Abuse Of Phuket Tourists: 'Bar Mafia’ Crackdown Looms

[pontius]

Everyone seems to agree we are used as scapegoats and all in all treated as mugs, will the day ever come where we just pack up and leave.....??

"Everyone" agrees do they? That's simply not true. Personally I could never stay in a place that I had such a negative impression of. At least you have got the solution to your problem worked out. Bye bye!! Meanwhile I'm going to keep on picking up my substantial pay checks and really not caring if the authorities decide to pick on some small time farang losers in Phuket. Anyway it is Saturday afternoon and time for a drink in a Thai owned bar where the only possibility of trouble is from one of the other farang customers. Enjoy your misery sir and don't think about leaving. Do it.You mind find that life isn't so bad after all when you are on the plane back to Russia or wherever:-)

The "falang go home, I stay here" never gets old, does it.

[Tanlic]

People like Benjamin Bugsy Siegel, Al Scarface, Capone John Gotti Charles Lucky Luciano etc were the real Mafia

These guys were organised crime lords who mixed with prime ministers, presidents and famous stars like George Raft Sinatra etc

Now if you come from Russia have a few tatoos and own a bar you're the <deleted> Mafiosa.

I guess 2 bit crimianal in Thai must get Lost in translation and come out the other end as Mafia???

[BangTaoBoy]

The "falang go home, I stay here" never gets old, does it.

There can be no more simple a logic to comprehend, than if you don't like somewhere DON'T GO THERE. If you were stupid enough to go somewhere that you hated (I've never been that stupid in my whole life) then take it on the chin and LEAVE.

Try and explain to me how that logic is flawed. I bet you can't.

[jboras]

B O R I N G ! !

Anything new in Thailand?

The farnags maybe should get the farang out of business and just be what they are supposed to be husbands and tourists! Leave the buisness to Thais...

Edited May 21, 2011 by jboras

[jboras]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

I spent 100 or so months over ten years, you just have to take Thailand for what it is. Use your brain, stay out of trouble, let go of control, take advantage of all great benefits and let the other bull roll of your back.

No doubt the greatest reason for living in Thailand is the women and some real loser men end up in Thailand to do nothing but chase bar girls. But those guys were losers before the came here to, who cares, they are certainly not every man who moved to LOS.

Truth is, if you happen to not be a loser, and if you are a clever guy that can make a good life for himself in the West, you may be able to double down here in Thailand.

Hmm........! Sound like confessions.....

[Rumpole]

BTW, interesting they had a hearing on the abuse of tourists.... but it seems the only people testifying were Thais.... didn't see any mention of any farang or farang representative in either of the news reports here...

Haven't you got it yet? Your opinions, ideas, and input on any aspect of life in Thailand are neither welcome nor required. Just give us your money and <deleted>, farang.

[vermut12]

As usualy all news about Russians are getting filled with anti-russian xenophobic posts. All the kinds of stories are invented about brutal Russian mafia operating now in Thailand, Russians with German pasports and so on. Well, I am Russian and I will give you an insight on this which is closer to reality than some of those over exaggerated stories. Just a note: I am not a bar owner and do not own any businesses in Thailand at all. And I do not reside in Thailand currently. But I had lived in Thailand for over 6 months in Pattaya and several times visited Phuket. So I got to know some of the Russian business owners and know the story on the inside.

So here is the situation itself. As you all know the number of tourists from Russia to Thailand is growing every year and now is considerable part of the market. The majority of these tourists come from Siberia and the Russian Far East. These are people employed in the oil extracting, gold mining, wood cutting, heavy metal industries. They are not very educated bunch (and the level of English teaching is very low in Russia in general). They do not behave very well. But they earn very good money there. They spend a lot. They spend more than you. And for Thais it is "money number one". And you know it. You can compare them to some average worker from an industrial zone in the USA. Now think about this average guy and ask yourself how many languages this guy knows, and his manners. The only difference is that this guy probably doesn't go to Thailand because there are tons of places with warm climate in th USA. And travelling is likely beyond him in general.

