Baptism Of Fire A Sign Of Things To Come For Yingluck

[scorecard]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

Show us the link!

I can't find it anywhere on BP site.

Or are you just making it up?

It's the feature story on the front page

Go to bangkokpostdotcom today, you'll trip over it.

[noahvail]

A lot of PTP spokespeople have been stressing today 300 baht within a year countrywide. Everyone knows the policy, so they really have to deliver. The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters. Interesting

Frankly, at this point, which of the spokespeople can you believe? One day it's on, the next day it's off, the next day back on again. Consistency - or speaking with one voice - is evidently not at the top of their skill set.

[scorecard]

A lot of PTP spokespeople have been stressing today 300 baht within a year countrywide. Everyone knows the policy, so they really have to deliver. The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters. Interesting

1. Can you provide some evidence that their spokespeople have been saying within one year countrywide?

2. You said : "The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters." Also a minefield, implementing it in a way that doesn't bring up a many other complications, and also posibly loses voters.

Another example: 15,000Baht minimum for all new graduates. Now it's morphed to 15,000Baht for government employees.

I have a relative who started teaching (graduated about 12 months ago, fully qualified, the new 5 year education degree), she gets 6,800BAht a month in a government school. Her university alumni asked some red shirt bigwigs whether the 15,000BAht policy extends to new teachers, - answer, teachers are not real government employees.

[whybother]

A lot of PTP spokespeople have been stressing today 300 baht within a year countrywide. Everyone knows the policy, so they really have to deliver. The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters. Interesting

Thaksin said that the 300 baht was only for Bangkok. I believe him.

[whybother]

A lot of PTP spokespeople have been stressing today 300 baht within a year countrywide. Everyone knows the policy, so they really have to deliver. The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters. Interesting

1. Can you provide some evidence that their spokespeople have been saying within one year countrywide?

...

From the article mentioned above.

"But we are determined to increase the wage to 300 baht a day in every province within one year," Mr Plodprasop, a Pheu Thai list MP, said.

[Jingthing]

Red shirt voters -- fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice (plus plus) shame on ME.

[lannarebirth]

The Election Commission notwithstanding its origins has an important job to do.If it did not exist its functions would need to be performed by another body.I think therefore notwithstanding any reservations about its cautious approach it should be given the benefit of the doubt.At the same time most non partisan observers will recognise the danger of the EC perhaps involuntarily being enlisted in the battle between the unelected elites and the Thai people as whole.It's too early in my view to draw any conclusions on this front though clearly this needs to be monitored.The EC must do its job with care and urgency.But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people, not to kowtow to the forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes.

I would have thought that their reason for existence is to uphold the election laws.

The will of the people can be used to change laws through parliament. It shouldn't be used to override existing laws.

Especially when it's potentially only the will of some of the people.

As Suranand Vejjaviva points out in the other paper the EC was created as an instrument of democracy and thus should serve the people's interest, not those elements which are trying to distort it.

I don't understand your last sentence.Are you suggesting the PTP and its coalition partners don't have a democratic mandate?

TRT gained a people's mandate in the 2001 elections. Another instrument of democracy, The Constitutional Court acquitted him of assets concealment, though in private they siad he was guilty. Their justification was that he had a popular mandate so they were therefore afraid to apply the law. Do you think that was the right decision and how these "instruments of democracy" should work?

Jayboy? Jaaaayboooy! Where'd you go?

[OzMick]

I believe that on Monday, perhaps Tuesday, it will be announced that to ease in the credit card scheme, initially they will only be available to rice farmers in Bangkok and Phuket provinces.

[JAG]

A fine response.

The question then arises who monitors the monitors.

Why, the Privy Council, of course. Unofficially maybe.

And who leads the PC?

Bullseye. And that is what is driving this whole business.

[Crushdepth]

Actually it's the "invisible hand" of Thaksin that's driving this whole business. Thanks for voting, SUCKERS...

[hammered]

There are hands driving every participant in this little thing. Thaksin is a bit more visible than some of the other players. I dont think anyone who has followed poltics over the last decade would deny that. You have a bitter power struggle between an old and new elite all tangled up in long standing social inequalities that have been around for too long coming to a head. Throw on a couple of other things and you have a right old mess

[scorecard]

A lot of PTP spokespeople have been stressing today 300 baht within a year countrywide. Everyone knows the policy, so they really have to deliver. The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters. Interesting

1. Can you provide some evidence that their spokespeople have been saying within one year countrywide?

...

