Why Thailand’s Sexpat Community Hates Thaksin

[kandahar]

If ever there was a good thread to delete, (not just close) it is this one. It is a slap in the face to HUGE majority of people who come to this forum in good faith and abide by the norms that govern decent behavior, on and off of the forum. ThaiVisa has stooped to a new, appalling and embarrassing low, apparently just to up their numbers.

Jeez, man...really?

How have you or I been slapped in the face? I've been more insulted by many, many other things I've read on TV than this -- while I'm no advocating they be deleted I certainly would have done so before I'd want this stupid OP axed (Have you not seen those copious and gratuitously offensive comments about Thais and Thailand? Or the same about the Farangs who choose to live here? All written by tTV posters that you feel need to be so vigorously protected from insult?)

Think about people in other countries who don't know about this place reading this thing. What kind of opinions are they going to come away with?

Ummm...who cares? Are you postig under your rela name? Does you family, business community or whomever know you post here and likely to come and find out about it?

Social responsibility should outweigh profits but I know it won't. We see it every day, all we know and trust, spinning ever more quickly into the toilet until one day, there will only a few good men and women left standing, overwhelmed by the shouts and glee of those who take joy in shitting on others and reveling in their victory when ignorance and the pursuit of a buck overwhelm common sense and decency.

I have never witnesses an episode such as this, where the leader of a once-decent thing allowed such venom and smears to tarnish the very people who got him to where he is... So, how about you delete this crap and we all agree that TV still doesn't suck? I know it isn't as profitable to be a bastion of social responsibility. But it is a better man that remains true to the beliefs that got him this far. Those beliefs weren't wrong. And in the future, new generations will embrace them again, when they realize what they have created.

Holy smoke! get some perspective! This is just a web-board. Take from it what you can be it entertainment or information or both. But it doesn't matter. It's not one of the pillars of civilization or something.

And just another small cog going down, down, down.......................................

[SteeleJoe]

I also don't like being thrown into a barrel and being labeled a sexpat or sex tourists or pedo or what ever. I am just a normal guy with a family.

I don't either -- fortunately neither of us has been by this opinion piece.

[NovaBlue05]

Absolutely a terrible, inflammatory article, apparently allowed just to get hits on this site. Where did this guy learn to put together a written argument? And why would TV give him the platform to express his ignorance? Today isn't April 1.

If ever there was a good thread to delete, (not just close) it is this one. It is a slap in the face to HUGE majority of people who come to this forum in good faith and abide by the norms that govern decent behavior, on and off of the forum. ThaiVisa has stooped to a new, appalling and embarrassing low, apparently just to up their numbers.

Agree with all of kandahar's points, but especially with the two paragraphs above.

Really don't know what was going through George's mind when he decided to post this trash. I thought Thaivisa was better than this. Apparently not.

Oh come off it.I'm already on record with my view that the article is rather feeble but it also clearly touches a nerve with some (actually quite a lot given the many responses on this thread).The Thaksin hating foreigners (I'm talking about the obsessives not the average joe who doesn't like him much) do tend to be an odd lot by and large.George was quite right to post it.What's been interesting has been the visceral anger of many, clearly suggesting in a rather mediocre piece the author has hit home on a few points.

There is nothing to come off of. I could write a mediocre piece criticizing the TV users who prefer double quilted toilet paper over single ply and it would hit home with some. What would be the point? And why would TV go ahead and let it fly? This thing really is just a sensational attack on the TV members. It infers that sexpats are particular hateful concerning Thaksin and it infers that that group is fairly represented as posters on TV who bash Thaksin and therefore, it infers the argument is valid. Ignorant inferences, I believe.

The whole thing is slanted to give the impression that overall, we TV posters as a group, are the people being referenced in this thing. This whole thing casts aspersions on us all. Think about people in other countries who don't know about this place reading this thing. What kind of opinions are they going to come away with? Where is the wannabe author leading them? Had he been worth his salt, he could have just as easily gone into sexpat territory and interviewed the very people that he assumes are being represented on TV. Of course, he didn't do that. He painted broad strokes with a dark, gloomy, forbidding color. He didn't do the interviews because people who are involved in that trade don't rally give a rat's butt about who is in charge. Money will change hands and all will be well, regardless.