The fact is that these Russian guys do not come to Thailand because it is Thailand. They come to the sea and the sun and to have great time in the warm climate. Thailand is the best option for them: no visa requirements, developed infrastructure, cheap, closer than Europe. So again: the majority doesn't come for sex, they do not come to see Thailand. They come to enjoy the warm climate, swim in the sea and eat tropical fruit.

Thailand and the Thai culture are really alien to them. They do not want to know anything about them, they do not like thai food, they do not understand menus in English, do not like Thai songs and so on. So they start seeking something familiar, the kind of entertainment and food they are used to at home. And here is where all the Russian bars and restaruants strive. If you pay attention to the Russian bars in Pattaya they do not have girls sitting there. They will have Russian food, a band singing Russian music, the waiters will speak Russian.

These bars charge more because this is what you pay for a beer or for food in Russia. It is sort of a tax for the Russian environment in the bar. Do customers know about the prices? Certainly. Why they do not go to another bar? Because they do not freaking speak English, they do not want to listen to the English songs and they do not want to know people there. They want the waiters to speak Russian to them they want their Russian native stuff and they are willing to pay for it.

As a result very often you can see that a Russian styled bar is filled while a Thai owned bar next door is almost empty with bored girls hopelesly trying to lure customers. This fact makes Thai owners angry especially during the low season. They believe that the Russian owned bars compete unfairly and lure all the customers to themselves. They start filing complaints with the police, threatening, inventing stuff. I talked to a Russian bar owner in Pattaya and he told me that there was a constant pressure from Thais who wanted him to share customers. And I can assure you that this owner guy is not related to any mafia. He is just an ordinary guy from Moscow who decided to move to Thailand and start his business there.

This crackdown is similar to what Tuk Tuk drivers were doing in Phuket when they complained that the Russian and western mafia were providing taxi services and the Tuk Tuks were not getting any customers. They even blocked one of the cruise liners in ports so that the passengers could go ashore. Mafia my ass. These are just normal businesses who know what their customers want and give it to them. Can thais play Russian music, have menu in Russian and can their waiters speak Russian? Russians just want to get for their buck the fun they like and not be forced into a Thai bar.

Edited May 21, 2011 by vermut12

[sausageandmash]

The reason for this is that most farang behave like meek little lambs who take too much crap. If you stand up for yourselves, this won't happen. It's not rocket science.

Everyone seems to agree we are used as scapegoats and all in all treated as mugs, will the day ever come where we just pack up and leave.....??

[vermut12]

Vote with your feet...Do not go in these places....Keep an eye on your Check-bin...better still your Thai G/f to do it...Don;t get smashed...or angry towards Thais.

Yes agreed on The Russians...why this reciprocal Visa agreement exists with Russia is beyond me...must be good corruption income.Very brash aggressive and ignorant culture.

Germans...never known them to be aggro in Phuket...they have a huge community in Naklua...with many great bars and restaurants at sensible prices.They hate the Russians...with good reason..."Don't mention the War".

This VIsa agreement exists because the Russians come fill all the 5 star hotels even during the low season and spend tons of money everywhere without bargaining. And you will count every penny. Not that much of profit from you.

Let me remind you the main rule in Thailand: Money number one.

[Beetlejuice]

The term 'mafia' is overused in Thailand.

I agree.

The terms, thieves, murderers and cutthroats is much more fitting.

Over the years it`s all changed, for the worse.

The majority of Thailand’s adult entertainment scene has been taken over by criminal gangs, both Thai and foreign.

Although these bars, restaurants and massage parlours have never been that savoury, these days it`s all gone completely bad.

I often hear horror stories from acquaintances of what had happened to them when they decided to take a bargirl or massage parlour girl back to their rooms. And from some that were held to ransom with the blessing of the police and threats of violence against them in bars and massage parlours when they refused to pay extravagant tips or over changed on bills.

If you decide to visit these places, you do so at your own risk.

