Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[JimGant]

"I also affirm"... is an "attestation" made by you who need the letter for the extension of stay, not by the consulate. The Dutch consular official "legalises", ie authenticates your signature. He verifies your identity and with his signature and the consular seal confirms that it is you who signed the letter, nothing more. The US consular official in addition makes you swear an oath that the information in your statement is correct and adds this fact, ie that you swore an oath, to the authentication of your signature.

Now, that is an interesting -- and subtle -- distinction. Both the Dutch and US income "affirmation" statements are identical. That one attests that "he swore an oath" while the other one attests only to the validity of his signature surely will be lost on Immigration.

If not, will the Yanks' income statement now be perceived as worthless -- or will the Dutch be viewed as also having raised their right hand? Hmmmm.

[moe666]

I would have to say there has to be at least one Thai in immigration who will know the difference between swearing and just an affirmation. Although they will not be nominated for a Nobel Prize as per Jing, they must have someone who has some english knowledge who can pass on the word.

But at this point in time may never be neded.

[Mario2008]

"I also affirm"... is an "attestation" made by you who need the letter for the extension of stay, not by the consulate. The Dutch consular official "legalises", ie authenticates your signature. He verifies your identity and with his signature and the consular seal confirms that it is you who signed the letter, nothing more. The US consular official in addition makes you swear an oath that the information in your statement is correct and adds this fact, ie that you swore an oath, to the authentication of your signature.

Now, that is an interesting -- and subtle -- distinction. Both the Dutch and US income "affirmation" statements are identical. That one attests that "he swore an oath" while the other one attests only to the validity of his signature surely will be lost on Immigration.

If not, will the Yanks' income statement now be perceived as worthless -- or will the Dutch be viewed as also having raised their right hand? Hmmmm.

The Dutch embassy requires proof of income. Without it you don't get the embassy letter.

[theoldgit]

As I said in post number 2.

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

I'm assuming that bank statements indicating receipt of pension are now required, certainly more meaningful than a letter from the embassy.

Maybe Thai Immigration will update their website to show the "new rule".

Edited June 15, 2011 by theoldgit

[jfchandler]

The Dutch embassy requires proof of income. Without it you don't get the embassy letter.

Mario, re the Dutch consulate, TV member Middelman, in posts 602, 604 and 612 above, seems to be saying they've changed their policy on that...

They confirm only that you wrote the form. You have to proof to immigration the amount you filled in on the form.

Edited June 15, 2011 by jfchandler

[Prajak]

This is the letter I got from the Dutch embassy; yes, it's in Dutch.....with my simple translation.....

==

Onlangs is door de Thaise Immigratie Autoriteiten de controle verscherpt op het jaarinkomen van buitenlanders die een zogenaamd 'retirement' visum willen verlengen. Voorheen werden de jaaropgaven niet of nauwelijks door de Thaise Immigratie Autoriteiten bekeken, dat is nu veranderd.

Thai authorities want more checks on the year-income of foreigners who like to extend a ret "visa". Until now this income statement had hardly been checked by the Imm police; that has changed now.

Het is gebleken dat een groot aantal buitenlanders valse of niet voldoende onderbouwde inkomensgegevens heeft overlegd. Ook bij deze ambassade zijn valse en vervalste documenten aangeleverd om een 'income statement' voor de Thaise Immigratie te bemachtigen.

This is about fraud.........there has been fraud with income "documents"

Op het nieuwe formulier tekent de Nederlandse burger zelf een verklaring inzake zijn/haar jaarinkomen en de ambassade legaliseert daarna de handtekening. Vervolgens kan het aangeleverd worden bij de Thaise Immigratie Autoriteiten.

The Dutch citizen signs the statement about his income and the embassy verifies his signature.

(It does not say that the embassy cheks the income papers.) I know the Belgian embassy does !

De verantwoordelijkheid over juiste weergave van inkomen ligt bij de burger zelf en de Thaise Immigratie Autoriteiten controleren daarna jaaropgave/bankrekening etc.

Responsible for the figures is the Dutch citizen only. The Imm Police cheks the annual income statement and bankaccounts etc.

===

How can a Thai official, with all due respect, check a Dutch/Chinese/Japanese bankaccount and income papers ? I meet officials with knowledge of English as poor as mine.......

Edited June 15, 2011 by Prajak

[Prajak]

Something else about this change.

