Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Another question for Zeek I forgot to ask: Does the AEON ATM flat out reject the CapOne debit card....I mean you can't even get it to accept your PIN? Or does it accept the PIN, you can then enter the amount of money your want, you hit the Spit Out Money button, and then the AEON ATM gives a No Can Do response?

I can go through the whole process at aeon but when its time to give the money it basically says can not do.

That's the exact same situation with my Cap One ATM only card when I try to use it with AEON, in the test I ran a few days ago. The PIN is accepted, and I can access the various menus about withdrawing cash, selecting an amount, etc etc. But when I select an amount to withdraw, the ATM craps out and I get the "contact your bank" error message.

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ianguygil]

The poster two above poses an interesting question...

Re the BKKB New York branch, Longball is correct... It's NOT a retail branch that provides any retail banking services to individual customers... You couldn't open an account there, even if you were in New York.

But the broader question is, can you in any way open a Thai bank account while physically present in the U.S. I don't think so... But, since the OP resides in Los Angeles, there are I believe two Thai banks that do have offices in L.A., I think in the downtown area. Check the yellow pages under banking.

I remember talking to them some years back before I relocated, and it came to nothing. But I can't recall now whether I ever asked them the exact question being posed by the poster above...

Failing that approach, here's my backup suggestion. The Schwab account is great for using in Thailand, since it's bank debit card on the linked checking account has no foreign currency fee and refunds Thai banks' 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees on foreign cards (unless you use an AEON ATM instead that doesn't charge the 150 baht fee in the first place.)

You can use your Schwab ATM card upon arrival for your routine expenses, no problem. And then open a Thai bank account after your arrival.

Then, if you open a BKK Bank account, you can avoid the expenses of international wire transfers by using BKK Bank's New York branch to route the funds via U.S. domestic ACH initiated from online banking from your BofA or Schwab accounts to the BKKB New York branch and then onward to your BKKB Thailand account at a relatively low fee cost and good exchange rate.

Unfortunately, at present, BKKB is the only Thai bank that has a setup that allows Americans to send money to Thailand by starting with a domestic ACH done via online banking out of your U.S. account. The ACH out of your Schwab account would be free/no fee. As best as I recall, BofA charges a $3 or $5 fee to ACH funds out of their accounts.

The BKK Bank web page with info on doing the U.S. domestic ACH and the fees involved is located here:

http://www.bangkokba...from%20USA.aspx

Just to be clear, what enables BKK Bank to provide this transfer service is that their New York branch somehow has a 9-digit ABA routing number that can be linked to via any U.S. account online banking setup, the same as any regular U.S. bank account. So you'd just use the BKKB NY ABA number and the full account number of your Thai account in your U.S. online banking to set up the ACH link.

BTW, to the poster above, if you call and talk with either of the other Thai banks with offices in L.A. and they have any different or better info to offer, please do post it here...

I think they're going to tell you a) you can't open a Thai account with them from the U.S. and b] the only means they have to send funds from the U.S. to Thailand is via traditional wire transfers.... But I'd be happy to be proven wrong...

The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.

In the US (I am a citizen) it is possible to open accounts online because banks can check your ID, your credit record, if you have recently moved etc and can provide valid electronic authentication. We do not have this ability currently, particularly with foreign citizens and residents.

Our New York Branch actually does have deposit accounts (if you go to our office you will see a teller window at the front next to the office entrance door) but we do not offer these to individuals in normal circumstances and there is a big sign informing you that these are NOT FDIC INSURED. As John says, you can transfer funds between your account in the USA with your local bank and your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand totally without the need to open an account with our New York branch.

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Are you speaking as a bank employee or representative?

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I am an EVP in the Bank but I am on this forum as an individual. Often I can answer questions about banking without having to get too involved.

In those cases when I need to actually help customers with their problems I switch to the official Bank channel to ensure confidentiality. In those cases I act as an officer of the Bank and hand people off to others inside the Bank who can help them.

This is not an officially supported Bank presence, so there is no SLA etc. Also, if customers are particularly difficult (one just this week kept sending me messages in which he used profanity and refused to identify himself) then I choose not to get involved.

[Pib]

Heads up for you folks who use USAA Bank Bill Pay (and probably other bank's bill pay also) to receive your ebills from "Capital One and Chase." Apparently CapOne and Chase have very recently stopped ebill service to "external" Bill Pay financial institutions like USAA Bank.. That is, USAA will no longer get ebills from CapOne or Chase nor would other banks/credit unions. This info based on a 20 minute phone call to USAA an hour ago.

Today, I got an alert direct from CapOne that my MasterCard monthly bill was within 10 days of the payment due which is 25 July. I think, What, I didn't receive the ebill at USAA Bill Pay...and I normally receive the ebill the first few days of every month...ebill has been showing up faithfully at USAA Bill Pay for almost two years now...this is the first month it's never showed up and I do have a balance/bill to pay.

