Persistant Scratching

[binnsy]

My 3 year old Rottie has taken to scratching herself so much so she has bald patches

What is the cause of this?

She has had jabs for ticks/Fleas as we live in the rice fields.

[Cuban]

Difficult to get the ideal answer with just a little information to go on, so don't shoot me down for speculating outside of your situation or asking:

• I would like to know how long this has been going on.
  
• Where on the body is she scratching?
  
• How often is she shampooed? Our outdoor dogs get washed about three times a year, but brushed almost every day as part of grooming/bonding. (They are Rottie-cross.)
  
• Does it occur at night? Suggesting mosquitoes the cause? (We burn a dried coconut shell.)
  

Is she scratching at the injection sites? I have seen an injection cause skin problems where the body has reacted to the injection. In our case this cleared up by itself after a month, but we kept the area clean and discouraged the dog from licking the area.

Is there any evidence of reddening of the skin there that might point to an irritation that could be caused by:

• Chemicals - floor cleaner if she sleeps on a tiled floor. Stop using that liquid.
  
• Fungal infection (Ringworm) Canesten Cream ® from the chemist is fine for dogs.
  
• Dogs can suffer skin cancer like humans, so looking for abnormal moles etc just like the human self-checking web sites suggest.
  

To break the itch/scratch cycle you might consider a child dose of an human antihistamine tablet. (This is one situation where human drugs can be used on dogs.) Give the pill just before sleeping as it is likely to make her drowsy.

>...Rottie has taken to scratching herself so much so she has bald patches

IME Rotties are not a highly strung breed that are prone to psychological fixations like some other breeds (Poodles?) but some dogs can develop habits as in Obsessive-Compulsive-Disorder, so the scratch is the reward itself for scratching.

> She has had jabs for ticks/Fleas as we live in the rice fields.

We use Frontline, place spots of the liquid on the skin as per instructions.

Oily fish (Raw mackerel if you are feeding BARF) or a can of pilchards twice a week help skin and fur growing well. After three months of our dogs (when pups) eating mackerel they looked like I had had them French Polished.

As a final off the wall thought, take a closer look at the foot she is scratching with to ensure that the foot itself is not the point of irritation. Although I would expect that she would be licking directly if that were the case.

Some other ideas.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Cuban

[binnsy]

Difficult to get the ideal answer with just a little information to go on, so don't shoot me down for speculating outside of your situation or asking:

• I would like to know how long this has been going on.
• Where on the body is she scratching?
• How often is she shampooed? Our outdoor dogs get washed about three times a year, but brushed almost every day as part of grooming/bonding. (They are Rottie-cross.)
• Does it occur at night? Suggesting mosquitoes the cause? (We burn a dried coconut shell.)

Is she scratching at the injection sites? I have seen an injection cause skin problems where the body has reacted to the injection. In our case this cleared up by itself after a month, but we kept the area clean and discouraged the dog from licking the area.

Is there any evidence of reddening of the skin there that might point to an irritation that could be caused by:

• Chemicals - floor cleaner if she sleeps on a tiled floor. Stop using that liquid.
• Fungal infection (Ringworm) Canesten Cream ® from the chemist is fine for dogs.
• Dogs can suffer skin cancer like humans, so looking for abnormal moles etc just like the human self-checking web sites suggest.

To break the itch/scratch cycle you might consider a child dose of an human antihistamine tablet. (This is one situation where human drugs can be used on dogs.) Give the pill just before sleeping as it is likely to make her drowsy.

>...Rottie has taken to scratching herself so much so she has bald patches

IME Rotties are not a highly strung breed that are prone to psychological fixations like some other breeds (Poodles?) but some dogs can develop habits as in Obsessive-Compulsive-Disorder, so the scratch is the reward itself for scratching.

> She has had jabs for ticks/Fleas as we live in the rice fields.

We use Frontline, place spots of the liquid on the skin as per instructions.

Oily fish (Raw mackerel if you are feeding BARF) or a can of pilchards twice a week help skin and fur growing well. After three months of our dogs (when pups) eating mackerel they looked like I had had them French Polished.

As a final off the wall thought, take a closer look at the foot she is scratching with to ensure that the foot itself is not the point of irritation. Although I would expect that she would be licking directly if that were the case.

Some other ideas.

Hey Cuban many thanks for the reply

She had an operation as she got pregnant and caught an infection about 1 year ago she seems to be mainly scratching her under belly.Have tried that frontline but she runs and rolls about in the dirt after i have applied it.I shower her about ever 2 weeks but again after she is showered she is out rolling about on the grass or in the dirt.

I was told that raw egg now and then is supposed to be good for a dogs coat?

I think its time for another visit to her vet

Thanks again

[Cuban]

>..she seems to be mainly scratching her under belly.

