Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[rawhod]

OK...REPORT....REPORT...REPORT

UK Citizen...Chiang Mai Immigration...Friday 10 June 2011

Within last 30 days of Non-Immigrant "O" visa applying for 1 year Retirement extension of stay.

Submitted :-

1. Passport

2. Photo

3. Completed TM7

4. Original Proof of Pension income letter from British Consulate Chiang Mai

5. Photocopy Departure card

7. Photocopy Passport Data Page

8. Photocopy Non-Immigrant "O" visa

9. 1,900 BHT

Received:-

1 Year Extension of stay based on meeting the conditions for retirement in Thailand

Not Required ...

Additional proof of pension income.

Bank statements.

Thai Bank Book

Pension imported into Thailand.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have resisted the temptation to add to this inane thread until now. Despite "Freedom of Speech", I thing the moderators should nip threads spreading unsubstantiated rumours in the bud. I am sure that "The Authorities" monitor forum(s). By airing your fears,loopholes in the system etc. in public, you play into "The Authorities" hands.

Surely it is better to "keep schtum" .

[techno]

OK...REPORT....REPORT...REPORT

UK Citizen...Chiang Mai Immigration...Friday 10 June 2011

Within last 30 days of Non-Immigrant "O" visa applying for 1 year Retirement extension of stay.

Submitted :-

1. Passport

2. Photo

3. Completed TM7

4. Original Proof of Pension income letter from British Consulate Chiang Mai

5. Photocopy Departure card

7. Photocopy Passport Data Page

8. Photocopy Non-Immigrant "O" visa

9. 1,900 BHT

Received:-

1 Year Extension of stay based on meeting the conditions for retirement in Thailand

Not Required ...

Additional proof of pension income.

Bank statements.

Thai Bank Book

Pension imported into Thailand.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have resisted the temptation to add to this inane thread until now. Despite "Freedom of Speech", I thing the moderators should nip threads spreading unsubstantiated rumours in the bud. I am sure that "The Authorities" monitor forum(s). By airing your fears,loopholes in the system etc. in public, you play into "The Authorities" hands.

Surely it is better to "keep schtum" .

Many thanks for the update in CNX. There are certainly unsubstantiated rumours which are unfounded and cause concern amongst us long term residents

[Suradit]

Why is it that a simple informational post becomes a forum for panic and suppositions going way beyond what the post is trying to tell us.

Because the vocal minority are trying to bend the rules and throw a hissy fit every time their "clever" ploys to subvert the rules gets stomped upon. If you read ThaiVisa you sometimes get the impression that most of the farang participants on this board hate every minute they spend in Thailand, but then that recent poll indicated something like 85% were quite happy here. It's the empty barrels who keep making all the noise even though they represent a marginal segment of the farang population and apparently they spend most of their time trying to circumvent the rules so they can continue to stay while claiming they'd rather be somewhere else.

Seems like the Thai government is actually quite reasonable with regard to income requirements.

It is. The requirements are very easy to comply with and accomodating to those of us who have retired and wish to live here.

The people who huff and puff about "Thailand doesn't want us here" or " all farang will be deported" or other hysterical nonsense have a decidedly over-inflated view of how important they are to the Thai economy and how much they will be missed if they take their money elsewhere even though they apparently can't come up with proof they even have as little as Baht 65,000 a month to spash about.

I especially love the guy who will never transfer money to a Thai bank or the other one who has heard that money mysteriously disappears from Thai bank accounts. If someone is really that paranoid or fearful about life outside his carefully constructed bubble, why would he want to venture outside the bubble in the first place?

Many thanks for the update in CNX. There are certainly unsubstantiated rumours which are unfounded and cause concern amongst us long term residents

Possibly it serves someone's interest to stir up concern about applying for an extension from time to time ... like maybe someone who runs a visa service??

Edited June 12, 2011 by Suradit

[KimoMax]

This post is nothing but more Fear Mongering Rumors.

No facts, just so called "Reports" of this or that "proof" required.

