Rubber Trees

[cobbler]

We had a bullshit story like that getting around Bangsaphan . So everybody got excited and cleared a heap of land in the national park that they put yang trees on 4 or 5 or 20 years earlier.Thinking it was all going to become torbor5 soon.

Well.....Soon came and went and nothing happened.

Some council guys went around talking to farmers.Said cough bla bullshit yes er arr fart piss.

Then after that nothing happened.Turns out its all just another way Thai local gov make money from corruption. They allocate x amount of money to do a job. Then run around looking important. Spend 1 3rd of the money and put the rest in there pocket.

5 or 6 years later same shit will happen again.only time land will change deed title is is there is a big pollitition wanting to make a lot of his land chanorte.Then all the rest of the land in that area can be changed too. Chork dee

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[Mosha]

Unless it's lost in translation. Wife says Tor Bor 5 land no longer exists

Hmmm

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About 5 years ago the orbortor stopped collecting the land tax on tor bor 5. They said the land was being reassessed. Well yesterday we went to the office after Sopha heard a Kamnam friend talking about this new government scheme. When she went she was told Tor bor 5 was cancelled.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Mosha

[imokg2g]

Not sure about Tor Bor 5 but in our area they are trying to clean up the land title issues and give everyone Chanotes. I am not holding my breath on it but it would be very nice if it happens.

What area is that? I just spoke to 'the boss' who has heard the same - "but not in our area (Bueng Kan)"

[thaiguzzi]

Kee Yang, 42.61 baht per kg, yesterday at auction, Udon.

[Dakling]

Not sure about Tor Bor 5 but in our area they are trying to clean up the land title issues and give everyone Chanotes. I am not holding my breath on it but it would be very nice if it happens.

What area is that? I just spoke to 'the boss' who has heard the same - "but not in our area (Bueng Kan)"

We are in Sisaket, about 45 km SE of the city.

Some of the villages have already been done out our way, MIL's house done within the last year, unfortunately she got a Sor Por Kor. Farmland will likely be very slow to be done. Still some debate on if they will convert to Sor Por Kor or Chanote but everyone here is fighting for Chanote.

On another note, having some minor flooding issues on one of our pieces of land, water is only about ankle deep on most of it and the trees are slightly elevated so very few have standing water against them. Ground is very saturated though, it is difficult to walk without sinking to your knees in the mud. Anyone know how long 2 year old trees can handle this? Most still look fine but a few have some yellowed and wilted leaves.

thx

[thaiguzzi]

Those trees in waterlogged ground will not die, but they will never grow fully in normal time. I have 20 - 30 8 year old trees in a similar situation, bottom of two slopes, canopy is ok, but trunks are very small 4 year old trees have a bigger diameter. Not a lot you can do.

Mike.

[Mosha]

OK, my wife can't remember where she got this snippet from. (Attention span of a goldfish).

Chanote land with trees 7 years or older, will be taxed at 500 Baht/rai/annum. Which may be why the pui yais have being gathering info.

[Dakling]

Those trees in waterlogged ground will not die, but they will never grow fully in normal time. I have 20 - 30 8 year old trees in a similar situation, bottom of two slopes, canopy is ok, but trunks are very small 4 year old trees have a bigger diameter. Not a lot you can do.

Mike.

It is not normally this bad, things in Sisaket are pretty wet this year. The field had only been flooded for about 1 week, the standing water is gone but the ground is still saturated. I am hoping that they recover but I don't doubt that this will slow their development somewhat. Our other farm is higher and drier and the trees there look about 6 months to a year ahead of the trees on the farm that flooded.

[shaggy1969]

Hi there to all you rubber farmers.

Maybe you guys could help us out with a problem with our trees?

Our trees are in their forth year now and we are still total novices,in fact most of the rubber farmers are also new to the rubber game.I think that the eldest tree in our area is only 10 years old.

Thursday when talking with the Missus she said that she had been up to the farm and noticed that there was something wrong with the trees.I asked her if she could send me some photos (I'm working overseas)

I am not sure if you can make out from the photos but the leaves seem very withered and some have yellow pots on them.

The trees were given fertilizer 8 weeks ago and plowed to remove as much weed as possible,since then there has been quite some heavy down pours.

What is causing this and do any of you know how to cure it?

I apologise if this subject has already been covered.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Kind regards

Shaggy

P.s outstanding work with this thread

[gregj69]

Hi there to all you rubber farmers.

Maybe you guys could help us out with a problem with our trees?

Our trees are in their forth year now and we are still total novices,in fact most of the rubber farmers are also new to the rubber game.I think that the eldest tree in our area is only 10 years old.