Nipples look normal? No leakage or blocked pores? As that area has less fur anyway, is she getting sunburn (unlikely) or getting a contact dermatitis from laying splayed out on the ground as dogs do in the hot weather.

> Have tried that frontline but she runs and rolls about in the dirt after I have applied it.

After a wash. Lots of rinsing. Allow a few days to pass then spot the Frontline on the shoulders, hunches etc. We do dry walks for a few days to allow the oil to spread and take effect. But keep up daily brushing. Then they can go swimming when we do the walk out by the river. The Frontline copes and re apply after a few months or when there are more than a few ticks appear. IMHO the BARF diet seems to keep the fleas at bay compared to neighbours dogs, also we have chickens, cattle and a few pigs around too.

>I shower her about ever 2 weeks but again after she is showered she is out rolling about on the grass or in the dirt.

This is far too often. Ours are a short leap from the rice fields and do roll in the nice smelling (for dogs) buffalo crap and muds, this is part of the dog wanting to "own" the smell. I would suggest frequent washing is taking oils out of the skin. Smelling like a bottle of shampoo probably encourages her to tone down the shampoo smell by rolling in the muds etc. When ours are muddy we will scrape off the worst when wet, allow them to dry then brush them clean with a soft brush. The only time they will be washed is if the mud forms lumps in between the toes or around the base of the tail. In which case we'll just use warm water to wash that part then brush when dry.

Have you tried diluting the shampoo or using a baby shampoo (again diluted)? To be clean you do not need to see lots of bubbles. When I wash the dogs (3) I brush them first, this gets rid of most of the dirt and dust anyway, then get them very wet and rub the fur, then apply 50% dilute tick&flea shampoo (we use a hand-pump spray gun) massage in paying attention to paws, nipples and bum. Then plenty of rinsing. Dry and use a clean brush.

> I was told that raw egg now and then is supposed to be good for a dogs coat?

Mine like raw eggs too.

> I think its time for another visit to her vet

Do they do skin sample analysis under a microscope or do they guess? *

The standard Thai vet response to skin issues is sell "Furmeg 3" pills at 10 Baht each, you are better off by feeding tinned pilchards.

* I could suggest good places in Pattaya or Khon Kaen.

[binnsy]

>..she seems to be mainly scratching her under belly.

Nipples look normal? No leakage or blocked pores? As that area has less fur anyway, is she getting sunburn (unlikely) or getting a contact dermatitis from laying splayed out on the ground as dogs do in the hot weather.

> Have tried that frontline but she runs and rolls about in the dirt after I have applied it.

After a wash. Lots of rinsing. Allow a few days to pass then spot the Frontline on the shoulders, hunches etc. We do dry walks for a few days to allow the oil to spread and take effect. But keep up daily brushing. Then they can go swimming when we do the walk out by the river. The Frontline copes and re apply after a few months or when there are more than a few ticks appear. IMHO the BARF diet seems to keep the fleas at bay compared to neighbours dogs, also we have chickens, cattle and a few pigs around too.

>I shower her about ever 2 weeks but again after she is showered she is out rolling about on the grass or in the dirt.

This is far too often. Ours are a short leap from the rice fields and do roll in the nice smelling (for dogs) buffalo crap and muds, this is part of the dog wanting to "own" the smell. I would suggest frequent washing is taking oils out of the skin. Smelling like a bottle of shampoo probably encourages her to tone down the shampoo smell by rolling in the muds etc. When ours are muddy we will scrape off the worst when wet, allow them to dry then brush them clean with a soft brush. The only time they will be washed is if the mud forms lumps in between the toes or around the base of the tail. In which case we'll just use warm water to wash that part then brush when dry.

Have you tried diluting the shampoo or using a baby shampoo (again diluted)? To be clean you do not need to see lots of bubbles. When I wash the dogs (3) I brush them first, this gets rid of most of the dirt and dust anyway, then get them very wet and rub the fur, then apply 50% dilute tick&flea shampoo (we use a hand-pump spray gun) massage in paying attention to paws, nipples and bum. Then plenty of rinsing. Dry and use a clean brush.

> I was told that raw egg now and then is supposed to be good for a dogs coat?

Mine like raw eggs too.

> I think its time for another visit to her vet

Do they do skin sample analysis under a microscope or do they guess? *

The standard Thai vet response to skin issues is sell "Furmeg 3" pills at 10 Baht each, you are better off by feeding tinned pilchards.

* I could suggest good places in Pattaya or Khon Kaen.

Thanks again for the advice

I live in Buriram so Khon Kaen is not that far away will take her to see the vet she has seen since she was a puppy and she if she improves if not i will have to make a trip.

Regards

Roger

[Julieflowers]

Could be mites. She could have picked up anywhere. Can make the skin very itchy. Take to the vets to get checked out. It stops you guessing.