If Immigration does make a change in policy or procedures, it will apply all nationalities and be posted as a police order or in Immigration's required documents.

The Thai Embassy and Consulates in the USA, have all required "Notarized" Proof of Income and/or Money in the Bank in the USA for many years.

So to imply or say that many Americans do not have the proper funds is Incorrect.

Funny how a Retiree supporting themself is required to have the highest income or bank amounts. 65,000 per month or 800,000 in bank.

Married or support of Thai family is only half that.

For Property owners, Students, English Teachers and all others no other proof of income or additional supporting documents are required.

Strange.

Edited for clarity.

Edited June 12, 2011 by KimoMax

[inquisitive]

Golly Redsquare, how did this forum ever do without your great newbie insights? You certainly have added to this discussion and I look forward to reading more of your wisdom. I do hope, though, that you can manage your sarcasm a bit because it ever so slightly obscures our appreciation of your great wisdom.

Oh, and in this particular case I hope that you notice that at least up until your unwarranted comment, there was not a single post that even suggested that anyone should be allowed to cheat at anything ... which kind of makes me wonder what caused all your apparant bitterness. I'd hate to even hazard a guess, though I am sure it comes through loud and clear to all the readers.

Anyway, we all start off knowing nothing and there is no reason for us to expect any more from you. Welcome aboard.

Breaking News . . . Thai Immigration cracking down on people trying to cheat the system.

What awful people they are. Let's hear from the apologists who feel that farang retirees should be allowed to claim whatever monthly pension they like with no checks at all by Immigration.

[rawhod]

Many thanks for the update in CNX. There are certainly unsubstantiated rumours which are unfounded and cause concern amongst us long term residents

Is that "us" or "U.S." ?

[Artisi]

The bottom line is that immigration just wants to know that we have sufficient income to support ourselves here and that Thailand doesn't end up having to care for farangs who are destitute.

And what ever made you think that Thailand will have the role of taking care of destitute farangs, other than guiding them to the airport for deportation.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Artisi

[jfchandler]

OK...REPORT....REPORT...REPORT

UK Citizen...Chiang Mai Immigration...Friday 10 June 2011

Thanks for the detailed report provided above, Rawhod...

I guess a couple questions remain, though.

One is, perhaps Chaeng Wattana in BKK, being closer to the central administration (and where the original report in this thread originated from), is beginning to enforce some new policy...either by itself, or ahead of the other offices....

A second is, you're a UK citizen whose consulate already has been verifying income statements, whereas some other consulates have not been. It's possible I suppose that Immigration might be enforcing the new policy just against selected countries' citizens where that same verification is not occurring.

I'm not saying either is the case... I'm just pointing out, a report by a UK citizen from Chiang Mai doesn't fully resolve the open questions in this particular subject....

Edited June 12, 2011 by jfchandler

[sailorEd]

Enough is Enough. These people have no common sense much less ability to think logically. I am going to return home and they can kiss the 1.5-2.0 Million a year I have put into this economy annually good-by.

[personchester]

<deleted> is going on here??? can't you guys just get a proper visa and earn some money or have enough money in your bank account??? Get some style here and don't complain about some laughable 65k or what ever it is. You have money and that's it, you don't have it, leave, good night.

Well, said Beach-----I do not consider 800,000bt to be an extreme amount for being accepted here as a retiree. If you cannot afford to have that amount permanently in your a/c then you should not consider comeing here. I consider it to be a small price to pay for exchangeing a stressful life in another country for a extremely happy time int the land of smiles. Sorry guys but nothing in this life is free,but life here can be wonderful if you obey the rules.I reort every 90 days.Get a warm welcome and a smile,and once a yr give them a up to date a/c figure over the 800,00 and with another smile i walk mout. EASY

The 800 K. balance does not need to be permanently in one's A/c, on the contrary one can debit from the A/c continuously for living expenses here, but one has to ensure that the 800.K. balance is "back" again 3 months prior to the annual visa renewal.