Thursday when talking with the Missus she said that she had been up to the farm and noticed that there was something wrong with the trees.I asked her if she could send me some photos (I'm working overseas)

1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg

5.jpg6.jpgyellow spot.jpg

I am not sure if you can make out from the photos but the leaves seem very withered and some have yellow pots on them.

The trees were given fertilizer 8 weeks ago and plowed to remove as much weed as possible,since then there has been quite some heavy down pours.

What is causing this and do any of you know how to cure it?

I apologise if this subject has already been covered.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Kind regards

Shaggy

P.s outstanding work with this thread

I am no expert but you have to remember that the roots go out as far as the canopy. It could be possible you have plowed up a lot of the finer roots which take in most of the water and nutrients. with a lot of rain this could have caused some form of mould or root rot. You may have also burnt the cut roots with raw fertilizer. have a word to the guys where you buy the fertilizer and then try another shop for confirmation. They may be able to help.

Cheers

Greg

Edited October 5, 2013 by gregj69

[shaggy1969]

I am no expert but you have to remember that the roots go out as far as the canopy. It could be possible you have plowed up a lot of the finer roots which take in most of the water and nutrients. with a lot of rain this could have caused some form of mould or root rot. You may have also burnt the cut roots with raw fertilizer. have a word to the guys where you buy the fertilizer and then try another shop for confirmation. They may be able to help.

Cheers

Greg

Thank you for your input Greg.

That could well be a possibility,if so then we were ill informed as to whether we could plow or not.If it would cause problems for the roots was actually one of the questions that we asked at the time.

We were told that because of the age of the trees and that we were using a hand operated tractor (iron buffalo) that the blades wouldn't cause a problem because we would only be turning the top surface over.

If the roots are damaged,will it cause lasting damage to the growth of the trees and is there something that we could do to help remedy the problem and speeden up the recovery?

[kwonitoy]

At the age and size they are, give up the plowing. But you haven't done any serious damage either so don't sweat it. Leave them alone and they'll be fine.

If you're getting yellowish leaves this time of year it usually means they've been getting too much water, might be in a lowish spot where water sits or in a heavier clay type soil that holds the water.

Don't worry, they look like nice trees and in three months everyone will be praying for rain.

Ken

[thaiguzzi]

At the age and size they are, give up the plowing. But you haven't done any serious damage either so don't sweat it. Leave them alone and they'll be fine.

If you're getting yellowish leaves this time of year it usually means they've been getting too much water, might be in a lowish spot where water sits or in a heavier clay type soil that holds the water.

Don't worry, they look like nice trees and in three months everyone will be praying for rain.

Ken

+1.

Stick to grass cutting from now on. We stop ploughing age 3 onwards. If you only have access to an "iron buffalo", you can buy an attachment for the front that cuts grass, about 70-80 cms wide. hard work though. I have one for sale c/w clutch/belt tensioner for 3000 baht ready to go. Sold the Ford a couple of years ago, iron Buffalo and walk behind mowers too much like REAL HARD work; now replaced with a little KRT 140 Kubota, works a treat.

[shaggy1969]

At the age and size they are, give up the plowing. But you haven't done any serious damage either so don't sweat it. Leave them alone and they'll be fine.

If you're getting yellowish leaves this time of year it usually means they've been getting too much water, might be in a lowish spot where water sits or in a heavier clay type soil that holds the water.

Don't worry, they look like nice trees and in three months everyone will be praying for rain.

Ken

+1.

Stick to grass cutting from now on. We stop ploughing age 3 onwards. If you only have access to an "iron buffalo", you can buy an attachment for the front that cuts grass, about 70-80 cms wide. hard work though. I have one for sale c/w clutch/belt tensioner for 3000 baht ready to go. Sold the Ford a couple of years ago, iron Buffalo and walk behind mowers too much like REAL HARD work; now replaced with a little KRT 140 Kubota, works a treat.

Thank you very much for your replies gents,much appreciated.

I think that the idea for using the tractor was to try and turn the fertilizer into the ground before the rains came and washed it away.

But I can understand what you mean about damaging the roots with the blades.

I know what you mean about the Iron buffalo being hard work,I had a go with one a couple of months back,definitely need hydraulic cluthes fitting to them.

After that my respect for farmers that use one mulitiplied enormously.The young Thai man that did our ground was 5 foot nothing and skinny as a rake,but he threw that tractor around like a rag doll.

[thaiguzzi]

Don't throw fertiliser, dig it in. Look where the canopy finishes, that is where the hole goes. 2 holes per tree. One team generally is one man with a hoe, one hit and pull back, there is the hole, one woman with a bucket and mug/cup of fertilser, pours it in, covers up the hole with her foot. Once they've got it sorted, goes remarkably quickly. We did 38 rai last week, 30 bags, 3 teams of 2 people in one day.