From the article mentioned above.

"But we are determined to increase the wage to 300 baht a day in every province within one year," Mr Plodprasop, a Pheu Thai list MP, said.

When did he say that, today?

[tominbkk]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

Show us the link!

I can't find it anywhere on BP site.

Or are you just making it up?

I read it in hard copy today, front page! Should be online....

[Crushdepth]

"You have to understand, it was a campaign speech. But we are committed to lying about it for another 12 months."

[lannarebirth]

There are hands driving every participant in this little thing. Thaksin is a bit more visible than some of the other players. I dont think anyone who has followed poltics over the last decade would deny that. You have a bitter power struggle between an old and new elite all tangled up in long standing social inequalities that have been around for too long coming to a head. Throw on a couple of other things and you have a right old mess

But I think you'll agree this is a Chinese vs. Chinese fight. The ones from a couple hundred years ago who came into the service of the monarchy, vs. the ones in the last 100 years who settled in the provinces. The Thais are merely the chips on the table.

[whybother]

When did he say that, today?

Google "Workers vent ire at wage backflip"

Edited July 15, 2011 by whybother

[lannarebirth]

When did he say that, today?

Google "Workers vent ire at wage backflip"

Would anyone care to place a wager (jk) that the inability to follow through on this promise will be blamed on entrenched opposing interests, rather than the lying liars who first floated this lie.

[gamini]

Yes I believe they are, but they are always under tremendous pressure and threats from politicians

Who are the Election Commission and are they totally above board, independent , and untainted by any skeletons in the closet?

[tigermonkey]

There are hands driving every participant in this little thing. Thaksin is a bit more visible than some of the other players. I dont think anyone who has followed poltics over the last decade would deny that. You have a bitter power struggle between an old and new elite all tangled up in long standing social inequalities that have been around for too long coming to a head. Throw on a couple of other things and you have a right old mess

But I think you'll agree this is a Chinese vs. Chinese fight. The ones from a couple hundred years ago who came into the service of the monarchy, vs. the ones in the last 100 years who settled in the provinces. The Thais are merely the chips on the table.

You're not supposed to notice that ! Actually the time difference is not that great for many of the Hakka Chinese who "came into the service of the monarchy" -- many of these families came here more recently via Viet Nam, such as the family of the outgoing prime minister.

[animatic]

Who are the Election Commission and are they totally above board, independent , and untainted by any skeletons in the closet?

The Election Commission notwithstanding its origins has an important job to do.If it did not exist its functions would need to be performed by another body.I think therefore notwithstanding any reservations about its cautious approach it should be given the benefit of the doubt.At the same time most non partisan observers will recognise the danger of the EC perhaps involuntarily being enlisted in the battle between the unelected elites and the Thai people as whole.It's too early in my view to draw any conclusions on this front though clearly this needs to be monitored.The EC must do its job with care and urgency.But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people, not to kowtow to the forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes.

I agree without except in the last line.

"The EC must do its job with care and urgency.

But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people,..."

I disagree with this.

The EC is there to make sure ALL politicians are acting within the election rules,

as delineated by a constitution voted in by the populace

and parliamentary rules voted by their representatives.

That is it's ONLY brief not pelase the voters of any particular election.

The size of size of plurality of any winner or loser, should have absolutely NO BEARING on their enforcement of the laws.

I can also see that those 'manipulating the vote' and 'buying votes' and 'controlling what the voters see and hear

in a biased or false manner' or while banned attempting to control the voters or a party

as also "forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes."

PS Newin, Banharn et al, included.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Why do some people keep saying that Thaksin is the invisible hand? His hand is VERY visible.

As for who or what the invisible hand is... well, let's say I am on thin ice. I have already been suspended once, recently.

[Crushdepth]

Why do some people keep saying that Thaksin is the invisible hand? His hand is VERY visible.

As for who or what the invisible hand is... well, let's say I am on thin ice. I have already been suspended once, recently.

