Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[Insight]

Whatever 'side' you're on, things like this never make things better.

Have to agree. Tried, tested and failed. It hasn't taken PT very long in displaying the incompetence and cronyism we can expect to see much more of over the next few months/years, yet Dems feel the best way to dislodge PT is through the courts. Again.

What a circus.

[RobinHolmes]

Democrat Party? More like Autocrat Party!

[DumFarang]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

Agreed.

TRT got nailed. PPP also got nailed.

It seems they still haven't learned from experience and have left themselves open yet again. It seemed pretty obvious before hand that this case would be filed whether or not the Dems won...

It reminds of a scene in one of my favorite comedies Old School:

-Technically, that doesn't matter. They found a loophole. - A loophole?

- Yes.

Well, it's interesting, sir.

As stupid as they appear,they're actually very good at paperwork.

Edited July 8, 2011 by DumFarang

[CosmicSurfer]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

The people voted. Who cares about the law?

Too many criminals running around free in this Country!!!

No wonder everyone accepts corruption as a legitimate activity.

CS

[animatic]

Surely this is a double edged sword. It will strengthen te resolve of those who believe that the only way back to legality is to restore the 1997 Constitution (pending revision), roll back the changes to the judiciary introduced by the coup leaders, and re-impose the rule of law on those who try to subvert the will of the electorate.

What about those who subvert the rule of law to control the electorate?

In this case the Dems are filing using the rule of law to verify that PTP has acted legally to get elected.

If there is conviction and dissolution, then the only ones truly at fault are those that BROKE the laws, and not those who applied them through the courts.

Edited July 8, 2011 by animatic

[ToffeEFCpower]

If PTP have not broken the law, they have nothing to worry about.

[CosmicSurfer]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

Nothing Democratic about an election with Rampant Vote Buying.

CS

[CosmicSurfer]

Even so, more people voted for PT than voted for the Dems. A mandate from the people should mean something to people calling themselves democrats. Hanging on to power by means of the courts will not bring stability to the country. How can they not see that this move will bring more problems than it solves? In fact, what problem will it solve?

If PT and their supporters realise that they have a majority, and a mandate, but are not allowed to have power by democratic means, that does not mean that they will just say "oh ok then, fair enough, you run the country...sorry!"

Really really stupid idea. If you don't like the party that's been voted in, fair enough. Let them rule, show themselves for what they are, then the next election, you campaign against them. If you're right, and they're not popular, you'll win.

If you don't agree with how they rule, but they still have a majority, you lose.

Not all majority parties/governments are what we think they should be. That's just tough. The alternatives are worse. You get a large portion of your population who see no point in the democratic process and resort to other means to get what they think they deserve.

The result is a bloody mess.

Whatever 'side' you're on, things like this never make things better.

It took a Revolution to create the USA Democracy.

"When in the course of Human Events...."

CS

Edited July 8, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[bifftastic]

And to think this party calls itself "Democrat." They have absolutely no grasp of the term.

They lost, Puea Thai won with a true voting mandate. Move on.

So if I steal your car, you will accept it, because I was elected properly? If I am your elected mayor, and I kill your grandmother, its ok because I was elected? The tyranny of the majority - I see.

Quite frankly, I think they should Phuea Thai let govern the country. The first to suffer from their silly policies are the poor. It's time the poor and the reds get a real feel of what Phuea Thai is, otherwise they will never realize the truth. The workers are already calling for the 300 Baht wage raise, the reds are already calling for seats in Parliament and ministeries. Phuea Thai fed them with promises, now they are hungry and want the meat to be delivered. Raise the wages and let smaller factories go bankrupt so those workers will get jobless and end up having no income at all, let larger factories lay off people to cope with the increased cost and let those who remain work harder. Give tablets to all students so they don't do anything more than sitting around with their dammed tablets playing games, or eventually throwing them in a corner becase the parents can't afford the internet connection. Why get them banned and be the bad guy again? Let Phuea Thai govern and fail.

Exactly right! Given the opportunity to govern they will show themselves for what they are, if it doesn't work, everyone will see! If they are constantly prevented from governing, they will always be the 'hard-done-by voice of the people'

An unbelievably short-sighted and stupid move that does absolutely nothing for the country, or for the Dem's long-term future.