And then I thought that the new CapOne Visa card I got about 3 months ago and immediately added it to USAA Bill Pay has never resulted in a ebill being received at USAA....I had to logon the CapOne web site to pay the bills. But since ebills can sometimes take a couple of billing cycles to setup I had been putting off asking USAA about why am I not getting ebills for my CapOne Visa card. So, I logged onto my CapOne credit card account and paid the MasterCard bill today with plans to call USAA to discuss the case of the missing ebills for my Capone MasterCard and Visa cards.

I called USAA and had a good conversation with knowledgeable folks, which also included the USAA contractor service that manages their ebill service. When the dust settled I found out that CapOne and Chase have recently stopped sending ebills to "external financial organizations"--I guess you must log onto your CapOne and Chase accounts to pay their ebills. Maybe CapOne and Chase don't like paying other financial institutions a small fee for ebill payments....who knows.

Anyway, if you use USAA Bill Pay to receive your ebill--and I expect any other bank/credit union Bill Pay--your ebills from CapOne and Chase may stop showing up...you'll need to log onto the CapOne and Chase websites to pay the bills.

This morning I had an email in my inbox regarding CapOne ebill service to external Bill Pay providers. I'm assuming it's from the USAA Bill Pay Customer Center since I had talked to them on the phone last night, but I can't tell for sure who it's from based on the "From" email address...maybe it's from from some central ebill support function regardless of which bank you use for your Bill Pay. Anyway, below is the redacted version to protect the innocent (me).

Note where it says the CapOne ebills will stop 8 Sep, but as I described in my email above the ebills from CapOne to USAA, at least for me, stopped in late June/early July for my CapOne MasterCard I've had for years because my monthly CapOne statement is posted the last few days of each month on the CapOne website and arrives my USAA Bill Pay during the first week of each month....and I usually pay it immediately around the 5-7th of each month. And m CapOne Visa ebill setup of a few months never resulted in an ebill from CapOne. Yea, yea, I could wait closer to the Statement Due date and earn another quarter penny on interest from the money staying in my bank account a little longer, but I just want to get it paid and forgot about after I review the statement, especially with internet issues that can pop up in Thailand. I'm just the type that likes to review bills before paying them...I don't do the autopay thing yet on any bills. I always assumed CapOne didn't transmit ebills to external sources immediately as they wanted the statement to first be available on your CapOne online account for review/payment before they sent it out to external financial organizations with online Bill Pay.

From: Your Online Bill Pay Provider [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 3:03 AM

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Subject: Important Information Regarding Your e-Bill Service for Capital One Credit Card

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXX,

As of September 8, 2013, you will no longer be able to receive e-Bills for your Capital One Credit Card account ending in XXXX. You will continue to receive paper statements from Capital One Credit Card, and you may continue to pay your bill using your online bill payment service.

Please note that any automatic payments based upon the delivery of your Capital One Credit Card e-Bill currently scheduled will be sent as instructed. As of September 8, no additional payments will be automatically scheduled based upon the delivery of this e-Bill.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

If you have any questions about receiving e-Bills, please contact Capital One using the phone number printed on your statement or on the back of your card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Jim and Pib... thanks for watching my back... and helping the math challenged among us.... It is a good reminder though regarding using the VISA website to calculate their rate... as it doesn't directly provide the rate (XX.XX THB per $1) we're looking for... We have to do the inverse calculation, which I failed to do...

So just to be clear on the correct methodology for looking at U.S issued VISA bankcards... we're going to the VISA US exchange rates site,

Once there, in the fill-in form, we're choosing "My Card is in US $" and "My Transaction was in Thai Baht." Choosing the date of the transaction and entering in the card-issuing bank fee %, if any. Getting results of "1 Thai Baht = 0.03XXXX United States Dollar" type. Then using a calculator to get the inverse number by entering the digit "1" and then dividing that by the 0.03XXXX number to get the rate for XX.XX baht per $1.

Ok everyone I used my fidelity visa atm card at bangkok bank and I am not coming up with the exchange rate on the visa us exchange rate site following the above instructions from post 350.

Fidelity website says my atm withdraw was on July 15 for $37.12 total. I withdrew 1k thb + 150 thb fee = 1,150 thb

Visa US says 1 Thai Baht = 0.032265 USD

1 / 0.032265 = 30.993336 < Would this be the VISA USD to THB exchange rate according to the instructions above?

Now when I take the 1,150 THB * 0.032265 = $37.10475 USD < This is .02 US cent less than the $37.12 that was take from my fidelity account. << So does this mean that I was not given the visa exchange rate or that Fidelity is charging a fee?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

would this calculation be correct if I took the total Baht 1,150 / total USD from my account $37.12 = exchange rate 30.980603 ?????