Had this post been made by any normal poster in the normal course of the day or night, it would have been deleted, just as many, many less offensive posts have been and hopefully, will be in the future. I see this whole thing as just another turn for the worse, in all the things most of us have come to see changing with the times. TV is heading towards the fun, fun, fun, meaningless and profitable field of shock and awe and outrageous. Next perhaps we will see an alliance with Fox News and Charlie Sheen.

Social responsibility should outweigh profits but I know it won't. We see it every day, all we know and trust, spinning ever more quickly into the toilet until one day, there will only a few good men and women left standing, overwhelmed by the shouts and glee of those who take joy in shitting on others and reveling in their victory when ignorance and the pursuit of a buck overwhelm common sense and decency.

I have never witnesses an episode such as this, where the leader of a once-decent thing allowed such venom and smears to tarnish the very people who got him to where he is. I never thought I would see it here on this forum. I find it sad that a man that comes from the same generation as myself has allowed his younger staff to influence his decisions in what is right and wrong. Here's the thing, George. There will be some atta boys for you on this. They are wrong. Your staff will continue to push you to push the envelope. They are wrong. They will be wrong until you and I and the rest of the generations that held the line on social responsibility are dead and gone. Only then, when THEY own it all and THEY rule, will it be okay to attack, or to allow others to attack, THEIR own. And at that point, it will be okay, because THEY will be the attacker AND the attacked and THEY deserve all of it. In the meantime, most of us aren't of that generation. Fox news sucks. So many news stories where the journalists IS the story, sucks. Watching so much of what was good going down the toilet these modern days sucks. So, how about you delete this crap and we all agree that TV still doesn't suck? I know it isn't as profitable to be a bastion of social responsibility. But it is a better man that remains true to the beliefs that got him this far. Those beliefs weren't wrong. And in the future, new generations will embrace them again, when they realize what they have created.

Take a break before you hyperventilate....and don't be such a drama queen.

[andrewdrummond]

The whole piece sounds like an autobiography to me.

Actually the whole article is meaningless. Its written by a blogger, not a journalist per se. At least not a journalist people are queueing up to read. Writing for Asia Correspondent I'm afraid is an occuptation which is getting a bit like an expat in similar occupations to those the author describes. Asian Correspondent used to get quite good reviews, even the Guardian liked it. But they gave it a good review without really watching it for a while. Its now populated by a lot of wannabe journalists. expounding on their personal views I don'r know any ex foreign correspondent falling in line to write there. I do not believe Bangkok Pundit is the guru some people imagine.

The fact that here may be certain characters as the 'author' describes actually has nothing to do with whether foreigners like Thaksin or not. Generally foreigners take a western stance rather than an Asian one. Asians forgive corruption much more readily. And as we saw most Thais actually supported Thaksin's drugs war , in which most victims were innocent.

Foreigners who support and understand one side of the Thai perspective will support Thaksin. Foreigners who stick rigidly to their established code that a murderer is a murderer, a thief is a thief and must be treated as one etc will not. Its got nothing at all to do whether they go to girlie bars or not or Purachai establishing a curfew. Nobody in any city in the world wants a midnight curfew nowadays. It was inane and boring but he threw in a couple of things to get some hits.

Edited May 19, 2011 by andrewdrummond

[OxfordWill]

Just checking the logic here:

P1) Thaivisa is predominantly made up of sexpats

P2) 74% of TV members surveyed didnt want thaksin forgiven and returning

(therefore)

C) Thai sexpats hate thaksin

Can anyone name the fallacy?

[Ulysses G.]

If you really think about it, all the OP really did is make up a bunch of dishonest, convoluted excuses why so many foreigners do not want his hero Thaksin in power again and gave anyone who does not agree with his political views a good bashing while he was at it.