[whybother]

Quite frankly, I think they should Phuea Thai let govern the country. The first to suffer from their silly policies are the poor. It's time the poor and the reds get a real feel of what Phuea Thai is, otherwise they will never realize the truth. The workers are already calling for the 300 Baht wage raise, the reds are already calling for seats in Parliament and ministeries. Phuea Thai fed them with promises, now they are hungry and want the meat to be delivered. Raise the wages and let smaller factories go bankrupt so those workers will get jobless and end up having no income at all, let larger factories lay off people to cope with the increased cost and let those who remain work harder. Give tablets to all students so they don't do anything more than sitting around with their dammed tablets playing games, or eventually throwing them in a corner becase the parents can't afford the internet connection. Why get them banned and be the bad guy again? Let Phuea Thai govern and fail.

I definitely agree. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.

If this action results in PTP (or their next incarnation - that they HAVE already set up BTW) losing government, it's just a big step backwards.

I hope PTP are banned, as it serves a warning that political parties can't break the laws, but I hope that new-PTP remain in office, just so the people can see how incompetent they are and how ridiculous their policies are.

[animatic]

jkolak' timestamp='1310110431' post='4543965'

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

Even more dangerous. It won't make them go away.

Maybe they need to be put in jail, just to make sure they stay out of politics ... as the law states that they must do.

Assuming, dangerous I know, that the goal is a more stable political system, I would suggest that putting your political rivals in jail is, perhaps, not the best way to proceed?

Unless, of course, due to the shifting balance of power in the world, the Thai 'establishment' is in favour of copying the Chinese model of 'democracy'?

No one would go to jail for election law violations.

Terrorism and incitement to riot certainly.

Of course chronically breaking election laws is not a sign of a stable democratic process is it?

[rixalex]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet),

What's your proof for that? They found Thaksin guilty so they can't possibly be neutral? They refused the 2 million baht bribe his lawyers offered on his behalf, so they must be biased?

or perhaps the Chidchob/Sunthep government offered more?

Chidchob/Sunthep government? Whomever you are referring to, they weren't in power during the trial.

[hawksway]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

Absolutely!

[hanuman1]

Whatever 'side' you're on, things like this never make things better.

Have to agree. Tried, tested and failed. It hasn't taken PT very long in displaying the incompetence and cronyism we can expect to see much more of over the next few months/years, yet Dems feel the best way to dislodge PT is through the courts. Again.

What a circus.

I agree. A strange move by the Dems. It's almost as if they are being influenced by persons who aren't supposed to be involved in politics.....or is that the PTP? It's probably both. Political parties are the not-involved-megalomaniacs' go-to choice of proxy.

Edited July 8, 2011 by hanuman1

[drdoom6996]

I am not a fan of the new governing body. But what the heck. Let them show every Thai they can do what they said they would do. The infighting must stop for Thailand or they will just have another ordeal like May 2010. And don't forget this infighting is by the smallest percentage of Thais. It certainly is not for the people.

[spidermike007]

If anybody was wondering, this is proof that the democratic party is run by very small men, completely lacking in vlsion. Though I was once a supporter, I am now thrilled they lost. Obviously they are now attempting to resort to any means necessary, to deny their adversary the power the people have granted them. This is nothing more than a number of colonels and generals that do not want to see their power, and the accompanying wealth diminish. It is predictable, but nonetheless disappointing, from a group of half men, who cannot accept the fact that the status quo may be diminishing? One can only hope the courts can find enough objectivity, to toss them onto the street, where these mindless numskulls belong.

[letitbe]

Perhaps all the Thaksin haters and by implication Democrat supporters will now wake up and realize the true nature of the people they support.

No-one who support the current government support democracy.

The people in as free and fair election as you are ever going to have in Thailand have decided and they've come out in their millions to defeat the current administration.

This current Democratic Party move (Democratic? - what a joke) opens the door for a return to seeing tanks on the streets of Bangkok yet again.

