In Jail: My Innocent 23 Year Old Son

[lizzieod]

My son has been in jail for 20 days so far awaiting trial. His 'crime' purchasing a visa from a travel shop. In UK this is normal practice, just as it is in Thailand BUT ONE BIG DIFFERENCE in Thailand one is looking at 1 to 4 years in jail. The agent that sold this to him is still trading and selling these visas. My son has been to the UK with this forgery in his passport, if he was a criminal he would have simply got a replacement passport whilst here. He also signed a document upon arrest that was written in Thai, he had no lawyer present and no translator. This paper says he is guilty. He understood he was signing to say that he accepted that he had bought the visa. So now he is in jail. DO NOT GO TO THAILAND just don't bother. Nothing that is said is correct and definite it simply depends on the day

[dumball]

Welcome to the land of scams , that is if you have lots of cash on hand , you can also purchase a visa at a travel agent in Cambodia , a legal one , but not for travel to the Uk .

[NanLaew]

He bought this Thai visa in Bangkok?

I guess he was working here?

Or a tourist maybe?

Or both?

PS. Where is buying a visa inside the country being visited or once inside the country ever 'normal practice'... anywhere? Thailand has one of the easiest legal visa issuing and renewal procedures. It is indeed a pity that your son chose to do something that's pretty much illegal anywhere else.

Edited May 23, 2011 by NanLaew

[Soutpeel]

Why havent you bailed him and took on a lawyer ?

ps...and no travel agent in the UK issues UK visa's....

Edited May 23, 2011 by Soutpeel

[Penkoprod]

I don't understand this

Are you (is he) saying he went into a "travel shop" in Thailandand bought a visa for a long term stay?

One that meant he could circumvent the visa requirements, as to any financial matters?

In other words, a fake, illegal one?

Penkoprod

Edited May 23, 2011 by Penkoprod

[Crossy]

OK Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we need a LOT more information before passing judgement.

For example:-

Where is this travel shop located?

Where was your son when he bought this visa?

Where was he apprehended?

Plus many more. Any and all additional information is welcomed if it will help someone else avoid this unfortunate situation.

I see our OP is monitoring this thread, can you expand upon the information you provided?

[tingtongtourist]

Oh, i see this is your very first time on this website and even though you have all this trouble in mind the first think to do is to become a member and post this on thaivisa

[saintofsilence]

It is not uncommon in Thailand as there are shops offering these services with advertisements on windows they are the ones who should be getting locked up many people new to country may think they are legal .

[hayden5650]

Thailand was the first country to which I have travelled and stayed long enough to require a visa.

It did come as somewhat of a surprise that I had to leave to country to gain a visa, that they weren't simply available at immigration or an embassy.

However, you'd have to be a bit of a dunce to think you can buy one in a shop. Even a n00b must realise it has to come from somewhere governmental.

How did he get nicked? Was he attempting a border crossing?

[Tafia]

You need to be more specific. I'm assuming you (he is) are British.

What Visa did he buy?

More information and we may be able to understand the situation more clearly. Otherwise its all speculation!!

[Geeraphun]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

Second, my country (or any other country for that matter) does NOT SELL Visas at travel agents.

Third, Thailand has "Visa service companies" that will help plan trips to boarders or Thai Consulates in other countries for visa purposes but cannot SELL visas.

Fourth, if he is 23 then he should research countries to where hi is traveling (and so should you if you knew he was doing this) as Google and the internet has an infinite source of rules and regulations for foriegn countries.

It is not fair for you to tell people NOT to travel to my country for this matter. Please show some respect sir. This post should be closed if the OP does not provide more info.

[CMSteve]

Sorry to hear your son is in the pokey. I'm sure no parent wants to be in the same situation as you are right now.

Unfortunately, your son is not innocent in any sense. Ignorant may be more probable, but realistically, if he's been here a while, he more likely knew this was not legal.

[Badbanker]

Documents signed on a police arrest absolutely never acknowledge your guilt! He is just signing an acceptance that he is being charged and the allegations are on this sheet he signs. One of the 5 legal rights he has is to sign or not sing any document put before him. THEY CANNOT FORCE YOU TO SIGN!

A competent lawyer will gain a lot of benefit from the fact that there was a lack of an interpreter in any court hearing, at least in Bangkok this is taken as a very serious issue.