[SteeleJoe]

Thaivisa is predominantly made up of sexpats

Where was this posit?

[landofthefree]

Can anybody read? He was describing the stereotype farang and said it wasn't at all accurate for all of us. Actually, I think it's pretty accurate; about half of the farang here in Pattaya would fit that description!

He also didn't mention the economic impact of Farrang here, many are involved in the redistribution of wealth to poor people in Isaan from either their own country of origin or if they are corporate English teachers from rich Chinese Thais to poor Isaan Thais. Maybe they do some good after all.

[OxfordWill]

His argument is even weaker if we take him at his words and say "Many" rather than "most" which was what I took the subtext to be. By all means- we can include an addtionally fallacy if we ignore being charitable to him and say P1) Many of Tv membership are sexpats. He then does not even have the force of induction and is being entirely illogical.

[mrtoad]

If you really think about it, all the OP really did is make up a bunch of dishonest, convoluted excuses why so many foreigners do not want his hero Thaksin in power again and gave anyone who does not agree with his political views a good bashing while he was at it.

That pretty much somes it up. The question is, how much did "The Dear Leader" pay him?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

one thing they forget of course is that Mr Abhisit's government have had 4 1/2 years to roll back Thaksin's legislation on booze bans, early closing of bars and nightclubs and the restrictions on karaoke bars and 'entertanment venues' ' but have chosen not to do so. Maybe Thasin was speaking for wider Thai society after all?!?!

4 1/2 years? A red apologist being liberal with the facts again, how unusual.

OMG.. Was that personal attack to Millwall really warranted? Surely you understood what he was saying? Why do you make this your debating tactic?

The point he made, without getting overly exact-science about it, was: The stricter controls on night-life that started under Thaksin/Purachai are still very much in effect. Under the military government, the PPP government in between, and now the Democrat led government there has been no significant change. Closing hours are still enforced, entertainment areas go dark at set times, and we still have the somewhat humorous liquor selling laws whereby people have to plan their 2pm-5pm binge a little in advance, because you can't actually buy alcohol during those hours, unless of course you buy really a lot. In addition, we see an extension of the liquor crackdown by the banning of advertising and showing beer and alcohol signage at bars, to the point that restaurants are taping up ash trays and other bar items that had a logo of some beer company on it.

He is saying that this trend towards nannying over people, whether you agree with it or not, was not a sole trademark of the Thaksin administration, but that it very much continues to this day, and has continued under pretty much any conceivable government be it TRT, PPP, MIlitary or Democrat.

PLEASE be civil!! Don't hate, debate!

Edited May 19, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[rufanuf]

I loved the bit about being a "failure in their own country" and "having to pay for sex"....seems like a bit of contradiction in terms to me. I left my country (The UK) becuase its a failure! And I was one of those lucky enough to maybe just have enough funds (made up entirely of my failed efforts so far in life? Huh?) to give another country that appealed to me a chance. On doing so I met many of the most successful westerners I have ever known. Engineers, Lawyers, Developers, people who have retired early in life due to their success in many walks of life, many of them with millions behind them....and yes they can pay for sex if they choose as their success affords them that luxury! I never met a poor man who used a sexual service, although he may well end up poor if he cant leave the ladies or the booze alone. I still havent a clue really what the articles is trying to get at.

[oneiron]

I am not a sexpat and I also hate Thaksin. I followed his actions before I moved to Thailand 4 1/2 years ago and considered him to be trying to become a dictator. I am retired here with my American citizen wife who was born in Bangkok. Also a lot of Thai's do not like Thaksin. We had a visitor from Thailand while still living in the USA and his statement about Thaksin was this "We all expect our elected officials to be on the take, but he did not need to take it all."

[trisailer]

I don't get what the fuss is all about.

Some people come here for sex and some come to retire and live like they would in their home country but with better weather and infinatly better eye candy.

I read the article twice and all I get from it was a statement of the obvious.

[cardholder]

I don't get what the fuss is all about.

