Avoiding Atm Charges

[Utley]

A friend recently told me that you could avoid the 150 THB surcharge the Thai banks charge to use a foreign debit card at an ATM machine by going into the bank itself and asking the teller to perform the transaction.

Can anyone comment as to the credibility of this statement?

[Shurup]

There was a topic on this subject just recently.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/466920-what-atmx-give-25000-thb-in-one-withdrawl/

People said that some banks do that, some don't.

Better alternative is to go to AEON atm. They don't charge fee (as it seems) and you can withdraw up to 40,000 at a time.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/465987-aeon-atms-are-charging-150-baht/

[CharlieH]

There was a topic on this subject just recently.

http://www.thaivisa....-one-withdrawl/

People said that some banks do that, some don't.

Better alternative is to go to AEON atm. They don't charge fee (as it seems) and you can withdraw up to 40,000 at a time.

http://www.thaivisa....rging-150-baht/

You can withdraw without fee at AEON thats correct, BUT the amount is limited by your card issuer's daily limit and that may not be 40k.

[4evermaat]

There was a topic on this subject just recently.

http://www.thaivisa....-one-withdrawl/

People said that some banks do that, some don't.

Better alternative is to go to AEON atm. They don't charge fee (as it seems) and you can withdraw up to 40,000 at a time.

http://www.thaivisa....rging-150-baht/

You can withdraw without fee at AEON thats correct, BUT the amount is limited by your card issuer's daily limit and that may not be 40k.

You can call your card issuer and request a one-time daily limit increase, as needed.

Aeon atm is the easiest choice, if you know where they are. If you must go inside bank, Bangkok Bank is usually a good choice. Some of the smaller locations may not have the machine to do it, and the teller will direct you to the location that does it. Other banks may do it, but it depends on the competency of the staff. But rather than admit that they do not know and ask a senior person, they "save face" and direct you to atm.

[tomallison]

There was a topic on this subject just recently.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/466920-what-atmx-give-25000-thb-in-one-withdrawl/

People said that some banks do that, some don't.

Better alternative is to go to AEON atm. They don't charge fee (as it seems) and you can withdraw up to 40,000 at a time.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/465987-aeon-atms-are-charging-150-baht/

AEON atm, I am sure is good. But to use this facility depends very much on your location. For me, the nearest AEON atm is many hundreds of K.M.s away. I have used over the counter withdrawels in the past and find Bangkok Bank branches give the best service, with no limit on the amount you require.

[Shurup]

AEON atm, I am sure is good. But to use this facility depends very much on your location. For me, the nearest AEON atm is many hundreds of K.M.s away. I have used over the counter withdrawels in the past and find Bangkok Bank branches give the best service, with no limit on the amount you require.

Do you have to have an account with Bangkok Bank to do that?

[alantheembalmer]

AEON atm, I am sure is good. But to use this facility depends very much on your location. For me, the nearest AEON atm is many hundreds of K.M.s away. I have used over the counter withdrawels in the past and find Bangkok Bank branches give the best service, with no limit on the amount you require.

Do you have to have an account with Bangkok Bank to do that?

No, you don't.

I live in Bangkok and have used many different banks to withdraw money "over the counter", without any charge. The best thing to do is to go to the nearest desk in the bank, not to the teller, and normally someone there will help you out. On one or two occasions they did not know what I wanted, but on the whole it works very well.

[jfchandler]

Yes, the process in branch you're describing is called a "counter withdrawal".

In theory, any Thai bank should be able and willing to do them. In reality, it varies from branch to branch and staff to staff, probably for the reasons mentioned above.

Thai banks don't charge the 150 baht fee for counter withdrawals... But they will require you to bring and show your passport...

And, your home bank may well charge you a fee for doing a foreign transaction, the same if they charge for foreign ATM withdrawals...

The other issue to be aware of is what exchange rate the Thai bank doing the counter withdrawal is giving you... Some Thai banks, SCB among them, reportedly use a lower exchange rate for counter withdrawals compared to what you'd get from a regular ATM withdrawal...where the rates are set by the MC and VISA card networks, not the local bank.

[4evermaat]

AEON atm, I am sure is good. But to use this facility depends very much on your location. For me, the nearest AEON atm is many hundreds of K.M.s away. I have used over the counter withdrawels in the past and find Bangkok Bank branches give the best service, with no limit on the amount you require.

Do you have to have an account with Bangkok Bank to do that?

No, you don't.

