Retirement Extension In Nakhon Si Thammarat Report

[Mamasun]

I went today there...and ask to make my visa extension ...first a man tell me and give me the famous piece of paper about what i speak in an other topic : that the retirement requirements have change and I need to have:

1. picture of me and my Thaie family in and outside the house...

2. 800000 bahts for 3 months or 65000 bahts the months and no combinaison is possible !!!!!

3. have to draw a map.

4 . have to get the paper from landlord with his chanote and id card

5. need to have id card from the people on pictures with me.

and n6.. proove of pension transfert into a Thai bank every month !!!

ect ect ect...

when I said that this requirements are for marriage ...the answer was NO ...we need to have that or no "visa".

So I was in shock and I am still be !....I thinck to myself ok..I wait.. and I have begin to sail my boat throuth this difficult weather...triyng to don't make them angry and in the same time get what i need ...

I had so many many papers with me...and then they have begin to look at all this...and slowy I'v tell what is what...pouah sooo difficult...

I had prepare my 2 bank books, my ambassy papers ,my pension papers..letter from bank... the landlord blue book copy ect ect...( i still rented a house) picture from me in and outside the house and by chance....a picture from an old Thai lady with who I make garden sometimes...

well I am going to make short now...yes I get it ...with the promises to bring them next times copy of the Thaie id card and picture from me with my Thaie family..lolll....

Sorry for "my" English...

Edited July 6, 2011 by Mamasun

[Prajak]

Sorry for you. I hope this is not the beginning of a witch hunt where we farang are the hunted. I am due over 26 days.....

[moe666]

to bad you cannot get the extension of stay at a office that understands the rules a bit better but as it has been explained many times some offices will require more than actually needed.

Edited July 6, 2011 by moe666

[Mamasun]

to bad you cannot get the extension of stay at a office that understands the rules a bit better but as it has been explained many times some offices will require more than actually needed.

I really need to do something about that..its make me really sick to thinck that every year.. they can ask me want they want ...even if its not the rules...I built a house ,who will be finish in 3 months...and right now I feel really like an unwanted idiot here ! I know us foreigner we don't have any rights , and cannot complain about ! but sometimes I am tired to play the idiot who must lie to get his rights...I fell dirty ! by the hell ..how a retired person can show picture of his Thai family ..grrrrr

ps...I have use the combine methode....pension and money in bank...and they insist that the money must be in bank for 3 months

[moe666]

I guess take them a copy of the rules in english and Thai and point out the error of their ways and see what happens. I feel for you but sometime life isn't fair. Where did you apply before and what where their policy. Sometime we just got to eat our pride what can we do.

[Mamasun]

I guess take them a copy of the rules in english and Thai and point out the error of their ways and see what happens. I feel for you but sometime life isn't fair. Where did you apply before and what where their policy. Sometime we just got to eat our pride what can we do.

It is not a question of pride...but of rules ! how can an immigration office do what they want with the law ????

I am not worry about my pride...but to don't get my visa extension if next time they ask for more fantasy things !!!!

they don't care about the rules writing on paper...they tell me that there is like this . and i need to accept that .

I really need to contact immigration in Bangkok (but they don't answer the phone)...and it will be not enought only to get informations about the visa...I know already everything about that...

Is somebody know where is the big autority here in Thailand for immigration problémes ???

I have already before Nakhon make 2 extension in Phuket...and it was no probléme...

Like I said..I am going to live here in my own house....and I cannot live with the idea they can ask for what is not the law...I came to Thailand because i meet all the requirements for retirement visa...It need now to continue to be the same..I get my OA visa in my home country ....and I have now my life here..nothing more in my country .

If Sunbelt or somebody who was in the same situation please let me know...because 1 year is quick pass and I don't want to get probléme again next time..!...i come here to live in peace my retirement time and not to worry every 5 minutes about this immigration office !

Thanck for your understanding

[wimpy]

Can't you do your extension in Bangkok? Sounds like it would be worth the travel.

[Mario2008]

Extensions must be made at the office for the area where you live. You cannot choose your office.