My income statements were until now stating my YEAR income; now the Imm Police wants me to state my MONTHLY income. Income is, according to the Nongkhai Imm Police, and I quote their letter,

"pension, interest, investment pay off, etc"

Pensions tend to come monthly although you might get, in July, an "inflation correction" or a raise so that the actual pension should be calculated as the year amount divided by 12.

Investment pay off's, as dividends, usually get paid when the books are closed so once per year. Interest on a deposied account usually comes once per year.

What would they like to see in my bankaccount ? I can show my pension every month, but investments pay off and interest deposit only once a year or when the year is over. How should they handle this kind of income ?

And than the "etc....." ?

And...

nowadays people, like me, don't have bankstatements of annual income statements by post. We live in 2011; I get this stuff by email of download it from the website of the banks. I can "prove" the money came in by giving them a bank statement from ... internet ! I can also prove I brought the money into Thailand...that's on hard copy in a confirmation of the Thai bank.

I am afraid we get a lot of problems with this new rule. It will, for me, end up with 800 k in the bank next year.

[jfchandler]

What's the problem here?

First off, there is no new "rule," contrary to the OP here...

Second, for whatever proof you want to bring to Immigration or that they ask you to provide, I'm sure printed out copies of your bank or other account statements will suffice for their purposes... I seriously doubt they're going to insist on originals, provided the copies you print out are of reasonable quality and clarity.

[Pattaya46]

How can a Thai official, with all due respect, check a Dutch/Chinese/Japanese bankaccount and income papers ? I meet officials with knowledge of English as poor as mine....

I agree. It should be ok for most guys with a pension (easy) but some others have very complicated income, in several countries, several languages, several currency, several periodicity, ... and they would need expert accountant to understand/verify that!

If embassies do not verify income anymore, the easiest and logical solution for Thai Immigration would be to impose that at least 65,000 ฿ are transfered every month in a Thai bank! (for those who not use the 800,000 on 3 month option).

Many people would not be happy with this solution, but sure it's what I would propose if I was high ranked in Thai Immigration. Easy to applicate; Simple to verify; No easy fraud because of use of Thai banks.

I would not be surprised if we have to do with such a solution in a not so far future...

[SurfRider]

.

"This is the letter I got from the Dutch embassy; yes, it's in Dutch"

For whatever it's worth (if anything), here's the Google translation from Dutch :

Recently, the Thai Immigration Authorities stepped up controls on the annual income of foreigners a 'retirement' visa would be extended. Previously, the annual statements hardly viewed by the Thai Immigration Authorities, which has now changed.

It appears that a large number of foreigners false or not sufficiently substantiated income data submitted. Also in this embassy are false and forged documents delivered to an 'income statement for the Thai Immigration to obtain.

The new certificate signing Dutch citizens own a declaration on their annual income and legalizes the embassy after the signature. Could then be delivered to the Thai Immigration authorities.

The responsibility for accurate reflection of income lies with the citizen and the Thai Immigration authorities then check annual statement / bank account etc.

.

[mojaco]

That second paragraph seems like the Dutch Embassy ran across some falsified papers submitted by claimants to get the Embassy "certification"?

I suspect that if Thai Immigration, through this new verification process, finds just one or two fraudulent claims and puts the claimant in a Thai jail for deportation, that any fraud will swiftly come to an end. One might feel comfortable lying to one's one embassy but not to a Thai officer. It would certainly put a lot of fear into me if I was up to lying about my pension (which I don't).

[bangkokburning]

Can't believe this speculative thread still going...

OR...they can just simplify the whole entire process. Something is very wrong when you ask different officers in the every same building and get different answers. Let alone the discrepancies between regions. Their job, their "profession". Like children, only serious about their jobs when they get to scold you for making an honest error or not understanding their convoluted, bloated and outdated process.

They also might get a clue and lower the retirement requirement or peg it to an outside currency. I can easily live in the US on 65K a month. Yesterday, Thai tourism board crying about the lack of tourists. I travel a great deal within Thailand. It is to laugh. It is so pathetic.

Edited June 16, 2011 by bangkokburning

[Ned]

I agree with Pattaya46 on this.......an easy solution for the authorities: 65K transferred into a Thai bank every month. It would be easy to verify and no need for embassy letters. For those who are now getting by on three or four hundred thousand a year it'll mean a big bank balance after a few years.