I live in Bangkok and have used many different banks to withdraw money "over the counter", without any charge. The best thing to do is to go to the nearest desk in the bank, not to the teller, and normally someone there will help you out. On one or two occasions they did not know what I wanted, but on the whole it works very well.

The bank counter withdraw usually gives you the same rate as the atm would give you, known as the TT rate on their official websites, or on this handy website that aggregates all the popular banks. http://bankexchanger...et/default.aspx I check this website almost every time before I go to the ATM/exchange so i know exactly how much to expect. AEON typically beats the best rate by up to 20 satang or so (0.20 baht). but on average 4-8 satang.

If you find that the branch has no clue what you want, try to get their business card. it should have the name and address of the bank and the branch #. you may contact bangkok bank customer service and request that they send your request directly to the bank and they can inform you of exactly who to talk to the next time you go.

Or just hop down to the next closest branch to see if they do it. There is not too many that don't, especially in a tourist area or "in town". Any "mall" location should definetly do it.

Edited May 20, 2011 by 4evermaat

[JosephMcCann]

No, you don't.

I live in Bangkok and have used many different banks to withdraw money "over the counter", without any charge. The best thing to do is to go to the nearest desk in the bank, not to the teller, and normally someone there will help you out. On one or two occasions they did not know what I wanted, but on the whole it works very well.

Would I still need a thai bank account to do this?

This is very interesting as I bank with RBS and they give a very low daily limit of 250GBP which considering my rent is almost double that becomes a pain when the rent is due.

Also if I could withdraw more from this account over the counter in a thai bank - what would i need to ask? I sort of thought this was possible as my landlord said it was however I went to a few and they had no idea what I meant. If you could tell me what I'm asking for maybe that might help

Cheers

[4evermaat]

No, you don't.

I live in Bangkok and have used many different banks to withdraw money "over the counter", without any charge. The best thing to do is to go to the nearest desk in the bank, not to the teller, and normally someone there will help you out. On one or two occasions they did not know what I wanted, but on the whole it works very well.

Would I still need a thai bank account to do this?

This is very interesting as I bank with RBS and they give a very low daily limit of 250GBP which considering my rent is almost double that becomes a pain when the rent is due.

Also if I could withdraw more from this account over the counter in a thai bank - what would i need to ask? I sort of thought this was possible as my landlord said it was however I went to a few and they had no idea what I meant. If you could tell me what I'm asking for maybe that might help

Cheers;

I think you quoted the wrong person, but

1) No, you do not need to have an account with the bank to do an over the counter cash advance from debit card/credit card. This is a free service provided you have available funds on your card + your original passport.

2) You can call your bank and request a temporary limit increase to withdraw more money 1 time. Then your only limitation would be the ATMs limit. Make sure you ask if the bank counter withdraw limit counts towards your PURCHASE daily limit or ATM daily limit. If you want to be safe, increase both of them. Temporary limit increases are usually good for 24 hours or midnight the SAME/Next day. Confirm this also. If you need your limit increased permanently, you should be able to fax or email a permanent limit increase. That would solve your problem in the long run. If you have a cool bank, this should not be a problem.

Edited May 28, 2011 by 4evermaat

[tomallison]

No, you don't.

I live in Bangkok and have used many different banks to withdraw money "over the counter", without any charge. The best thing to do is to go to the nearest desk in the bank, not to the teller, and normally someone there will help you out. On one or two occasions they did not know what I wanted, but on the whole it works very well.

Would I still need a thai bank account to do this?

This is very interesting as I bank with RBS and they give a very low daily limit of 250GBP which considering my rent is almost double that becomes a pain when the rent is due.

Also if I could withdraw more from this account over the counter in a thai bank - what would i need to ask? I sort of thought this was possible as my landlord said it was however I went to a few and they had no idea what I meant. If you could tell me what I'm asking for maybe that might help

Cheers;

I think you quoted the wrong person, but

1) No, you do not need to have an account with the bank to do an over the counter cash advance from debit card/credit card. This is a free service provided you have available funds on your card + your original passport.

2) You can call your bank and request a temporary limit increase to withdraw more money 1 time. Then your only limitation would be the ATMs limit. Make sure you ask if the bank counter withdraw limit counts towards your PURCHASE daily limit or ATM daily limit. If you want to be safe, increase both of them. Temporary limit increases are usually good for 24 hours or midnight the SAME/Next day. Confirm this also. If you need your limit increased permanently, you should be able to fax or email a permanent limit increase. That would solve your problem in the long run. If you have a cool bank, this should not be a problem.