[Prajak]

So change the province/region. Find a fellow farang who owns a house in some way and is in the yellow housebook and can sign the papers that you rent his house. Sometimes they do not accept that and want the owner of the soil to sign: well, that is that farang's lady. In that case you live for just one day in that province/region and can you ask for an extension there. And than you move to some province where your lady happens to rent or own a house....

It is so strange that every offical can make his/hers own rules. I have the same problem in my province. I now have the statement from the embassy that I signed a piece of paper stating my income in euro. That piece of paper must be verified at Chaeng Wattana.

To prove my income I must show evidence over 2 months. And that evidence, if not in TH or Eng, must be translated and verified too..... I am working on that item now. My bankaccounts and annual statements are in Dutch......

[barryofthailand]

I think you might of misunderstood the Immigration officer. What I believe he or she was explaining to you was the different types of extension IE extension to support a Thai spouse, retirement extension using money in the bank option, and retirement extension using monthly income option. These are three ways you may obtain a one year extension.

Barry

[Maestro]

barryofthailand, the OP referred to the following option for the retirement extension, which you did not mention as an option but which is included in the Police Order 777/2551 (see text I made bold):

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted

for no more than one year.

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than

Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a

deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to

the filing date; or

(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht

800,000 as of the filing date.

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively

permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in

a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of

no less than Baht 20,000.

( If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed

income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht

500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

The original Thai text is here, if anybody wishes to see it.

[Maestro]

To complete the information, I give below also the text regarding required documents from the Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551:

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted

for no more than one year.

1. Application form

2. Copy of applicant’s passport

3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or

4. Funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook

5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4

stated above.

The Thai text is here: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy305-2551_th.pdf

[Mamasun]

To complete the information, I give below also the text regarding required documents from the Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551:

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted

for no more than one year.

1. Application form

2. Copy of applicant’s passport

3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or

4. Funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook

5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4

stated above.

The Thai text is here: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy305-2551_th.pdf

Thanck you Maestro ..but I show them ...and they tell me that what they ask its NEW requirements from Bangkok and they want what they ask for....grr even if by exemple the copy of the ID card from my Thai family was not writing on this grrr paper !!!!! its mean they make what they want..that's it.

[Maestro]

This puts you in a difficult situation, Mamasun. That sheet "New changes regarding the application for a retirement visa" does not look like something sent from immigration head office to you local office but like something your local office typed up, perhaps misinterpreting instructions they may have received from head office, perhaps in a meeting.

Police Order 777/2551 provides for an appeals process, described in paragraph 4:

4. In the case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be notified of

the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date following the date on which the permitted period

has lapsed.

If the alien wishes to seek reconsideration of the non-permission order under Paragraph 1 herein, he may submit one petition only in writing, stating the reasons and necessity, to a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector for which a written order accepting such petition must be issued first. The petitioner may submit the application together with supporting documents for consideration simultaneously.

The reconsideration must be completed within the period of time stated in Paragraph 1. During the reconsideration, competent officers must stamp permission allowing the alien seven business days from the submission date of the petition for reconsideration to wait for the result.

[Mario2008]

Alternativey you can contact the immirgation hotline and get confirmation what the current rules are. if necesarry they will contact the imigration ofice and tell them how to do it.

Hotline:1178 (They have English speaking officers).

[jfchandler]

Thanck you Maestro ..but I show them ...and they tell me that what they ask its NEW requirements from Bangkok and they want what they ask for....grr even if by exemple the copy of the ID card from my Thai family was not writing on this grrr paper !!!!! its mean they make what they want..that's it.

That document, which Mamasun has posted before in another thread, reads like it was written by an English speaker... not a Thai... and not in the usual Immigration Bureau officialese....

It certainly doesn't look or read like it came from Immigration HQ in Bangkok. But it also doesn't read like it was written by a Thai bureaucrat in Nakhon Nowhere...

[rizla]

Time to bump this post........Again, Korat numpties are at it again...this is my second year of the cannot do answear..

