. Torture doesn't even work as people who are tortured will say anything to make it stop.

Is it really that you are "...forced to level the playing field.." ? because to many it looks like you risk becoming the same as what you despise.

[Wallaby]

International Law should not be something you can pick and chose at will. I guess any country can now refuse to follow international law and all will be ok.

As for the warterboarding, it is illegal, I don't care if Bin Laden's whereabouts were obtained that way, what about the many people who are tortured and do not know. What about the many people who give false information because of the torture. I'm sure innocent people have been tortured and/or killed because of false information gained through torture.

There is no excuse for it.....EVER and the Bush government should be totally ashamed of themselves for condoning it and ordering it. Once you cross that path you can't then complain when your own army/citizens are tortured by others.

I am not advocating torture. It is often useless as people will tell anything to get it to stop, true or not.

On the other hand, if I was in combat and one of my men taken, and I knew I had only a few precious moments before it would be too late to rescue him, would I "torture" one of the enemy to get the info I need to affect a rescue? Would I threaten to kill him? Hit him? Or would i wait for him to be taken to the rear and interrogated by the experts who use approved interrogation techniques and have any information gained be too late to do any good?

If I was a policeman and I had a kidnapper who had hidden away a child, and that child's life was in danger, would I attempt t use force to get the kidnapper to tell me where the child was?

I have to admit that I might be tempted to use whatever method it took to get the info I needed.

When does the end justify the means? And if it is OK to use torture in the two hypotheticals above, then where is the line where it is not OK?

Once again, I am not advocating torture. But it also makes me think on what I might do in such a situation.

I hear you, and sure, we are all human and I too think I would do the same.

The issue I have is not particularly related to the combat situations you state. My concerns are when these people are taken off the streets, kidnapped, presumed guilty, held in custody, and tortured. They are not an immediate threat, it is illegal, don't do it, regardless of what your President tells you to do.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Wallaby

[flying]

At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," according to the charging documents.

following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."

"Among those charges" means that their were more charges on top of that. Simple torture in and of itself was not grounds for execution. Some 930 Japanese were executed after the war, and going from memory, none that I remember were convicted of only torture. Rather, most of the convictions and sentences to death where torture was conducted were for the killing done to cover up the torture.

Japan never signed the Geneva Conventions before the war, and "torture" was a vague subject. Execution of prisoners and civilians was much more clear cut.

Several Japanese soldiers were convicted of waterboarding, true (as were US soldiers who did this in the Philippines almost 50 years earlier.). So I personally agree with your basic point. But as best as I can remember from my research, no one was hung for it nor for any other kinds of torture in and of itself.

Not to be pedantic because I think we agree....But if they are hung for war crimes committed against American POW's & at the top of the list of tortures is waterboarding...Then it stands to reason they were in fact prosecuted and or hung...That is/was my point

If waterboarding is now to be accepted then clearly state it. Also do not condemn any others that follow suit.

Somehow I tend to think that is for instance Pakistan had waterboarded Raymond Davis to extract the reason he was in Pakistan it would have been deemed a foul by the US.

I think we agree on this basic point

[trisailer]

Most people are not aware that the foundations of nonviolent resistance to evil were layed down by Tolstoy and influenced both Ghandi and MLK. The sooner we start teaching our children and practicing nonresistance the better off we will be IMO. You can be sure that war as a means of conflict resolution has not gone away. There are countries working on the next great weapon as we speak and there will be no known defense.

[luckizuchinni]

International Law should not be something you can pick and chose at will. I guess any country can now refuse to follow international law and all will be ok.

As for the warterboarding, it is illegal, I don't care if Bin Laden's whereabouts were obtained that way, what about the many people who are tortured and do not know. What about the many people who give false information because of the torture. I'm sure innocent people have been tortured and/or killed because of false information gained through torture.

There is no excuse for it.....EVER and the Bush government should be totally ashamed of themselves for condoning it and ordering it. Once you cross that path you can't then complain when your own army/citizens are tortured by others.

I am not advocating torture. It is often useless as people will tell anything to get it to stop, true or not.

On the other hand, if I was in combat and one of my men taken, and I knew I had only a few precious moments before it would be too late to rescue him, would I "torture" one of the enemy to get the info I need to affect a rescue? Would I threaten to kill him? Hit him? Or would i wait for him to be taken to the rear and interrogated by the experts who use approved interrogation techniques and have any information gained be too late to do any good?

If I was a policeman and I had a kidnapper who had hidden away a child, and that child's life was in danger, would I attempt t use force to get the kidnapper to tell me where the child was?

I have to admit that I might be tempted to use whatever method it took to get the info I needed.