When Thai ATM charges were first introduced I asked my Building Society, Nationwide, with whom I have a Visa debit card, if they could increase my daily ATM withdrawel amount (currently 300 pounds). They replisd that they could not do this. Maybe others do. I now completely avoid using this card for ATM withdrawels in Thailand.

[Fookhaht]

Do a search on Aeon here on Thai Visa. Some serious problems have surfaced with this financial institution's servicing of ATM customers.

[4evermaat]

When Thai ATM charges were first introduced I asked my Building Society, Nationwide, with whom I have a Visa debit card, if they could increase my daily ATM withdrawel amount (currently 300 pounds). They replisd that they could not do this. Maybe others do. I now completely avoid using this card for ATM withdrawels in Thailand.

My experience has been that military-affiliated or federal/state gov't affiliated banks/credit unions are much more flexible with this. Or choose a bank that specializes in being overseas-friendly.

The only other workaround is opening local bank account and doing transfers there; preferibly Bangkok bank as they allow local ACH/ETF/internet transfers from certain countries and its usually cheaper than wire/Swift for smaller amounts.

I guess Paypal also, but that's more of a last resort if you're using it exclusively for money transfers. But at least you could fund with a credit card.

Do a search on Aeon here on Thai Visa. Some serious problems have surfaced with this financial institution's servicing of ATM customers.

Unless something changed very recently (about 3 days ago), AEON remains the best value for foreigners wanting to withdraw from ATM. No 150 baht fee, 40,000 baht per transaction withdraw limit, and the visa/mc exchange rate which usually beats the best thai bank exchange rate by at least 5 satang. Of course, the locations of the ATM are limited. They usually have them at all the Centrals, major shopping malls, and another poster said Big C / Carrefour usually have one somewhere. Best to check the Aeon website.

Some of their newer machines may not accept certain foreign atm cards, but you would only know that by going and seeing for yourself. I had this happen ONCE @ Rama II in Bangkok. I went to the big c across the street and the Aeon atm machine there processed the transaction with no problem.

Edited May 28, 2011 by 4evermaat

[jfchandler]

1) No, you do not need to have an account with the bank to do an over the counter cash advance from debit card/credit card. This is a free service provided you have available funds on your card + your original passport.

I'd be careful about talking about using credit cards for counter withdrawals when traveling abroad...

There are a couple of major downsides with using credit cards for that purpose.... One is, typically, the user will be paying interest on the withdrawn funds from the first date they are withdrawn until whenever the amount is repaid in full. Typically no 30 or similar day grace period on what the credit card company will consider a cash advance against your account.

Second, credit card cash advances, depending on the card issuer, often carry an especially high interest rate, often higher than the rate for regular purchases... And at least for U.S. issued cards, also generally will have a flat fee surcharge of 3% or more, and then potentially a foreign currency fee of 3% or more as well... All in all, using a credit card for a counter withdrawal abroad can get to be a very expensive way of pulling funds.

In contrast, using a debit card won't carry any interest charge, because the funds are already in your account. There's usually no transaction fee for a counter withdrawal using a debit card from your home bank. There may, however, still be a foreign currency charge -- the same as if you were using the debit card in a foreign ATM -- depending on the policies of your home bank.

Edited May 29, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

Some of their newer machines may not accept certain foreign atm cards, but you would only know that by going and seeing for yourself.

AFAIK, AEON ATMs should accept any VISA or MC logo debit card....

They won't however, access straight ATM cards (no VISA/MC logo) that only have the CIRRUS network affiliation on the reverse side. PLUS network cards should be fine.

There are times when a particular machine may be out of service/non-functioning..... And people may think it's having a problem with their card, when in fact the ATM is just not working at that time.

[electau]

Thai banks may not charge you directly for an over the counter transaction but the charge may appear on your home bank account monthly statement under "fees and charges"

In Australia banks charge a fee of $4 for an over the counter withdrawal.

Fees and charges are levied by your home bank, exclusive of any foreign fees charged which are extra ( Thai bank ATM 150THB fee for example.)

[Langsuan Man]

Do a search on Aeon here on Thai Visa. Some serious problems have surfaced with this financial institution's servicing of ATM customers.

Do a search and you will find that there have been minor problems reported here at Thai visa, but the vast majority of us who use AEON ATM's are very happy with the service and reliability of the machines

The fact that they are many times empty is testament to that

For those who don't live near an AEON ATM then they are not a solution for you

[electau]

This may be a way of avoiding bank the Thai Bank ATM fee 150THB.