[stevo52]

There is one bar in Patong that may fit this profile, in Patong, it has Russian girls pole dancing in it. There are a few go-go bars that do the big bill at the end scam just like Pattaya, Bangkok, Vegas, Soho etc etc, buyer beware.

A 'crackdown' is hardly required.

Trevor i was just reading Thai news normally id never comment on forum because you know most of it has to be a joke -----------but this time i looked i thought ''these people don't actually believe this do they '' this Russian / German gangster thing its real tooth fairy stuff !

I have been around the world 6 times and i'am an Aussie but i lived in Thailand hm!! 5 times average like 3/4 months a time, over last 6 years! look in all honesty i know Thailand back the front, in my traveling time there i seen a grand total of 8 Russians and i WAS looking very hard for them too ! i actually like the ruskies i got a lot of time for em - as i lived and worked in Russia 3 years plus 5 months nobody tried to shoot me over 200 baht lol.

matter of fact i found them scared stiff of foreigners!!! The only Russians i ever seen in Thailand were poorer that the poorest Thais i ended up buying them all a feed because they had 3/4 of 5'8ths of nothing !

There is a hell of a lot of mythology about Russian mafia you don't have in Thailand ''real ruskie mafia '' if you did there would be millions of $$$ involved ( Russian mafia does not play with 2 shilling bars that scratch to earn 75,000 baht a month selling nickel and dime girls and 35 baht drinks on the hour !!!-------------sorry no but --- what you Have IN THAILAND IS THE PLASTIC gangster versions of the Russians !!! just milky bar kids - give em a smack around the chops!!! they soon start running - Toy boys AND POOFS !and honestly 2 dozen hard old school aussies would clean them up in ten minutes and they'd stick all there water pistols up the rear ends = and send them all packing !

Thailand nice place but its 10.000 times too poor for Real mafia to play in ! iam TRYING KEEP A STRAIGHT FACE Russia where i lived they quarter a spud at times --poor you never seen nothing like it !!!!! i'm thinking where would the poverty stricken ruskies ever find an air fare get to Thailand unless they sold mum' +daughter and 12 members of the family into slavery to do it lol another MYTH rich Russians sorry but not since 2007 -they all starved financially as the rest of us did -we all crashed and burnt together !

Why would the poor ruskies go to even poorer Thailand i mean whats the point ??? your still in a nickel and dime world - all makes no sense ---you could buy 1/2 a town there with 15k of Dole / unemployment payments ! lol no advantage Russian business in Thailand !

according to my embassy Russians can't stay more than 15 days on visitor visa ??? --must be doing very fast business -- from what i see its all fairy tales there is Russians as you say bito dancing etc in Thailand but i could never find em and speaking with my Aussie mate whom is retired and lives in UDON THANI LAST 4 YEARS about the Russians - he said no i dunno what your on about ????? --the last Russian thing i seen he said, was movie called RED DAWN THEY INVADED THE usa but that was another fairy tale lol lol..

excuse i must away to the backyard --- a whirring noise maybe the space shuttle landed on the block behind me - lol if that happening it would be similar to the ruskie fairy tale too!!! ( could you imagine a ruskie rich oligarch worth like 7 billion dollars ) - going the knuckle with the tourist over a 70 baht drink lol lol yeah sure !! --------------------------who'd bother ?????

Germans where did those peasants buy into it all ????? ive seen Germans in Thailand yes all 75 plus with a shoulder bag full of condoms looking a girl thats blind/ free/ deft and dumb !

lol take care ---watch out for the red's lol lol lol you can't get em out the house once they are in eh!

I just could not see the russkies racing to thailand to steal a carrot so to speak when they cant even get 3 roubles for their own grown carrots no sorry --- the thai govvy watched Dr zhivargo 1968 and the odessa file to many times - its not real iam sorry !

[surayu]

There can be no more simple a logic to comprehend, than if you don't like somewhere DON'T GO THERE. If you were stupid enough to go somewhere that you hated (I've never been that stupid in my whole life) then take it on the chin and LEAVE.

Try and explain to me how that logic is flawed. I bet you can't.

