New Work Permit Requirements From The Labor Department

[jfchandler]

The part about prior employer info also made me wonder...

If someone was applying for a NEW, first-time permit with some company, I can imagine the MoL asking for some reference from the prior employer.

But if someone is applying for a renewal with their current employer, it would seem kind of senseless to be asking for anything from the employer prior to the current one.

I'm guessing they mean a reference letter from the current employer in the case of renewals...

But maybe someone from Sunbelt will chime in to set everyone straight, as they're so good at doing...

Edited June 22, 2011 by jfchandler

[Soutpeel]

The part about prior employer info also made me wonder...

If someone was applying for a NEW, first-time permit with some company, I can imagine the MoL asking for some reference from the prior employer.

But if someone is applying for a renewal with their current employer, it would seem kind of senseless to be asking for anything from the employer prior to the current one.

I'm guessing they mean a reference letter from the current employer in the case of renewals...

But maybe someone from Sunbelt will chime in to set everyone straight, as they're so good at doing...

There is no mention of a renewed WP requiring a letter from previous employers, only to new WP's

[jfchandler]

Here's the applicable language from Sunbelt's post:

New applicants for work permits will now be required to provide proof of their Education Certificate (BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD) and a reference letter from the previous employer confirming employment.

That seems to be saying they'd want a reference letter from a person's prior employer when they apply for a new permit with a new employer. Don't know what that is supposed to mean about the person's current/intended employer.

That does seem a bit odd... A reference letter from the company involved in the current permit application makes sense. A reference letter from some past employer not part of the current application, at least to me, makes no sense.

It's the same kind of thing as the education certificate deal... presumably they mean, if the applicant has such a certificate or their job requires one. But the Sunbelt language hardly is clear on that point.

[BangrakBob]

just become a Thai citizen

[arthurwait]

I remember reading somewhere that the new Syphilis test that's going to be introduced is really a veiled test for HIV. I can't remember where I read it, maybe it was on here somewhere.

You can get syphillis tests done and results returned within an hour or whatever it is at places which don't have HIV testing facilities. So that can't be true.

[Soutpeel]

Here's the applicable language from Sunbelt's post:

New applicants for work permits will now be required to provide proof of their Education Certificate (BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD) and a reference letter from the previous employer confirming employment.

That seems to be saying they'd want a reference letter from a person's prior employer when they apply for a new permit with a new employer. Don't know what that is supposed to mean about the person's current/intended employer.

That does seem a bit odd... A reference letter from the company involved in the current permit application makes sense. A reference letter from some past employer not part of the current application, at least to me, makes no sense.

It's the same kind of thing as the education certificate deal... presumably they mean, if the applicant has such a certificate or their job requires one. But the Sunbelt language hardly is clear on that point.

I agree with you that Sunbelts wording is not clear, but one assumes the information has been passed over in Thai and this is their translation/spin on what they are being told.

But what that sentence says to me is that a new applicant needs prove their highest education, the items in the brackets should have had an "e.g". in front of them and the letter of reference from a previous employer makes perfect sense, it seems to me that they are requiring the person to prove they are qualfied for a specic job and well as providing evidence you have actually have experience in the position applied for.

Think this may relate to one of the application forms which requires you to give previous experience, but guess a lot of people just write in a load of BS and now they want proof from your last employer that you were doing exactly what you say you were doing, whether employed previously by a Thai employer or an overseas employer

This would not apply to renewal of an existing WP with the same employer as it serves no purpose, but would become a factor say for "English teachers" coming to Thailand with no employment history in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter even if they did have the required "education certificate"

My guess is the DOL is catching up with the typical HR policies as we know a lot of the time what is written in a CV is a load of BS and some employers want written references or at least contact details for previous employers to give them an avenue to verify what is written in the application forms

[Geekfreaklover]

Are you sure that this isn't just rubbish... they always say this and they always say it round election time I'm sure...

I reckon a change of parties is coming.

Who always say what? Immigration haven't changed any rules that don't involve the kojak shop.

And yes, an election does often bring about a change of political parties.

[Ijustwannateach]

I remember reading somewhere that the new Syphilis test that's going to be introduced is really a veiled test for HIV. I can't remember where I read it, maybe it was on here somewhere.

Not really. Drug-resistant syphillis is on the rise. If you go to the Red Cross it's one of the more recent additions to their battery of critical STD checks....

[arthurwait]

so what will they do with the tens of thousands of burmese, lao, and khmers working for a pittance in thailand ?

or do the new regulations only apply to farangs ?

The same rules do not apply to people from surrounding countries.

[LadyHeather]

I remember reading somewhere that the new Syphilis test that's going to be introduced is really a veiled test for HIV. I can't remember where I read it, maybe it was on here somewhere.

Could maybe make more sense.