Because $37.12 * 30.980603 = 1,150 THB

Because when I take the 150 THB atm fee / 30.980603 = $4.84 which is exactly what Fidelity refunded back into my account as the atm fee.

Thanks for your help

Zeek, one thing you need to be careful about is how you pick the date you use for the VISA exchange rates website in terms of your transaction date.

I think you don't simply want to go by the date Fidelity posts the charge. Rather, as JimGant has indicated here previously, VISA USA posts their rates on a once per day, 24 hour basis, if I recall correct, starting at midnight U.S. time. Maybe Jim can refresh our memory about what time zone U.S. time.

So, because Thailand is at present 11 hours ahead of U.S. EST, an ATM withdrawal performed in the morning here on the 15 probably should be compared to the VISA USA rate for the 14th. Whereas an afternoon transaction here should be compared to the VISA rate for the same day using the VISA USA rates website.

If I've gone astray on that, I'm sure Jim or Pib will correct me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, I'm not sure where you're trying to go on the Cap One issue...

Re their credit cards, actually, I get two emails from them each month, at least.

The first advising me when my monthly statement is available online for my review.

And then the second as a bill reminder 10 days or so before the payment due date.

I believe, once the statement has posted to my online account, I can pay the bill using Cap One online banking anytime from when the statement arrives up through the payment due date...

I mentioned before about paying from external bank accounts. I should have also noted, if the credit card account holder also has a Cap One checking or MMA account, you can also transfer funds from either of those accounts to pay your Cap One credit card using the same Cap One online banking setup.

[zeekgarcia]

Jim and Pib... thanks for watching my back... and helping the math challenged among us.... It is a good reminder though regarding using the VISA website to calculate their rate... as it doesn't directly provide the rate (XX.XX THB per $1) we're looking for... We have to do the inverse calculation, which I failed to do...

So just to be clear on the correct methodology for looking at U.S issued VISA bankcards... we're going to the VISA US exchange rates site,

Once there, in the fill-in form, we're choosing "My Card is in US $" and "My Transaction was in Thai Baht." Choosing the date of the transaction and entering in the card-issuing bank fee %, if any. Getting results of "1 Thai Baht = 0.03XXXX United States Dollar" type. Then using a calculator to get the inverse number by entering the digit "1" and then dividing that by the 0.03XXXX number to get the rate for XX.XX baht per $1.

Ok everyone I used my fidelity visa atm card at bangkok bank and I am not coming up with the exchange rate on the visa us exchange rate site following the above instructions from post 350.

Fidelity website says my atm withdraw was on July 15 for $37.12 total. I withdrew 1k thb + 150 thb fee = 1,150 thb

Visa US says 1 Thai Baht = 0.032265 USD

1 / 0.032265 = 30.993336 < Would this be the VISA USD to THB exchange rate according to the instructions above?

Now when I take the 1,150 THB * 0.032265 = $37.10475 USD < This is .02 US cent less than the $37.12 that was take from my fidelity account. << So does this mean that I was not given the visa exchange rate or that Fidelity is charging a fee?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

would this calculation be correct if I took the total Baht 1,150 / total USD from my account $37.12 = exchange rate 30.980603 ?????

Because $37.12 * 30.980603 = 1,150 THB

Because when I take the 150 THB atm fee / 30.980603 = $4.84 which is exactly what Fidelity refunded back into my account as the atm fee.

Thanks for your help

Zeek, one thing you need to be careful about is how you pick the date you use for the VISA exchange rates website in terms of your transaction date.

I think you don't simply want to go by the date Fidelity posts the charge. Rather, as JimGant has indicated here previously, VISA USA posts their rates on a once per day, 24 hour basis, if I recall correct, starting at midnight U.S. time. Maybe Jim can refresh our memory about what time zone U.S. time.

So, because Thailand is at present 11 hours ahead of U.S. EST, an ATM withdrawal performed in the morning here on the 15 probably should be compared to the VISA USA rate for the 14th. Whereas an afternoon transaction here should be compared to the VISA rate for the same day using the VISA USA rates website.

If I've gone astray on that, I'm sure Jim or Pib will correct me.

The atm withdraw per bangkok bank receipt was July 12 at 20:50 hours.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So I'd suggest re-figuring your calculation using the VISA USA website rate for July 12...and see what you get.

But either way, it looks like you're getting a good rate with the Fidelity VISA card, as expected.

BTW, thanks for raising the issue that I wasnt clear in my prior post #350, re the instructions for calculating exchange rate comparisons, about how to select the DATE chosen on the VISA or MC exchange rate websites.