When does the end justify the means? And if it is OK to use torture in the two hypotheticals above, then where is the line where it is not OK?

Once again, I am not advocating torture. But it also makes me think on what I might do in such a situation.

I hear you, and sure, we are all human and I too think I would do the same.

The issue I have is not particularly related to the combat situations you state. My concerns are when these people are taken off the streets, kidnapped, presumed guilty, held in custody, and tortured. They are not an immediate threat, it is illegal, don't do it, regardless of what your President tells you to do.

Stated that way, I agree with you.

[luckizuchinni]

At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," according to the charging documents.

following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."

"Among those charges" means that their were more charges on top of that. Simple torture in and of itself was not grounds for execution. Some 930 Japanese were executed after the war, and going from memory, none that I remember were convicted of only torture. Rather, most of the convictions and sentences to death where torture was conducted were for the killing done to cover up the torture.

Japan never signed the Geneva Conventions before the war, and "torture" was a vague subject. Execution of prisoners and civilians was much more clear cut.

Several Japanese soldiers were convicted of waterboarding, true (as were US soldiers who did this in the Philippines almost 50 years earlier.). So I personally agree with your basic point. But as best as I can remember from my research, no one was hung for it nor for any other kinds of torture in and of itself.

Not to be pedantic because I think we agree....But if they are hung for war crimes committed against American POW's & at the top of the list of tortures is waterboarding...Then it stands to reason they were in fact prosecuted and or hung...That is/was my point

If waterboarding is now to be accepted then clearly state it. Also do not condemn any others that follow suit.

Somehow I tend to think that is for instance Pakistan had waterboarded Raymond Davis to extract the reason he was in Pakistan it would have been deemed a foul by the US.

I think we agree on this basic point

As I posted to Wallaby, I agree that we should not be doing it.

Perhaps you didn't mean it so, but in this thread particularly, I find many people throwing out "facts" with no basis of truth. Technically speaking, an you have to realize that I am thinking back at research done 30 odd years ago, no one was hung for torture but rather for the executions which generally followed. Other Japanese were imprisoned for torture. And some were given their freedom for sharing the knowledge the gained from their medical experimentation.

But perhaps I am getting pedantic as even if they were imprisoned and not executed, your basic premise is valid. And one I happen to agree with.

[jinn007]

Hey any body wonder if the security has been steeped up in Kenya?If obama's relatives are under guard? If in fact they are all still there or are not all in the U.S. Cant but help wonder were the bomb's will start to fall first.

[kmj]

Hey any body wonder if the security has been steeped up in Kenya?If obama's relatives are under guard? If in fact they are all still there or are not all in the U.S. Cant but help wonder were the bomb's will start to fall first.

I don't think AQ have a set of terrorist plans waiting for a special event like this, AQ could just as likely become a chicken with its head cut off,

[venturalaw]

Peter King (R-New York), yeah, there's a guy worth taking seriously on the subject of anti-terrorism.....

In the 1980s, King actively supported terrorists within the Irish Republican movement,...King said: "We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry."...."If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it"..... and asserted that the "British government is a murder machine".

He is in the position to know about the information he shared. Whatever you wish to dig up about his past is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant to people who lived through those times in the UK. He supported terrorists then and is now responsible for homeland security.

Peter King is what we call a hypocrite. He would cut down a giant redwood then stand on the stump and preach conservation.

You completely missed the point. If you want to post evidence that King does not tell the truth, then fine - that would be a valid challenge to the validity of what he reported. His being less than upstanding in your opinion concerning how he treated the citizens of the UK (which, BTW, I agree with you) is a different issue.

[midas]

Believe your heart.

In this matter, solid evidence simply isn't made available to draw a valid conclusion as to what is the truth. But lies are often easier to spot than we sometimes wish to admit, even to ourselves, because doing so takes us way out of our comfort zone--a place where no one wants to be.

But in the long run, does it matter who you believe? Will what you believe make a difference? Does an "informed vote" make a difference anymore?

Enjoy the beach. Drink your Chang ice-cold with an almond-eyed beauty.

While I agree with your sentiment that any solid evidence is once again lacking and in turn any real truth....

And while I can totally appreciate your sentiment of enjoying your Chang/beach/almond eyed beauty....

At the same time I realize that ultimately this is what has brought us... the US citizens to this place.

As more than the majority would rather sit on the couch watching American idol or dancing with the stars thinking an informed vote makes no difference. Today we are exactly what we have allowed ourselves to become.

What is more amazing Flying is how the talking heads on ALL MSM channels have kept this

story going for 24 hours now as almost the one and only story.