While testing is Always Good [TM], why test coming employees for a disease that is very rare among people who'd apply for working permits, only transmits by very close contact and is easily curable, in primary stages with a single shot?

Keeping the DNA for a future register, maybe?

I have no idea what you mean by "new" syphilis test, I had to take one for my new application for a work permit in February of 2010. It was a requirement for all new applicants then, now it appears it will be a requirement for renewals as well. Annoying, true, but I didn't have syphilis the first time around and presumably won't this time.

Edited June 22, 2011 by LadyHeather

[Arkady]

I wonder why they want to know the blood type. Do they plan to suck the foreign workers dry? Lol.

[classix]

So, now who will feed my thai wife and daughter because of I don't have a degree and if not allow to have work permit anymore?

Here is the point.married,children and treated as a tourist.when women get equil rights.Hope our children are nomore trapped in this national thinking.Marrried foreigners should be able to apply for thai citizenship so they can take care there families.

[khaowong1]

I would imagine "New applicants for work permits will now be required to provide proof of their Education Certificate (BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD) and a reference letter from the previous employer confirming employment." is going to be a big problem for bar and restaurant owners who don't have a university education.

Most of the bar and restaurant owners I know have a BS. Just not from a recognized university. Most of theirs are from the school of hard knocks.

[dharmabm]

I remember reading somewhere that the new Syphilis test that's going to be introduced is really a veiled test for HIV. I can't remember where I read it, maybe it was on here somewhere.

Could maybe make more sense.

While testing is Always Good [TM], why test coming employees for a disease that is very rare among people who'd apply for working permits, only transmits by very close contact and is easily curable, in primary stages with a single shot?

Keeping the DNA for a future register, maybe?

Kepping the DNA for ...yeah right like they are orgainized enough for something like that. 1984 it ain't.

ayuh, they'll keep the dna, with 15 photocopies and please sign each one, and we'll put them on the roof in a big plastic garbage bag with all the other records, and if we need to verify the record, please come in again, with 15 signed photocopies of the original test and please pay another 30,000 baht for another test and can you please sign these photocopies which we will file with the other documents, .... ad infinitum

[Yeppe]

There is an easy way out of this rule - you just have to submit 100 baht to particular officer. Mai Pen Rai country is so lovely.

[Arkady]

So, now who will feed my thai wife and daughter because of I don't have a degree and if not allow to have work permit anymore?

Here is the point.married,children and treated as a tourist.when women get equil rights.Hope our children are nomore trapped in this national thinking.Marrried foreigners should be able to apply for thai citizenship so they can take care there families.

Foreign women married to Thai citizens have always been able to apply for Thai citizenship without having permanent residence first. Since 2008 foreign men married to Thai citizens have had the same right but they do need to have a job paying at least 40,000 baht a month and show three calendar years of tax receipts. The thinking is that foreign men need to be able to demonstrate the ability to support themselves and their families to qualify for citizenship, rather that the converse logic that the government has to give them citizenship in order to help them support themselves. In the case of foreign women married to Thai men, their husbands have to demonstrate that they have a profession and income instead which is admittedly still sexist but, at least, things were made a lot less gender discriminatory in the 2008 amendments and many foreign men married to Thais have already applied for citizenship without having permanent residence first.

I don't think they have specified that a degree is required for a work permit, although the specific request for educational credentials for renewals as well as new work permits may be heading in that direction. The form asks for qualifications and experience commensurate with the job and I would guess that significant experience will be accepted in most cases without a degree with the exceptions of jobs like teaching that require a degree and a teaching certificate for the measly pay offered in Thai schools. Unfortunately they don't care whether those foreigners who fail to make the cut have Thai families or not and obviously think they should go home.

As I am about to renew I had a glance at form WP5 and I think the requirements there to explain why it is necessary to have a foreigner for the job are new but may have been in the old form for a new work permit, although I can't remember seeing it. The 2008 Working of Aliens Act introduced in Section 7 the concept of needing to take into account the career opportunities of Thai people which was absent from the previous 1978 Act that just said foreigners can get a work permit to do any job that is not specifically prohibited. Perhaps they will expand that concept further and introduce a requirement common in many other countries to advertise for Thai nationals to do the job before issuing a work permit (and of course on each subsequent renewal).

