A Farang Living In Thailand

[bermondburi]

Getting back to the OP..... yes, I'm sure that most of us miss our home countries at some point.

Never mind how long we have been here we will always be seen as 'farang' by the locals, even if they like us!

I know Westerners that have lived here for over 20 years, and whilst they 'understand' the Thai way of thinking, still find it objectionable.... Which is why most Westerners that have been here for a few years seek out other Westerners.

Its sad but true.

By 'the locals', I'm assuming you have no Thai friends? And if not, why not?

'Oh, haha, by the way 'they' (sic) 'understand' the 'The Thai way of thinking' ... I'm calling ignorant, racist snob on this one.

I'm guessing that, and I may be wrong, that the only contact with 'the locals' you have are your cleaner and those serve/wait on you. I'm right, aren't I?

Whenever people bring up the Thai friend things I always smell a rat. They think they have a THai friend. Not what I would really call a friend. But this isn't a reflection on Thais being bad friends as such but more that I don't think Thais have Thai friends really. They have aquaintances they might do stuff with but when it comes to anything that I might expect from a friend then they would do that thing with their families. Thais' families are their friends. therefore I might not have any Thai friends *( like most foreigners I know who have been here x number of years ) but I do have many people in my Thai family who are my friends for doing friend stuff, if that makes sense.

And on a different note ( probably going to get slated here ) , this used to bother me, not having any Thai friends, but after x amount of years and x amount of experience in the country , I realised that I don't actually want any Thai friends. When it comes down to it I would much rather be watching football or going out to a bar with another westerner than a Thai. Just got more in common really. no big deal. No matter how long I've been here we do tend to things in different ways. Eating habits, drinking habits etc, what we enjoy doing.

Thai family for friends, much more reliable too.

what do you think ?

I have good Thai friends, but it's very easy for me because I speak Thai as well as my mother tongue. I agree that it is easier to have friends within the family. I find it hard to find good farang friends here, most is alcoholics and have a poor economy. I find often that farang will borrow money than Thai. But there is a taste issue how to choose friends. I have two good farang friends in the area, unfortunately, they live a distance from me.

It's not about speaking Thai for me this friend thing. I can also speak quite good Thai. I've noticed that where I live the people who tend to be friendly with the Thais speak very little Thai or drink a lot. This says something to me.

[aneliane]

I was amazed to notice that only one person out 20 in my office actually knew how to cook any Thai dish when I was asking for cooking tips.

When someone tells me something like this, I ask them questions about their own culture (for me mainly cooking) and most of times they don't have answers , I then explain my recipe and they usually look embarrassed ...

Why would that amaze you? Many people, especially in places like Bangkok, have eaten out almost every single meal of their entire lives. Unless their family owns a restaurant why would they learn when there is amazing and cheap food on every corner. Most people I know at home can't cook much either, but are kinda forced to to save money

What I am amazed at is not the fact they eat out all their life.

What I am amazed at is the fact that for a country which boast its own culture and reject farangs precisely because they supposedly don't know thai culture, they actually act very carelessly with their own tradition.

A farang wrote a book on the ancient nearly lost thai royal gastronomy which was about to be rotten in some royal library. It just seem that in some occasions, Farangs are sometimes more interested and put more effort in keeping thai culture than Thai themselves, which nullifies the argument of rejecting farangs because they don't know the culture regardless of the time and efforts they spend here

[Richard4849]

The "Thai culture" that farangs supposedly don't understand has nothing to do with ancient curry recipes.

It's how to behave, dress, speak, carry oneself, and know one's place in the hierarchy.

[aneliane]

The "Thai culture" that farangs supposedly don't understand has nothing to do with ancient curry recipes.

It's how to behave, dress, speak, carry oneself, and know one's place in the hierarchy.

To the contrary, Thai gastronomy is a very important part of Thai culture.

[Richard4849]

Agreed, but it's not what people are talking about when they say farangs don't understand/respect Thai culture. They're talking more about human interaction than eating.