My first extension based on retirement was a nightmare this time no better...

Facts, applied for 1st extension, had to change my Lao 3 months visa into a non "O"..Fair enough...second i got my pension income noterised at the Uk consulate..third got my bank account letter from bank manager (using part and part method) BUT YOU PROBABLY KNOW WHATS COMING NEXT..

You need to leave the money part in your thai account and not touch it for three months SIr, then we will give you a 1 year extension based on retirement...My question then was , this money has to be in my account for three months for every application, answear, no sir just the first extension...ok so i followed their needs and got my 1 year extension last year...

Well today off i went with my noterised letter for this years pension, and my letter from bank manager showing what was in my account, 415,000 baht.....up to date (same day).. and before you ask, that plus my pension letter amount way exceeds the 800,000 baht or 65,000/month req`d..

I was then told by the officers at Korat that the would not give me an extension...WHAT!!!

I was told that i had to either pay them for a tourist visa for 7 days or piss off to cambodia or the likes and come back in on a vistor visa which they then would convert (for a fee) to a 3 month non "O" and was told that after the THREE MONTH seasoning of my money to come back and ask for a retirement extension again....

I had a copy in both english and thai of the rules, from this thread, but even the head officer said he cannot change the law, then i pointed out that rule 5 states for part and part no seasoning (On date of filing)...His dumb answear was, that rule five is linked to rules 123 and 4, and it states 3 months seasoning......He just doesn`t understand the word "OR".......

Advise please, my extension runs out tomorrow....

Does anyone have the current bangkok immigration tel number that they will answear, as the one i got from korat office (no answear) tel 021419889 , and will someone there with some brains be able to ring Korat and sort them out....officer name or number with some clout...

P.s.....i have posted on this issue before, and yes the guys in the know state no seasoning for sure, and the rules themselfs state so, but how to get it through to them up here..

kind regards

[Mario2008]

You are right, the immigration officer is wrong. Immigration hotline is 1178, they can contact your local immirgation office to set it straight but you wont be making any friends.

If money in the bank only, money has to be there 2 months for the first extension, 3 months for all next extensions.

Maybe contact the phone number, go to your local office and thell them what immigration HQ said. If still no, than ask to see a superior. If still no, than call the immigration hotline again and they can set it straight.

[rizla]

You are right, the immigration officer is wrong. Immigration hotline is 1178, they can contact your local immirgation office to set it straight but you wont be making any friends.

If money in the bank only, money has to be there 2 months for the first extension, 3 months for all next extensions.

Maybe contact the phone number, go to your local office and thell them what immigration HQ said. If still no, than ask to see a superior. If still no, than call the immigration hotline again and they can set it straight.

Thanks for the reply, only thing is, korat is 3 hours drive for me and if i go and get bumed off again.......Mmmmm

Thanks

[rizla]

UPDATE.......................

Contacted numerous numbers in bangkok today (immigration) ...head office etc..and they state that korat is correct...that you still need to season the part and part..( for 3 f...ing months) ...so the police order 777 is a lie....and not one of the four/five officers i spoke to WOULD contact Korat to rectify their mistake...

SO a warning for us all dont believe what their so called laws read and beware that some advice on here will (albeit quoted from the law) not allways be acceptable to the numties...

I had to go to cambodia today and get a two week tourist visa after meeting all their so called req`d conditions ....so i`m now after a succesful year on a retirement extension now demoted to a tourist, and have to bring in more bhat to live on until their three months seasoning is complete again, then pay up for 2 fees+my 2 week tourist visa...<deleted> (mai mee samone):angry::angry:

[Prajak]

Unbelievable ! But I believe you. Some officers do not know the rules. But even in the 1178 phone advice committee ? Unbelievable. But, as said before, every officer can make his/her own rules.

[jfchandler]

UPDATE.......................

Contacted numerous numbers in bangkok today (immigration) ...head office etc..and they state that korat is correct...that you still need to season the part and part..( for 3 f...ing months) ...so the police order 777 is a lie....and not one of the four/five officers i spoke to WOULD contact Korat to rectify their mistake...