He is still able to get bail and be released till the a judgment is made in a court.

This seems to me a case of forgery and while potentially as you have said the law states 1-4 year punishment in this case in all practicality a good lawyer will get a him a suspended sentence and the time he has served. This is especially true if he can prove he was deceived and he was not a willing party or genuinely knew what he was doing was wrong.

Thai immigration has only had access to passport related forgery laws in the past 3 years and make a big issue of it.

I live in court, so PM me if you want any further advice.

BB

[rayinkrabi]

Whatever us long termers think I agree with crossy..lets wait to hear more details.

If this lad is fairly new to travel he may well be a bit naive, especially if he's used someone like 'Trailfinders' before who offer to arrange a visa for various destinations (inc Thailand). Regardless, 3 weeks in prison, and counting, for this 'crime' is ridiculous, I'm surprised the Brit Embassy aren't helping given that he signed something he couldn't understand without representation (further proof of the lads naivity?)

[PoorSucker]

"In UK this is normal practice"

Can any UK citizen confirm this.

A Thai friends family like to move to the UK.

Can you buy a Visa at 7-11???

[surayu]

LizzieOd, immediately inform your embassy of competence (UK?) in Thailand and make them aware of the situation, as already suggested by other members, bail him out from that hell asap, the standards of the thai prisons wouldn't pass those for chicken or calves back home, honestly, and the various EU governments are rather busy by discussing if a banana is straight or bended and the size of the various vegetables rather than do something about their own citizen abroad loosing their basic human rights and even dying in more than one case because of what can only be described as tortures and forced deprivations, complitely dishumane!

[dananderson]

More information would be helpfull. The OP obviously needs help finding a competent lawyer/barrister. There are many here that can be helpfull in that regard, if you provide more details (per the mods request). There is no logical reason reason for your son to be in jail for 20 days for such a minor infraction. Competent legal help should have him out on bail in short order.

Edited May 23, 2011 by dananderson

[alyx]

Hey

You all seem to have understood the content of the OP's first (and last) post

Well I haven't?

Would lizzieod be kind enough to explain the circumstances leaving aside the comparisons with other agents/ countries....?

Simply state the facts, you might get interesting insights from some valuable members (unless you have posted to let you anger out )

Edited May 23, 2011 by alyx

[champken]

Hey

You all seem to have understood the content of the OP's first (and last) post

Well I haven't?

Would lizzieod be kind enough to explain the circumstances leaving aside the comparisons with other agents/ countries....?

Simply state the facts, you might get interesting insights from some valuable members (unless you have posted to let you anger out )

I think my maths are about on the same level as yours on this one...2+2 dont make 5

[paulbrun]

There is more to this story than has been told so far..? Hopefully, there will be a satisfactory conclusion, and the details will come out. If he is innocent, then maybe the travel agent will be arrested..? There is no doubt that trying to circumvent the law in regard to visas, is a very foolish thing to do. And not necessary..?

[JohnReeves]

Sorry to hear about your son,but if its a thai jail he's in this really isnt a big deal.He go to court they will find him guilty,then a noiminal fine and he will be sent to the international deportation center ( IDC ) and await his deportation.U.K. consulate will notify you to send them his fine money and ticket moneyfor return home.After the fine is paid they will purchase a ticket and he will be deported in 7-10 days.You will need to send the consulate alittle extra money for your sons up keep will in idc ,the thai offered facillities are worse than anything you can immagine.but for just a little bit of money he can purchase his own room and a far better quality of food ,the consulate can arrange this for you and will.I have exsperince with this,im american but a good friend of mine was from seaford U.K. and he got jammed up in the same way.Took alittle bit more time for his family, sort out the finacial details so i had to bring him food and water every day and keep my bro spirits up while i motivated the U.K. consulate for his folks.So don't panic they wont hook him up to batteries or anything,but the thai legal system has their own pace ( snail ).good luck

john

[moe666]

Troll, do not waste your time

[moe666]

Thailand was the first country to which I have travelled and stayed long enough to require a visa.

It did come as somewhat of a surprise that I had to leave to country to gain a visa, that they weren't simply available at immigration or an embassy.

However, you'd have to be a bit of a dunce to think you can buy one in a shop. Even a n00b must realise it has to come from somewhere governmental.

How did he get nicked? Was he attempting a border crossing?