[Gary A]

I'm retired and live here because I like it. I have a Thai wife and I'm quite happy with her. I'm not Thai nor do I want to be Thai. I respect my neighbors and they respect me. My wife's family knows very well that I am a crotchety old man and they give me the privacy that I need and demand. If things change to the extent that I can no longer live here, I can always go back to the US. The cost difference is no longer that wide.

That said, if I were a young person with children, I wouldn't live here. Without living near to a private school and spending a fortune on private schooling, your children will NOT receive a decent education. I enjoy living out in the boonies and there are no private schools in the area. If I had to move near a good private school, the main reason for living here would be lost.

[Travel2003]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

[Richard4849]

You speak the truth.

And populations particularly like foreigners who make an effort to assimilate

A foreign immigrant is treated very differently if he never makes an effort to learn the local language, retains traditional garb and habits, etc., than if he makes an effort to assimilate (while not necessarily throwing away his traditions/culture).

[aneliane]

Agreed, but it's not what people are talking about when they say farangs don't understand/respect Thai culture. They're talking more about human interaction than eating.

ok once again I was responding to the argument that regardless of how long they stay here farangs according to Thai will never be accepted by thai.

My point is if Thai don't cherish their very own tradition and culture (not just culinary) like it is happening, they cannot reject farangs for 'not being Thai enough / not knowing about Thai culture' when they hardly know what does "being Thai" means any more, and keep trying to imitate western way of life.

Edited June 9, 2011 by aneliane

[Travel2003]

I think I read somewhere that Bangkok has the world record in amount of food outlets per person.

Surely there must be someone keeping the country's traditional cuisine alive.

Out of a population of 66-68 million people, I seriously doubt this one foreigner is the only one in the kingdom aware of the old royal cuisine.

The country has exactly the same goal/targets as absolutely all the other countries in the world.

Thailand has artists, world famous chefs, athletes, car sales men, architects, bank staff, people with MDs/PHDs, and all the other sectors we find in any other developed country in the world.

We can discuss whether we are threated with respect here, or if the foreigners are behaving good or bad.

But let us not forget that people are not stupid/unintelligent just because they left school at 15, and work as street vendors, or working in bars.

My own mother left school after 8th grade, and she is a highly intelligent person.

She never worked in a bar. At least she never told me so.

[jdinasia]

The "Thai culture" that farangs supposedly don't understand has nothing to do with ancient curry recipes.

It's how to behave, dress, speak, carry oneself, and know one's place in the hierarchy.

To the contrary, Thai gastronomy is a very important part of Thai culture.

Thai food may be (is) an important facet of Thai culture --- ancient curry recipes are not. In fact the habits around eating are central to most cultures, but you simply don't need to know much about haggis to be culturally aware in Scotland

Richard nails it with how to behave, speak, carry oneself etc ....

[EirikJohannesen]

The "Thai culture" that farangs supposedly don't understand has nothing to do with ancient curry recipes.

It's how to behave, dress, speak, carry oneself, and know one's place in the hierarchy.

To the contrary, Thai gastronomy is a very important part of Thai culture.

You do not insult the Thai people if you're a bad cook.

You can cook for immigration maybe you get PR

[kerryk]

Agreed, but it's not what people are talking about when they say farangs don't understand/respect Thai culture. They're talking more about human interaction than eating.

ok once again I was responding to the argument that regardless of how long they stay here farangs according to Thai will never be accepted by thai.

My point is if Thai don't cherish their very own tradition and culture (not just culinary) like it is happening, they cannot reject farangs for 'not being Thai enough / not knowing about Thai culture' when they hardly know what does "being Thai" means any more, and keep trying to imitate western way of life.

I think Thais would cherish their culture and history if they knew anything about it.

For a variety of reasons they don't teach history in school so how are they supposed to learn? Ask a Thai what the Victory monument (one of the most famous landmarks in Thailand) commemorates.