Not even Fox news and people like O'Reilly or Hannity have even mentioned or questioned even some of the

points raised in this thread. How can this be when 99% of the time they

don't usually miss a single opportunity to pillory Obama. Surely someone in the MSM must have questions

in their mind ? How can they achieve a blanket acceptance of the story like this on all channels ? Even Al Jazeera doesn't question any of it ?

In other words they are seemingly happy to go along with allowing Obama to claim 100% of the

" credit " for this supposed " achievement ".

Who is instructing them to tow the line like this ?

It's called reality...and no tin foil hats....kinda like trying to say Neil Armstrong never landed on the moon....same same...

At least Russia Today had the guts to allow someone to ask the questions

of all the MSM channels

[venturalaw]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

Is your post directed at my post?

The scum that I pity includes an aussie that has been kept in prison and tortured, found to have had nothing to do with terrorism and has received compensation. So now you refer to innocents as scum. Well that's lovely.

http://www.smh.com.a...0212-1aran.html

This is where torture advocates fail. It's all well and good to think that anyone tortured is guilty and is scum but the reality is that innocent people are tortured, and sometimes they are tortured because of information gained from others that have been tortured.

I don't hate america. It's freedom and unparalleled success, as you put it, are of no concern to me, I have never been there nor wish to go there. How grandiose of you to proclaim your country the be all and end all. Not everyone wants the same freedoms and what you call success. I certainly don't.

I prefer to live in my country where there aren't the freedoms you have. Too much freedom has too many downsides. Unparalleled sucesses? Well I suppose that depends on what you define as success, it's all subjective. If you are happy with what you have in america and consider it a success then I'm happy for you. I prefer my country, with the good and the bad, and consider it a success. Of course there can always be better but to me, becoming like america is not what I would consider my country becoming a success.

How do you justify translating what I said regarding "scum" that tortures Americans to include innocent Aussies who have been tortured? Please explain.

"Not everyone wants" freedom? Ok. Yes, some wish to have government guarantees spanning from cradle to grave - thereby avoiding responsibility and self-reliance. If you fit into that category, good for you. America isn't, or at least wasn't, the type of country that supported your belief system. Unfortunately however, it is definitely heading in that direction (less freedoms) under its current regime.

[venturalaw]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

I dont pity any scum as you so eloquently put it.

I only mention the law that the US has endorsed by being a signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture

Your name on TV has "law" in it so I thought you may understand that.

If on the other hand you are saying it is to be condoned by the USA then by all means condone it ...openly

Do not on the one hand hang Japanese soldiers for doing it then turn around & claim it is justifiable in the cases you choose to justify.

Kow Jai Mai?

My comment was not in response to your post. I condone enhanced interrogation techniques that results in saving lives. What Japan did is not comparable.

So many seek to condemn that which they do not understand. Your sarcasm aside, I understand that you wish to criticize Americans for the methods used to stop a mass murderer. The men that were interrogated by the U.S. that lead to Bin Laden's demise admitted to being complicit in various acts of terrorism. Were the U.S. soldiers tortured by the Japanese complicit in various acts of terrorism? As you know, or should know, there simply is no comparison.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Obama watched Bin Laden die on live video

Follow this link:

[Mario2008]

Washington Post:

U.S. cautious on releasing proof of bin Laden’s death

By Craig Whitlock

and William Wan, Published: May 2

U.S. personnel washed, wrapped and prayed over the body of Osama bin Laden

before dumping it off an aircraft carrier and into the Arabian Sea. But even as

the Obama administration worked to avoid offending Muslim sensibilities over the

manner of bin Laden’s burial, it stopped short of releasing visual or forensic

proof that he had, in fact, been killed.

Continues here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/bin_ladens_secret_sea_burial_adds_to_the_mystery_of_his_life/2011/05/02/AF4uEPZF_story.html?hpid=z2

[venturalaw]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

was that directed at me?

There are many things that I love about America, not least musical or literary genii such as Armstrong or Hemingway. I certainly don't hate the USA, its people or its success.

Neither do I pity anybody who would torture another human being. Torture doesn't even work as people who are tortured will say anything to make it stop.

Is it really that you are "...forced to level the playing field.." ? because to many it looks like you risk becoming the same as what you despise.

No, my comment was not meant for you. Level the playing field refers to using enhanced interrogation techniques against an enemy that has absolutely no scruples (terrorists). Therefore I do not accept the charge that Americans are becoming the enemy. To paraphrase another poster, we do not fly planes into buildings and strap bombs onto children to target the innocent.

Edited May 3, 2011 by venturalaw

[Wallaby]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

Is your post directed at my post?