Some people come here for sex and some come to retire and live like they would in their home country but with better weather and infinatly better eye candy.

I read the article twice and all I get from it was a statement of the obvious.

I agree. The article was a non-event

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I am not a sexpat and I also hate Thaksin.

Maybe at this point I should say that I *AM* a sexpat (or at least aspire to be one) and I don't hate Thaksin.

So I guess we've now conclusively proven the article inaccurate.

To expand further: It's not that I actually like all of Thaksin's policies, specifically not the drug war and the nannying over nightlife part, but that was never too much of a problem for me to be honest.

So while I personally didn't like getting kicked out of bars at ungodly early hours, I very much saw the benefits his administration brought to less developed areas in terms of healthcare and economic development. So at the very least I understand his popularity in those regions. So.. somewhere in between love and hate. Same for Abhisit, also a mixed bag. The paramount thing that I I really hated was witnessing who really runs Thailand in September 2006. Nothing else comes close.

Edited May 19, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[mrtoad]

You will be thrown away from this country and your dirty behavior too!!! We don't need you to make dirty our country Sexpat !!!

Just for the sake of entertainment.

Who are the biggest users of the sex industry in Thailand?

[kandahar]

You will be thrown away from this country and your dirty behavior too!!! We don't need you to make dirty our country Sexpat !!!

Just for the sake of entertainment.

Who are the biggest users of the sex industry in Thailand?

Not sure, but I heard it is a little redheaded dude named Joe and kind of tallish blond guy with a beard and his name is Alex. Is that what you heard?

[SteeleJoe]

His argument is even weaker if we take him at his words and say "Many" rather than "most" which was what I took the subtext to be. By all means- we can include an addtionally fallacy if we ignore being charitable to him and say P1) Many of Tv membership are sexpats. He then does not even have the force of induction and is being entirely illogical.

He didn't say "many" either.

I appreciate logic and your commitment to employing it but

1) he said a certain type of expat exists here in Thailand.

2) He said not all expats are of this type.

3) He said TV is a good place to find examples of this type (the closest part to offensive of the OP and I confess I didn't notice that part at first but I don't know that it ins't true though I have no reason to believe it is -- other than the odds being not insignificant)...

Fuggit. I don't like the OP and don't care about it either. Sucks to look I'm defending it or its author. (And it could be said he does, without explicitly saying so at all, apparently attempt to conflate sexpats with respondents to the survey. I just don't see why that matters as much as people seem to think it does -- so much that they have to a degree distorted what he actually said)

[mrtoad]

You will be thrown away from this country and your dirty behavior too!!! We don't need you to make dirty our country Sexpat !!!

Just for the sake of entertainment.

Who are the biggest users of the sex industry in Thailand?

Not sure, but I heard it is a little redheaded dude named Joe and kind of tallish blond guy with a beard and his name is Alex. Is that what you heard?

It could be - but then again it could be that bloke called Somchai

Maybe, should have made the question a bit clearer

[Ulysses G.]

The correct answer is is Thai Men.

[mrtoad]

The correct answer is is Thai Men.

For that you get an evening out with Dan Waites

[TGM]

Thaksin might have abused his position somewhat and "lined his own nest" ...

BUT AT LEAST HE HELPED THE "LITTLE" THAI PEOPLE !!!

The hard-working Thai people in the villages LOVE him !!

You must be a Republican and believe in the trickle down school of economics

well said!!!

[kandahar]

You will be thrown away from this country and your dirty behavior too!!! We don't need you to make dirty our country Sexpat !!!

Just for the sake of entertainment.

Who are the biggest users of the sex industry in Thailand?

Not sure, but I heard it is a little redheaded dude named Joe and kind of tallish blond guy with a beard and his name is Alex. Is that what you heard?

It could be - but then again it could be that bloke called Somchai

Maybe, should have made the question a bit clearer

Nah, it was clear enough. Just got a call from Joe and Alex and they confirm the rumor but Joe swears he's ahead of Alex.

[dickyknee]

The correct answer is is Thai Men.