It was only a generation ago that there were many anti Chinese laws on the books and widespread discrimination against the Chinese in Thailand.

I also don't see any hero worship of mainland Chinese when they come to Thailand on tours.

It is not like Thai teens try and emulate Chinese rock stars!

Thais don't know enough about Thailand to be Thai but they would if they could. They discriminate as it is. Gosh what would happen if they knew enough about their culture to discriminate in fact as well as fantasy.

[ozzieovaseas]

Agreed, but it's not what people are talking about when they say farangs don't understand/respect Thai culture. They're talking more about human interaction than eating.

ok once again I was responding to the argument that regardless of how long they stay here farangs according to Thai will never be accepted by thai.

My point is if Thai don't cherish their very own tradition and culture (not just culinary) like it is happening, they cannot reject farangs for 'not being Thai enough / not knowing about Thai culture' when they hardly know what does "being Thai" means any more, and keep trying to imitate western way of life.

I think Thais would cherish their culture and history if they knew anything about it.

For a variety of reasons they don't teach history in school so how are they supposed to learn? Ask a Thai what the Victory monument (one of the most famous landmarks in Thailand) commemorates.

It was only a generation ago that there were many anti Chinese laws on the books and widespread discrimination against the Chinese in Thailand.

I also don't see any hero worship of mainland Chinese when they come to Thailand on tours.

It is not like Thai teens try and emulate Chinese rock stars!

Thais don't know enough about Thailand to be Thai but they would if they could. They discriminate as it is. Gosh what would happen if they knew enough about their culture to discriminate in fact as well as fantasy.

The Thais i have associated with always seem to know about past wars and battles, since they can always recite history to justify their dislike for the Burmese (for example).

But i guess its like every country...schools and parents will only only preach a viewpoint that is covenient for one-eyed nationalism.

Actually i often can't fathom the reasoning behind this one eyed "Thai rak Thai" thinking, its just bizarre.

How can a culture be so Xenophobic but at the same time put so much importance on having a pale complexion? (huge skin whitening cream industry says a lot)

I guess there is the stigma of being dark from working the fields, but thats just another warped perception that really need to change.

Also the hero worship of these young Korean pop stars, the young white skinned Thais adored on the soaps, and then theres the younger Thais who always seem to be led into the latest crappy American bad boy/rap/techno rubbish.

If they hate other cultures so much, why do they try to emulate them so much?

[StreetCowboy]

Agreed, but it's not what people are talking about when they say farangs don't understand/respect Thai culture. They're talking more about human interaction than eating.

ok once again I was responding to the argument that regardless of how long they stay here farangs according to Thai will never be accepted by thai.

My point is if Thai don't cherish their very own tradition and culture (not just culinary) like it is happening, they cannot reject farangs for 'not being Thai enough / not knowing about Thai culture' when they hardly know what does "being Thai" means any more, and keep trying to imitate western way of life.

I think Thais would cherish their culture and history if they knew anything about it.

For a variety of reasons they don't teach history in school so how are they supposed to learn? Ask a Thai what the Victory monument (one of the most famous landmarks in Thailand) commemorates.

It was only a generation ago that there were many anti Chinese laws on the books and widespread discrimination against the Chinese in Thailand.

I also don't see any hero worship of mainland Chinese when they come to Thailand on tours.

It is not like Thai teens try and emulate Chinese rock stars!

Thais don't know enough about Thailand to be Thai but they would if they could. They discriminate as it is. Gosh what would happen if they knew enough about their culture to discriminate in fact as well as fantasy.

The Thais i have associated with always seem to know about past wars and battles, since they can always recite history to justify their dislike for the Burmese (for example).

But i guess its like every country...schools and parents will only only preach a viewpoint that is covenient for one-eyed nationalism.

Actually i often can't fathom the reasoning behind this one eyed "Thai rak Thai" thinking, its just bizarre.