[Jingthing]

Jing, I too have seen some reports lately by members here indicating they had been told that next time round they will be asked to show documents/statements proving their monthly income, in addition to the normal consulate letter.

But I can't recall seeing any clear reports where Immigration was requiring someone to show that their monthly income funds for purposes of retirement extension had somehow been "imported" into Thailand or were on deposit here.... (apart from the entirely separate 800,000 baht Thai bank deposit route).

Agreed! I think there is overwhelming evidence already (for months now) that there is increased scrutiny (or warnings to be prepared for later) of Americans applying for retirement extensions using an income method in BANGKOK (and reports from other offices as well). Scrutiny meaning not accepting the embassy letter as proof; demanding more proof/looking at THAI bank books, etc. So reports out of BANGKOK have the most relevance now as that is where an eventual nationwide policy would tend to start.

About IMPORTATION. Fully agreed, no real evidence yet. Only the OP here headline (and possibly some of the text depending on how you read it) and a few vague reports in the old thread I supplied before where there are hints they MAY have been looking for evidence of IMPORT in the THAI bank books. The headline of the OP here was explicit that import is now on the table for the targeted nationalities. Will this turn out to be real? Your guess is as good as mine.

Again, reports and more reports, especially from Americans applying from today in BANGKOK.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

<deleted> is going on here??? can't you guys just get a proper visa and earn some money or have enough money in your bank account??? Get some style here and don't complain about some laughable 65k or what ever it is. You have money and that's it, you don't have it, leave, good night.

Well, said Beach-----I do not consider 800,000bt to be an extreme amount for being accepted here as a retiree. If you cannot afford to have that amount permanently in your a/c then you should not consider comeing here. I consider it to be a small price to pay for exchangeing a stressful life in another country for a extremely happy time int the land of smiles. Sorry guys but nothing in this life is free,but life here can be wonderful if you obey the rules.I reort every 90 days.Get a warm welcome and a smile,and once a yr give them a up to date a/c figure over the 800,00 and with another smile i walk mout. EASY

The 800 K. balance does not need to be permanently in one's A/c, on the contrary one can debit from the A/c continuously for living expenses here, but one has to ensure that the 800.K. balance is "back" again 3 months prior to the annual visa renewal.

Bank account method is totally off topic to this thread. But that's correct, you can spend down on the 800K if using the bank account method.

[Jingthing]

Golly Redsquare, how did this forum ever do without your great newbie insights? You certainly have added to this discussion and I look forward to reading more of your wisdom. I do hope, though, that you can manage your sarcasm a bit because it ever so slightly obscures our appreciation of your great wisdom.

Oh, and in this particular case I hope that you notice that at least up until your unwarranted comment, there was not a single post that even suggested that anyone should be allowed to cheat at anything ... which kind of makes me wonder what caused all your apparant bitterness. I'd hate to even hazard a guess, though I am sure it comes through loud and clear to all the readers.

Anyway, we all start off knowing nothing and there is no reason for us to expect any more from you. Welcome aboard.

Breaking News . . . Thai Immigration cracking down on people trying to cheat the system.

What awful people they are. Let's hear from the apologists who feel that farang retirees should be allowed to claim whatever monthly pension they like with no checks at all by Immigration.

Very few people here will be supportive of people who lie to their embassies to get income letters. That isn't the focus of this issue though. The focus is whether Americans and perhaps other targeted nationalities will now be required to IMPORT their pension funds in ADDITION to proving them. If so, that would represent a historic change in immigration policy, as up till now (if this is for real) there has NEVER been the requirement for those using the income/pension method (or combo) to IMPORT even ONE baht into Thailand.

[sirchai]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

It's totally crazy that a single guy' has to show 800,000 baht for a one year extension, while a married guy needs to show only 400,000 baht? \

They might think that the single guy still has to get married, to built a house, buy some cars and motorbikes. Unfortunately, some made up accidents will have to paid as well, like: " My brother had a bad accident and the hospital wants to have 1,000,000 baht. Mother's medicine 30,000 a month and so on...........:jap:

[sirchai]

Jing, I too have seen some reports lately by members here indicating they had been told that next time round they will be asked to show documents/statements proving their monthly income, in addition to the normal consulate letter.