Some overseas banks may apply a fee for withdrawals. This will be brought to your attention before you proceed with the transaction and can be avoided by using one of our Global ATM Alliance partner ATMs.

Source Westpac Banking Corporation.

[55Jay]

Does anyone know for sure if normal ATM cards (without MC/Visa logos) are taken at AEON?

Mine is a Credit Union ATM card (from the US) with PLUS, COOP and INTERLINK logos on the back. There is no CIRRUS logo on the back, and JF Chandler indicated CIRRUS was no go but PLUS might be ok.

Geting things organized for a move to LOS and have been reading these banking forums but wanted to clarify the ATM card.

Just applied for a Capitol 1 MC to avoid the 1% foreign currency charge on purchases, plus the other bennies.

Considering a Schwab account(s) for the 150 baht ATM rebates if using a non-AEON atm, but if my current credit union ATM will work and I can access my funds w/o the 150 Baht charge and no Visa/MC 1% tacked on, then no need at this time.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Ha Ha J

[granuaile]

Does anyone know if the various bank branches around Chatuchak will do counter withdrawals...? Specifically thinking about the area around JJ Market and JJ Mall,....

[cloud96]

I finally did this successfully at the Bangkok Bank on Thapae Road in Chiang Mai. I went straight to the desk people. When I said counter withdrawal they had no idea what I was talking about, they tried to direct me to the ATM. I then played dumb and asked them how I could transfer funds from my US account to my Bangkok Bank account. Then one of the other girls understood. She used the term "EDC" and then everyone understood. She walked over to a small machine about the size of a normal credit card processing machine you might find in a shop (i don't know maybe 10 inches long by 6 inches wide and 4 inches tall, ran my card, copied my passport, I signed a receipt, wrote down address and phone number, then she gave me the cash.

Oddly enough she never even tried to deposit my funds into the account. She just gave me the cash. She said I could do this at any bank.

I withdrew 12,000 baht and according to my ING Direct account, this resulted in a debit of $401.46. Dividing this out I get an effective rate of 29.891 baht per dollar

According to XE.com the rate on this day (august 9) was 29.9650000279. It looks like this transaction cost about 30 baht or 0.247%. I'm OK with that.

I'm not sure if ING will charge me money later, because this charge is in the Pending category and when I just realized that when I withdrew money from an AEON ATM earlier, I was charged a 2% foreign transaction fee (a little over $4 on a withdrawal of 203.70, or 6000 baht, equivalent rate of 29.455 baht per dollar on August 1st. The rate on this day according to XE was 29.745. This is about 0.975% before the foreign transaction charge so unless my math is wrong, AEON charged 4 times more than a counter withdrawal.

I'm not positive though as exchange rates change every minute right? I am looking at a daily average. Also consider the difference in amount. To be fair I should perform the same transaction at nearly the same time at the two different locations.

In conclusion, the magic letters are "EDC"

[granuaile]

I finally did this successfully at the Bangkok Bank on Thapae Road in Chiang Mai. I went straight to the desk people. When I said counter withdrawal they had no idea what I was talking about, they tried to direct me to the ATM. I then played dumb and asked them how I could transfer funds from my US account to my Bangkok Bank account. Then one of the other girls understood. She used the term "EDC" and then everyone understood. She walked over to a small machine about the size of a normal credit card processing machine you might find in a shop (i don't know maybe 10 inches long by 6 inches wide and 4 inches tall, ran my card, copied my passport, I signed a receipt, wrote down address and phone number, then she gave me the cash.

...

In conclusion, the magic letters are "EDC"

Thank you for the reply, I was able to do it at the SCB branch on Kampheng Phet by JJ Market, went pretty smoothly, though the first person also indicated the ATM but a Thai friend was with me so we were able to convey what i needed. I will remember "EDC" for future reference. After my unds finished processing at my bank it ended up $6 more than the original amount (perhaps because it processed over the weekend one or the other bank used a different exchange). Will have to compare between Aeon and this method (since I received a new pin already) - last time I used Aeon no ATM charge, but my bank charged $1.50 per transaction... All of that said, the over the counter withdrawal seems like a good option for me.

Again thanks for the feedback

[Pib]

I expect ING will still charge you their foreign transaction fee of 2%, as this type of fee using their debit card applies to any transaction done in a foreign country, whether it's an ATM withdrawal, point of sale, etc....ultimately it's coded as a foriegn transaction of some type.