How can a culture be so Xenophobic but at the same time put so much importance on having a pale complexion? (huge skin whitening cream industry says a lot)

I guess there is the stigma of being dark from working the fields, but thats just another warped perception that really need to change.

Also the hero worship of these young Korean pop stars, the young white skinned Thais adored on the soaps, and then theres the younger Thais who always seem to be led into the latest crappy American bad boy/rap/techno rubbish.

If they hate other cultures so much, why do they try to emulate them so much?

Young people, eh? And call that music? ...

etc.

SC

[F1fanatic]

Neither 'ouch' or funny. But everyone to their own.

I've no doubt you're right that all those Westerners who have lived here for 20 odd years think in Thai.

They think that lying is OK (not white lies, but lying to gain an advantage) and are proud to rip other people off if they gain a financial advantage....

I'm obviously meeting the wrong sort of long term ex-pat who still has Western values about lying and trust.

Some people aren't cut out for living abroad and since they can't blame their own decision making skills, they blame anyone and everyone else.

I have seen you directly refer to the wive's of expats as hookers ... and now your references to Thais in the post above .... I am amazed you choose to stay in a place where you seem to look down on everyone.

Once again, you're obviously right....

Yes, I believe that anyone who marries for money is a hooker and anyone who believes their young 'lady' loves them is a fool.

Obviously you are unable to understand that I stay here because I live in my idea of paradise. The people I meet or have to deal with are a secondary consideration.

[F1fanatic]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

Agree to a certain extent. You're absolutely right that the people of any country only accept foreigners as long as "they dont bother them in any way".

I also agree that Westerners that have lived here for a while become "arrogant" about their own superiority compared to the average Thai, and will admit that I'm one of them. HOWEVER, I know a few Thais that are intelligent, educated etc. and I would not dream of considering them "inferior"!

Fortunately the Thais also believe they are far superior so it doesn't actually matter.

Edited June 9, 2011 by F1fanatic

[bermondburi]

The "Thai culture" that farangs supposedly don't understand has nothing to do with ancient curry recipes.

It's how to behave, dress, speak, carry oneself, and know one's place in the hierarchy.

To the contrary, Thai gastronomy is a very important part of Thai culture.

You do not insult the Thai people if you're a bad cook.

You can cook for immigration maybe you get PR

mate of mine used to bake brownies to give to immigration every time he did his 90 day report to speed things up. Maybe we can learn something here. Maybe if he had done Thai food it would have been even quicker !

[bermondburi]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

Agree to a certain extent. You're absolutely right that the people of any country only accept foreigners as long as "they dont bother them in any way".

I also agree that Westerners that have lived here for a while become "arrogant" about their own superiority, and will admit that I'm one of them.

Fortunately the Thais also believe they are far superior so it doesn't actually matter.

we're just different at the end of the day.

[Travel2003]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

Agree to a certain extent. You're absolutely right that the people of any country only accept foreigners as long as "they dont bother them in any way".

I also agree that Westerners that have lived here for a while become "arrogant" about their own superiority, and will admit that I'm one of them.

Fortunately the Thais also believe they are far superior so it doesn't actually matter.

we're just different at the end of the day.

True, same same but different.

[F1fanatic]

And what would you say are the differences?

[StreetCowboy]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

Agree to a certain extent. You're absolutely right that the people of any country only accept foreigners as long as "they dont bother them in any way".

I also agree that Westerners that have lived here for a while become "arrogant" about their own superiority, and will admit that I'm one of them.

Fortunately the Thais also believe they are far superior so it doesn't actually matter.

we're just different at the end of the day.

" I'm not. "

Life of Brian, Monty Puthon

[Ulysses G.]

anyone who believes their young 'lady' loves them is a fool.

This is an example of the usual problem with making generalizations. What you say is not true about every "young lady" or every old "fool".

[kerryk]

Neither 'ouch' or funny. But everyone to their own.

I've no doubt you're right that all those Westerners who have lived here for 20 odd years think in Thai.