Why? Thaksin loves to allude to "the invisible hand" as the source of all his woes and frankly I think it's a shameful exercise in blame shifting. If you're looking for dirty manipulations and puppetry, there is no need for elaborate conspiracy theories. Thaksin and his $$$ are your man.

Of course, it could never be *his* fault that he was chucked out. He is an upstanding, morally uprighteous citizen that wouldn't dream of putting his hand in the till, stacking state offices with relatives, abusing his own office for personal gain or slaughtering the kids of a few thousand red shirts and then asking them to vote for him.

Not convinced? When it comes to development projects for the poor, set aside the propaganda. Who has an established track record and the most street cred? The answer is obvious, but you can Google it if necessary. In fact, you'd have to be a brain-dead zombie to believe the rubbish pouring out of the filthy mouth of a disgusting, lying, corrupt, self-interested criminal fugitive who can't even bring himself to pay taxes and isn't satisfied with the mere office of Prime Minister.

Seriously. Go look it up.

[lannarebirth]

Why do some people keep saying that Thaksin is the invisible hand? His hand is VERY visible.

As for who or what the invisible hand is... well, let's say I am on thin ice. I have already been suspended once, recently.

Why? Thaksin loves to allude to "the invisible hand" as the source of all his woes and frankly I think it's a shameful exercise in blame shifting. If you're looking for dirty manipulations and puppetry, there is no need for elaborate conspiracy theories. Thaksin and his $$$ are your man.

Of course, it could never be *his* fault that he was chucked out. He is an upstanding, morally uprighteous citizen that wouldn't dream of putting his hand in the till, stacking state offices with relatives, abusing his own office for personal gain or slaughtering the kids of a few thousand red shirts and then asking them to vote for him.

Not convinced? When it comes to development projects for the poor, set aside the propaganda. Who has an established track record and the most street cred? The answer is obvious, but you can Google it if necessary. In fact, you'd have to be a brain-dead zombie to believe the rubbish pouring out of the filthy mouth of a disgusting, lying, corrupt, self-interested criminal fugitive who can't even bring himself to pay taxes and isn't satisfied with the mere office of Prime Minister.

Seriously. Go look it up.

If you were a girl, I'd ask for your number. Well said!

[EvilDrSomkid]

Why do some people keep saying that Thaksin is the invisible hand? His hand is VERY visible.

As for who or what the invisible hand is... well, let's say I am on thin ice. I have already been suspended once, recently.

Why? Thaksin loves to allude to "the invisible hand" as the source of all his woes and frankly I think it's a shameful exercise in blame shifting. If you're looking for dirty manipulations and puppetry, there is no need for elaborate conspiracy theories. Thaksin and his $$$ are your man.

Of course, it could never be *his* fault that he was chucked out. He is an upstanding, morally uprighteous citizen that wouldn't dream of putting his hand in the till, stacking state offices with relatives, abusing his own office for personal gain or slaughtering the kids of a few thousand red shirts and then asking them to vote for him.

Not convinced? When it comes to development projects for the poor, set aside the propaganda. Who has an established track record and the most street cred? The answer is obvious, but you can Google it if necessary. In fact, you'd have to be a brain-dead zombie to believe the rubbish pouring out of the filthy mouth of a disgusting, lying, corrupt, self-interested criminal fugitive who can't even bring himself to pay taxes and isn't satisfied with the mere office of Prime Minister.

Seriously. Go look it up.

You did not understand what I wrote. What I said, was he (Thaksin) is not the invisible hand that most people refer to. I don't believe his propaganda at all and you are probably right that he blames it all on this hand.

There is no elaborate conspiracy theory involved. Who the invisible hand is, is quite clear. And no, I do not have proof I can present here without being banned or arrested for violating certain laws.

Your rant was pointless. I got nothing to look up. You are preaching to the congregation.

However, you got one thing wrong IMO. He quite rightly blames his woes on the IH.

Edited July 15, 2011 by EvilDrSomkid

[lannarebirth]

Why do some people keep saying that Thaksin is the invisible hand? His hand is VERY visible.

As for who or what the invisible hand is... well, let's say I am on thin ice. I have already been suspended once, recently.

Why? Thaksin loves to allude to "the invisible hand" as the source of all his woes and frankly I think it's a shameful exercise in blame shifting. If you're looking for dirty manipulations and puppetry, there is no need for elaborate conspiracy theories. Thaksin and his $$$ are your man.

