Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[SurfRider]

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"It's too bad there isn't some way to better correct or remove such blatantly erroneous posts as the OP in this thread"

Not only that! - It's getting worse -- the following was published a few days ago in what many believe to be Pattaya's ONLY credible newspaper.

http://pattaya-times...visa-extensions

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[jfchandler]

i asked same question a week ago,come to the conclusion it must be some sort of publicity stunt,to build up web traffic on tv.

And/or business for the consulting business involved.

[jfchandler]

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"It's too bad there isn't some way to better correct or remove such blatantly erroneous posts as the OP in this thread"

Not only that! - It's getting worse -- the following was published a few days ago in what many believe to be Pattaya's ONLY credible newspaper.

http://pattaya-times...visa-extensions

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Thanks SR... That looks to be pretty much a verbatim re-do of the original post here on TV...

That's the problem with bad information that's left "officially" un-corrected. It has a tendency to spread and get further repeated, just magnifying the original misinformation.

[jfchandler]

TO: jfchandler. Thanks for pointing out my misstep, but I am glad i did that, because of the Consulate being my "buffer zone" I am glad you pointed me

in the right direction. That is very doable. The problem (if it is one at all) is that under the program DOJ will go to the extent of denying my existence. Thankfully

AFAIK, no one has to confirm or deny your existence, as you put it..

If we're talking about applying for a retirement visa at a Thai consulate in the U.S., in terms of income, you just have to show documents that prove you have sufficient income... you don't need personal references.

However, one difference about retirement extensions of stay issued inside Thailand vs. retirement visas issued outside Thailand... At least the last time I checked, one of the differences about retirement visas issued in the U.S. is that the Thai consulates there typically have wanted the applicant to provide both a medical certificate and a police records clearance...meaning, showing that you're not some kind of convicted criminal who wouldn't fit well into polite Thai society. Dunno how that latter issue would fit with your situation.

If you do qualify for a retirement extension of stay, there is another way to go... And that is, starting in the U.S., apply for a regular tourist visa from the Thai consulate there, which doesn't require any particular income or police clearances. And then, once inside Thailand on the tourist visa, you can go to Immigration in Bangkok and have the tourist visa converted to a non immigrant visa and then to an extension of stay based on retirement (usually all in the same day, or sometimes, requiring a second visit) -- assuming you're 50 years or older and meet the income requirements. No police or medical checks required in the latter method.

[tropo]

TO: jfchandler. Thanks for pointing out my misstep, but I am glad i did that, because of the Consulate being my "buffer zone" I am glad you pointed me

in the right direction. That is very doable. The problem (if it is one at all) is that under the program DOJ will go to the extent of denying my existence. Thankfully

AFAIK, no one has to confirm or deny your existence, as you put it..

If we're talking about applying for a retirement visa at a Thai consulate in the U.S., in terms of income, you just have to show documents that prove you have sufficient income... you don't need personal references.

However, one difference about retirement extensions of stay issued inside Thailand vs. retirement visas issued outside Thailand... At least the last time I checked, one of the differences about retirement visas issued in the U.S. is that the Thai consulates there typically have wanted the applicant to provide both a medical certificate and a police records clearance...meaning, showing that you're not some kind of convicted criminal who wouldn't fit well into polite Thai society. Dunno how that latter issue would fit with your situation.

If you do qualify for a retirement extension of stay, there is another way to go... And that is, starting in the U.S., apply for a regular tourist visa from the Thai consulate there, which doesn't require any particular income or police clearances. And then, once inside Thailand on the tourist visa, you can go to Immigration in Bangkok and have the tourist visa converted to a non immigrant visa and then to an extension of stay based on retirement (usually all in the same day, or sometimes, requiring a second visit) -- assuming you're 50 years or older and meet the income requirements. No police or medical checks required in the latter method.

There's a much easier way.

Just come into Thailand without a visa (visa-exempt 30-day entry) and do the whole process to retirement extension in one go a couple of days after you arrive There really is no need to waste any time visiting a Thai Embassy in the US and messing around to fulfil their requirements. The non-O will cost 2000 baht (approx US $67).

[merijn]

Last year I re-newed my retirement visa, I had a letter from my UK pension company which was then verified by the British consul, I also had a letter from my bank here stating how much balance I had in my account, the retirement re-newal form plus photo copy of Passport and visa page, sorry I have not read all of the many posts, so is this what is required at my next re-newal?