[lopburi3]

Today at Chiang Watanna.

Passport/arrival card/copies signed

US Embassy letter of income

Normal downloaded TM7 signed with phone number top page 2 and photo

1,900 baht

Fill out two forms (bio/guarantee and notice loss of reason for extension subject to Thai law)

No questions, one photo taken but no finger prints and finished in about 10 minutes.

[jfchandler]

Another confirmation that the OP in this thread is at least overstated and likely just flatly inaccurate....

Thai Immigration has always had the right to ask for and demand documentation of stated income, in cases where they decide to exercise that right.

But that's a whole different matter than the discredited notion of the OP that such verification is now the norm, or even more far-fetched, the notion that they're somehow demanding to see the income being brought into Thailand.

Could things change in the future.... yes, they certainly could. Is there any meaningful evidence that there's been a wholesale policy change at present... none.

Edited June 16, 2011 by jfchandler

[Rooo]

Just a quick note, maybe previously mentioned. Australian letter is a Statuary Declaration, you worded yourself.

I had to go down that path for a couple of years here on Samui & they required my bank book , to verify that I am in receipt of these funds.

His words ( Immigration Officer) : Don't care what the letter says still want to see the money in the bank. So you have according to his interpretation of the directive to deposit of 65K a month.

Argue the point with them? I don't think so.

[barryofthailand]

Just a quick note, maybe previously mentioned. Australian letter is a Statuary Declaration, you worded yourself.

I had to go down that path for a couple of years here on Samui & they required my bank book , to verify that I am in receipt of these funds.

His words ( Immigration Officer) : Don't care what the letter says still want to see the money in the bank. So you have according to his interpretation of the directive to deposit of 65K a month.

Argue the point with them? I don't think so.

Wants to see the money in what bank. Your Thai Bank, or your bank account in your home country?

Barry

[Jingthing]

Different immigration offices interpret the "rules" differently. Money in the bank for those using the income method? That isn't a national rule at this time.

[Rooo]

Just a quick note, maybe previously mentioned. Australian letter is a Statuary Declaration, you worded yourself.

I had to go down that path for a couple of years here on Samui & they required my bank book , to verify that I am in receipt of these funds.

His words ( Immigration Officer) : Don't care what the letter says still want to see the money in the bank. So you have according to his interpretation of the directive to deposit of 65K a month.

Argue the point with them? I don't think so.

Wants to see the money in what bank. Your Thai Bank, or your bank account in your home country?

Barry

Money in Thai bank account.

[Penkoprod]

I agree with Pattaya46 on this.......an easy solution for the authorities: 65K transferred into a Thai bank every month. It would be easy to verify and no need for embassy letters. For those who are now getting by on three or four hundred thousand a year it'll mean a big bank balance after a few years.

Have you ever stopped to think of the added cost of transfering the money twelve times a year?

Penkoprod

[Jingthing]

Sometimes immigration requires seeing a Thai bank account with a small amount of money even for income only qualifiers. That is an entirely different thing than requiring to see full pension flows in there. The latter is generally NOT happening currently.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[SurfRider]

.

"Wants to see the money in what bank ... in your home country? ... Money in Thai bank account"

Not to further complicate the bank account issue - but I learned recently from the former Honorary British Consul in Pattaya that Immigration will accept a balance in a U.S. Dollar account in a Thai bank to satisfy the requirement for the 800K deposit method, or the Combo method. This could be useful for anyone who wants to easily transfer funds in and out of Thailand, because conversion to and from Thai Baht is not necessary-- thus you don't lose the amount of the current bid/ask spread that occurs with currency conversion.

It is my understanding that U.S. Dollar accounts are generally only available at main branches of Thai banks in Bangkok-- but the manager of the branch of Bangkok Bank on 2nd road in Pattaya announced at a recent Expat meeting that U.S. Dollar accounts would soon be available at that bank.

.

Edited June 16, 2011 by SurfRider

[rayw]

Sometimes immigration requires seeing a Thai bank account with a small amount of money even for income only qualifiers. That is an entirely different thing than requiring to see full pension flows in there. The latter is generally NOT happening currently.