But I can't recall seeing any clear reports where Immigration was requiring someone to show that their monthly income funds for purposes of retirement extension had somehow been "imported" into Thailand or were on deposit here.... (apart from the entirely separate 800,000 baht Thai bank deposit route).

Agreed! I think there is overwhelming evidence already (for months now) that there is increased scrutiny (or warnings to be prepared for later) of Americans applying for retirement extensions using an income method in BANGKOK (and reports from other offices as well). Scrutiny meaning not accepting the embassy letter as proof; demanding more proof/looking at THAI bank books, etc. So reports out of BANGKOK have the most relevance now as that is where an eventual nationwide policy would tend to start.

About IMPORTATION. Fully agreed, no real evidence yet. Only the OP here headline (and possibly some of the text depending on how you read it) and a few vague reports in the old thread I supplied before where there are hints they MAY have been looking for evidence of IMPORT in the THAI bank books. The headline of the OP here was explicit that import is now on the table for the targeted nationalities. Will this turn out to be real? Your guess is as good as mine.

Again, reports and more reports, especially from Americans applying from today in BANGKOK.

Americans are, or were the only ones who can/could get away with a simple statement made by their embassy regarding their monthly income. Guess it's just fair that all have to go through the same process. :jap:

[Jingthing]

The part about requiring more proof from Americans using an income method in at least Bangkok is most likely not in any sense a RUMOR. Unless you think the credible reports here over the last months are lies. I don't.

The part about IMPORTATION requirements (again for targeted nationalities at this point)? Not sure yet what to call that as we don't know yet. If true, it is big news. If false, it may be just be some kind of communication error. I wouldn't call it a RUMOR though.

I ask again that the guy from Sunbelt who was mentioned in the OP article to step up and FOLLOW UP on the info in the OP, especially more SPECIFIC details please on the IMPORTATION requirements.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Jingthing

[sbk]

Personal attack deleted, this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

[Jingthing]

Americans are, or were the only ones who can/could get away with a simple statement made by their embassy regarding their monthly income. Guess it's just fair that all have to go through the same process. :jap:

Here's where you may be very wrong. If Americans are the only nationality that MAY be required to IMPORT their claimed income/pensions INTO Thailand, it would not be the same process at all. It would be a double standard penalizing Americans with more stringent requirements than other nationalities. Again, please separate these two things -- proving income / requiring IMPORTATION.

[theoldgit]

The part about requirement more proof from Americans using an income method in at least Bangkok is most likely not in any sense a RUMOR. Unless you think the credible reports here over the last months are lies. I don't.

The part about IMPORTATION requirements (again for targeted nationalities at this point)? Not sure yet what to call that as we don't know yet. If true, it is big news. If false, it may be just be some kind of communication error. I wouldn't call it a RUMOR though.

I ask again that the guy from Sunbelt who was mentioned in the OP article to step up and FOLLOW UP on the info in the OP, especially more SPECIFIC details please on the IMPORTATION requirements.

There are a number of posts on this, very long, thread suggesting that Americans are complaining that they can no longer make a false declaration about their income to their consular official, I have not read one single post from an American, on this or any other thread, making such a complaint, or in fact sugesting that's what they do. Indeed it would be a very stupid thing for an American, or anybody else, to do.

If this rumour is correct, that targeted nationalities actually have to show they have imported the required sum, rather than prove that they actually have an income somewhere in the world, then it's a strange direction for the Thai Immigration Authorities to take.

I agree with you Jingthing, and I aplogise for slightly going of the thrust of your argument, that we need specific examples of how and where this "new rule" is being applied, and to whom.