I am in Phuket.

You should be fine.

As long your pension is certified by the Embassy or Consul and you have more then 65.000 Baht a month total ( Pension, Bank account or combined ) you should be fine.

When your pension is more then 65.000 Baht a month then you don't need the bank statement / account officially but it helps in your application.

Also don't forget that they like to have a copy of your ATM card ( front side ) if you have one off-course.

[tropo]

Last year I re-newed my retirement visa, I had a letter from my UK pension company which was then verified by the British consul, I also had a letter from my bank here stating how much balance I had in my account, the retirement re-newal form plus photo copy of Passport and visa page, sorry I have not read all of the many posts, so is this what is required at my next re-newal?

I am in Phuket.

You should be fine.

As long your pension is certified by the Embassy or Consul and you have more then 65.000 Baht a month total ( Pension, Bank account or combined ) you should be fine.

When your pension is more then 65.000 Baht a month then you don't need the bank statement / account officially but it helps in your application.

Also don't forget that they like to have a copy of your ATM card ( front side ) if you have one off-course.

I've never been asked to show a copy of an ATM card. I do remember hearing they were asking at some offices at one time...

A Thai bank account IS necessary for a (first time) retirement extension at Chonburi based on income.

[jfchandler]

Just come into Thailand without a visa (visa-exempt 30-day entry) and do the whole process to retirement extension in one go a couple of days after you arrive There really is no need to waste any time visiting a Thai Embassy in the US and messing around to fulfil their requirements. The non-O will cost 2000 baht (approx US $67).

Tropo, I was under the impression that, to obtain a retirement based extension of stay from Immigration in BKK, that the applicant needed to already have a Non-Immigrant or Tourist Visa in hand.... I didn't think a person could start from a visa exempt entry into Thailand and convert that into an extension in country, even if the person is eligible for the extension. Did something change about that somewhere along the way?

[Jingthing]

Just come into Thailand without a visa (visa-exempt 30-day entry) and do the whole process to retirement extension in one go a couple of days after you arrive There really is no need to waste any time visiting a Thai Embassy in the US and messing around to fulfil their requirements. The non-O will cost 2000 baht (approx US $67).

Tropo, I was under the impression that, to obtain a retirement based extension of stay from Immigration in BKK, that the applicant needed to already have a Non-Immigrant or Tourist Visa in hand.... I didn't think a person could start from a visa exempt entry into Thailand and convert that into an extension in country, even if the person is eligible for the extension. Did something change about that somewhere along the way?

You can enter on 30 day stamp and do a change of visa status (to O) as part of the "two step process" where the second step is the retirement extension. Not available in all offices, but definitely in Bangkok and Pattaya. For those whose local office doesn't do the first step, they can do that part in Bangkok. Edited June 23, 2011 by Jingthing

[JimGant]

JFC, that option has been around nearly as long as the option to convert from a Tourist visa. The form for doing so (TM87) is entitled "Application for Visa," while the form for converting from a Tourist visa (TM86) is "Application for Change of Visa." Both require the same information.

There's a much easier way.

Just come into Thailand without a visa (visa-exempt 30-day entry) and do the whole process to retirement extension in one go a couple of days after you arrive There really is no need to waste any time visiting a Thai Embassy in the US and messing around to fulfil their requirements. The non-O will cost 2000 baht (approx US $67).

You would think so -- until that pesky airline asks you to show an exit ticket, since you don't have a visa. And, of course, since you plan to apply for an extension, exiting is not on your horizon.

[electau]

Go to your local immigration office where you are going to obtain your extension to your visa.

Get their requirements in writing. Get your documentation ready. Contact your embassy for their requirements

Go to your embassy and meet their current requirements. Return to your immigration office

Problem solved.

Edited June 24, 2011 by electau

[tropo]

JFC, that option has been around nearly as long as the option to convert from a Tourist visa. The form for doing so (TM87) is entitled "Application for Visa," while the form for converting from a Tourist visa (TM86) is "Application for Change of Visa." Both require the same information.

There's a much easier way.

Just come into Thailand without a visa (visa-exempt 30-day entry) and do the whole process to retirement extension in one go a couple of days after you arrive There really is no need to waste any time visiting a Thai Embassy in the US and messing around to fulfil their requirements. The non-O will cost 2000 baht (approx US $67).