[thoregeir]

I have seen that they practice it, but I have my doubts whether it is more effective. To cut small roots and it takes time before they can make use of it. plants do not move on to eat.

[Dakling]

Don't throw fertiliser, dig it in. Look where the canopy finishes, that is where the hole goes. 2 holes per tree. One team generally is one man with a hoe, one hit and pull back, there is the hole, one woman with a bucket and mug/cup of fertilser, pours it in, covers up the hole with her foot. Once they've got it sorted, goes remarkably quickly. We did 38 rai last week, 30 bags, 3 teams of 2 people in one day.

Wow 38 rai in one day with only 6 people. You have a good crew.

We only get about 1/2 that done in a day with 6 people, granted crew is all family and lunch break is a 2+ hour party. We had 6 people working and we pay wages by the rai so it doesn't really mater how long they take. They take long breaks in the aft. when sun is at its worst.

Last time I tried to help I was doing the bucket job you describe and I only lasted about 2 hrs before I went down with mild heat exhaustion.

[thaiguzzi]

Actually, out of 6 people we only had 2 blokes that day, my missus was the third bloke with a hoe! She's tiny but Christ can she graft!

Digging holes for fertilizer is LESS wasteful than throwing. It is also the way you are taught at the govnt run rubber schools. This end-of-rainy-season fertilizer session set me back 45k, so i don't like waste. Still got 26 rai to go, but the rains have gone up here, so have to wait for hopefully one more good rain.

[cobbler]

Yes its good to do that.However.Our Myanma workers just throw it around on the flat land farm.Seems fine as long as we dont get a big piss down of rain straight after.

Mountain farm is different though.Risk is too high of it all being washed away.So we use the hole method.

Pui...fertilizer we use desolves very quickly so never had a loss on the flat.

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[utr]

Rubber may increase by 17% to reach 310 us cents per kg by end 2013

i came across this interesting article by bloomberg.

http://globalrubbermarkets.com/12895/rubber-price-may-reach-310-us-centskg-december-2013.html

[thaiguzzi]

Lets hope so. Please. Sold yesterday at auction, kee yang, Udon, 39.00 baht per kg. Excellent production due to the weather, just a piss poor kg price.

Cobbler - yes flat land fertilizer thrown is fine if you don't get a huge downpour, but on any slope you are just pouring the fertilizer and money literally down the toilet.

Mike.

[thaiguzzi]

Just read that report. Might be ok for people who can stockpile sheet, but for us, still on kee yang and a cutting season that finishes in early Feb. there is only really Dec-Jan where we will get that increase. A 50% increase would be more like it; at 60 baht per kg for kee yang we may actually earn some proper money again.

Mike.

[moench]

I have may a stupid question

1good 7 year old rubber tree cane make in one month how much income ?

What is the weight of one shed ,how many lit.of rubber liquid need for one shed and how many liquid I get from one tree in 1 month ,if I collect for example 30 day non stop?

I have some thousand of tree and not only one and have 4 more years to go

[utr]

Thaiguzzie wrote: ... "Sold yesterday at auction, kee yang, Udon, 39.00 baht per kg." ...

just to be sure of what kee yang is, is it latex with some acid added then left to collect in the cups on the trees over several days and taps, then just sold after removing it from the cups?

could you tell me where is the auction is held in udon?

we're out kut chap way and our local shop price was only 34 baht per kg yesterday. so difference on about 3,000kgs per month is about 15,000 baht and if the auction place is not too far away may get the in-laws to consider taking our and their latex there instead.

thanks

Bert

[thaiguzzi]

Bert,

it's all in previous posts. Sounds like you are selling on the "gate", ie at your farm door, this price is always 3-4 baht less per kg than at local auctions. However, they are weighing and paying out immediately, whereas auctions, your product is delivered the day BEFORE weighing and paying out, so you lose a few kgs water content overnight, but not a lot if you do your formic correctly. I'm in Ampur Ban Dung and there are at least 3 auctions fortnightly within 40 kms. i'm sure if you ask around where you are there will be at least one. They are fortnightly and so you should have 2 weeks worth of cup rubber - as you say congealed in the cup. This is our 3rd season and we have only ever sold at auction, i think it is the best way if selling kee yang.

Mike.