[Jingthing]

Thanks, and for those smug people who think the Americans deserve this double standard of enforcement (importation part), think again. Now consider what this possible trend (Requiring Importation, again this is the potentially big news) might mean if they decided to apply it to ALL nationalities, including yours. No, I'm not saying they will or won't or even if this initial info will turn out to be real, but the concept of the SLIPPERY SLOPE isn't exactly novel.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Jingthing

[personchester]

OK...REPORT....REPORT...REPORT

UK Citizen...Chiang Mai Immigration...Friday 10 June 2011

Within last 30 days of Non-Immigrant "O" visa applying for 1 year Retirement extension of stay.

Submitted :-

1. Passport

2. Photo

3. Completed TM7

4. Original Proof of Pension income letter from British Consulate Chiang Mai

5. Photocopy Departure card

7. Photocopy Passport Data Page

8. Photocopy Non-Immigrant "O" visa

9. 1,900 BHT

Received:-

1 Year Extension of stay based on meeting the conditions for retirement in Thailand

Not Required ...

Additional proof of pension income.

Bank statements.

Thai Bank Book

Pension imported into Thailand.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have resisted the temptation to add to this inane thread until now. Despite "Freedom of Speech", I thing the moderators should nip threads spreading unsubstantiated rumours in the bud. I am sure that "The Authorities" monitor forum(s). By airing your fears,loopholes in the system etc. in public, you play into "The Authorities" hands.

Surely it is better to "keep schtum" .

The letter from the Embassy is only a requirement for applicants without a 800.K Thai Bank A/c, although the other needed doc's are the same ... those that do have the 800.K. A/c, do need a letter from their Thai bank (not the Embassy) confirming the A/c balance as printed in the updated A/c booklet (cost 100.BT)

Being "stumm"... (German word, German spelling) is recommendable for people living in autocratic countries ruled by dictatorial despot's, this is obviously not the case in Thailand, if it was, we the farangs would not be in retirement here.

Edited June 12, 2011 by personchester

[Toshy]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

It doesn't matter how often you wire the money here, what matters is how much you earn each month on your pension.

Can this valid point be clarified for monthly Pension Income.eg.

Does this mean to supply Copies of Pension P60 s to Immigration. From own Country. ?

And if 2/3 months Bank Statements are required,Does this mean from own country Bank OR into a THAI Bank account.?

[SurfRider]

.

"I ask again that the guy from Sunbelt who was mentioned in the OP article to step up and FOLLOW UP on the info in the OP, especially more SPECIFIC details please on the IMPORTATION requirements. "

I contacted Sunbelt and asked them to have Khun Sunn respond to this thread, which he did (Post #405). Still not very definitive, but maybe a few eMails from concerned Expats might pry loose more pertinent information.

Here's his text:

.

Posted 2011-06-10 15:11:58

"Sunbelt Asia explained the experiences they have had recently at Immigration in obtaining a retirement extension to Thaivisa in the original report.

Our experience over the past month has been that the Immigration officer requires proof of income in addition to the certified letter from the embassy or consulate.

As with all things involving government officials in this country, your experiences may be different and can vary from office to office, officer to officer and even day to day depending on the officer."

.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Lite Beer
E Mail removed.

[jfchandler]

I should point out, once again, there's nothing in the followup communication from the Sunbelt guy relating to having to show monthly income funds are being brought into Thailand...

He's strictly talking about Immigration, in Sunbelt's recent experience, requiring separate documentation via pension or bank statements and such of monthly income that is represented in the applicant's consulate letter.

[rawhod]

OK...REPORT....REPORT...REPORT

UK Citizen...Chiang Mai Immigration...Friday 10 June 2011

Thanks for the detailed report provided above, Rawhod...

I guess a couple questions remain, though.

One is, perhaps Chaeng Wattana in BKK, being closer to the central administration (and where the original report in this thread originated from), is beginning to enforce some new policy...either by itself, or ahead of the other offices....

A second is, you're a UK citizen whose consulate already has been verifying income statements, whereas some other consulates have not been. It's possible I suppose that Immigration might be enforcing the new policy just against selected countries' citizens where that same verification is not occurring.