And what do they have to say about the big T?

[mrtoad]

Nah, it was clear enough. Just got a call from Joe and Alex and they confirm the rumor but Joe swears he's ahead of Alex.

Well, that clears that one up then - okay mamuang16 was correct

[geriatrickid]

The truth hurts dont it ? lol

It might be YOUR truth but its certainly not MINE !!

As a Ph.D recruited in the Middle east, where I was working before, to chair a faculty at Chulalongkorn University I find this post extremely offensive. I believe it makes a total mockery of the so called FORUM RULES which Thaivisa sporadically enforces. The author obviously has detailed first hand knowledge of the workings here and is obviously feeling guilty about his own moral standards. I am Married to a Thai lady and have been for 4 years - i have been resident in Thailand for 5 years - I met my wife 3 weeks arriving here. We have a beautiful son who is one year old who was 3 months premature due to his wife being literally dragged out of her hospital bed during the red shirt occupation of Bangkok by two red shirts wanting to check her ward for hidden weapons - THAT IS WHY I DONT LIKE THAKSIN SHINAWATRA added to the fact that I dont want a criminal running the country where I intend to reside for a good few years!! I dont cheat on my Thai wife anymore than I would cheat on a western woman.

Let me ask you this question

"Why is it politically correct to stereotype and abuse the average white working male? If we made these statements about western women going to Jamaica for holidays we could find ourselves in trouble for demeaning women.

I believe that Thai visa should retract this article - it is not decent to stereotype people in this way and it makes the forum look slightly below the Sunday Sport

You forgot to mention the reason why the hospital was being searched. It was alleged that that snipers were seen in windows and on the roof. Shots were fired from the direction of the hospital. I am not justifying the redshirts invasion of thehospital as it was reprehensible. However, the government should not have allowed its personnel to be deployed in such a provocative manner when there as an agreement to leave the hospital alone.

If you are a Ph.D. it is obviously not in anything related to medicine as you are making an unsubstantiated claim. If your wife delivered prematurely it was most likely due to a pre-existing medical condition. You claim the child was delivered 3 months prematurely because your wife was "dragged" from her bed. If you wish to an offer an incendiary allegation, then you should be prepared to provide an explanation as to why the wife was lying in a hospital bed 6 months into her pregnancy. Healthy pregnancies do not involve the pregnant woman being admitted to a hospital at 6 months. Even the government did not claim anyone was "dragged" from a bed. Patients were inconvenienced and lives were disrupted, but no patients were assaulted.

If you don't like former PM Thaksin, ok. However, if you are going to state that you dislike him because of the actions of a group of rogue protestsors, then it begs the question of whether or not you dislike the current PM because elements of the army used sniper fire on journalists. It begs the question whether you maintain the same moral position when allegations of corruption and grade bloating occur in your faculty. After all, you are head of a faculty at Chula and allegations of improprieties have been raised. Should the public blame you for actions that you might not have been responsible for?

You are offended by a mild article? I find it odd that a well educated academic would have his knickers in a knot over this since the article is a tame version of other articles that have appeared elsewhere. I also find it odd that an academic would be so vociferous in promoting censorship. I have had some very conservative faculty heads and deans in my years at university and never once did I come across one that advocated censorship and suppression of an article that was a reflection of existing sentiments and that was low key.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The truth hurts dont it ? lol

It might be YOUR truth but its certainly not MINE !!

As a Ph.D recruited in the Middle east, where I was working before, to chair a faculty at Chulalongkorn University I find this post extremely offensive. I believe it makes a total mockery of the so called FORUM RULES which Thaivisa sporadically enforces. The author obviously has detailed first hand knowledge of the workings here and is obviously feeling guilty about his own moral standards. I am Married to a Thai lady and have been for 4 years - i have been resident in Thailand for 5 years - I met my wife 3 weeks arriving here. We have a beautiful son who is one year old who was 3 months premature due to his wife being literally dragged out of her hospital bed during the red shirt occupation of Bangkok by two red shirts wanting to check her ward for hidden weapons - THAT IS WHY I DONT LIKE THAKSIN SHINAWATRA added to the fact that I dont want a criminal running the country where I intend to reside for a good few years!! I dont cheat on my Thai wife anymore than I would cheat on a western woman.