As the VISA site notes:

"Rates apply to the date the transaction was processed by Visa; this may differ from the actual date of the transaction"

Since ATM withdrawals are processed pretty much in real time, you'd need to adjust your date reference for the corresponding U.S time and date. And while VISA's rates operate on the midnight to midnight cycle, I believe Jim has posted previously that MC operates on a noon to noon U.S. time cycle.

So take your local Thai time of the withdrawal, then translate that into U.S. time, and choose the correct date based on where that date/time falls on the VISA or MC date calendars.

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[zeekgarcia]

I went to http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/consumer_ex_rates_us.jsp but it is not letting me change the date requested from today's date so is there a historical visa exchange rates page somewhere?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Try using a different browser, and/or make sure you have Adobe Flash enabled on your device.

When I go to that webpage and click the "Date Requested" text box with my mouse, it brings up a month calendar pop-up that allows you to select any prior date and even a prior month. It doesn't look like you can manually type in a different date.

[zeekgarcia]

Try using a different browser, and/or make sure you have Adobe Flash enabled on your device.

When I go to that webpage and click the "Date Requested" text box with my mouse, it brings up a month calendar pop-up that allows you to select any prior date and even a prior month. It doesn't look like you can manually type in a different date.

I was using google chrome but it would not work so I tried IE and it worked thanks

[Pib]

Pib, I'm not sure where you're trying to go on the Cap One issue...

Re their credit cards, actually, I get two emails from them each month, at least.

The first advising me when my monthly statement is available online for my review.

And then the second as a bill reminder 10 days or so before the payment due date.

I believe, once the statement has posted to my online account, I can pay the bill using Cap One online banking anytime from when the statement arrives up through the payment due date...

I mentioned before about paying from external bank accounts. I should have also noted, if the credit card account holder also has a Cap One checking or MMA account, you can also transfer funds from either of those accounts to pay your Cap One credit card using the same Cap One online banking setup.

Yea, I have all those CapOne alerts setup also. I just saying if you like having all/as many as possible ebills from various companies (like Capital One credit card bills) sent to your bank's Bill Pay for review, payment, and filing it's sure nice to just have to log onto one website (i.e., your bank) vs having to log onto multiple websites/accounts...like your CapOne account, other credit cards accounts like BoA, AmEX, just whoever you have accounts with that do ebills. And as you know, in most western countries like the U.S. many, many companies/utilities do ebills.

And for those folks who like to have the accounting of the various bills rec'd and paid all filed together and available for review, most bank Bill Pays do that for you vs having to download data from various accounts into some software package like Quicken to see where all your money is going over a year. Just nice to be able to receive ebills at one central location--you bank's Bill Pay.

But for CapOne and apparently Chase, you will now need to go to their websites to review/pay their ebill. Heck, usually the only time I went to the CapOne web site was when I wanted some "details" on my cash back rewards....like to reconfirm that Big C credit card buy still earned me 2% cash back ....did I earn 2% or 1% at this store I bought something from for the first time, or maybe just to update my profile or alerts.. It was not uncommon for me not to log onto my CapOne account for months and months.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks Pib... Now I'm following your thinking...

For me, I've never gotten into the centralized e-billing thing, though a single unrelated bank account.

I tried doing that kind of thing in past times, and encountered weird stuff like sometimes one of my payees would get an electronic payment immediately, and other times, without really disclosing it clearly to me, my bank would POSTAL mail a check to my payee and take up to a week to do so.

Obviously, that kind of performance is dependant on the bank or CU you're using to handle your e-billing. In my case, I know I ran into those kind of oddities a number of times with different banks, and ended up finally giving up, not wanting to worry about late payments, and deciding instead to simply pay my bills direct thru the website of the payee.

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Try using a different browser, and/or make sure you have Adobe Flash enabled on your device.

When I go to that webpage and click the "Date Requested" text box with my mouse, it brings up a month calendar pop-up that allows you to select any prior date and even a prior month. It doesn't look like you can manually type in a different date.

I was using google chrome but it would not work so I tried IE and it worked thanks

No, you can't type in the date...a pop-up calendar will appear like John said and then you select/click the date from that pop-up calendar that then populates the date field.

You might also want to use below address to the Visa exchange rate calculator...it's the exact same calculator as Visa other web address but just seems to be significantly more response/less bogged down with other icons/images that can slow down a webpage. I know it's significantly faster on my computer running Win 7 and IE10.

http://corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_services/consumer_ex_rates.jsp

Edited July 16, 2013 by Pib

[zeekgarcia]

Jim and Pib... thanks for watching my back... and helping the math challenged among us.... It is a good reminder though regarding using the VISA website to calculate their rate... as it doesn't directly provide the rate (XX.XX THB per $1) we're looking for... We have to do the inverse calculation, which I failed to do...