I would like to know what country you have stayed long time in that you didn't need a visa before you got there. Just curious.

[saintofsilence]

I hope you can get your son out as quick as possible and get a good lawyer on to it I don't agree with some comments that say he should know better , the way these shops advertise the service would be convincing to a lot of young people that come to Thailand and they would believe these services are legit.

[Badbanker]

I am surprised that due to the gravity of the alleged situation and the desperation of the OP that he has not come back to the forum.

Could this be a fresh troll.

BB

[Soutpeel]

"In UK this is normal practice"

Can any UK citizen confirm this.

A Thai friends family like to move to the UK.

Can you buy a Visa at 7-11???

Its not normal practice in the UK....No travel agent in the UK can issue visa's for staying in the UK

I suspect what the OP is referring to is that travel agents can arrange visa's to OTHER countries on behalf of their clients..ie some thing you could do yourself if so inclined.

[Soutpeel]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

And at this stage in the proceedings he is NOT guilty either......he stands accused of a crime at this point in time......it up to a court of law to decide the guilt or innocence of the party.

[BlueSmurf]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

Second, my country (or any other country for that matter) does NOT SELL Visas at travel agents.

Third, Thailand has "Visa service companies" that will help plan trips to boarders or Thai Consulates in other countries for visa purposes but cannot SELL visas.

Fourth, if he is 23 then he should research countries to where hi is traveling (and so should you if you knew he was doing this) as Google and the internet has an infinite source of rules and regulations for foriegn countries.

It is not fair for you to tell people NOT to travel to my country for this matter. Please show some respect sir. This post should be closed if the OP does not provide more info.

It would seem that a travel agent got him a visa to stay in Thailand.So I would think its fair enough for this guy to say to people do not cone to Thailand! Its a scam which continues undet the eyes and knoledge of rhe law here! As tbe OP says this agent is still trading.This is his son 23 years old and facing a long spell in prison. It would seem no ill intent was meant by the boy. Your country yes but very poor law inforcement and fair play

[Badbanker]

I have just got off the phone with people involved with their distressed nationals at a major embassy in Bangkok.

They have confirmed to me that the purchase of illicit Thai visas is common in Pattaya, Samui and Phuket. In their opinion the majority of people buying fake Thai visas, in Thailand, knowing enter into this arrangement and are aware it is illegal to do so. I number of people each year do get caught!

I work in Bangkok and to date am not aware of and have not seen cases like this in court. Frankly the majority of Bangkok police wouldn't know if your passport was fake, let alone know if you have a fake visa in it.

The embassy in question that wishes to remain anonymous said, that typically the nature of the crime causes the court to consider you as a flight risk, as it is alleged that you have done something or allowed something illegal to be done to your passport and as such you may have connections to illicit means of leaving the country and fleeing from justice, so in most cases bail is denied.

As I think I mentioned before in a previous post, having a good lawyer to prove and present the lack of malicious intent or you unknowing committing this crime, WILL make the difference to the sentence you get.

Sadly the embassy has reported people have got up to 18 months detention for this crimes of this nature on a number of occasions.

Thaivisa.com is here to allow us to understand the laws relating to visas in Thailand and we all come here to get a better understanding of this, to allow us to stay within the law.

BB

Edited May 24, 2011 by Badbanker

[JohnReeves]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

And at this stage in the proceedings he is NOT guilty either......he stands accused of a crime at this point in time......it up to a court of law to decide the guilt or innocence of the party.

LETS BE REAL THIS IS THAILAND,EVEN IF HE DID NOT SIGN THAT PAPER ,ALL TOURISTS OR FARANG ARE GUILTY.THIS IS HOW IT IS,IVE SEEN IT FAR TO MANY TIMES FOR TO MANY YEARS.AS I POSTED EARLIER LET HIM GO TO COURT SEND HIS FINE AND TICKET MONEY TO THE U.K. CONSULATE AND NEXT TIME WHEN HE TRAVELS SOME PLACE TELL HIM TO WISE UP AND DO THINGS CORRECTLY DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK ANYTHING ANYBOBY TELLS HIM.THIS REAL BE A UNCOMFORTABLE BUT GREAT LEARNING EXSPERIENCE FOR HIM AND MAYBE WILL KEEP HIM FROM DOING SOMETHING REALLY STUPID SOME PLACE ELSE.

JOHN