This is kind of a serious issue being raised by the OP here based on his contact with the BKK Immigration hotline and Immigration locals in Korat...

If his account is correctly recounting what Immigration in BKK and Korat is actually saying, then that's a pretty fundamental change in the rules for the combination income method. Three months seasoning of funds has never been required under the combo income method.... So is Immigration really now saying it is required, contrary to what their own written regs say???

Perhaps TV member Lopburi or one of the other Immigration gurus here can shine some additional light on this...

It's one thing if some local upcountry Immigration officer goes off on a wild hair... It's another when the Immigration Hotline (supposedly reflecting central BKK Immigration) starts backing them up.

[rizla]

UPDATE.......................

Contacted numerous numbers in bangkok today (immigration) ...head office etc..and they state that korat is correct...that you still need to season the part and part..( for 3 f...ing months) ...so the police order 777 is a lie....and not one of the four/five officers i spoke to WOULD contact Korat to rectify their mistake...

This is kind of a serious issue being raised by the OP here based on his contact with the BKK Immigration hotline and Immigration locals in Korat...

If his account is correctly recounting what Immigration in BKK and Korat is actually saying, then that's a pretty fundamental change in the rules for the combination income method. Three months seasoning of funds has never been required under the combo income method.... So is Immigration really now saying it is required, contrary to what their own written regs say???

Perhaps TV member Lopburi or one of the other Immigration gurus here can shine some additional light on this...

It's one thing if some local upcountry Immigration officer goes off on a wild hair... It's another when the Immigration Hotline (supposedly reflecting central BKK Immigration) starts backing them up.

It is not a case of if the account is true, it is, and no disrespect to Lopburi and Mario and the likes,,,,,the correctly quote from the rules as i did...But the simple case is that police close ranks all around the world and here...

The rules are black and white but if one officer reads them wrongly an other officer would rather agree than question their counterpart..

A list of the numbers called....1111, 1178, 021419889, 021419915 and 021417890 and this issue was explained (nicely) to all in english and in thai but no one from bkk would do anything about it...So again season your part and part or you might just get the same crap as i have 2 years running....good luck when your time comes....i might just go and take some photos today and make use of my TOURIST VISA...

[Mario2008]

There has been no change to the rules. As Rizla says, it seems immigration closed ranks on this and are not willing to correct.

If immigration indeed changes its interpretation of the rules, I guess we soon will get other reports about this.

.

[rizla]

There has been no change to the rules. As Rizla says, it seems immigration closed ranks on this and are not willing to correct.

If immigration indeed changes its interpretation of the rules, I guess we soon will get other reports about this.

.

A slightly different angle Mario, is there not someone in the thai immigration who is there to represent the applicants...like one guy/lady who IS contactable and impartial..?

Oh, and we have had me on 2 occasions and the original OP report this on this thread alone....how many more who have not seen this report who suffered the same..

QUOTE....From Korat officers including the boss there...all our falangs need to season their money in full or for the part and part for three months...So it is happening there all the time...

We all know the various consulates here are of no use...

Camera on charge!

Edited August 6, 2011 by rizla

[Mamasun]

There has been no change to the rules. As Rizla says, it seems immigration closed ranks on this and are not willing to correct.

If immigration indeed changes its interpretation of the rules, I guess we soon will get other reports about this.

.

A slightly different angle Mario, is there not someone in the thai immigration who is there to represent the applicants...like one guy/lady who IS contactable and impartial..?

Oh, and we have had me on 2 occasions and the original OP report this on this thread alone....how many more who have not seen this report who suffered the same..

QUOTE....From Korat officers including the boss there...all our falangs need to season their money in full or for the part and part for three months...So it is happening there all the time...

We all know the various consulates here are of no use...

Camera on charge!

I maybe forget to precise...but in Nakhon si Thammarat they have also ask for three months seasonning on combination money + pension...ok this time i was not to worry about it, because I had the money for about 6 months on the account...BUT next time because this year i built my house...I will NOT have the money in time (3months ) to satisfied the immigrations officers there ;((

Rizla I fell very sorry for us ...I send many emails to Bangkok ..never receive any answer...