So just to be clear on the correct methodology for looking at U.S issued VISA bankcards... we're going to the VISA US exchange rates site,

Once there, in the fill-in form, we're choosing "My Card is in US $" and "My Transaction was in Thai Baht." Choosing the date of the transaction and entering in the card-issuing bank fee %, if any. Getting results of "1 Thai Baht = 0.03XXXX United States Dollar" type. Then using a calculator to get the inverse number by entering the digit "1" and then dividing that by the 0.03XXXX number to get the rate for XX.XX baht per $1.

Ok everyone I used my fidelity visa atm card at bangkok bank and I am not coming up with the exchange rate on the visa us exchange rate site following the above instructions from post 350.

Fidelity website says my atm withdraw was on July 15 for $37.12 total. I withdrew 1k thb + 150 thb fee = 1,150 thb

Visa US says 1 Thai Baht = 0.032265 USD

1 / 0.032265 = 30.993336 < Would this be the VISA USD to THB exchange rate according to the instructions above?

Now when I take the 1,150 THB * 0.032265 = $37.10475 USD < This is .02 US cent less than the $37.12 that was take from my fidelity account. << So does this mean that I was not given the visa exchange rate or that Fidelity is charging a fee?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

would this calculation be correct if I took the total Baht 1,150 / total USD from my account $37.12 = exchange rate 30.980603 ?????

Because $37.12 * 30.980603 = 1,150 THB

Because when I take the 150 THB atm fee / 30.980603 = $4.84 which is exactly what Fidelity refunded back into my account as the atm fee.

Thanks for your help

Ok I just used internet explorer to looked up the exchange rate for July 12 and US visa page says 1 THB = 0.032276 USD

1 / 0.032276 = 30.982773 visa exchange rate = 30.98

To find out what exchange rate you are receiving simply take the total Baht and divide it by the total USD to equal the exchange rate.

THB 1,150 / total USD from your US bank account $37.12 = 30.980603 exchange rate = 30.98

Then check the visa website and compare the exchange rates.

To find out if you are getting the visa exchange rate look up the visa exchange rate http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/consumer_ex_rates_us.jsp (Ex 1 THB = 0.032276)

Then take your total baht expense and * it by the visa exchange rate.

1,150 THB * .032276 = $37.1174 = $37.12 < this is what was taken from my US account.

If the USD amount taken from your US bank account is more than your result (Ex. $37.12) then you are either not getting the visa exchange rate or there are hidden fees in the amount.

If the USD amount is less than your result (Ex. $37.12) then you are getting a better exchange rate than the visa rate.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, this brings up a related topic we've never really talked about here (but probably should have), and this is the varying online bill pay capacities of the various Thai banks.

In my case, I've had experience with three at different times: BKK Bank, Siam Commercial and Standard Chartered.

Obviously, one's experience with this will depend in part on just which entities you're trying to pay online through your Thai online banking.

For me, among the three, the BKK Bank online bill paying has been the best experience. Clear and pretty easy to use. And most importantly, they seem to be set up to handle online bill pay for all of the various Thai utilities, mobilie carriers, Internet providers, etc etc that I need/want to pay each month.

The Siam Commercial Bank online billpay seems more limited although decently easy to use. But the last time I checked, SCB seemed to not have a lot of common payees available.

And then, the Standard Chartered billpay seems to be the most limited of the 3 with a lot of big payees unavailable, and has some odd limitations that the others don't have, such as requiring TOT bills to be paid at least a week ahead of their due date or their system won't allow the payment to be made. They do, however, have mandatory two-factor authentication for their bill pay, with you having to receive a confirm an SMS code every time you want to pay a bill.

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Zeek, so, if I'm following your latest post correctly, you seem to have calculated that your Fidelity VISA card ATM withdrawal on July 12 produced pretty much exactly what the VISA network rate for that day was.

In other words, no foreign currency fee deducted -- despite Fidelity's website language to the contrary. Which is what others here had advised you to expect.

[Pib]

Since ATM withdrawals are processed pretty much in real time, you'd need to adjust your date reference for the corresponding U.S time and date. And while VISA's rates operate on the midnight to midnight cycle, I believe Jim has posted previously that MC operates on a noon to noon U.S. time cycle.

Yes, the Visa exchange rates change at midnight U.S. Eastern Time. Since the U.S. is on daylight savings time right now that would equate to 11am Thailand time; when the U.S. goes off daylight saving time then it's high noon in Thailand.

Usually the Visa exchange web site will be reflecting the new date very, very, very shortly after 11am Thailand time, but I've noticed a few times it might be around 11:30am Thailand time before it starts showing the rates for the new day referenced to U.S. Eastern time. Although the exchange rate web site may be a little tardy sometimes in reflecting the current day exchange rate, I fully expect the exchange rates for the new day indeed go into effect immediately at midnight U.S. Eastern Time.