Ok my son, take a seat and "listen" carefully

Sometime in life, there are things that you might not be able to control, there are also things you might discover only when is a bit too late to step back, or simply problems can just materialize and you have to deal with them, you can't just be running away everytime you need to deal with difficult situations, i know that on the news you can read almost daily about people being runned over by a vehicle which didn't stop to help or wanted to face responsability for what they did, only because many people are beaving as pure sevages, it doesn't mean you have to follow their examples.

Once you have a family, civilized countries, or let's just say "normal" countries, recognize you certain rights you should always being entitled to, a country which is keeping is own people backwards and do cheats foreigners and locals only to keep a few people afloat need help in changing this, the ignorance of what everyone should be entitled to in life it's one of the main obstacles but definetely not the only one.

Especially the fathers of thai nationals should be very concerned about the future of their kids and in what kind of environment they are leaving them into, or is someone just going to tell them to go away ? at this point i am expecting it

[stevo52]

Vote with your feet...Do not go in these places....Keep an eye on your Check-bin...better still your Thai G/f to do it...Don;t get smashed...or angry towards Thais.

Yes agreed on The Russians...why this reciprocal Visa agreement exists with Russia is beyond me...must be good corruption income.Very brash aggressive and ignorant culture.

Germans...never known them to be aggro in Phuket...they have a huge community in Naklua...with many great bars and restaurants at sensible prices.They hate the Russians...with good reason..."Don't mention the War".

This VIsa agreement exists because the Russians come fill all the 5 star hotels even during the low season and spend tons of money everywhere without bargaining. And you will count every penny. Not that much of profit from you.

Let me remind you the main rule in Thailand: Money number one.

Yes and thats a VERY BAD RULE money should be number NONE !! ------------thats whats wrecking Thailand my friend money is last ------ or it should be !!!!! -----------the Russian and German thing the war no sorry - Russians were in the right 100% they were sitting doing nothing had no wish to be involved but Hitler decided for No reason THAT HE'D JUST LIKE TO OWN RUSSIA!!! bad mistake he invaded the Ruskies remember ( THEY DID NOT INVADE HIM ) the Ruskies in that time in history were doing Nothing wrong to nobody ! ( ONLY THEMSELVES BUT THAT WAS THEIR BUSINESS ) they wanted to be left alone ---- but no ------ Adolf had to go and poke em in the eye with a stick !!!!! ------------the end RESULT was as we know sorry the Nazis Got-all they deserved ---- and that was not enough eh !

I'd sit with Russia's worst mafia man and have a beer, before I'd sit with a German ! my god what horror !!!!

ON THAT POINT I SAY---- LONG LIVE THE RUSSIANS GOOD FOR THEM !!!

PS Russians don't pay for 5 star hotels your imagining things they never seen $200 in life at least none of the 60 plus Russian i worked with and visited in the last 13 years - could ever buy me a 10 ounce glass of beer!!! ive never seen a ruskie with more than $15 in his pocket at one time in life ( it took him 6 months to save up that much ) --nothing wrong with my eyesight or arithmetic ! i found em very nice people but then 99% of people whom have zero and are looking for a feed are very nice to a person who can buy em a feed eh !

Russians 5 star hotels ??? what a lot of s---t you must be on drugs lol !!!

More like Russian arrives they bring out the old wooden caravan dated 1951 take his $3 and put him and his missus ---- in the wooden Hilton lol lol...

[KarenBravo]

PS Russians don't pay for 5 star hotels your imagining things they never seen $200 in life at least none of the 60 plus Russian i worked with and visited in the last 13 years - could ever buy me a 10 ounce glass of beer!!! ive never seen a ruskie with more than $15 in his pocket at one time in life ( it took him 6 months to save up that much ) --nothing wrong with my eyesight or arithmetic ! i found em very nice people but then 99% of people whom have zero and are looking for a feed are very nice to a person who can buy em a feed eh !

Russians 5 star hotels ??? what a lot of s---t you must be on drugs lol !!!

More like Russian arrives they bring out the old wooden caravan dated 1951 take his $3 and put him and his missus ---- in the wooden Hilton lol lol...