It can never happen as many of us do not transfer money into a Thai Bank at all yet fully meet the Retirement Visa TB65K per month income requirement. How? Easily we use our home country based Visa/Mastercard credit cards to buy practically everything here in Thailand from Groceries and Petrol to Health Insurance and Telephone bills and then settle up in your home country with a fair proportion of your equivalent TB65K per month income paid into your home country bank account by say your pension fund people. This is all of course effectively just the same as bringing foreign income into the country by transferring it here to your bank account and then spending it using cash to pay everything. Also for unavoidable cash needs here, and I must say I personally use little, I draw that out from an ATM with my UK credit card too (use Aeon Bank and no rip off TB150 ATM fee either) and that is then settled monthly in the UK with my other Thai day to day credit card purchases. Overall this is all far cheaper than paying exorbitant utter rip off UK bank transfer charges and again some small (though quite reasonable) commission charges this end too. Cannot wait for the new mobile phone near contact technology to make life even easier buying stuff here.

This year was the first year I did not need a combo based 800K Baht visa renewal as now I have turned 65 years old and have my state pension too, so my UK pension income now easily exceeds the 65K Baht a month requirement. And guess what, they did not expect or want to see any Thai bank account book. In fact if I preferred I do not even need a Thai Bank account now unless say the pound devalues more than my annual inflation based pension rises and I dropped back below the required monthly income figure again. I do keep a Thai bank account though for convenience as I can use their Internet Banking service and pay bills here that way rather than a total waste of life long queueing at places like ToT offices, where they do not even take credit cards either !!! Unfortunately the local Electric supply company seem to be living 50 years in the past and not heard of Internet Banking bill payment or the acceptance of credit cards either and they are a PITA because of it, but at least can pay at say Seven Eleven where any queues are usually very small but even so still a bloody waste of time and should be unnecessary these days. I have better things to do with my time by enjoying life not spending ages queueing !!!

So as you see it would neither be practical or needed or even necessary to insist 65K per month is transferred to a Thai bank account and Thai immigration are not so stupid as to not realise this and thus it is not and will not be a requirement I am sure. However proper proof of income is a reasonable requirement so if you have to show your Pension or other income proof to the Thai immigration in the future (doubtful for most of us) then you should not have to then incur the cost of an Embassy proof of income letter any more hmm ?? So would be less cost each year and I am therefore all for it. No this wont happen for the majority of us as normal Embassy letters like those issued by most Embassies here already sensibly and intelligently insist on seeing documentary evidence of income and confirming that sighting in their income proof letters. It will just be the Americans. Canadians, Australians etc who do not insist on sighting valid documentary proof of income that will be affected, and come on now lets be real and say this is quite understandable and reasonable by the Thai immigration and anyway no problem for those of you who have been telling the truth about your income and thus properly meet the Thai visa requirements by simply and easily showing them documentary evidence of income. I have to show up to date documentary proof of my UK pensions income to the British Embassy or Consulate and based on their sighting of these valid original documents only then will they issue a letter confirming my true relevant UK income which is then fully certified by The British Government. So not just totally naively certified by the visa applicant just swearing that is his income, which is not difficult to expect that to be accepted by Thai immigration as that is laughable surely and would not happen in your home countries for visa requests by foreigners.

So to sum up the whole current thread topic issue should be no problem to any of us here unless they are retired here on false pretences. Sure you can live here on much less than TB 65K per month but that does not allow for any emergencies or unexpected expenses here and anyway that IS the figure not unreasonably laid down by the Thai Immigration folk and not up for debate. If you do not have the TB 800K cash in the bank, or TB 65K per month income or a combo, or maybe instead a spouse visa with a 400K requirement, then no way should you be permanently living here unless you are working here with a legal work permit of course. All seems fair, sensible and reasonable to me and no justification for anyone to complain about it, unless I am truly missing something. I know I do not have enough capital or income to live say in Australia or the USA but I accept that fact and do not complain that it is unfair as it is clearly not unfair at all. We all have to be able to live within the confines of our income and/or savings and of course complying with a country's clearly published legal visa requirements.

Edited June 16, 2011 by rayw

[bangkokburning]

Embassies do to not want to be in a position of facilitating Thailand's bullshit requirements. Their missions are matters of state - not providing some note from a teacher that Jim Beerbelly has enough funds for his prostitutes and beer. I bet this letter is looked upon with total disdain by the diplomatic community.

As more and more nations get these petty requests, there will be blow back I am certain. In time, I imagine that no such letter will be forthcoming at all. It's already at joke level, if you "get it".