But one thing for sure, it seems the Visa exchange rate page is much more current than the MasterCard exchange rate page which seems to be a day or so behind all the time. Or should I say just not reflecting the current day exchange rate...you usually have to wait until tomorrow to see the rate for yesterday....I just checked the MC exchange rate page and the latest date available is 15 Jul/yesterday. But if it's on a noon-to-noon cycle, say on U.S. Eastern time, then that would explain why its still reflecting 15 Jul and that 15 Jul rate would apply be in affect right now for about 9 more hours in Thailand where it's 16 Jul right now--if I did the time math right in my head...time zones can sure mess with a person's brain.

Now, for Visa cards issued by European banks I'm not sure what time the rates change...maybe it's U.S. Eastern Time, maybe GMT, I don't know. But hey, this thread is Banking for Americans and I expect only a few may have Visa cards issued by European banks.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Pib

[zeekgarcia]

For me, among the three, the BKK Bank online bill paying has been the best experience. Clear and pretty easy to use. And most importantly, they seem to be set up to handle online bill pay for all of the various Thai utilities, mobilie carriers, Internet providers, etc etc that I need/want to pay each month.

Are you saying that in BB online you can find your Thai utilities providers listed already in the list of companies you can pay online and then pay your bill ike for electric and water?

Or did you get forms from BB and take them to your Thai utilities to get it setup where your bill amount would be automatically deducted each month?

Has anyone ever lived at one place and had your Utilities automatically deducted each month from your Thai bank account and then moved to new place, how did you get the auto payments for your old place stopped?

How long did that take and were there any auto deductions taken from your Thai bank that was not suppose to be because you already moved from the old place?

Edited July 16, 2013 by zeekgarcia

[zeekgarcia]

Zeek, so, if I'm following your latest post correctly, you seem to have calculated that your Fidelity VISA card ATM withdrawal on July 12 produced pretty much exactly what the VISA network rate for that day was.

In other words, no foreign currency fee deducted -- despite Fidelity's website language to the contrary. Which is what others here had advised you to expect.

Yes you are right!

One interesting thing when I called the card service company that services the atm cards for Fidelity to tell them that I would be using the card in Thailand was the card service company csr said that if I use the visa atm card to make a purchase then I would be charged the 1% visa fee.

So this may bring up an interesting point that if you are talking to a bank csr about a atm card or debit card or credit card maybe ask if the bank directly services the card or do they use a service company and then call the service company and see what they you also about the card. To see if things add up.

Edited July 16, 2013 by zeekgarcia

[Pib]

Are you saying that in BB online you can find your Thai utilities providers listed already in the list of companies you can pay online and then pay your bill ike for electric and water?

Yes, BB ibanking has a list of companies/utilities you can pay electronically...no need to visit your friendly 7-11. I pay my electric bill (MEA), TrueOnline internet, TrueVisions cable TV, two DTAC accounts, two TOT phone accounts, and probably some other monthly bills I'm not thinking of at this moment in time via BB ibanking.

But I can't pay my Bangkok water bill via BB ibanking nor any other Thai bank I've heard of. Guess the water company don't want to get involved with a bank or multiple banks for online payment. That is the only utility bill/only reoccurring bill I must visit my friendly 7-11 to pay.

[Pib]

Zeek, so, if I'm following your latest post correctly, you seem to have calculated that your Fidelity VISA card ATM withdrawal on July 12 produced pretty much exactly what the VISA network rate for that day was.

In other words, no foreign currency fee deducted -- despite Fidelity's website language to the contrary. Which is what others here had advised you to expect.

Yes you are right!

One interesting thing when I called the card service company that services the atm cards for Fidelity to tell them that I would be using the card in Thailand was the card service company csr said that if I use the visa atm card to make a purchase then I would be charged the 1% visa fee.

So this may bring up an interesting point that if you are talking to a bank csr about a atm card or debit card or credit card maybe ask if the bank directly services the card or do they use a service company and then call the service company and see what they you also about the card. To see if things add up.

Some cards may have different foreign transactions fees depending whether it's a cash/ATM transaction or a Point of Sale (POS) transaction. Ex: the card could charge you a 0% fee for a foreign ATM withdrawal but a 1% fee for a foreign POS transaction.

Many different card issuing banks; many different fees. All a person can do is read the fee disclosures very closely and make calls to confirms what the fees are "for their card/account."

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Are you saying that in BB online you can find your Thai utilities providers listed already in the list of companies you can pay online and then pay your bill ike for electric and water?

