Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[theoldgit]

To be candid, if you can't afford to have 800KBaht sitting in the bank, you should not be retired here.

Why?

[Pattaya46]

// I think you will agree that most retirees are going to be over the age of 60. The older age group is subject to some very expensive medical care requirements. How many older foreigners actually have proper health insurance, assuming that they can get it once they pass age 70? can they even afford it? Some of the available plans are very expensive.

Hi geriatrickid,

I agree with you that health coverage is a problem about some old falangs living here. Thai press already show several "strong" articles about cases of falangs who could not pay the very expensive cares they got in a Thai hospital

It would be logical for me that Thai immigration ask for the proof of such a health insurance as a condition to renew the 1-year O-A visa/authorization of stay.

[blabla1]

Yet another nail in the Thai/farang coffin, seems,they are looking for any little detail to piss us off.

We control you,do as we say or leave our country, inferior complex for sure!

[ardsong]

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

Right!

[phutoie2]

To be candid, if you can't afford to have 800KBaht sitting in the bank, you should not be retired here.

Why?

Ditto, perhaps some of us retired Brits do not want the equivelant of 16.5K GBP sitting around in a Thai Bank.

My own capital has earned more funds in the UK through investments in Bonds than most normal Thai Bank deposit accounts. Plus tax paid on interest can be claimed back, I have just sent off this years R43 to HMRC. That alone pays for a yearly air ticket back home.

Every year I do the income letter from the Brit Embassy for combined income for annual extension of visa (retirement) at Immigration.

If they require proof of payment into a Thai Bank that would not be too difficult either as my UK pension is also paid monthly into Bangkok Bank.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Another advantage!! of living in smallsville up country, annual Bank letters are free (for some)

[ardsong]

Yet another nail in the Thai/farang coffin, seems,they are looking for any little detail to piss us off.

We control you,do as we say or leave our country, inferior complex for sure!

Hi blabla1

but still it is multiple times easier to obtain a permit to stay for me in Thailand , than it would be for a Thai in similar situation to obtain a permit in my country (part of schengen)

[Jingthing]

The last sentence of the OP states, or a combination of monthly income and bank balance......

I thought this option was discontinued and it was either 65,000/month OR 800,000 baht in the bank??????

You thought wrong. Combo method lives.

[ardsong]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

I guess most farang would not be able to survive on Bt 8000 per month.

[ROMANOBA]

As usual, lack of common sense from thai autorities.My experience is that the SIMPLIEST question asked to a thai immigration officer is already enough to give him /her a headache.Aside from that 99 percent ot immmigration officers DO NOT speak or read english.Aside from that it's quite arrogant to doubt the legitimity of embassy documents.Aside from that it's not clear at all WHICH proof of pension must be submitted.I doubt that a thai officer can only read an original proof of pension.

This will be interesting.

The 'front of house' staff at the immigration office I am required to attend for my annual visa extension based on retirement (Nakhon Pathom) struggle to understand my (British) embassy letter, then to do check my arithmetic on the conversion of UK Pounds to Thai Baht. To expect them to decipher a British Inland Revenue P60 should really throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

To top it all, more than half of my annual income comes from sources other than my UK pension.

Proof readily available(as provided to the British Embassy) in the form of fixed deposit contracts and interest statements, but again, not the easiest of documents to understand if English skills of the reader aren't up to it.

Because of the inevitable variations in English language ability amongst the immigration bureau staff, and the differences in 'supporting documents' supplied by different countries, I'm afraid that I can 'smell' the approaching requirement for all documents to be translated into Thai, and notarised by the Department of Consular Affairs before presenting to Immigration.

Oh dear......

[ronz28]

An 800,000 baht deposit at even 0% interest to enable you to live in Thailand at a cost of living that is perhaps 25%+/- less than farangland may be far better to you than paying the 25%+/- premium living in farangland. It all depends on your situation. My only concern is compromise of ID info if we moved to Thailand and had to submit actual supporting info.