You would think so -- until that pesky airline asks you to show an exit ticket, since you don't have a visa. And, of course, since you plan to apply for an extension, exiting is not on your horizon.

I didn't consider that problem as I've never had a problem coming into Thailand without an exit ticket. I suppose you'd have to find a less pesky airline or worst case scenario by a cheap exit ticket to a neighboring country, or buy a refundable ticket to somewhere.

Edited June 24, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

Go to your local immigration office where you are going to obtain your extension to your visa.

Get their requirements in writing. Get your documentation ready. Contact your embassy for their requirements

Go to your embassy and meet their current requirements. Return to your immigration office

Problem solved.

Things just don't work that simply at Thai Immigration offices.... also... good luck getting "requirements in writing".

[Somrak]

It's too bad there isn't some way to better correct or remove such blatantly erroneous posts as the OP in this thread...

I think the same - there are no changes!

[electau]

Go to your local immigration office where you are going to obtain your extension to your visa.

Get their requirements in writing. Get your documentation ready. Contact your embassy for their requirements

Go to your embassy and meet their current requirements. Return to your immigration office

Problem solved.

Things just don't work that simply at Thai Immigration offices.... also... good luck getting "requirements in writing".

Ask them first then write the requirements down yourself. They used to have them on their website, but it has not been upgraded since 2004.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php

[jfchandler]

I didn't consider that problem as I've never had a problem coming into Thailand without an exit ticket. I suppose you'd have to find a less pesky airline or worst case scenario by a cheap exit ticket to a neighboring country, or buy a refundable ticket to somewhere.

I've had it go both ways...on flights from the U.S. to Thailand...

Two trips back, on the return leg involving an L.A. to BKK flight, American Airlines got all fussy and said they couldn't find the Thailand visa in my passport... They didn't want to let me check-in without it... I had a retirement extension and re-entry permit.

I pointed those out to them, and they finally relented... But it struck me as being odd, because that check-in was for the RETURN trip back to Thailand... not the outbound one... And, I never needed or got to the point of talking to them about 30 day visa exempt entries....

Other times, other airlines have never asked or cared.

[jfchandler]

JFC, that option has been around nearly as long as the option to convert from a Tourist visa. The form for doing so (TM87) is entitled "Application for Visa," while the form for converting from a Tourist visa (TM86) is "Application for Change of Visa." Both require the same information.

Just come into Thailand without a visa (visa-exempt 30-day entry) and do the whole process to retirement extension in one go a couple of days after you arrive There really is no need to waste any time visiting a Thai Embassy in the US and messing around to fulfil their requirements. The non-O will cost 2000 baht (approx US $67).

You would think so -- until that pesky airline asks you to show an exit ticket, since you don't have a visa. And, of course, since you plan to apply for an extension, exiting is not on your horizon.

This is an interesting discussion... When I think re the visa related advice offered over time by the veterans/experts here, my impression has been the conversion discussion has typically been recommended to go from a tourist visa to an extension... vs going from a visa exempt entry to an extension...

Is the potential airlines issue the reason for that... or something else driving that approach?

Lots of things may be possible to do... But the question is, under the circumstances, what's the best way to get to the end point.

[lopburi3]

The recommendation of this poster is obtain a non immigrant O visa for entry - to avoid any flight problems or paying for a tourist visa you do not need.

If you can not, or spur of the moment, the option to change/obtain is available for 2,000 baht but previously there was also a 21 days in advance requirement so a border entry of 15 days would not allow and even 30 day entry was cutting it close having to transfer funds if using that method. Recently they have been allowing less time but to me it makes sense to obtain the visa from a Consulate first for most people. Remember there is a 2k cost here (the same as Consulate) and financial proof cost (and may be required twice if office will not do both change and extension on same visit).

[jfchandler]

Lop.. if someone is currently living in the U.S. and is eligible for retirement here and wants to come here... how do you see the merits of:

a: starting with a tourist visa, which is easily obtained without all the O visa hoops in the U.S., and then doing the conversion to retirement extension once in Thailand

vs

b: starting with the O type retirement visa issued by a Thai Consulate in the U.S., jumping thru the hoops there, and then not having to do anything once here.

One main difference to me with the tourist visa approach is not having to hassle with the medical and police clearances in the U.S.

Another is that the retirement extension here, once issued, doesn't have 90 day border runs... Whereas the O visa based on retirement issued in the U.S. does, if I'm not mistaken.