Below is a cut and paste from ING web site regarding their 2% foreign transaction fee. So I expect the only thing you did avoid (which is good) is the 150 baht fee if using a Thai bank ATM...or just avoid that fee by using an AEON ATM...but even if using the AEON ATM you will still get ING's 2% foreign transaction fee.

Cut and Paste from ING web site:

Foreign Transaction. If you use your Card for a foreign transaction (any transaction made in a foreign currency or that MasterCard® classifies as a cross-border transaction), a charge of 2% of the foreign transaction amount will be applied. If it's in a foreign currency, this will be based on the amount after it's converted to U.S. Dollars by MasterCard. This is in addition to what MasterCard may charge as part of converting the purchase to U.S. Dollars. Please remember to notify us if you are traveling overseas.

[cloud96]

What the hell, now I'll be charged 2% on 12,000 baht? 240 baht that's like 5 meals. All that work for nothing. Why am I even dealing with these jokers? their savings rate isn't even that great anymore. I don't remember them doing that last time I was here, wonder if its a new policy.

I expect ING will still charge you their foreign transaction fee of 2%, as this type of fee using their debit card applies to any transaction done in a foreign country, whether it's an ATM withdrawal, point of sale, etc....ultimately it's coded as a foriegn transaction of some type.

Below is a cut and paste from ING web site regarding their 2% foreign transaction fee. So I expect the only thing you did avoid (which is good) is the 150 baht fee if using a Thai bank ATM...or just avoid that fee by using an AEON ATM...but even if using the AEON ATM you will still get ING's 2% foreign transaction fee.

Cut and Paste from ING web site:

Foreign Transaction. If you use your Card for a foreign transaction (any transaction made in a foreign currency or that MasterCard® classifies as a cross-border transaction), a charge of 2% of the foreign transaction amount will be applied. If it's in a foreign currency, this will be based on the amount after it's converted to U.S. Dollars by MasterCard. This is in addition to what MasterCard may charge as part of converting the purchase to U.S. Dollars. Please remember to notify us if you are traveling overseas.

[Pib]

The Foreign Transaction Fee (previously called a Currency Conversion Fee) has been around for a long time with ATM/Debit/Credit cards. Now whether your bank recently implemented a Foreign Transaction Fee on their ATM/Debit/Credit cards is another story. The fee will be in their disclosure documents and usually pretty easy to find on their web sites. Most banks do charge such a fee; a few don't like Schwab, State Farm, Capital One, etc.

You probably won't see this fee while the recent withdrawal is still in Pending Status (i.e., just hit your accout); but should appear once the transaction settles/Posts to your account in a few days.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Pib

[JimGant]

What the hell, now I'll be charged 2% on 12,000 baht? 240 baht that's like 5 meals.

How about 9 meals? Besides ING's 2%, they'll pass on the MC/Cirrus network foreign transaction fee of 1%. Then, insult to injury, because it is a MasterCard debit card, you'll pay another .5% over that of a Visa debit (or credit) card. So, compared to a Schwab Visa debit card, you're to the bad side by 3.5%.

[JimGant]

A separate line labeled "Foreign Transaction Charge" equal to 2% of the withdrawal will appear in account activity (in addition to the Mastercard 1% fee). ING Direct USA is being bought by Capital One. [As per news July 2011]

From Flyerguide.

I would assume things could only get better after the purchase by Capital One.

[Pib]

The 1% Mastercard fee "may" be part of ING's 2%; I know it worked that way with my USAA debit card that had a 1% foreign transaction fee...the one time I used it the total charge that hit my account was 1%; no other fees...that card now lives in my safe while I use my Visa cards that don't charge a foreign transaction fee....and like you said, a Visa card gives a higher exchange rate than Mastercard. And I hope ING ain't like Bank of America that charges a separate $5 transaction fee on top of their 3% fee. Everyone with ATM/Debit/Credit cards need to read closely the disclosure documents, especially when it comes to using the card in a foreign country.

Edit: I stand corrected on how ING handles the fee as I posted this a second or two after your above post.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Pib

[JimGant]

Cloud96, you said:

This is about 0.975% before the foreign transaction charge so unless my math is wrong, AEON charged 4 times more than a counter withdrawal.

I think you already know, but it's not Aeon charging you -- it's your bank and the MC network.

As far as anyone knows, the Aeon mafia is, to date, only picking on one individual -- or so it's reported....

Just trying to hold down the rumors about Aeon.