I dont suppose it will be long.

personally i dont care if it stops that evil megalomaniac turning Thailand into his own personal serfdom. Whichever way its going to get really nasty here. IF Taksin is allowed back then it will probably be war if not it will probably be war. All PTP had to do was not involve Taksin but no and yes people of North want him and people of south dont. Cant see how it is ever going to get sorted until Taksin himself does decent thing and steps aside totally. MAybe just split country into 2 kingdoms and let north have their saviour and Bangkok and south can get on with being free of that maniac.

[CosmicSurfer]

And to think this party calls itself "Democrat." They have absolutely no grasp of the term.

They lost, Puea Thai won with a true voting mandate. Move on.

All these supposed Westerners that have no Clue about what makes a "REAL" Democracy....

With so many apologists willing to accept and condone the Undemocratic way this country is run, it's no wonder why Thailand remains "Amazing" to those that really believe in, and Hope that Thailand can one day become a "True" democracy... Not a False one, which has been in place up to now, and so many Buffaloes Crocodiles are prepared to excuse.

CS

Edited July 8, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[paulrobertlane]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

Nothing Democratic about an election with Rampant Vote Buying.

CS

The vote buying issue cuts two ways.

1. The Dems were buying in my town where they lost their previuous majority narrowly. Why do people only seem to assume it is PTP doing this when clearly it is not.

2. People take the money but many dont actually vote for those who paid them. Once insdie the voting booth they can simply put their cross wherever they choose.

3. It was alleged that vote buying took place in a constituency where PTP got 71,000 votes and Dems under 1500. That would be a very stupid waste of 7m baht!

I dont dispute that vote buying goes on, and certainly dont condone it, but how do we know the people who take the money vote for that party and perhaos more importantly how do we know they would not have voted that way anyhow.

[Pi Sek]

This is not about the Democrats contesting the result - the result can't be overturned anyway, as some PT fans are trying to suggest.

This is about adhering to the Law. If PT is disbanded, the PT constituency MPs will have their seats but will just have to set up another party under which to gather, potentially with different party-list MPs. Remember, the people didn't vote for Yinglak, they voted for Peau Thai's local representative in their consituency (well, except for ANYWHERE within 800km of where I live!).

[Geratul]

Normally before a election the Election Committee should revise if a party is legal to participate in a election.

When I read this my I got really sick of those who doesn't like the outcome of a election. Yeah Democrats, you guys loose the elections and that will be for many years to come!

Respect the outcome of this election to avoid a civil war in Thailand.

Do you know what the same OUTGOING ruling party should do with the ET? look how it comes that more then 2 million people couldn't vote last Sunday because of the everlasting paperwork and lousy working electronic systems. My wife went for voting including her invitation. When she arrived at the election office, she look at the list outside to check and "yes" her name was there as well.

But then... when she ask for the voting papers... "can not find your name"... You are still in Bangkok... yeah yeah... we live already more then 3 years in Samutprakan incl. the original invitation.. and what they said? "next time you can vote"... is that another democratic way in Thailand? wow... and that overcome more then 2 million people. Nice country. Lucky for us PT won the elections and we both really hope that PT make the step forward to bring Thailand to that level it should be. It's too long that noting happens here, besides the corruption of the NOW ruling elite.

[rixalex]

Quite frankly, I think they should Phuea Thai let govern the country. The first to suffer from their silly policies are the poor. It's time the poor and the reds get a real feel of what Phuea Thai is, otherwise they will never realize the truth. The workers are already calling for the 300 Baht wage raise, the reds are already calling for seats in Parliament and ministeries. Phuea Thai fed them with promises, now they are hungry and want the meat to be delivered. Raise the wages and let smaller factories go bankrupt so those workers will get jobless and end up having no income at all, let larger factories lay off people to cope with the increased cost and let those who remain work harder. Give tablets to all students so they don't do anything more than sitting around with their dammed tablets playing games, or eventually throwing them in a corner becase the parents can't afford the internet connection. Why get them banned and be the bad guy again? Let Phuea Thai govern and fail.

Exactly right! Given the opportunity to govern they will show themselves for what they are, if it doesn't work, everyone will see! If they are constantly prevented from governing, they will always be the 'hard-done-by voice of the people'

An unbelievably short-sighted and stupid move that does absolutely nothing for the country, or for the Dem's long-term future.