But perhaps there are other considerations that balance or tip the scales.

[SurfRider]

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"not having to hassle with the medical and police clearances in the U.S."

I think they did away with that quite a while ago. Even back in 2004, I only needed financial information t get an "O" Visa in the U.S.

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[jfchandler]

SR, here's the O-A visa requirements listed on the Los Angeles Consulate's web site:

Required documents (*** One original set and 3 sets of copies. Requested documentation 5–7 must be notarized.***)

1. Four visa application forms |Download|

2. Four passport-type photos (Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo).

3. Four copies of the applicant's passport (the picture page) - include the actual passport when submitting the application. Passport must be valid for at least 18 more months.

4. Four copies of Personal Data Form. |Download|

*5. Four copies of:

- applicant's bank statement (U.S.) showing a balance in the amount of not less than 800,000 Baht (current Thai exchange rate is available from the Bank of Thailand web site)

- or an income certificate with a monthly salary of not less than 65,000 Baht

- or a combination of a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht a year.

(When submitting the bank statement, a letter from the bank verifying the account and balance is to be presented)

*6. Four copies of police verification stating the applicant has no criminal record issued by the authority concerned of his/her nationality or residence. The verification must not be more than three months old.

*7. Four copies of the completed medical certificate form |Download| issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) with the name and address of the doctor. The certificate must be not be older than 3 months.

8. Effective Immediately - The visa fee for Non-Immigrant O-A Long-Stay (Retirement) visa is $175 - payable by cashiers check or money order only made payable to "Royal Thai Consulate General - Los Angeles"

If the applicant's spouse will be accompanying him or her, a copy of the applicant's valid marriage certificate must be presented as supporting documentation. If the applicant's spouse is not qualified for the retirement visa (e.g. not age 50+), the spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary Residents.

http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

[jfchandler]

Curiously, the Thai Embassy in Wash DC has the same language re the required medical and police certifs, but seems to require one less set of copies... again...for the O-A. And they also don't appear to have the same notarizing requirement as Los Angeles... Geez!!!

Required Documents:- (Required 3 sets: 1 original and 2 copies)

- Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must not expire within 6 months and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).

- Visa application form completely filled out (download)

- Addition Application form (download)

- A medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (download)

- Three passport-size photographs (2"x2") (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.

- A copy of bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht

- In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required

- A letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification shall be valid for not more than three months)

- In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the Category 'O-A' (Long Stay) visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category 'O' visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence

http://www.thaiembdc...on-Imglong.aspx

Edited June 24, 2011 by jfchandler

[SurfRider]

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"SR, here's the O-A visa requirements listed on the Los Angeles Consulate's web site:"

I can only tell you my experience and there was no such requirement in 2004. I had three friends get one-year "OA" Visas for retirement purposes at the same office about 2 or 3 years ago - same thing - only financial data. Their "OA" Visas were a much better deal than an "O" because it carried unlimited re-entrys for the first year and was automatically renewed for a 2nd year if you entered Thailand during the last 90 days of the first year validity period.

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Edited June 24, 2011 by SurfRider

[bangkokburning]

Immigration sampling spending....how would this impossibility be played out? At least it might be an opportunity to hire more Immigration flunkies.

I can see it now....You eat too much Thai food, not drink enough, not have a girlfriend with big family and sick buffalo...Visa denied.

[moe666]

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"SR, here's the O-A visa requirements listed on the Los Angeles Consulate's web site:"

I can only tell you my experience and there was no such requirement in 2004. I had three friends get one-year "OA" Visas for retirement purposes at the same office about 2 or 3 years ago - same thing - only financial data. Their "OA" Visas were a much better deal than an "O" because it carried unlimited re-entrys for the first year and was automatically renewed for a 2nd year if you entered Thailand during the last 90 days of the first year validity period.

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A friend has recieved 2 O-A visa in the states, one last year and another 4 years ago and in both cases he had to have the medical statement and the police report. He recieved both from the Embassy in Washington DC. Turn around service less than 5 days.

Having planned my move to Thailand over the course of many years and having read the Embassy website in Washington DC and the Consulate in Los Angles the requirements for medical and police reports has been there since at least 2003.

[theoldgit]

Two trips back, on the return leg involving an L.A. to BKK flight, American Airlines got all fussy and said they couldn't find the Thailand visa in my passport... They didn't want to let me check-in without it... I had a retirement extension and re-entry permit.