[Felt 35]

So theoretically it’s still possible to use proof of income or pension from your embassy (false or not) as long as you can show 2 monthly transfers of 65K to your Thai Bank account either with a updated Thai Bankbook or / and Thai Bank letter? Tightening the rules…..eh?

If the Immigration really want to tighten the rules everyone would have to obtain their visas in their respective home countries for wherever can an actual visa applicant be checked out 100% if not in his/her home country! Just as the Thais are througoutly checked before they get a visa to USA, Europe etc.

Immigration here is only a money spinner have always been and will always be. For what does 800K transferred to a Thai Bank in reality say about how financial strong, legal and genuine a person is when there is no question about where the money comes from?

[Jingthing]

My understanding from reading the OP is that the only proof asked of certain nationalities using pensions to qualify is IMPORT into a THAI bank account the FULL amount of the claimed pension for TWO MONTHS prior to application. All this talk about other proofs isn't mentioned in the OP. Like I said in the OP, I expect the blowback, speculation, and false rumors from this loaded announcement to perhaps last years. Frankly, it is VERY annoying. If immigration is really going to make a change, make an OFFICIAL announcement in plain English. I can see why Thaivisa owners like this, confusion, fears, gossip, and rumors from this will generate tens of thousands of posts ... Actual retired expats want CLARITY.

[blabla1]

I know, point being,it's another hurdle to jump over.

Yet another nail in the Thai/farang coffin, seems,they are looking for any little detail to piss us off.

We control you,do as we say or leave our country, inferior complex for sure!

Hi blabla1

but still it is multiple times easier to obtain a permit to stay for me in Thailand , than it would be for a Thai in similar situation to obtain a permit in my country (part of schengen)

[BlueSmurf]

If the Thai government don't want foreigners staying in Thailand, than why they just don't kick them out of the country? They need all there little rules and requirements to make life impossible. Its not a matter if foreigners are going to be kicked out of the country but its a matter of when?

The government like to create chaos in the visa application process so nobody understand the process or is notified. This chaos creates a possibility for the immigration police to abuse there power and ask for the extra "fee" when something is not according the absurd rules and requirements and to straighten it all up again. I guess the circle is closed again!

It seems quiet clear that this is all about making the rules applicable to everyone.I. E. Not being able to circumvent proof of income by swearing at your enbassy that you have the required income......Its fair and not before time...This is not about kicking Farangs out but a simple refining of the rules....Clarity for everyone including Thai immirgration....No chaos not kicking people out unless of course you suffer from delusion! Have a nice day!

[theoldgit]

This is not about kicking Farangs out but a simple refining of the rules....Clarity for everyone including Thai immirgration....No chaos not kicking people out unless of course you suffer from delusion! Have a nice day!

Good, so the rules have been refined, I would be grateful if you point me in the direction of the offical statement, I will admit as to not being able to find it.

So far all I can find is hearsay, speculation and rumour.

[bitterbatter]

Is this new rule already in effect or is there a little time before they enforce it?

[samran]

oh dear. A bunch of crusty old blokes complaining that they can't scam the system anymore....

That is essentially what this thread will boil down to.

[bkkharry]

Once again, pure panic on Thai Visa. This is becoming a standard art form here. All based on rumor and lack of real facts. Panic as usual. Relax and wait for some real facts, not rumors and speculation.

[electau]

The Thai use of the word "pension" what is their definition? They should use the word "income". A pension is only one type of income. And there are different types of pension.

You can be 50 years or older and not qualify for a pension from your home country, but you will have income from other sources.

And that is what they are looking at, proof of income.

If you go the Thai bank route of 800000 THB (minimum) it must be in your Thai bank for a period of 3 months before you apply for your extension. OR, 65000THB per month (minimum) from outside of Thailand. OR, an income stream from outside of Thailand of up to 65000THB per month and a balance in a Thai bank so the total is a combined minimum of 800000THB.

If you have a Thai bank book why is the so called letter from the bank required? All transactions are recorded in the book , which is a statement of your account.

　

　

　

　

[KKK]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

And over double the UKs "income support threshold" See http://www.pensionsorter.co.uk/statepension.cfm

[kdc1899]

This is only Bangkok immigration?? I assume the marriage extension of 40,000 a month pension is not under scrutiny ???

