Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[up-country_sinclair]

I don't consider myself to be rich, and depositing 800,000 baht doesn't seem like too much for a foreign country ask so that I can retire there. If you are over 50 and want to live in Thailand full time and not work, just put 800,000 in the bank and leave it there.

There have been several posts on this thread about not trusting Thai banks. Are there any documented cases of foreigners having money taken from their bank accounts (by the banks, not less than trustworthy partners)?

[samran]

The OP mentions nothing about the import of pensions.

Yes it does

Posted 2011-06-06 20:41:29

Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions

Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

BANGKOK: The Immigration Bureau has tightened the requirements for retirement extensions.

...

but no more explanation about this affirmation rumour.

My bad.

In my defense, I rarely if ever pay attention to a headline these days. Having written a few articles for magazines from time to time, I've noticed that the headline bears little or no resemblance to the actual content of the article.

Knock yourselves out guys - whip yourselves up into a lather.

[FOODLOVER]

Barry-First of all, if you have insurance with AIS, that's why the hospital would not except your insurance card because AIS is one two call. I believe you mean AIA, and again this is an AIG company that the U.S. Federal government had to bail out. If you want a good insurance company try Bupa, or LMG.

Barry

Yes AIS, Sorry and will try these 2 instead, thank you!

Edited June 8, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[tartempion]

Why is it diffcult to meet the requirements of obtaining a retirement extension of stay a few hours at most to put together your documents. I donot think any country in the world allows anyone to march in and set up house keeping without the ability to support themselves.

Try any of the European countries.

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

You don't need to be over 50 neither to qualify.

It might take up to 18 months before they decide you have to go (if they can find you, no 90 days reporting)

Several countries chartered a plane together recently to send a bunch of Africans home, seems it has been 10 years before they did something that dare-full.

Didn't some Thai authorities pushed back some Rohinga motor-less boat into the sea last year?

Sure civilized countries like Europe can't do that.

[samran]

Why is it diffcult to meet the requirements of obtaining a retirement extension of stay a few hours at most to put together your documents. I donot think any country in the world allows anyone to march in and set up house keeping without the ability to support themselves.

Try any of the European countries.

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

You don't need to be over 50 neither to qualify.

It might take up to 18 months before they decide you have to go (if they can find you, no 90 days reporting)

Several countries chartered a plane together recently to send a bunch of Africans home, seems it has been 10 years before they did something that dare-full.

Didn't some Thai authorities pushed back some Rohinga motor-less boat into the sea last year?

Sure civilized countries like Europe can't do that.

So based on that logic then you shouldn't have to file paperwork with the Thai authorities and you should be allowed to stay as long as you want?

[tartempion]

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

I'm assuming that bank statements indicating receipt of pension are now required, certainly more meaningful than a letter from the embassy.

Maybe Thai Immigration will update their website to show the "new rule".

Hu??

Meaningless? My embassy requires proof of income (3 months pension income, but they don't understand some people over 50 might have other type of revenues, or tax statement which is an official document), and it not expensive: 400 baht + 40 for EMS mailing.

Thus now Immigration wants me to proof that my embassy statement, requiring proof to get, is not based on some joke.

Back to square one.

[Pattaya46]

Thus now Immigration wants me to proof that my embassy statement, requiring proof to get, is not based on some joke.

No.

Looks like only American and Australian guys are concerned

[tartempion]

Why is it diffcult to meet the requirements of obtaining a retirement extension of stay a few hours at most to put together your documents. I donot think any country in the world allows anyone to march in and set up house keeping without the ability to support themselves.

Try any of the European countries.

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

You don't need to be over 50 neither to qualify.

It might take up to 18 months before they decide you have to go (if they can find you, no 90 days reporting)

Several countries chartered a plane together recently to send a bunch of Africans home, seems it has been 10 years before they did something that dare-full.

Didn't some Thai authorities pushed back some Rohinga motor-less boat into the sea last year?

Sure civilized countries like Europe can't do that.

So based on that logic then you shouldn't have to file paperwork with the Thai authorities and you should be allowed to stay as long as you want?

Asking asylum does require a lot of paperwork though and be prepared for long lines and months of scary waiting for decisions.

Also note I can freely move, work, buy land and house, stay as long as I want within any of the 27 countries without a lot of paperwork: just show up at the selected place of residence and get registered.

Thailand gets a Zero from me in this regard so far.

[theoldgit]

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

A popular myth, don't forget that those who seek asylum can be detained in an Immigration Removal Centre whilst their applications are considered - or is that what you mean by free lodging?

Several countries chartered a plane together recently to send a bunch of Africans home, seems it has been 10 years before they did something that dare-full.

This has been happening for years, and not just to the African countries, Croatia, Iraq and Afghanistan are amongst the countries that charter flights are sent to, and then you have the escorted removals and those that are just stuck on a plane with a one way ticket.