I pointed those out to them, and they finally relented... But it struck me as being odd, because that check-in was for the RETURN trip back to Thailand... not the outbound one... And, I never needed or got to the point of talking to them about 30 day visa exempt entries....

Other times, other airlines have never asked or cared.

But surely that's not unreasonable, if you were returning to Thailand the carriers would want to be sure you were legally able to enter Thailand, once you had pointed out your retirement extension and re-entry permit they were content, or as you say "they finally relented". Leaving Thailand wouldn't be an issue, you were, presumably, flying to the US as an American passport holder. The fact you were returning on a return ticket wasn't really relevant. I have noticed on a number of cases check-in staff flipping through my passport pages, I have always smiled, taken my passport back and shown them the relevant stamps, they wouldn't know my status otherwise.

Likewise, talking to them about the 30 day visa exempt entries probably wouldn't have carried much weight, unless you had a ticket out of Thailand within 30 days.

You have to remember that any carrier who brings a passenger in Thailand who isn't properly documented is liable for a fine, so you cannot really blame them for being cautious.

Anyway, back to topic.

[jfchandler]

Well, I suppose one of two things is possible...

Either they've changed the rules since the time of your encounters, or their web site requirements are out of date... Either or both is a reasonable likelihood...

I'll note, on the Thai Embassy web site, they still show Suan Plu as the BKK Immigration office... so they're a bit behind the times...

When I look at the Embassy web site re all the various visas....

The B business visa and the regular O visa -- "To stay with the family, perform duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process" -- say nothing about needing police or medical certificates...

It's only in their sections on the O-A retirement visas where those two requirements show up...both on the L.A. Consulate web site and the Wash DC Embassy one.

[lopburi3]

Posted 48 minutes ago

Lop.. if someone is currently living in the U.S. and is eligible for retirement here and wants to come here... how do you see the merits of:

The non immigrant O-A requires police/medical and provides one year stay on entry (and if multi entry a new one year stay on any entry during validity of one year). At the end you either have to return to home country and repeat or extend at immigration in the normal manner below.

An extension of stay inside Thailand provides the same one year stay but does not provide new one year stays and requires a re-entry permit to keep the stay alive if travelling.

For most people the extension of stay inside Thailand works fine. This requires a non immigrant visa entry but this can be obtained inside Thailand if required.;

If I were coming from the US I would obtain a single entry non immigrant O visa from an Honorary Consulate (not the retirement O-A) on basis of being age 50 and thinking of retirement. You get a 90 day entry and can then extend for retirement after 60 days.

There is no reason to obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa as it only provides 90 days per stay and you have to leave to get a new 90 day stay.

[jfchandler]

Likewise, talking to them about the 30 day visa exempt entries probably wouldn't have carried much weight, unless you had a ticket out of Thailand within 30 days.

You have to remember that any carrier who brings a passenger in Thailand who isn't properly documented is liable for a fine, so you cannot really blame them for being cautious.

Thanks Git... I'm aware of those requirements and circumstances...

I can only say, my impression of the airline staff I was dealing with at the time was...they wouldn't have had a clue about 30 day visa exempt entries or much of anything else...

But they again, I can't really expect them to be experts in the arcane and peculiar entry requirements of Thailand....

[jfchandler]

Thanks for the insight and elaboration, Lop... :jap:

This stuff gives me a headache every time...

Posted 48 minutes ago

Lop.. if someone is currently living in the U.S. and is eligible for retirement here and wants to come here... how do you see the merits of:

The non immigrant O-A requires police/medical and provides one year stay on entry (and if multi entry a new one year stay on any entry during validity of one year). At the end you either have to return to home country and repeat or extend at immigration in the normal manner below.

An extension of stay inside Thailand provides the same one year stay but does not provide new one year stays and requires a re-entry permit to keep the stay alive if travelling.

For most people the extension of stay inside Thailand works fine. This requires a non immigrant visa entry but this can be obtained inside Thailand if required.;

If I were coming from the US I would obtain a single entry non immigrant O visa from an Honorary Consulate (not the retirement O-A) on basis of being age 50 and thinking of retirement. You get a 90 day entry and can then extend for retirement after 60 days.

There is no reason to obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa as it only provides 90 days per stay and you have to leave to get a new 90 day stay.