Don't count on them giving you the marriage visa based on 40,000 pension income...it depends on the officer and what he had for breakfast that day. Last year I showed them a letter from the embassy AND proof of a little over 40,000 and he said it "wasn't enough if I had an emergency" and wanted to see my bank book. Fortunately, because I was looking to buy a house at the time, I had way over 800,000 in my Thai account so then he said " OK I am going to give you a retirement visa" NOT a marriage visa. We believe he did that because the marriage visa involves much more paperwork for them and I never give them any tea money. So now I keep 800K in a Bangkok bank account that makes 2.5%... not a bad return in these times of low interest. That's the simplest, safest way to do it but I'm waiting for them to change that game someday also... like raising it to a million!

Tea Money IS the only point here.

Simple

There is no issue. If one is willing to lie under oath to an embassy official, that person should have zero problem offering tea money to get whatever result he wants in this country.

If one meets all the visa requirements then enforcement of rules already in place has zero effect.

[softgeorge]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

I agree double standards. But maybe it would be harder to charge double prices from a farang if he/she was only living off double the income. 65,000 bht pension per month is a lot. Pensioners in Australia would be lucky to get 25,000 don't know where they come up with the 65,000.

It disappointing when people have access to the internet but don't take a few minutes to get correct information. The Aussie pension for a single person would be equivalent to around 43,000 bht/mth (not 25,000) and around 66,000 bht/mth for a couple. On top of this there are many additional supplements and concessions (eg. rent, electricity, telephone, travel, children, etc) and of course free health services. And not forgetting that many businesses give discounts for 'seniors'. I imagine this is similar to other 'farang/western' countries. You won't live the high life on a pension but you can live comfortably enough if you manage your money carefully.

Our 'western' countries have had the benefit of many of us working and paying taxes for 30 or 40 years or more and so there is an obligation to support us in retirement. And 'western' countries are relatively wealthy and can afford to do so. Thailand on the other hand has not had us working for it for 40 years and is not a wealthy country. Seems very reasonable to me therefore that Thailand simply wants to ensure foreigners can support themselves (and any local dependents). The basic 800,000 bht balance for 3 months/year does not seem unreasonable and has not increased over the years despite inflation increasing living costs in Thailand. Certainly the strengthening of the Thai baht exchange rate has made this more difficult for some farang but this is not a decision of the immigration dept.

My father on the aged pension gets $430 AUD f/night $860 per month that equates to around 27,000 baht give or take a few baht either way still way off 65,000 and if he was to move to Thailand to live then that pension would be reduced as they base it on the cost of living in the country you choose to live.

[Jingthing]

oh dear. A bunch of crusty old blokes complaining that they can't scam the system anymore....

That is essentially what this thread will boil down to.

Actually I think you are totally wrong. Plus ageist to boot.

You ignore the core big news of the thread. IMPORTATION of pension as opposed to PROOF of pension.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[blabla1]

Sorry, pension or income??, after proving my income being over one million per year and a letter from the Australian consulate,they said to me,this is not a pension, we cannot accept an income!! I cannot put 800,000Bhat in a Thai bank account, my money has to work, but i can fund and prove my living here!!!

The Thai use of the word "pension" what is their definition? They should use the word "income". A pension is only one type of income. And there are different types of pension.

You can be 50 years or older and not qualify for a pension from your home country, but you will have income from other sources.

And that is what they are looking at, proof of income.

If you go the Thai bank route of 800000 THB (minimum) it must be in your Thai bank for a period of 3 months before you apply for your extension. OR, 65000THB per month (minimum) from outside of Thailand. OR, an income stream from outside of Thailand of up to 65000THB per month and a balance in a Thai bank so the total is a combined minimum of 800000THB.

If you have a Thai bank book why is the so called letter from the bank required? All transactions are recorded in the book , which is a statement of your account.

　

　

　

　

Edited June 7, 2011 by blabla1

[SantiSuk]

................Incidentally my deposit account here is earning three times the interest it would in England at the moment.