Yes, BB ibanking has a list of companies/utilities you can pay electronically...no need to visit your friendly 7-11. I pay my electric bill (MEA), TrueOnline internet, TrueVisions cable TV, two DTAC accounts, two TOT phone accounts, and probably some other monthly bills I'm not thinking of at this moment in time via BB ibanking.

But I can't pay my Bangkok water bill via BB ibanking nor any other Thai bank I've heard of. Guess the water company don't want to get involved with a bank or multiple banks for online payment. That is the only utility bill/only reoccurring bill I must visit my friendly 7-11 to pay.

Zeek, re your question, there are two different approaches available on this:

1. is to go into online banking under payments, then search for and find the entity you want to pay on a recurring basis, and then add them and your account details into a saved payee profile. Then in the future, you just choose that payee and add the invoice number you've received in your bill that month from your payee, and manually order the payment.

2. some of the big, common payees also have automatic debit you can set up with them through various of the Thai banks. In that scenario (and I haven't done this myself), I believe you either fill out paperwork and/or info online to create a monthly automatic debit from your Thai bank account by the billing entity -- your internet provider, phone company, cable TV, etc etc.. In this case, once you've set that up, you don't have to do anything. Your payee will automatically bill your Thai bank account each month and the bank will allow them to debit your account. But you need to make sure, you have sufficient funds in your account at the time to cover the direct debits.

For me, I don't like the idea of giving any Thai company (or any other company for that matter) the right to auto debit my bank account. Those kinds of things can get messy if, for example, you have an unresolved billing dispute or some other disagreement with your payee... I prefer to keep the payment timing and decisions in my own control.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

WANT TO GIVE EVERYONE A HEAD'S UP ALERT HERE!!!!

As someone pointed out the other day, this thread has now reached almost 20 pages in length as I write this, and has been ongoing for almost exactly two years now since the first post. Needless to say, that's a lot of posts and pages under the bridge.

So in an effort to make and keep things a bit more manageable, I've created a brand new thread here in the banking forum titled:

Best No Fee & Low-Fee Bank Cards for Americans 2013-

My thinking is, the new thread can be a place for the discussion of the various U.S. bank cards and credit cards that have been a big part of our discussions here. And we can get a fresh start on that subject, circa 2013. So I'd encourage everyone who's been participating here to subscribe to that topic/thread and to continue to contribute on the best bank card deals there.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking that this thread here can continue as the place for general banking discussions for Americans on other banking subjects than no and low-fee bank cards, whether that be AEON ATMs, dynamic currency conversion, Thai 150/180 baht ATM withdrawal fees, online banking and bill pays, etc etc...

Given that we had reached 20 pages of posts here, I didn't want our fellow members to have to wade through all of them just to find a current no-fee bank cards list. So it seemed a good time to branch out and have a bit of a fresh start in a more manageable way.

And BTW, big thanks to everyone here who's contributed their time and knowledge over the past couple years...and hopefully will continue to do so.

[Thighlander]

I've seen State Farm mentioned here a few times. I used them to insure my condo for several years. I got an online quote that was very reasonable. It was all to get me in, to try to sell me all of their financial services. I ran the agents name through our assessor's database, and he had made some life-changing, idiotic real estate investments. I had nothing but problems with their billing system, and they were horrible about returning emails. Just got another bill from them last week, thing is, I don't own the place anymore, and I informed them of that at least twice. Your agent may vary, But, I am really unhappy with SF, and I never even made a claim.

[Pib]

I've seen State Farm mentioned here a few times. I used them to insure my condo for several years. I got an online quote that was very reasonable. It was all to get me in, to try to sell me all of their financial services. I ran the agents name through our assessor's database, and he had made some life-changing, idiotic real estate investments. I had nothing but problems with their billing system, and they were horrible about returning emails. Just got another bill from them last week, thing is, I don't own the place anymore, and I informed them of that at least twice. Your agent may vary, But, I am really unhappy with SF, and I never even made a claim.

But their insurance and banking units are separate business units. From looking at their web site I guess their three main business units are Insurance, Mutual Funds, and Banking. Level of service and types of IT systems used could be night and day different. I had some auto insurance with them decades ago, good coverage, one or two small claims paid no problem, no billing problems, but after being with them for about 5 years their auto premiums for good drivers didn't seem to be competitive any more so I switched. But as mentioned that was decades ago and I never switched back to them simply because other auto insurance companies like GIECO always had significantly lower premiums for equal coverage. However, maybe things have changed for their auto insurance.