Obviously you know nothing about the mega-rich Russians that actually do stay in 5-star resorts in Phuket.

Or, the many Russians that are keeping the high end property market alive in Phuket.

Do you actually live in Phuket? Don't think you do.

[pontius]

The "falang go home, I stay here" never gets old, does it.

There can be no more simple a logic to comprehend, than if you don't like somewhere DON'T GO THERE. If you were stupid enough to go somewhere that you hated (I've never been that stupid in my whole life) then take it on the chin and LEAVE.

Try and explain to me how that logic is flawed. I bet you can't.

I don't like and will never ever go back to Phuket, now tell me why you also want me to leave Bangkok. amazing logic man. I happen to run a small company here. You want me to give it up cause I dislike Phuket?

"Falang go home whaaaaa" - yeah right. Awesome and truly logic argumentation there, pal. How about the true reason why you want all foreigners out? Could it be that you hope to get a GF too, when the place is abandoned?

Just asking.

And Phuket sucks.

[Old Croc]

Glad to see Stevo edited his post, otherwise it may have been a little over the top.

[osiboy]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

Over the past 5 years, I've been to Thailand about 30 times, gone to hundreds of bars in Bangkok, Pattaya and a few in Phuket and other places and NEVER ONCE been scammed at any of them.

A couple of other minor scams in heavy tourist areas, but nothing like you would expect in many other countries.

Best of all is a Thai Girlfriend that lets you have a little fun!

not as much fun as shes having when you go back home !

[vermut12]

PS Russians don't pay for 5 star hotels your imagining things they never seen $200 in life at least none of the 60 plus Russian i worked with and visited in the last 13 years - could ever buy me a 10 ounce glass of beer!!! ive never seen a ruskie with more than $15 in his pocket at one time in life ( it took him 6 months to save up that much ) --nothing wrong with my eyesight or arithmetic ! i found em very nice people but then 99% of people whom have zero and are looking for a feed are very nice to a person who can buy em a feed eh !

Russians 5 star hotels ??? what a lot of s---t you must be on drugs lol !!!

More like Russian arrives they bring out the old wooden caravan dated 1951 take his $3 and put him and his missus ---- in the wooden Hilton lol lol...

Well there are pretty shabby places in Russia where people live in extreme poverty and with little chances to improve the situation. However what you are saying is surreal. Being Russian I used to live in Russia for many years and have seen many places outside of Moscow. But I just can't believe in $200 never seen in their life. What are these places that you visited? If what you are saying is true the only place I could imagine is Chechnya and the neighboring territories (though I doubt you would go there) or some places in the far north in the middle of nowhere populated by the ethnic minorities such as aleut people and so forth.

I´ve just googled it and the retirement pensions in Russia are 8.780 roubles per month and this is about $310. And pensioners have always been on the bottom of the welfare redistribution in Russia. There is nothing below them.

[seriouseats]

lol at that stevego guy.. The marina is filled with russian. Cheapest meal at marina: 300baht, gym membership starts at 2000baht a month if you pay 15 to 45 000baht entree fee. Boat fee is at least 20 000baht per month and condo rental start at 45 000baht for 1br

yet they've never had 500baht in their pockets?

[koto]

Do what I do; don't go to Phuket.

CERTAINLY NOT RESTRICTED TO PHUKET. Some do even better: never come to Thailand . Did you ever think of this one ?

Ah yes Thailand is not for all and that's great, only a select few that can appreciate and leave their Farang ways back home.

[Yeppe]

Amaizing Thailand - The land of all kind of crimes...I don´t miss that country at all - so troublesome. And this country never improves as the high position persons are running those criminal actions.Look at Singapore - so safe, so clean, so right there - the gem of ASIA!

Edited May 21, 2011 by Yeppe

[KarenBravo]

Look at Singapore - so safe, so clean...

......so sterile, so stifling, so boring.