They think that lying is OK (not white lies, but lying to gain an advantage) and are proud to rip other people off if they gain a financial advantage....

I'm obviously meeting the wrong sort of long term ex-pat who still has Western values about lying and trust.

Some people aren't cut out for living abroad and since they can't blame their own decision making skills, they blame anyone and everyone else.

I have seen you directly refer to the wive's of expats as hookers ... and now your references to Thais in the post above .... I am amazed you choose to stay in a place where you seem to look down on everyone.

Once again, you're obviously right....

Yes, I believe that anyone who marries for money is a hooker and anyone who believes their young 'lady' loves them is a fool.

Obviously you are unable to understand that I stay here because I live in my idea of paradise. The people I meet or have to deal with are a secondary consideration.

Gee, I didn't know that. Mom, my two younger sisters and my second daughter are all hookers. Golly gee I just thought they were being prudent. Granny wasn't a hooker thank God. She married gramps because he was a semi great footballer.

Fame or fortune? Is that the same? I mean was granny a hooker too?

[Travel2003]

And what would you say are the differences?

The life situation we might find ourself in.

[jdinasia]

Neither 'ouch' or funny. But everyone to their own.

I've no doubt you're right that all those Westerners who have lived here for 20 odd years think in Thai.

They think that lying is OK (not white lies, but lying to gain an advantage) and are proud to rip other people off if they gain a financial advantage....

I'm obviously meeting the wrong sort of long term ex-pat who still has Western values about lying and trust.

Some people aren't cut out for living abroad and since they can't blame their own decision making skills, they blame anyone and everyone else.

I have seen you directly refer to the wive's of expats as hookers ... and now your references to Thais in the post above .... I am amazed you choose to stay in a place where you seem to look down on everyone.

Once again, you're obviously right....

Yes, I believe that anyone who marries for money is a hooker and anyone who believes their young 'lady' loves them is a fool.

Obviously you are unable to understand that I stay here because I live in my idea of paradise. The people I meet or have to deal with are a secondary consideration.

LOL ... Yes I can see the reflection of a content and happy life in every post you make about Thailand, Westerners and Thai people! Absolute paradise!

I am glad to know since I "married up" in that my BF makes more than me and his family has a higher net-worth than mine, that in YOUR eyes I would be a 'hooker'. Strangely, we are together for the oddest of reasons ... love, friendship, mutual respect, common interests, great conversations. Sex and attraction were a large part at first -- but now I would say that all of the other reasons far outweigh sex and attraction.

I guess that possibly you have absolutely everything you desire and deserve ... and that your looking down on Thais and Westerners that marry Thais improves your life in some meaningful way! Good on you!

[Warhammer820]

are we still arguing about this?

[bermondburi]

And what would you say are the differences?

whether you put balaa, crab claw and dried shrimp in your somtam obviously.

[StreetCowboy]

are we still arguing about this?

I can't remember what the argument was about. I had a look back at the Original Post, but it didn't seem to be relevant to the argument in hand - perhaps we could get the mods to delete the OP as being irrelevant and off-topic.

To summarise and forma better basis for discussion, I think we can say:

- some people are bitter and twisted and think Thailand is better than Western Countries

- some people are bitter and twisted and think Thailand is worse than Western Countries

- some people are bitter and twisted and think all countries are dreadful

- People who are not bitter and twisted tend to refrain from discussions such as this, or post irrelevant anecdotes in the hope of lightening the discussion.

Did I ever tell you about the Vietnamese couple that I met on the train from Glasgow to Edinburgh? It was a diesel 158 multiple unit. The interior was well-kept and quite bright and airy, but they are looking a bit dated now. I do like the four-seat tables, though, which encourage conversation with your fellow travellers, and give you more space in front of you.

SC

[Warhammer820]

love it, there seems to be several arguments that ave nothing to do with the OP. You are correct....this seems to happen all the time :/