The UKBA are not perfect in their removal record, but they are not only up against the failed asylum seekers who don't to go back, but also the do-gooders, MP's and some of the popular press.

Edited June 8, 2011 by theoldgit

[samran]

Why is it diffcult to meet the requirements of obtaining a retirement extension of stay a few hours at most to put together your documents. I donot think any country in the world allows anyone to march in and set up house keeping without the ability to support themselves.

Try any of the European countries.

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

You don't need to be over 50 neither to qualify.

It might take up to 18 months before they decide you have to go (if they can find you, no 90 days reporting)

Several countries chartered a plane together recently to send a bunch of Africans home, seems it has been 10 years before they did something that dare-full.

Didn't some Thai authorities pushed back some Rohinga motor-less boat into the sea last year?

Sure civilized countries like Europe can't do that.

So based on that logic then you shouldn't have to file paperwork with the Thai authorities and you should be allowed to stay as long as you want?

Asking asylum does require a lot of paperwork though and be prepared for long lines and months of scary waiting for decisions.

Also note I can freely move, work, buy land and house, stay as long as I want within any of the 27 countries without a lot of paperwork: just show up at the selected place of residence and get registered.

Thailand gets a Zero from me in this regard so far.

er, um, Thailand isn't a member of the EU last I looked. Are you saying you should be given similar rights that you get in the EU? That is a laugh.

[Beetlejuice]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

White man`s burden

[elliss]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

my understanding is ,

if you are over 50 , and retired / stopped working .

you need provide proof of your retirement pensions .

the belt is tightening , ouch .

[Jingthing]

my understanding is ,

if you are over 50 , and retired / stopped working .

you need provide proof of your retirement pensions .

the belt is tightening , ouch .

Nope. Neither pension NOR income of any kind is required if using the 800K in the Thai bank method. The "news" in the OP not related in any conceivable way to that continuing, existing option. I would also assume proven income (such as non-Thai rental streams, etc.) not related to illegal work in Thailand will also still be acceptable regardless.

[Jingthing]

The OP mentions nothing about the import of pensions.

Yes it does

Posted 2011-06-06 20:41:29

Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions

Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

BANGKOK: The Immigration Bureau has tightened the requirements for retirement extensions.

...

but no more explanation about this affirmation rumour.

My bad.

In my defense, I rarely if ever pay attention to a headline these days. Having written a few articles for magazines from time to time, I've noticed that the headline bears little or no resemblance to the actual content of the article.

Knock yourselves out guys - whip yourselves up into a lather.

I find your "defense" weak. The issue of importation was mentioned numerous times before directly to you and you just ignored it; you seemed bent on your seemingly morally judgmental point of view without actually even learning the facts about the content of the OP. I am also guessing you personally aren't an American with pension income who hasn't the foggiest idea now if he has to IMPORT any, two months, or ALL of his pension INTO Thailand, or not. I'm not either but I relate to them. If you think that isn't a big deal, well obviously it isn't to YOU.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[SurfRider]

.

"Neither pension NOR income of any kind is required if using the 800K in the Thai bank method"

True, but why would anyone want 800K wasting away in a Thai bank account, earning nothing-- when it could be yielding considerable investment income for you in a foreign country?

The simple-minded Thai concept of using "pension" income to justify your existence is grossly outdated and should be updated to be in-step with many other various income options that Expats have available to them.

.

[Jingthing]

.

"Neither pension NOR income of any kind is required if using the 800K in the Thai bank method"

True, but why would anyone want 800K wasting away in a Thai bank account, earning nothing-- when it could be yielding considerable investment income for you in a foreign country?

The simple-minded Thai concept of using "pension" income to justify your existence is grossly outdated and should be updated to be in-step with many other various income options that Expats have available to them.

.

It already is!!!!

Many expats use other kinds of income other than pension to qualify (pension/income OR combo method) and have for many years! While the OP is indeed badly written and very vague, I think it probably doesn't have anything at all to do with narrowing allowed income to pension only. It's about Americans, etc. with embassies who don't verify income statements being forced to prove their income other ways and/or actually being required to IMPORT their pensions/income for at least some months (which, totally unclear). I continue to think the real hot button potential news here is about the IMPORTATION, as that requirement would be historic and could indicate a trend. Yes, I am guessing when they said pension they were just being lazy and really meant pension and/or income. Could be wrong, expect years of threads and posts to work this all out. That part is dreadful.

[ianh68]

This thread has been read over 25,000 times and has received nearly 300 replies and contain little more than rumours, speculation, what-ifs with a sprinkling of flaming and of course no new facts or official information.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread has become a self perpetuating doomsday scenario?

a self perpetuating doomsday scenario?