[BangTaoBoy]

Ok my son, take a seat and "listen" carefully

Sometime in life, there are things that you might not be able to control, there are also things you might discover only when is a bit too late to step back, or simply problems can just materialize and you have to deal with them, you can't just be running away everytime you need to deal with difficult situations, i know that on the news you can read almost daily about people being runned over by a vehicle which didn't stop to help or wanted to face responsability for what they did, only because many people are beaving as pure sevages, it doesn't mean you have to follow their examples.

Once you have a family, civilized countries, or let's just say "normal" countries, recognize you certain rights you should always being entitled to, a country which is keeping is own people backwards and do cheats foreigners and locals only to keep a few people afloat need help in changing this, the ignorance of what everyone should be entitled to in life it's one of the main obstacles but definetely not the only one.

Especially the fathers of thai nationals should be very concerned about the future of their kids and in what kind of environment they are leaving them into, or is someone just going to tell them to go away ? at this point i am expecting it

Thanks for taking the time to make an inteligent reply, they're like rocking horse shit around here. I don't agree though. You can't possibly have brought children in to the world BEFORE you knew what Thailand was like could you? Taking half Thai children to the other country to live is always an option is it not.

At the end of the day, anyone who has got themself in to a situation, where they are living in a country they hate to the point of uncontrollably slagging it off on a forum, has got no one to blame but themselves. We all know most of the people that post on here, do so from their miserable lives back in the West, can't put it down to anything but jealousy myself, but the few that do live here and still do it, need to have a word with themselves, and get on a plane back home asap.

The "falang go home, I stay here" never gets old, does it.

There can be no more simple a logic to comprehend, than if you don't like somewhere DON'T GO THERE. If you were stupid enough to go somewhere that you hated (I've never been that stupid in my whole life) then take it on the chin and LEAVE.

Try and explain to me how that logic is flawed. I bet you can't.

I don't like and will never ever go back to Phuket, now tell me why you also want me to leave Bangkok. amazing logic man. I happen to run a small company here. You want me to give it up cause I dislike Phuket?

"Falang go home whaaaaa" - yeah right. Awesome and truly logic argumentation there, pal. How about the true reason why you want all foreigners out? Could it be that you hope to get a GF too, when the place is abandoned?

Just asking.

And Phuket sucks.

Who said anything about you leaving BKK? Who said anything about wanting foreigners out? I'll try again as you seem to have comprehension issues. If you live in BKK and are so happy and your life is so fulfilling, why do you still have time to come on to a Phuket forum to slag it off? You can't be having that much fun can you, if that's how you fill your time. Do you feel better now you've told the world 'Phuket sucks'?

Simple logic. If you don't like Phuket don't go there, then all the problems that you believe Phuket has, won't affect you, then you can get on with your life in BKK. Explain to me exactly why, if you don't like Phuket and you are never going there again, you find yourself on a Phuket forum telling everybody that it 'sucks'. Doesn't sound like the actions of a happy man to me.

[herb59]

Everyone seems to agree we are used as scapegoats and all in all treated as mugs, will the day ever come where we just pack up and leave.....??

yes, the day will come!!! for me and my wife.

[BangTaoBoy]

Amaizing Thailand - The land of all kind of crimes...I don´t miss that country at all - so troublesome. And this country never improves as the high position persons are running those criminal actions.Look at Singapore - so safe, so clean, so right there - the gem of ASIA!

You don't miss Thailand, just Thai forums??

[Rhys]

NOTHING like this happens in Thailand without the support of the Police

Yes I agree with you.

REMEMBER support your local police buy plenty of Chang

ELECTIONS are here already 5555

[khaowong1]

NOTHING like this happens in Thailand without the support of the Police

Bingo, you win the prize.

[spidermike007]

I am told that the Russian mob is becoming more and more influential in Thailand. Some have told me they are edging out the local mobs in Pattaya and Phuket. This may be a form of government protectionism. Let's protect the local rackets. The Russian mobs are far more organized, and far more efficient. Of course the leaders are more intelligent too. More cunning. More calculating. Educated. Is one any worse than the other, for the average foreigner to deal with?