Of course, it could never be *his* fault that he was chucked out. He is an upstanding, morally uprighteous citizen that wouldn't dream of putting his hand in the till, stacking state offices with relatives, abusing his own office for personal gain or slaughtering the kids of a few thousand red shirts and then asking them to vote for him.

Not convinced? When it comes to development projects for the poor, set aside the propaganda. Who has an established track record and the most street cred? The answer is obvious, but you can Google it if necessary. In fact, you'd have to be a brain-dead zombie to believe the rubbish pouring out of the filthy mouth of a disgusting, lying, corrupt, self-interested criminal fugitive who can't even bring himself to pay taxes and isn't satisfied with the mere office of Prime Minister.

Seriously. Go look it up.

You did not understand what I wrote. What I said, was he (Thaksin) is not the invisible hand that most people refer to. I don't believe his propaganda at all and you are probably right that he blames it all on this hand.

There is no elaborate conspiracy theory involved. Who the invisible hand is, is quite clear. And no, I do not have proof I can present here without being banned or arrested for violating certain laws.

Your rant was pointless. I got nothing to look up. You are preaching to the congregation.

However, you got one thing wrong IMO. He quite rightly blames his woes on the IH.

That's a good post also but i have to disagree with your last sentance. The vast majority of Thaksin's woes are self generated.

[tominbkk]

Would anyone care to place a wager (jk) that the inability to follow through on this promise will be blamed on entrenched opposing interests, rather than the lying liars who first floated this lie.

Right, The yellow shirts and Abhisit will be blamed right away...."Dear Red comrades, we would like you all to have 300 Baht a day but Abhisit and his yellow shirts cast a spell on us! therefore they are evil and we are powerless to give you any more money". and 95% of the red shirt followers, sadly, would fall for that hook, line and sinker.

[tominbkk]

Not convinced? When it comes to development projects for the poor, set aside the propaganda. Who has an established track record and the most street cred? The answer is obvious, but you can Google it if necessary. In fact, you'd have to be a brain-dead zombie to believe the rubbish pouring out of the filthy mouth of a disgusting, lying, corrupt, self-interested criminal fugitive who can't even bring himself to pay taxes and isn't satisfied with the mere office of Prime Minister.

haha, why don't you tell us what you really think of thaksin!

[scorecard]

Would anyone care to place a wager (jk) that the inability to follow through on this promise will be blamed on entrenched opposing interests, rather than the lying liars who first floated this lie.

Right, The yellow shirts and Abhisit will be blamed right away...."Dear Red comrades, we would like you all to have 300 Baht a day but Abhisit and his yellow shirts cast a spell on us! therefore they are evil and we are powerless to give you any more money". and 95% of the red shirt followers, sadly, would fall for that hook, line and sinker.

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

Edited July 16, 2011 by scorecard

[Yme]

Who is pulling the strings at the EC and the CC? There's not much new in politicians back-flipping but the EC also appears to be doing more back flips than an Olympic gymnast.

I thought the redshirt movement had already signalled it was going to remain separate from PTP and advocate and lobby for the rights of its members - I guess much the same way as the yellowshirts went from being Abhisit supporters to opponents?

Not professing to be any kind of expert but isn't the ongoing jailing of redshirt mouthpiece Jatuporn going to be an important test of how this government is perceived?

It's hard to see how Jatuporn can suddenly be released when all attempts up to now have had the charges against him described as serious, but also hard to see how the man who has served Thaksin so loyally in leading the redshirts will be allowed to stay in jail.

All this says to me is that one group or the other will soon be back clogging up the streets.

[noahvail]

Would anyone care to place a wager (jk) that the inability to follow through on this promise will be blamed on entrenched opposing interests, rather than the lying liars who first floated this lie.

Right, The yellow shirts and Abhisit will be blamed right away...."Dear Red comrades, we would like you all to have 300 Baht a day but Abhisit and his yellow shirts cast a spell on us! therefore they are evil and we are powerless to give you any more money". and 95% of the red shirt followers, sadly, would fall for that hook, line and sinker.

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" - at least for some.

Good on your son for attempting to raise the vendors' understanding of what went on.

Edited July 16, 2011 by noahvail