Perhaps the millions of Burmese labourers who now do most of the heavy lifting in the Thai economy will soon also need to produce degree certificates while Thais sit around in their villages living on social security and the proceeds of selling their low quality rice to the government for twice the global price of high quality rice. In 2015 they have to allow ASEAN nationals to work freely as doctors, nurses, accountants, auditors and surveyors. They will probably get a lot of Filipino accountants and nurses and perhaps some Burmese coming to Thailand to work for companies that appreciate a better knowledge of English but these will be ones that fail to get better paid jobs in Singapore.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Arkady

[ToffeEFCpower]

You know-I am a Board Certified American Orthopedic Surgeon. A member of the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons. A former Associate Professor of my specialty at Texas A&M College of Medicine. I came here not just to retire but to work as a volunteer-no salary-with Thai surgeons. I wrote the Royal College Of Thai Orthopedic Surgeons twice, asking the proper way to apply. They did not write me back. I wrote the biggest hospital in Rayong, where I live, asking if there was any interest in my helping Thai doctors. That, too, went unanswered. Then I learn I must acquire a "Work Visa" just to work as a volunteer-for NO pay.

\

I did not come here to live just to drink, party, and screw the lovely ladies. But to be a contributing part of Thai life. I'll gladly try to learn the language, and respect the culture. To my mind, if you live in a country, you try to give some. But I have had nothing but trouble and resistance since I came just 3 months ago. I am strongly considering leaving and going to Mexico-where I speak the language. And at least when a Mexican f**ks you, he gives you the courtesy of a reach around!

[Boo]

off topic post looking for medical advice deleted. please post in the health forum

[Time Traveller]

I did not come here to live just to drink, party, and screw the lovely ladies.

Well, ok.

But I have had nothing but trouble and resistance since I came just 3 months ago. I am strongly considering leaving and going to Mexico-where I speak the language. And at least when a Mexican f**ks you, he gives you the courtesy of a reach around!

A whole 3 months? You expect that everything to bend to your demands when you've been here for 3 months? Unless you're registered to practice in Thailand already how could you honestly think that any hospital would be interested? Even qualified Thai people need time to gain trust of employers or business partners when starting out in new roles. First start by building up contacts of Thai medical pracitioners. Also your attitude about Thailand and Mexico begs the question why do you even bother if that how you think you'll be treated? In any case I don't understand how this relates to the Work Permit rules?

[softgeorge]

Is it now an absolute requirement of a WP to have a degree ??

If not why is 'proof' required ??

I think this is only for those who want to teach

[softgeorge]

There is an easy way out of this rule - you just have to submit 100 baht to particular officer. Mai Pen Rai country is so lovely.

or maybe you could pop into one of the local universities. I believe you can buy any qualification you want for the right price

[rich54321]

so i'm wondering if you're married to a Thai and don't have a uni degree, you'll never work here legally? is that right?

i was wondering the same thing. anyone? info please?

and me - im wondering cos we have just made moves to start something here!!!

Or is this aimed at TEACHING making sure they have the right degrees to teach the kids of this very very very fast developing country - errrm!

[Crossy]

I'm confused.

Section 3.3 of the form attached by Sunbelt and the better ones from the MoL site states as the requirement:-

Copy of certificate of education OR

Recommendation from previous employer OR

Recommendation from prospective employer

[hhgz]

All of this angst is humorous, and shows an elevated level of hypocrisy. I'm guessing that all of the TVers who have posted are seething mad about the current immigration laws in their home country, and are upset that the threshold to immigrate hasn't been raised. Now, you're getting the sense of what it's like to have the threshold raised.

[tommyuk]

Honestly, this is bordering on the ridiculous!

I have applied for my work permit since the 21st of March '11 and until now, I have still not received it! I have no idea why and the labour office are not giving out any reasons. Funnily enough, when I asked them if I don't get my work permit before my visa runs out in a few days, i was told that my visa is not their problem. I suspect they will ask me for all this new information, cause delays and then I'll have to start the whole process again. More money in the Thai systems pockets.

I have to ask, how many of us expats have copies or access to our education certificates? I know I didn't carry them with me to LOS! I don't have a degree and my previous employer here in Thailand has closed his business and moved away some years ago, so where does that leave me?

It feels like another "tea money tax" coming in for all of us expats that don't fit the criteria. As some of the replies state, it seems that Thailand is constantly making it more difficult for us to live here, work here even after police visiting me for "monetary gifts" or free products. I am sure we will be able to pay if we don't have the qualifications but I have to ask, I am 40+ year old and cant think what my educational qualifications have to do with setting up a business here.. ...anyone?

"Extensions of work permits (WP 5) will now also require a map to the office and a medical certificate. The medical certificate is valid for only 6 months so annual renewal of work permits will now require a new medical certificate including the exam for the usual diseases and the syphilis test."

Really!! what has my health got to do with this and the diseases they check for are a joke too! We all know it is easy to go to a doctor and get a med cert without any testing done. Just another money making scam for us expats to dance to. Is it not enough that we pay through the nose to set up our business's? It's like a we're in a living circus with us jumping through very small hoops of fire whilst doused in petrol!

I can understand why more and more expats leave Thailand but then again, isn't this what "they want" because if it is not, some one is doing a sure fire job to make it feel this way.