[geriatrickid]

As usualy all news about Russians are getting filled with anti-russian xenophobic posts. All the kinds of stories are invented about brutal Russian mafia operating now in Thailand, Russians with German pasports and so on. Well, I am Russian and I will give you an insight on this which is closer to reality than some of those over exaggerated stories. Just a note: I am not a bar owner and do not own any businesses in Thailand at all. And I do not reside in Thailand currently. But I had lived in Thailand for over 6 months in Pattaya and several times visited Phuket. So I got to know some of the Russian business owners and know the story on the inside.

So here is the situation itself. As you all know the number of tourists from Russia to Thailand is growing every year and now is considerable part of the market. The majority of these tourists come from Siberia and the Russian Far East. These are people employed in the oil extracting, gold mining, wood cutting, heavy metal industries. They are not very educated bunch (and the level of English teaching is very low in Russia in general). They do not behave very well. But they earn very good money there. They spend a lot. They spend more than you. And for Thais it is "money number one". And you know it. You can compare them to some average worker from an industrial zone in the USA. Now think about this average guy and ask yourself how many languages this guy knows, and his manners. The only difference is that this guy probably doesn't go to Thailand because there are tons of places with warm climate in th USA. And travelling is likely beyond him in general.

The fact is that these Russian guys do not come to Thailand because it is Thailand. They come to the sea and the sun and to have great time in the warm climate. Thailand is the best option for them: no visa requirements, developed infrastructure, cheap, closer than Europe. So again: the majority doesn't come for sex, they do not come to see Thailand. They come to enjoy the warm climate, swim in the sea and eat tropical fruit.

Thailand and the Thai culture are really alien to them. They do not want to know anything about them, they do not like thai food, they do not understand menus in English, do not like Thai songs and so on. So they start seeking something familiar, the kind of entertainment and food they are used to at home. And here is where all the Russian bars and restaruants strive. If you pay attention to the Russian bars in Pattaya they do not have girls sitting there. They will have Russian food, a band singing Russian music, the waiters will speak Russian.

These bars charge more because this is what you pay for a beer or for food in Russia. It is sort of a tax for the Russian environment in the bar. Do customers know about the prices? Certainly. Why they do not go to another bar? Because they do not freaking speak English, they do not want to listen to the English songs and they do not want to know people there. They want the waiters to speak Russian to them they want their Russian native stuff and they are willing to pay for it.

As a result very often you can see that a Russian styled bar is filled while a Thai owned bar next door is almost empty with bored girls hopelesly trying to lure customers. This fact makes Thai owners angry especially during the low season. They believe that the Russian owned bars compete unfairly and lure all the customers to themselves. They start filing complaints with the police, threatening, inventing stuff. I talked to a Russian bar owner in Pattaya and he told me that there was a constant pressure from Thais who wanted him to share customers. And I can assure you that this owner guy is not related to any mafia. He is just an ordinary guy from Moscow who decided to move to Thailand and start his business there.

This crackdown is similar to what Tuk Tuk drivers were doing in Phuket when they complained that the Russian and western mafia were providing taxi services and the Tuk Tuks were not getting any customers. They even blocked one of the cruise liners in ports so that the passengers could go ashore. Mafia my ass. These are just normal businesses who know what their customers want and give it to them. Can thais play Russian music, have menu in Russian and can their waiters speak Russian? Russians just want to get for their buck the fun they like and not be forced into a Thai bar.

You get the prize for one of the most lucid and intelligent posts I have read in TVF in years. Hopefully, some readers will understand what you have written.

Thank you for this well written and thought out contribution.

[moe666]

As usual the few have Hi-jacked a story that could have provided good info. There seem to be those who like to take a story with a little info and blow it out of of sight. i often wonder about the true experiences of some of our posters here, it all soulds like pure speculation and I wish I could go there. I have been coming to Thailand on a regular basis from 1998 and have never had a problem with bar girls, bar owners, police, or the so called mafia. I have travelled from one end of the country to the other without a problem. I guess i just donot look for it.

Good luck to all of you who cannot stay out of trouble or get ripped off.