Like it! I'll have to remember that one!

[Arkady]

.

"I don't know why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do - it's relatively simple. Surely they can come up with that amount"

One very good reason is because some retirees have their money working for them in investments in foreign countries.

In the USA, for example, the 800,000 Baht required by Thai Immigration is the equivalent about US$26,500 -- If you liquidate enough of your invested money to satisfy the ridiculous Thai requirement, you'll pay income taxes in your home country on that money. If the retiree is in the 20% tax bracket, you'll pay $5300 to your home government for the "privilege" of meeting the Thai income requirement. In addition, if that invested money is earning 5% annually in interest or dividend yield, you forfeit $1325 per year in income, due to being forced to liquidate your investment.

Now, do you understand "why retired people don't just transfer 800000 baht like I do"? -- How would you feel about being forced to pay US$5300 ( 160,000 Baht! ) to transfer your 800K to Thailand?

.

That is a ridiculous obfuscation of the issue. You are assuming that all retirees would liquidate B800k that is wholly taxable profit from investments and that no tax obligation would otherwise ever arise in their home country. The Thai government is not in a position to dictate how foreign countries set their tax policies or how foreign retirees organize their investment portfolios and manage their personal tax affairs. However, it is perfectly reasonable that they should require foreign retirees requesting annual visa extensions to produce evidence that they have either remitted a lump sum to Thailand, sufficient in their view to live on for the duration of the extension, or that they are regularly remitting monthly pension payments. They have legitimate concerns that foreign retirees may work illegally, may not contribute sufficient income to the Thai economy to be worth having, may resort to crime and/or may become a burden on Thai taxpayers by requiring emergency medical treatment or incarceration. A cursory glance through this thread seems to indicate that such concerns are indeed vindicated.

[Beetlejuice]

.

"Neither pension NOR income of any kind is required if using the 800K in the Thai bank method"

True, but why would anyone want 800K wasting away in a Thai bank account, earning nothing-- when it could be yielding considerable investment income for you in a foreign country?

The simple-minded Thai concept of using "pension" income to justify your existence is grossly outdated and should be updated to be in-step with many other various income options that Expats have available to them.

.

Because the reasons for letting foreigners live in Thailand is for the purposes of bringing money into the country.

Why should foreigners enjoy the benefits of living in Thailand at a much cheaper rate then they could in the home countries and at the same time have the bulk of their money stashed away in a foreign bank account? Where is the logic behind that? Some want to keep their cake and eat it.

Plus you are completely wrong regarding what you have stated that; why would anyone want 800K wasting away in a Thai bank account, earning nothing-- when it could be yielding considerable investment income for you in a foreign country?

Simply not correct. I am getting a good interest rate on my savings in Thailand, even more then I could possibly obtain from my American, UK and European accounts. This is because every now and then, some Thai banks have promotions and there are good deals to be had if you shop around and keep those eyes peeled for when the promotion deals appear. Providing you have enough money of course.

Or perhaps many of you are unable to take advantage of these high interest rate promotion bank accounts as most are for a fixed terms and on reading some of these posts, it appears that many here are living on shoestring budgets, hand to mouth every day.

That’s tough titties, no money, no honey, this is Thailand, as everyone very well knows. So for those that can’t hack it and keep whinging all the time, I’m afraid it`s back to the trailer park for you lot.

[tartempion]

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

A popular myth, don't forget that those who seek asylum can be detained in an Immigration Removal Centre whilst their applications are considered - or is that what you mean by free lodging?

Not at all, how misinformed you are!

This from Fedasil Belgium, but there are European directives.

I don't think there is much of asylum seeking facilities in Thailand.

Any foreigner arriving in Belgium may apply for asylum. But not everyone will be recognised as a refugee. The asylum seeker has to go through the asylum process first. As the asylum authorities examine the applicant’s case, the asylum seeker is entitled to material help at the reception centre assigned to him or her. The Dispatching Service of Fedasil assigns this centre.

The asylum seekers are not obliged to stay at the reception centre to which they were assigned but the majority prefer this solution. If an asylum seeker chooses not to stay at a reception structure then s/he will not receive any material help. The asylum seeker does retain the right to medical assistance.

Asylum seekers are housed in collective centres as well as in individual dwellings. The reception structures of Fedasil and its partners constitute a network of more than 18,000 beds.

[SurfRider]

.

"Many expats use other kinds of income other than pension to qualify ... forced to prove their income other ways and/or actually being required to IMPORT their pensions/income for at least some months (which, totally unclear)"

Ok, I'll grant you that-- and agreed that the OP is less than vague with this new scenario. But let's look at the practical issue -- I have always imported funds on a random basis, as needed via ATMs - which is the least expensive way to bring cash into Thailand.