The scum that I pity includes an aussie that has been kept in prison and tortured, found to have had nothing to do with terrorism and has received compensation. So now you refer to innocents as scum. Well that's lovely.

http://www.smh.com.a...0212-1aran.html

This is where torture advocates fail. It's all well and good to think that anyone tortured is guilty and is scum but the reality is that innocent people are tortured, and sometimes they are tortured because of information gained from others that have been tortured.

I don't hate america. It's freedom and unparalleled success, as you put it, are of no concern to me, I have never been there nor wish to go there. How grandiose of you to proclaim your country the be all and end all. Not everyone wants the same freedoms and what you call success. I certainly don't.

I prefer to live in my country where there aren't the freedoms you have. Too much freedom has too many downsides. Unparalleled sucesses? Well I suppose that depends on what you define as success, it's all subjective. If you are happy with what you have in america and consider it a success then I'm happy for you. I prefer my country, with the good and the bad, and consider it a success. Of course there can always be better but to me, becoming like america is not what I would consider my country becoming a success.

How do you justify translating what I said regarding "scum" that tortures Americans to include innocent Aussies who have been tortured? Please explain.

"Not everyone wants" freedom? Ok. Yes, some wish to have government guarantees spanning from cradle to grave - thereby avoiding responsibility and self-reliance. If you fit into that category, good for you. America isn't, or at least wasn't, the type of country that supported your belief system. Unfortunately however, it is definitely heading in that direction (less freedoms) under its current regime.

I used innocent aussies as a reference, many nationalities have been tortured, by both american and al quaeda.

How do you get government guarantees and avoiding responsibilities out of my statement that not everyone wants the freedoms?

We don't have a constitutional right to free speech. I think that is a good thing as it stops idiots burning bibles, korans etc. Speeches inciting hatred is not allowed. Our freedom of speach is allowed under law but it is not in the constitution so it can be changed by legislation when morons go too far.

We don't have a right to bear arms, that too I think is a good thing.

Our government regulates many large businesses because they don't seem to be able to be trusted. I think that has been good for our country. We pay a very minor amount every year for Medicare that provides for free hospital treatment for those that cannot afford private hospital. That is the best thing our country has, in my opinion.

Of course there are things I don't like such as the govt giving $5k to every woman for every child, partial refunds for child care. Selling off public assets like railway lines and electricity which has caused enourmous price rises.

The list can go on for these things but that has nothing to do with self reliance and responsibility.

I also don't think it can really be said that any country has 'unparalleled success'. Everyone's idea of success is different.

I also consider that many countries cannot live with the freedom the US citizens have, some countries have a population that is far too diverse in their beliefs for such things.

[Mario2008]

How did U.S. confirm the body was bin Laden's?

By Madison Park and Sabriya Rice, CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/02/bin.laden.body.id/index.html?hpt=T2

[Ulysses G.]

At least Russia Today had the guts to allow someone to ask the questions

of all the MSM channels

Russia does not have the guts to allow anyone to ask questions about their own corrupt system, but are quite happy to give attention to some loon that is full of conspiracy theories about other countries.

[bf2002]

If this does turn out to be his body then I think that the crap is soon going to hit the fan big style. There was talk last week that Al Qaueda had a nuclear bomb hidden in Europe ready to go if they did kill or capture bin Laden. Worrying times indeed.

Who cares what they say!

It's this type of fear that they are looking for.

Just like a verbally abusive bully, if you don't stand up for yourself, that's when they attack.

Now they know if they try anything, they will be hunted down and shot like the animals they are, so they can explain to their maker their evil murders of 100s, thousands, or more.

I'm sure his being such an insult and black sheep to his family, they may not exactly be sad this arse is gone. I won't dance on his grave, but will say if he didn't repent am sure he'll be going to a very hot place soon.

[elcent]

How did U.S. confirm the body was bin Laden's?

By Madison Park and Sabriya Rice, CNN

http://edition.cnn.c...dex.html?hpt=T2

maybe Obama killed 2 dead horses at once. Osama and America (he was sworn in with his hands on the Quran?)

... a new chance for democracy may be arising?

Where's Kahn?

[Wallaby]

Obama wasn't certain Bin Laden was in the compound. Quite a risk to take if he wasn't actually there.

[BlackJack]

I am sorry but no one will convince me that a black op was done

Osama was shot in the head

and then buried at sea

within 24 hours

come on people -

you dont hunt down the most wanted man in history and then do the above

its a fairy tale

THINK

what happened when Saddam was found

pictures

video

trials

even a video of the hanging

PLUS pictures of his dead sons in living colour all shot up

This time Ossama

empty room

some blood on the floor

body gone

sea burial

come on this is the the biggest con yet

Edited May 3, 2011 by BlackJack