If you find any idea about our situation please let me know..I will do the same.

I am very sad that I CANNOT and NEVER trust or base my life here on something call law !!!

I have leave my country and change all my life at my age ...following the possibility to get an visa extension base on the law writing in Ambassy and immigration office in Bangkok ... Thaivisa is an open forum...that i hope many Thais peoples working for gouvernement can read...all I want its to have clear requirements to follow...that I see its not the case since some months now !

[rizla]

There has been no change to the rules. As Rizla says, it seems immigration closed ranks on this and are not willing to correct.

If immigration indeed changes its interpretation of the rules, I guess we soon will get other reports about this.

.

A slightly different angle Mario, is there not someone in the thai immigration who is there to represent the applicants...like one guy/lady who IS contactable and impartial..?

Oh, and we have had me on 2 occasions and the original OP report this on this thread alone....how many more who have not seen this report who suffered the same..

QUOTE....From Korat officers including the boss there...all our falangs need to season their money in full or for the part and part for three months...So it is happening there all the time...

We all know the various consulates here are of no use...

Camera on charge!

I maybe forget to precise...but in Nakhon si Thammarat they have also ask for three months seasonning on combination money + pension...ok this time i was not to worry about it, because I had the money for about 6 months on the account...BUT next time because this year i built my house...I will NOT have the money in time (3months ) to satisfied the immigrations officers there ;((

Rizla I fell very sorry for us ...I send many emails to Bangkok ..never receive any answer...

If you find any idea about our situation please let me know..I will do the same.

I am very sad that I CANNOT and NEVER trust or base my life here on something call law !!!

I have leave my country and change all my life at my age ...following the possibility to get an visa extension base on the law writing in Ambassy and immigration office in Bangkok ... Thaivisa is an open forum...that i hope many Thais peoples working for gouvernement can read...all I want its to have clear requirements to follow...that I see its not the case since some months now !

Yep, agree, looks like we and others are pissing agains`t the wind...Take care, regards.

[Maestro]

The formal appeals process is outlined in paragraph 4 of Police Order 777/2551 as follows:

4. In the case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be notified of the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date following the date on which the permitted period has lapsed.

If the alien wishes to seek reconsideration of the non-permission order under Paragraph 1 herein, he may submit one petition only in writing, stating the reasons and necessity, to a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector for which a written order accepting such petition must be issued first. The petitioner may submit the application together with supporting documents for consideration simultaneously. The reconsideration must be completed within the period of time stated in Paragraph 1. During the reconsideration, competent officers must stamp permission allowing the alien seven business days from the submission date of the petition for reconsideration to wait for the result.

"the alien must be notified of the non-permission order" usually means a verbal notification by the immigration officer, as experienced by two member who posted in this topic.

The appeal, in the English translation of Police Order 777/2551 called a "petition" for reconsideration of the non-permission of an extension of stay, must be made in writing, presumably in Thai language. It must be addressed to "a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector for which a written order accepting such petition must be issued first". How would I know what "competent officer" in the Korat immigration office has the required rank "equivalent to or higher than inspector"? Apparently, such petition can be given to this officer only after the issuance of "a written order accepting such petition". Who must issue this written order? Apparently, the petition for reconsideration must be made within seven days from the notification of refusal of the application, which means there is not much time for it. What if whoever must issue the "written order accepting such petition" does not issue it in good time?

Perhaps one would need the help of a lawyer to deal with this, a lawyer who understands and correctly interprets the original Thai text of Police Order 777/2551 and has experience with this type of petition. I suspect, though, that there is no lawyer anywhere in Thailand with this experience, and even if there were one, the cost would probably be many times more than the expense of doing a visa run and starting the application process all over again, this time with the unlawfully required three months' seasoning of the cash portion of the financial requirement. In other words, paragraph 4 of Police Order 777/2551 appears to serve no practical purpose (unless the original Thai text makes more sense).