Let me ask you this question

"Why is it politically correct to stereotype and abuse the average white working male? If we made these statements about western women going to Jamaica for holidays we could find ourselves in trouble for demeaning women.

I believe that Thai visa should retract this article - it is not decent to stereotype people in this way and it makes the forum look slightly below the Sunday Sport

You forgot to mention the reason why the hospital was being searched. It was alleged that that snipers were seen in windows and on the roof. Shots were fired from the direction of the hospital. I am not justifying the redshirts invasion of thehospital as it was reprehensible. However, the government should not have allowed its personnel to be deployed in such a provocative manner when there as an agreement to leave the hospital alone.

If you are a Ph.D. it is obviously not in anything related to medicine as you are making an unsubstantiated claim. If your wife delivered prematurely it was most likely due to a pre-existing medical condition. You claim the child was delivered 3 months prematurely because your wife was "dragged" from her bed. If you wish to an offer an incendiary allegation, then you should be prepared to provide an explanation as to why the wife was lying in a hospital bed 6 months into her pregnancy. Healthy pregnancies do not involve the pregnant woman being admitted to a hospital at 6 months. Even the government did not claim anyone was "dragged" from a bed. Patients were inconvenienced and lives were disrupted, but no patients were assaulted.

If you don't like former PM Thaksin, ok. However, if you are going to state that you dislike him because of the actions of a group of rogue protestsors, then it begs the question of whether or not you dislike the current PM because elements of the army used sniper fire on journalists. It begs the question whether you maintain the same moral position when allegations of corruption and grade bloating occur in your faculty. After all, you are head of a faculty at Chula and allegations of improprieties have been raised. Should the public blame you for actions that you might not have been responsible for?

You are offended by a mild article? I find it odd that a well educated academic would have his knickers in a knot over this since the article is a tame version of other articles that have appeared elsewhere. I also find it odd that an academic would be so vociferous in promoting censorship. I have had some very conservative faculty heads and deans in my years at university and never once did I come across one that advocated censorship and suppression of an article that was a reflection of existing sentiments and that was low key.

Ouch!! Excellent. People can and do write just about any imagined stuff on this site. Very nice when someone occasionally takes the time to confront them.

[jayboy]

Oh come off it.I'm already on record with my view that the article is rather feeble but it also clearly touches a nerve with some (actually quite a lot given the many responses on this thread).The Thaksin hating foreigners (I'm talking about the obsessives not the average joe who doesn't like him much) do tend to be an odd lot by and large.George was quite right to post it.What's been interesting has been the visceral anger of many, clearly suggesting in a rather mediocre piece the author has hit home on a few points.

I read your earlier post and thought it hit the nail on the head.

Why do you assume though, that because people get angry about a point of view, that must mean that it has hit a nerve, that there is some truth to it and that it must be insulting them personally?

Do you find yourself only ever angry about a point of view when it accurately and personally insults you? If so, fine, that's you, but don't assume everyone's emotions work in the same way.

I never get angry over an exchange in an anonymous internet forum.None of it is important enough.

As to the article I think it may have touched a nerve with many who conform to the stereotype mentioned, and don't like being reminded of it.

I really like Thai Visa but it does have an external reputation, unfair in some ways, of being somewhat downmarket with members on the reactionary side.

[TGM]

You will be thrown away from this country and your dirty behavior too!!! We don't need you to make dirty our country Sexpat !!!

มะม่วงครับ, ใจเย็นๆๆ...don't forget who set up comfort zones during Vietnam...our dear politicians did back in 70s na, why do you think we have this big industry 40years later?

If you put candy in front of kid and say NO...is that nice?? As long as we have those sexy ass smack funny bars around

there will be people going inside them. And dirty behavior is everywhere, we have some classic examples well...everywhere!