Bit of a side issue, but to correct any false impressions your post might leave, it is possible to get about 3%pa on deposit accounts in the UK (even with instant access - eg Tesco at 2.9%). You are probably getting no better than that in Thailand.

Possibly your post is factually correct because your money was previously languishing in a UK deposit account at 0.01% to 0.25% (the ones that banks use to catch out the unwary and the ones similar to those also operated by many Thai banks) and now you have shopped around in Thailand and got much better.

Either way rates available on deposited savings do not compensate for inflation in the UK, Thailand or most other countries of the world. We savers are required to pay the price of the borrowing majorities' avarice and greed over the last 20 years and bale out the economies by allowing low interest strategies to continue.

[granuaile]

I am wondering what is considered acceptable proof of income. I checked the Bangkok immigration website last night and seemed very broad, drawing on memory (which might be wrong), and seemed just proof was needed. So that raises the question whether a copy of a US tax return certified b the embassy would be sufficient. For me, my pension is just one part of my income and most of what I do receive goes to banks (the reason I shredded and cancelled all my credit cards) as well as family. I certainly did not come to Thailand to escape my obligations back home, so I do not bring in more than I need (and I do live modestly, occasionally going to clubs, but overall prefer to live like my Thai friends - not all farang live extravagant lifestyles of debauchery). If they will accept a certified copy of the tax returns I think I should be fine. Otherwise I will look at various other options such as dividing time between here and Jakarta, volunteering at a government agency (I already help a friend's office a bit, so maybe see if can formalize that), even a job (ouch I worked to have freedom and time to do things like write - something I know I am very bad at but still a dream - and to sleep when I want and get up when I want - I watched my father work his life away, and I don't wanna do that)... Anyway any thoughts about acceptable proofs...

[moe666]

On this page alone we had more hurdles to jump over, whine-whine they donot want us here, what is considered ok a pension or income. Donot any of you people read the post already submitted. Please quit using the they donot want us here number this is one whine that has never been proven.hehehehe another day at TV yjr best free enertainment on the web.

[Rdrokit]

The last sentence of the OP states, or a combination of monthly income and bank balance......

I thought this option was discontinued and it was either 65,000/month OR 800,000 baht in the bank??????

Anyone have the answer to this question? I thought the combination option was no more??

Edited June 7, 2011 by Rdrokit

[moe666]

I am wondering what is considered acceptable proof of income. I checked the Bangkok immigration website last night and seemed very broad, drawing on memory (which might be wrong), and seemed just proof was needed. So that raises the question whether a copy of a US tax return certified b the embassy would be sufficient. For me, my pension is just one part of my income and most of what I do receive goes to banks (the reason I shredded and cancelled all my credit cards) as well as family. I certainly did not come to Thailand to escape my obligations back home, so I do not bring in more than I need (and I do live modestly, occasionally going to clubs, but overall prefer to live like my Thai friends - not all farang live extravagant lifestyles of debauchery). If they will accept a certified copy of the tax returns I think I should be fine. Otherwise I will look at various other options such as dividing time between here and Jakarta, volunteering at a government agency (I already help a friend's office a bit, so maybe see if can formalize that), even a job (ouch I worked to have freedom and time to do things like write - something I know I am very bad at but still a dream - and to sleep when I want and get up when I want - I watched my father work his life away, and I don't wanna do that)... Anyway any thoughts about acceptable proofs...

Donot over react nothing has changed as far as anyone knows. The enbassy still only wants you to swear to your income. Even if immigration ask for something a bank statement showing deposits of money to match what you have declared should be ok. If thats not enough 1099s should be enough. But nothing has changed as far as anyone knows. Take a breath and exhale.

[blabla1]

You must really feel wanted here... :lol:

On this page alone we had more hurdles to jump over, whine-whine they donot want us here, what is considered ok a pension or income. Donot any of you people read the post already submitted. Please quit using the they donot want us here number this is one whine that has never been proven.hehehehe another day at TV yjr best free enertainment on the web.