Embassies will never require any documents because they will never want to be put in the position of verifying anything as it costs money, puts them on the hook. This is Thailands abortion, why would other clever, competent nations want to be all wrapped up in this clusterf**k??

I also affirm that I receive US$ _________________ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources. I am applying for a Thai visa/ an extension of a current Thai visa and any assistance you can provide in this request will be greatly appreciated

If all you are required to do is sign the affirmation and not swear - you can actually weasel-word your way out of it later. Gee...I THOUGHT I had that in the bank...silly me!

af·firm (-fûrm)v. af·firmed, af·firm·ing, af·firms v.tr.1. To declare positively or firmly; maintain to be true.2. To support or uphold the validity of; confirm.v.intr. Law To declare solemnly and formally but not under oath.

And therein lies the issue - Thai Immigration is awakening to this fact.

[bangkokburning]

So to sum up the whole current thread topic issue should be no problem to any of us here unless they are retired here on false pretences. Sure you can live here on much less than TB 65K per month but that does not allow for any emergencies or unexpected expenses here and anyway that IS the figure not unreasonably laid down by the Thai Immigration folk and not up for debate. If you do not have the TB 800K cash in the bank, or TB 65K per month income or a combo, or maybe instead a spouse visa with a 400K requirement, then no way should you be permanently living here unless you are working here with a legal work permit of course. All seems fair, sensible and reasonable to me and no justification for anyone to complain about it, unless I am truly missing something. I know I do not have enough capital or income to live say in Australia or the USA but I accept that fact and do not complain that it is unfair as it is clearly not unfair at all. We all have to be able to live within the confines of our income and/or savings and of course complying with a country's clearly published legal visa requirements.

What a tool. This is a third world nation, it's corruption rating ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index ) is 78 out of nearly 200. China is now thought to be less corrupt and Thailand is only a peg or two above India and a number of African countries. And you bow low.

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

[moe666]

So to sum up the whole current thread topic issue should be no problem to any of us here unless they are retired here on false pretences. Sure you can live here on much less than TB 65K per month but that does not allow for any emergencies or unexpected expenses here and anyway that IS the figure not unreasonably laid down by the Thai Immigration folk and not up for debate. If you do not have the TB 800K cash in the bank, or TB 65K per month income or a combo, or maybe instead a spouse visa with a 400K requirement, then no way should you be permanently living here unless you are working here with a legal work permit of course. All seems fair, sensible and reasonable to me and no justification for anyone to complain about it, unless I am truly missing something. I know I do not have enough capital or income to live say in Australia or the USA but I accept that fact and do not complain that it is unfair as it is clearly not unfair at all. We all have to be able to live within the confines of our income and/or savings and of course complying with a country's clearly published legal visa requirements.

What a tool. This is a third world nation, it's corruption rating ( http://en.wikipedia....rceptions_Index ) is 78 out of nearly 200. China is now thought to be less corrupt and Thailand is only a peg or two above India and a number of African countries. And you bow low.

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

You might mention this to them the next time you go to immigration.

[tropo]

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

I'm only a moderate spender and don't throw money around. There is no way I could possibly live on 350K per annum in Thailand. My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

REALLY!

[Maestro]

The Dutch embassy requires proof of income. Without it you don't get the embassy letter.

Mario, re the Dutch consulate, TV member Middelman, in posts 602, 604 and 612 above, seems to be saying they've changed their policy on that...

They confirm only that you wrote the form. You have to proof to immigration the amount you filled in on the form.

Actually, Midelman said that the email he got from the Dutch embassy states that the embassy will no longer say in the letter that they confirm the income. They will only authenticate the signature of the person who wrote the affidavit. Midelman later clarified that he has not yet needed to get the embassy letter since this change was made. It is quite possible that the embassy may still want to see proof of the income, but declines to confirm it in the letter. Time will tell, when other Dutch members report their experience based on the new system used by the embassy.

[Jingthing]

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

I'm only a moderate spender and don't throw money around. There is no way I could possibly live on 350K per annum in Thailand. My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

REALLY!

Many retirees don't rent, mate. Everyone is not you.

[Jingthing]

Sometimes immigration requires seeing a Thai bank account with a small amount of money even for income only qualifiers. That is an entirely different thing than requiring to see full pension flows in there. The latter is generally NOT happening currently.