I also agree that it would be better for the country if this all comes to nothing, but i would like it to come to nothing because there is no foundation to it - .because PTP have followed the law. If they haven't, what do people expect the opposition party to do? To ignore it? To let it go? Why should they? Because people who voted for PTP will not like it?

If there is truth to it, people who voted for PTP should be angry. Not with the Dems or with the judiciary, but with the PTP for being so stupid... again.

[animatic]

There is something to be said for letting PTP try and fail spectacularly.

But if they did not get elected legally, then they actually are NOT elected.

That really should be determined, whether most of their MPs stay in office or all of them.

In any case the Rule Of Law will be applied.

[jdinasia]

This is not about the Democrats contesting the result - the result can't be overturned anyway, as some PT fans are trying to suggest.

This is about adhering to the Law. If PT is disbanded, the PT constituency MPs will have their seats but will just have to set up another party under which to gather, potentially with different party-list MPs. Remember, the people didn't vote for Yinglak, they voted for Peau Thai's local representative in their consituency (well, except for ANYWHERE within 800km of where I live!).

This is also not about "vote-buying" ..... IF this goes forward whatever the new replacement is for TRT/PPP/PTP is will still have enough seats to control parliament AND they could seek a fresh mandate. (Hopefully this time without using a banned politician)

[DNPBC0]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

but the law of the land isn't scraped just because a new government comes in - acts and laws are passed by parliament, but interpreted by the courts. If the new Gov wants to change the law and can get it through parliament, that still does not excuse people processed under the earlier law as it stood then - unless a specific law is written to do just that (de-legitimise the previous law). This would be a very unsafe thing to do in this case - the best legal way would be to try and overturn the rling of the court in so far that they believe it was an unsafe presecution of that law (i.e. the judgment can not be trusted for whatever reason) - this would take a court of appeal (or above) hearing. Therefore, they do have a case which can be made. However, given the support just shown by the people and the passion last year, how wise a decision it is to push it remains to be seen. As stated above already, this will have little impact as there are so many TPT MPs now sitting - and it would take a lot to prove a case of complete party dissolution I would think (and I doubt there is the appetite currently either - people in the judiciary are probably worrying about their jobs as it is).

In other parts of the universe, I would probably agree with you, but this is Neverland. Remember what happened after the 2006 coup? The junta quickly introduced an Interim Constitution, which gave immunity (Article 37) to the coup leaders for their act of treason. I can hardly wait to hear the reactions of those members and supporters of the Democrat Party who were closely associated with the coup (Prayuth, Prawit etc etc) if the new Government under Yingluck decides to let themselves off the hook by fiddling with the later permanent Charter, which, incidentally, was rail-roaded into existence by the junta following a highly mischievous referendum process.

[Prasannas]

This is just the Begin of politic show.. more to come.....

[whybother]

This is not about the Democrats contesting the result - the result can't be overturned anyway, as some PT fans are trying to suggest.

This is about adhering to the Law. If PT is disbanded, the PT constituency MPs will have their seats but will just have to set up another party under which to gather, potentially with different party-list MPs. Remember, the people didn't vote for Yinglak, they voted for Peau Thai's local representative in their consituency (well, except for ANYWHERE within 800km of where I live!).

Even the party list MPs stay on ... unless they are part of the executive.

[wxpwzrd]

Actually, since it is likely both of the majors (PTP and Dems) are guilty of vote buying, it would be interesting to see them both banned from politics. Let Thailand get a real first chance at establishing something meaningful.

[hanuman1]

There is something to be said for letting PTP try and fail spectacularly.

But if they did not get elected legally, then they actually are NOT elected.

That really should be determined, whether most of their MPs stay in office or all of them.

In any case the Rule Of Law will be applied.

"In any case the Rule Of Law will be applied."

Yep, just like it has been for decades in Thailand. Not.

[spongeman]

If the Democrats pull another stunt like the last time then let the Reds lash out to obtain justice.

Obviously the Democrats have'nt noticed the surname of the person who is in charge now,