If this new edict is true, you will need to justify 65K brought into Thailand monthly - even if you don't need that amount, or you choose to bring your cash in every 3 months, 6 months, yearly, etc.. The simple minded concept of proving income on a monthly basis is foolish and doesn't make any sense in this day and age.

Would you be looking forward to justifying your existence by trying to describe a complex flow of income into foreign accounts to a Immigration agent with a 6th grade education and an IQ of 70? . . .

.

Edited June 8, 2011 by SurfRider

[tartempion]

er, um, Thailand isn't a member of the EU last I looked. Are you saying you should be given similar rights that you get in the EU? That is a laugh.

Where have I stated Thailand is a member of the EU???

< comment removed >

The EU is far more advanced (and that's an understatement) than ASEAN in this respect.

Why do retirees only get a one year extension, why do they need to show year by year they have the most probably SAME income, why the 90 days reporting,etc etc

Edited June 8, 2011 by metisdead
Flame extinguished.

[SurfRider]

.

"Simply not correct. I am getting a good interest rate on my savings in Thailand, even more then I could possibly obtain from my American, UK and European accounts"

I wasn't referring to interest paid on a savings account - I was referring to invested funds -- But if what you're claiming is true, more power to you and you should consider selling your secret - I'm sure many Expats residing here would be more than just interested!

Any one who knows much about investing, would know that money is safer and more productive when invested outside of Thailand.

.

[Colabamumbai]

When is everyone going to finally get the hint that they are not welcome here?

We are all considered temporary here in Lotus Land. When I tell them I will live here and die here, they have nothing more to say to me. They all think that foreigners are going back to their" luxurious, expensive" lives in the West.

[tropo]

The OP mentions nothing about the import of pensions. It only talks about actually having proof of your income, rather than a sworn statement, which people can fraudulently exploit.

Yeah, sure thing ...

Headline of OP

Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

I can't believe he missed that. It would seem that most others on this thread have missed it too.

[tropo]

.

"Neither pension NOR income of any kind is required if using the 800K in the Thai bank method"

True, but why would anyone want 800K wasting away in a Thai bank account, earning nothing-- when it could be yielding considerable investment income for you in a foreign country?

The simple-minded Thai concept of using "pension" income to justify your existence is grossly outdated and should be updated to be in-step with many other various income options that Expats have available to them.

The way you're talking one would think that 800K is going to be here for a full year. I use over 70K every month, so it soon disappears. I use the 65K monthly method, but either way it doesn't make much difference at all - bringing it all over in one hit or doing it monthly.

[SurfRider]

.

"either way it doesn't make much difference at all - bringing it all over in one hit or doing it monthl"

It could make a BIG difference if liquidating assets to bring 800K to Siam, to rot away in a Thai bank, costs you US$5300 (160,000 Baht) in income tax in your home country-- not to mention over US$1300 in lost annual income due to the asset no longer producing revenue.

Not everyone's situation is the same as yours.

.

[tropo]

Not everyone's situation is the same as yours.

Fair enough, not everyone's situation is the same as yours.

[theoldgit]

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

Huh??

Meaningless? My embassy requires proof of income (3 months pension income, but they don't understand some people over 50 might have other type of revenues, or tax statement which is an official document), and it not expensive: 400 baht + 40 for EMS mailing.

Thus now Immigration wants me to proof that my embassy statement, requiring proof to get, is not based on some joke.

But that's exactly my point, like you I have to provide my embassy proof of my income and then pay them 2,340 THB for the privilege of them printing off a templated letter advising Thai Immigration that they have seen evidence of my income. If, and it's still only an if, I now have to provide proof of the same income to an Immigration Officer, then surely it makes the embassy letter meaningless.

I for one would rather keep my 2340 Baht and do away with the letter if I'm going have to show the same proof again.

[theoldgit]

You will get free lodging, food and 20k monthly pocket money to survive, simply ask for asylum.

A popular myth, don't forget that those who seek asylum can be detained in an Immigration Removal Centre whilst their applications are considered - or is that what you mean by free lodging?

Not at all, how misinformed you are!

With respect you don't know how expert I am, or as you prefer "misinformed", my knowledge is gained on professional experience and not Google.

Belgium isn't really a very good example, I have never met an asylum seeker who will risk life and limb to travel to Belgium, the UK is the number one destination for "asylum seekers/economic migrants" despite the fact that under convention people who live in fear are supposed to seek refuge in the first safe country they set foot in.

All the EU countries have Immigration Detention Centres, except the UK which has Removal Centres, David Blunkett changed the title to give a clear message, the EU builds more Detention Centres as the EU expands, they are even building Detention Centres in Turkey.

I will accept that asylum seekers that are not detained can get very basic accomodation in the community, but what is an urban myth is that they land in a country, shout asylum and are given a house and 20k pocket money a month (20k what by the way?)