Isn't it enough that us business owners that go through all the correct motions, spend money, employ thai staff, travel back and forth for visas, pay tea money, pay our taxes to make business get so much red tape when their attention should be on those that don't have work permits and just seem to be left quietly alone - what gives????

"Drop you wallets off at the airport and go back home ." is the motto of LOS.

This a whole new ball game. So they are implying that anyone who doesn't have a degree Blah Blah Blah will not get a work Permit ? So all these people who invest ZILLIONS into this country will no longer be accepted ? Does this include the mafia ? Looks like more ex-pats might be asking their loved ones to vote for Thaksin's entourage back in, since he has said will make things easier for Farangs ?

[NanaFoods]

This all sounds like a lot of bureaucratic crap to me.

What if you don't have any kind of degree or you're straight out of Uni and don't have a previous employer ?

...or if a person has never worked for another... entrepreneurs (business owners) must be exempted from this by sheer logic.

Thai bureaucrats don't "do" logic.

[virtualtraveller]

Since when did you need to be a uni graduate to qualify for a job in Thailand, I'm not certain this would hold when challenged in the courts, even if it is a stipulation laid down by immigration. There are many specialist jobs that don't require a degree. It's discriminatory according to the constitution. And what then about the double standards of the 'special' permits for the millions of uneducated Burmese they need to build all their houses?

As to married and working, they are two different things, if you are here on a marriage visa you are entitled to stay, but should you wish to work you need a work permit and that needs to be presented to immigration. For several years I had both, but it just complicated things and gave good old immigration more excuses to give me the run around and wait for me to say 'ok, how much..'. Eventually I dropped the WP and gave it to one of my staff, now I 'work' in Thailand for my UK registered company, living here on a spousal visa. Incidentally I divested the assets of my Thai company to the newly established UK one for this reason, and besides the corp tax is slightly less - so Thailand's revenue services get a million baht less a year, pity.

[Kilgore Trout]

It's pretty obvious that they want us here if we can 'prove our worth' so to speak but don't want us here if we can't!! Also, maybe fewer people will bother to get a work permit and this will lead to extra 'revenue' to the usual suspects when finding Aliens working without said permit!!!

Thailand, still proving to be ultra Nationalistic, inward looking and backwards, just what one should expect from a 3rd world mentality with an old elite in control.

Before you lament over what you call the 3rd world mentality - spend a few thoughts on how it works in any of the 1st worlds. Can anybody just come and get a work permit without proving by any means that he is qualified for the job? If you apply for a job in your home country, do you mention your degree in your resume and attach some documents to it?

Some people bash on Thailand as a 3rd world country every and each time it makes a step closer to the first world.

Keep in mind that the type of English teaching jobs this will affect the most are those making 15-35k per month; so the question is, faced with these new restrictions are employers willing to pay more?

Do you think you can get a qualified teacher on this salary?

That is the funny part, they want real teachers but are paying peanuts.

Don't think this will affect those making upwards of 80k (ie. those working in real schools with real qualifications).

[scorecard]

All this paperwork and they are unable to issue a proper ID card for people with work visas. Lame~~~

TheWalkingMan

- Looks like the bash the Thais fraternity is up early this morning.

- What ID card are you talking about? You get a work permit book, is that not sufficient?

- Did Sunbelt give total information about every possible scenario about issue of work permits? No, they gave a quick summary. Do you really expect that the Sunbelt summary would include every possibility about new graduates plus new business and every other configuration?

- Go to the Labour office in Samut Prakan, Pathom Thani, Chonburi city, Chiang Mai, Lampang and you will see hundreds of people getting work permits who obviously don't have degrees and quite possible many of them have no more than very basic primary education.

- Many years ago I worked for an oil company which wanted to bring in dozens of specialists needed for a major plant start up. Most of them didn't have university degrees but they did have enormous and highly valuable and critical experience. This was all explained to the head of the local labour office and he quickly agreed to authorize work permits for these people. Plus he visited the plant, he was invited to take a tour, which he readily agreed to then he gave a quick presentation to the Thai staff who were to be involved in preparing the work permit applications, plus he visited another couple of times to check that the process was working smoothly, and it was.

I'm also aware of another case, one of the international hypermarket operators, they brought in dozens of Europeans, many didn't have a degree but did have long-term enormous experience which was needed to set-up / start-up the business, all explained to the Labour office, no problem, work permits issued.

Edited June 23, 2011 by scorecard

[KKK]

This all sounds like a lot of bureaucratic crap to me.

What if you don't have any kind of degree or you're straight out of Uni and don't have a previous employer ?

...or if a person has never worked for another... entrepreneurs (business owners) must be exempted from this by sheer logic.

Thai bureaucrats don't "do" logic.

Thai's don't "do" logic...period......it ain't just the bureaucrats