I'm not saying either is the case... I'm just pointing out, a report by a UK citizen from Chiang Mai doesn't fully resolve the open questions in this particular subject....

To answer both questions...

Where are the reports from :-

1) People "closer to the central administration" (sic)... and

2) Citizens from the selected countries where the same verification is not occurring

[rawhod]

OK...REPORT....REPORT...REPORT

UK Citizen...Chiang Mai Immigration...Friday 10 June 2011

Within last 30 days of Non-Immigrant "O" visa applying for 1 year Retirement extension of stay.

Submitted :-

1. Passport

2. Photo

3. Completed TM7

4. Original Proof of Pension income letter from British Consulate Chiang Mai

5. Photocopy Departure card

7. Photocopy Passport Data Page

8. Photocopy Non-Immigrant "O" visa

9. 1,900 BHT

Received:-

1 Year Extension of stay based on meeting the conditions for retirement in Thailand

Not Required ...

Additional proof of pension income.

Bank statements.

Thai Bank Book

Pension imported into Thailand.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have resisted the temptation to add to this inane thread until now. Despite "Freedom of Speech", I thing the moderators should nip threads spreading unsubstantiated rumours in the bud. I am sure that "The Authorities" monitor forum(s). By airing your fears,loopholes in the system etc. in public, you play into "The Authorities" hands.

Surely it is better to "keep schtum" .

The letter from the Embassy is only a requirement for applicants without a 800.K Thai Bank A/c, although the other needed doc's are the same ... those that do have the 800.K. A/c, do need a letter from their Thai bank (not the Embassy) confirming the A/c balance as printed in the updated A/c booklet (cost 100.BT)

Being "stumm"... (German word, German spelling) is recommendable for people living in autocratic countries ruled by dictatorial despot's, this is obviously not the case in Thailand, if it was, we the farangs would not be in retirement here.

Firstly...

There was a suggestion that people applying for retirement extension based on income were having to produce bank statements to show the 65,000 BHT per month was being transferred into a Thai bank account. I was pointing out that there was no such requirement.

Secondly...

"Keep Schtum"

Meaning

Say nothing - especially in circumstances where saying the wrong thing may get you into trouble.

Origin

This probably derives from the German word stumm meaning silent. The phrase keep schtum (variously spelled 'keep stumm', 'keep 'keep shtoom', 'keep schtum' etc.) is British and fairly recent. It has the sound of a Yiddish phrase but it is more likely that it originated in the UK criminal community. The earliest citation of it is in Frank Norman's, book Bang to rights: an account of prison life, 1958:

"I think it's much better to keep shtoom."

"You can always shtoomup if any screws are earholeing."

Edited June 12, 2011 by rawhod

[sbk]

Maybe I am blind but in re-reading the OP nowhere do I see it state that the income must come from outside the country as members seem to be saying it says.

I see this:

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

So, please do point out to me the original statement in the OP that states they are saying income must be shown to be coming in from outside the country? it just says pension income.

[Eff1n2ret]

The notion of "importing" funds doesn't allow for credit card payments. In the last 6 months I have paid, in Thailand, hotel bills, internal airfares and medical bills with a UK-based credit card which is paid out of my UK bank account. It would be rather unjust not to include such expenditure in a figure for "imported" funds.

[harrry]

Maybe I am blind but in re-reading the OP nowhere do I see it state that the income must come from outside the country as members seem to be saying it says.

I see this:

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

So, please do point out to me the original statement in the OP that states they are saying income must be shown to be coming in from outside the country? it just says pension income.

start quote

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Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

end quote

THis comes directly from the topic of this forum as the topic was posted by George

Edited June 12, 2011 by harrry

[lopburi3]

Maybe I am blind but in re-reading the OP nowhere do I see it state that the income must come from outside the country as members seem to be saying it says.

I see this:

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

So, please do point out to me the original statement in the OP that states they are saying income must be shown to be coming in from outside the country? it just says pension income.

It says it as part of the title

Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

It appears that showing such evidence is accepted as one way to prove pension income but not a requirement in itself.