[utr]

thanks for your reply mike.

yes, we take it to a small local shop which does pay out on the spot for our latex. convenient but looks like a bit expensive.

for the moment i'll leave it to the workers to decide where to sell the latex rather than upset the applecart, but will mention the idea of putting it in the auction.

cheers bert

[TappingShade]

I agree. There is a drawback too. I think we should follow Vietnam. They also tap in rainy season. But we also need technique and experience to do so. I saw one plantation try to do and the bark get wet even with rain guard.

They've used rain guards in India for some time and there were some good reviews.... Perhaps some more research is needed as we're in the same predicament - not enough rain to start tapping, then too much rain to prevent tapping....

Gents

It been a while that i wrote, but have kept a close eye on this blog. We are a medium size (stratin) operation on Phitsanulok with about 100 rai planted. I call that medium as i have seen comments about 20 rai and also about 1000 rai.

I read with interest this latest thread about "rain hoods" and use of these in india.Indeed more research is required in suitabilty and cost to see if it warrents investing in them. I believe that with we could do that together by grouping our resources to have this done/or do it ourselves.

I am not yet, trees are only 1 year old, but believe that we need to make the best use of our resources, our trees in this instance, to sustain our "(partial)retirement fund".

I am not sure how we could group to make this happen, as some of us are still gainfully employed in foreign lands. But i would be interested to have our farmer, read UIL, attend and support an effort.

The prices are nothing to wright home about, so we need to up the anual production in stead.

I am keen to find out if there is support for something like this "cooperation".

Wim

We have been using Tapping Shade rainguards here in the south for 3 years now and it has helped for 70% of the time, the other 30% was windy, stormy and smoggy weather. all in all a good investment, which really had been taught through. The adhesive is modified bitumen with no chemicals added to seal the bark, really effective especially when the bark of the tree is not even. one set has 2 shades, the upper part is attached with the adhesive and the lower part not, so it is re-usable after 1 year tapping, when we change tapping sides, or lower the shades. The only downside when branches fall down from above the shade tends to break, but we got them exchanged for free, so that was not an issue. You can google or facebook search for pics and vids. tapping shade is the name. cheers

[scotbeve]

I agree. There is a drawback too. I think we should follow Vietnam. They also tap in rainy season. But we also need technique and experience to do so. I saw one plantation try to do and the bark get wet even with rain guard.

They've used rain guards in India for some time and there were some good reviews.... Perhaps some more research is needed as we're in the same predicament - not enough rain to start tapping, then too much rain to prevent tapping....

Gents

It been a while that i wrote, but have kept a close eye on this blog. We are a medium size (stratin) operation on Phitsanulok with about 100 rai planted. I call that medium as i have seen comments about 20 rai and also about 1000 rai.

I read with interest this latest thread about "rain hoods" and use of these in india.Indeed more research is required in suitabilty and cost to see if it warrents investing in them. I believe that with we could do that together by grouping our resources to have this done/or do it ourselves.

I am not yet, trees are only 1 year old, but believe that we need to make the best use of our resources, our trees in this instance, to sustain our "(partial)retirement fund".

I am not sure how we could group to make this happen, as some of us are still gainfully employed in foreign lands. But i would be interested to have our farmer, read UIL, attend and support an effort.

The prices are nothing to wright home about, so we need to up the anual production in stead.

I am keen to find out if there is support for something like this "cooperation".

Wim

We have been using Tapping Shade rainguards here in the south for 3 years now and it has helped for 70% of the time, the other 30% was windy, stormy and smoggy weather. all in all a good investment, which really had been taught through. The adhesive is modified bitumen with no chemicals added to seal the bark, really effective especially when the bark of the tree is not even. one set has 2 shades, the upper part is attached with the adhesive and the lower part not, so it is re-usable after 1 year tapping, when we change tapping sides, or lower the shades. The only downside when branches fall down from above the shade tends to break, but we got them exchanged for free, so that was not an issue. You can google or facebook search for pics and vids. tapping shade is the name. cheers

Thanks for the info Tapping! I'd really like to try something like these because for the past 2 years, the output has been affected by the rain way too often.

[TappingShade]

Thanks for the info Tapping! I'd really like to try something like these because for the past 2 years, the output has been affected by the rain way too often.

You're welcome Scotbeve, they send samples free to try with english manuals. if you are Thai speaking or else your family can contact them directly on facebook just search Tapping Shade and you'll find their page, if not you can pm me for help. Cheers

[scotbeve]

Thanks for the info Tapping! I'd really like to try something like these because for the past 2 years, the output has been affected by the rain way too often.

You're welcome Scotbeve, they send samples free to try with english manuals. if you are Thai speaking or else your family can contact them directly on facebook just search Tapping Shade and you'll find their page, if not you can pm me for help. Cheers

Cheers again, yep, found the site no probs and sent the info off to our manager for his perusal.