My dog had that in the UK and was causing her terrible problems.

[wolf5370]

Mites, ticks, mange, over-heating, Eczema - My dog went through a stage where he was scratching a lot and deveoped some bald patches, turned out to be mild Eczema - vet gave me (sold me) a shampoo for him that cleared it up. It was not obvious (i.e. no flakey skin was evident - and he was short haired).

[meatboy]

ours is an outside dog and last night i noticed those tiny black like fleas,the ones that bite shit out of us inside the house or outside,they were landing on him and going straight under his coat,then he starts to bite and scratch,he has a double coat so his skin doesnt get red.any dog with short hair i would think they can be pretty irrataiting.

[sbk]

our dog had a very thick coat (Thai dog but an unusual looking one) and would get hot spots, giving her a short shave in the hot season got rid of that problem, but if its on her belly it doesn't sound like it could be that.

If she is only scratching in one spot and thats the area where her surgery was last year it could be the scarring is giving her some irritation?

[LeCharivari]

So many options, most of which Cuban has covered very well.

First thing to do is go to the vet for a skin test for mange or any other identifiable skin problem, then at least you should have an idea of what it may (or may not) be. Without that you are clutching at straws (diet, allergies, ticks, mange, ringworm, eczema, etc, etc).

My dogs get shampooed once a week, from the Bankaew to the Shih-tzu (not recommended for all breeds, I know, but it all depends on what you wash them with and some people don't have the time), but if you have to use a special shampoo you should realise that you will probably need to shampoo your dog twice a week for at least a month or two!

For any dogs with skin problems in addition to using a "normal" dog shampoo (preferably with 1% permethrin to control ticks/mites) I'd recommend using a shampoo containing 2% ketoconazole - available at most pharmacies/chemists as Nizoral or Ketazon (Ketazon is half the price of Nizoral, and you can always use either yourself instead of Head and Shoulders!). Shower the dog with fresh water, shampoo liberally with Ketazon/Nizoral working the shampoo well into the coat and skin, leave for 10 minutes, rinse off thoroughly with fresh water, wash again with your normal dog shampoo, then rinse off thoroughly again straightaway. Make sure you have rinsed off all traces of the shampoo. You'll need to do this twice a week until the skin problem has gone and hair has started to grow back in a healthy pattern, then once a week until the hair and skin are back to normal. Never use human shampoo on dogs, apart from a medicated shampoo like Ketazon - the formulations are totally different.

As an alternative to Ketazon/Nizoral your vet may recommend Malaseb used in the same way; I have only ever seen this available at vets' as it is only for dogs and cats and normally it is only recommended after you have tried Ketazon/Nizoral without success. Malaseb is stronger, a different formulation, and you need to be more careful with it as it is poisonous; it is also a lot more expensive as it is imported from Australia and not made locally - a 250ml bottle @ 600 - 700 baht will only last a fortnight with a Rottie.

Depending on what is available locally at your vets you may also want to try Earthbath with Tea Tree Oil which I can recommend, which is specially formulated for animals with itchy skin. Tea Tree Oil is excellent for itchy skin, but be very careful about using anything that is intended for people - basically avoid it at all costs unless your vet recommends it.

Your vet may also give you a course of tablets such as Kezole (Ketoconazole). If so, make sure that she also takes Samarin 70 (70 mg Silymarin, morning and evening) to minimise any liver problems which can be a side effect of Ketoconazole tablets. Some vets here are aware of this, some aren't (Samarin should be available at the bigger pharmacies)

I am sure the Ketazon/Nizoral shampoo will be available at a local pharmacy. Start that now, twice a week, before you go to the vet as she will almost certainly need that as a basic treatment anyway and the sooner that you start the better BUT do not shampoo your dog for at least 2 or 3 days before going to the vet or you may make it more difficult for them to do the skin test.

Edited August 11, 2011 by LeCharivari

[bangkaew]

our BK mix had the same problem, small red flies on his skin, but now he gets the tick and flea shot once a month and shampoo twice a week and he is fine. you are right about those tiny black flies, their bite is worse than any yeung!

[meatboy]

regarding those little black mites,we have a miniature dog who comes to our house every night,a while back i noticed above his eye-lids were raw and them little bleeders were all around he was rubbing above his eyes useing his dew-claw thus making them worse.i started putting a small amount of soffell mossy repellant on the top of his head where he couldnt lick it within 2weeks it cleared up.

[kimamey]

regarding those little black mites,we have a miniature dog who comes to our house every night,a while back i noticed above his eye-lids were raw and them little bleeders were all around he was rubbing above his eyes useing his dew-claw thus making them worse.i started putting a small amount of soffell mossy repellant on the top of his head where he couldnt lick it within 2weeks it cleared up.

nice to see someone caring. Well done.