Anyway, I've been with St Farm Bank going on two years now, no problems, and use their no foreign transaction fee Visa debit card 3-4 times per month...and always checking my online account. No problems with either. They will rebate up to $10/month in ATMs fees unless you have a monthly direct deposit going to them, then they will reimburse any amount...but I expect there is an unpublished limited to their ATM rebate generosity. You must call them to get reimbursed for any "international" ATM withdrawals....once again, like USAA, I figure that is one of those little obstacles some banks seem to do to help minimize the reimbursement of foreign ATM fees...maybe I'm wrong...maybe I'm not. However, I never had to call for reimbursement since I only use AEON ATMs and have easy access to several AEON ATMs...plus I want to avoid possibly upseting the Reimbursement Golden Goose by hitting the goose with frequent Bt150 fee reimbursement requests...the goose may determine he is spending too much money on me.

Below is a cut and paste/quote taken from their ATM pricing/fee reimbursement policy which can be viewed in full at this Link.

ATM

State Farm Bank® will not charge You for the use of ATMs not owned by the Bank (considered foreign ATMs). Further, the Bank will rebate a foreign ATM surcharge imposed by the ATM owner in any amount assessed against a State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Savings account provided that there is a direct deposit via an Automated Clearing House (ACH) credit into that account during the statement cycle of the foreign ATM transaction. If there has been no direct deposit via an ACH credit into the State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Savings account during the statement cycle, the Bank will rebate up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle. State Farm Bank Savings and Health Savings accounts will be rebated up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle.

For International ATM Fees incurred traveling outside of the U.S., please call Us at 1-877-734-2265 to have your rebate applied to your account. For those customers who receive up to $10 per statement cycle, the amount of the International ATM Fee Rebate will be deducted from your $10 benefit.

When You use an ATM not owned by Us, You may be charged a fee by the ATM operator and You may be charged a fee for a balance inquiry even if You do not complete a fund transfer.

The Bank will impose a fee to non–State Farm Bank issued cards for withdrawing cash from a State Farm Bank ATM.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re State Farm, I'd agree, their insurance operation doesn't have a very good reputation in the U.S.

Howevever, as far as their banking operation is concerned, I haven't seen many/any complaints here from the folks who hold State Farm Bank accounts.

[Thighlander]

John, I found my receipt from the dentist. It states 3.5% in small print. Also says it is not endorsed by Visa/MC. Very happy with the dental work, though. She may have charged me a premium if I had paid in THB, and says it was indeed a two percent fee for over 20K. Last year I was at a hotel in KK, and it was 240 per night. Pay with credit and it is 280. The rules are evolving, that's for sure, mostly in favor of the consumer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

State Farm Bank® will not charge You for the use of ATMs not owned by the Bank (considered foreign ATMs).

Just wanted to point out an important language issue...one that's illustrated in the excerpt Pib posted above from State Farm about their ATM reimbursements...

I've noticed over time, a lot of financial institutions in the U.S. seem to use the term "foreign ATM", and what they often mean is, ATMs that don't belong to that bank/CU or are not part of their ATM network.

They don't necessarily mean "foreign" as in, ATMs in a country outside the U.S., although they may also mean that... In other settings, I've seen banks and CUs use the term, "non-network" or "non-BANK NAME ATM."

So I guess my point is, if you're reading the account terms for some bank's ATM fee reimbursement policy, and you see the term "foreign ATM," make sure it's really referring to ATMs located outside the U.S. -- not just ATMs that don't belong to that particular institution.

I always feel reassured when I see the bank or CU talking about reimbursing ATM fees "worldwide" or "outside the U.S." But other times, "foreign" ends up meaning both outside their network and outside the U.S.

Edited July 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lopburi3]

But I can't pay my Bangkok water bill via BB ibanking nor any other Thai bank I've heard of. Guess the water company don't want to get involved with a bank or multiple banks for online payment. That is the only utility bill/only reoccurring bill I must visit my friendly 7-11 to pay.

Water bill can be paid by direct debit from bank as have been doing so for decades (using Bangkok Bank) but expect still needs to be set up by bank/water department as all used to be done.

[Pib]

But I can't pay my Bangkok water bill via BB ibanking nor any other Thai bank I've heard of. Guess the water company don't want to get involved with a bank or multiple banks for online payment. That is the only utility bill/only reoccurring bill I must visit my friendly 7-11 to pay.

Water bill can be paid by direct debit from bank as have been doing so for decades (using Bangkok Bank) but expect still needs to be set up by bank/water department as all used to be done.

Correct...understood...but me no likey direct debit by a Thai company...much prefer I get to review the bill first and then pay (or not pay if something big time wrong with the bill). With direct debit although you supposedly do have some time before the debit automatically kicks in (assuming you get to see the bill before the automatic debit occurs), but if you wanted to stop that month's direct debit occurring on day X you would need to go running to your bank as far as I know to stop it. Yes, I prefer to review the bill first and then pay on my own schedule. But if I couldn't easily review the bill/get the bill in the mail (like I'm out of Thailand for months) but wanted to keep the electricity, water, telephone service coming to my house/condo while I'm gone, I would definitely setup direct debit.