It can never happen as many of us do not transfer money into a Thai Bank at all yet fully meet the Retirement Visa TB65K per month income requirement. How? Easily we use our home country based Visa/Mastercard credit cards to buy practically everything here in Thailand from Groceries and Petrol to Health Insurance and Telephone bills and then settle up in your home country with a fair proportion of your equivalent TB65K per month income paid into your home country bank account by say your pension fund people. This is all of course effectively just the same as bringing foreign income into the country by transferring it here to your bank account and then spending it using cash to pay everything. Also for unavoidable cash needs here, and I must say I personally use little, I draw that out from an ATM with my UK credit card too (use Aeon Bank and no rip off TB150 ATM fee either) and that is then settled monthly in the UK with my other Thai day to day credit card purchases. Overall this is all far cheaper than paying exorbitant utter rip off UK bank transfer charges and again some small (though quite reasonable) commission charges this end too. Cannot wait for the new mobile phone near contact technology to make life even easier buying stuff here.

This year was the first year I did not need a combo based 800K Baht visa renewal as now I have turned 65 years old and have my state pension too, so my UK pension income now easily exceeds the 65K Baht a month requirement. And guess what, they did not expect or want to see any Thai bank account book. In fact if I preferred I do not even need a Thai Bank account now unless say the pound devalues more than my annual inflation based pension rises and I dropped back below the required monthly income figure again. I do keep a Thai bank account though for convenience as I can use their Internet Banking service and pay bills here that way rather than a total waste of life long queueing at places like ToT offices, where they do not even take credit cards either !!! Unfortunately the local Electric supply company seem to be living 50 years in the past and not heard of Internet Banking bill payment or the acceptance of credit cards either and they are a PITA because of it, but at least can pay at say Seven Eleven where any queues are usually very small but even so still a bloody waste of time and should be unnecessary these days. I have better things to do with my time by enjoying life not spending ages queueing !!!

So as you see it would neither be practical or needed or even necessary to insist 65K per month is transferred to a Thai bank account and Thai immigration are not so stupid as to not realise this and thus it is not and will not be a requirement I am sure. However proper proof of income is a reasonable requirement so if you have to show your Pension or other income proof to the Thai immigration in the future (doubtful for most of us) then you should not have to then incur the cost of an Embassy proof of income letter any more hmm ?? So would be less cost each year and I am therefore all for it. No this wont happen for the majority of us as normal Embassy letters like those issued by most Embassies here already sensibly and intelligently insist on seeing documentary evidence of income and confirming that sighting in their income proof letters. It will just be the Americans. Canadians, Australians etc who do not insist on sighting valid documentary proof of income that will be affected, and come on now lets be real and say this is quite understandable and reasonable by the Thai immigration and anyway no problem for those of you who have been telling the truth about your income and thus properly meet the Thai visa requirements by simply and easily showing them documentary evidence of income. I have to show up to date documentary proof of my UK pensions income to the British Embassy or Consulate and based on their sighting of these valid original documents only then will they issue a letter confirming my true relevant UK income which is then fully certified by The British Government. So not just totally naively certified by the visa applicant just swearing that is his income, which is not difficult to expect that to be accepted by Thai immigration as that is laughable surely and would not happen in your home countries for visa requests by foreigners.

So to sum up the whole current thread topic issue should be no problem to any of us here unless they are retired here on false pretences. Sure you can live here on much less than TB 65K per month but that does not allow for any emergencies or unexpected expenses here and anyway that IS the figure not unreasonably laid down by the Thai Immigration folk and not up for debate. If you do not have the TB 800K cash in the bank, or TB 65K per month income or a combo, or maybe instead a spouse visa with a 400K requirement, then no way should you be permanently living here unless you are working here with a legal work permit of course. All seems fair, sensible and reasonable to me and no justification for anyone to complain about it, unless I am truly missing something. I know I do not have enough capital or income to live say in Australia or the USA but I accept that fact and do not complain that it is unfair as it is clearly not unfair at all. We all have to be able to live within the confines of our income and/or savings and of course complying with a country's clearly published legal visa requirements.

I'm on your side. I hope it doesn't happen as it would very burdensome for many or most, and those are people who legitimately do HAVE that INCOME. However, on your point that it can "never" happen, you are totally wrong. Immigration can do whatever they want no matter what the intended or unintended consequences.