Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[JimGant]

Way too much hassle. ATM machines burping back my ATM card (I guess that beats eating it), and CDM machines burping back my baht notes -- all this at a way too public mall setting. Then, getting a call from the fraud police (if you hadn't taken the call, would your card have been frozen?). No thanks.

I love playing the numbers game -- looking for any advantage -- but the fluctuations in FX probably makes this a zero sum game over the long haul -- especially with (until recently) the dollar trending lower, where ACHing a chunk of money to last you several months probably evens out with multi ATM pulls with your fee free Visa card over this period.

Even now, it's hit or miss during this crazy FX seesaw. You got 31.84 the other day with your fee free Visa card, and I got 31.84 when I ACHed $10,000 (the Aug 22 0830 TT rate was 31.93, so the effective rate I got, after the $10/500baht fees was 31.84).

Anyway, I'll stick to my moo baan's Bangkok Bank ATM machine, where any problems can be readily addressed. And where most of that money will be taken back to the locking drawer -- and not walking around downtown -- or being jammed into a CDM machine. No, a couple of keystrokes to do an ACH transfer is about all the "hassle" I want.

I guess if I needed money fast, my Schwab card is available. But I can't imagine a scenario where any of our Bangkok Bank accounts would ever get that low, requiring Charles to the rescue.

Oh, speaking of timeliness -- I went online to USAA for the transfer at 1:00AM, 21 August, Thai time (1:00PM 20 Aug USAA time). ACH transfers are batch, and I wasn't sure when the last stagecoach left for New York. But, obviously it left after 1:00PM, as the money crossed the pond on 21 Aug, and was waiting at the my bank's door when it opened at 8:30AM, 22 Aug, in Thailand. Fast enough for my needs.

But, to each his own. I just don't like hassles -- and will "pay" to avoid them (but, as said, I'm not sure I'm losing any satang over the long haul).

[Pib]

Jim

Can I use your Schwab card if you are not going to use it?

Actually I missed their call by a couple of hours....got an email with the audio voicemail attached...then I called them back.

Yeap with a low cost ACH/wire sending method and sending big chunks of money in a scheduled way I'm sure there be little difference in the final tally of money in hand. I too never let my Thai bank account get so low that an ACH wire transfer couldn't come to the rescue in plenty of time. Plus I've got my other no foreign transaction fee debit card to fall back on if needed. Good to have multiple options.

Please get that Schwab card mailed to me on Monday. Please use EMS.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[JimGant]

Can I use your Schwab card if you are not going to use it?

Naaa. That's actually my 'off the books' mad money card. The wife has the Be1st ATM card, and makes all the runs for cash, as our budget calls for. Schwab, however, allows me to live in style -- all the while with the wife thinking my budget is that of a monk, based on my Be1st demands.

Thank you, Charles.

[Actually, I've only used the Schwab card twice in two years -- and don't even carry it regularly, as it is a debit card, with all the perils associated with having it lost/stolen. Most of my 'mad money' urges are satisfied with a US cash back credit card, which I definitely endorse (now using CapOne Quicksilver, at your suggestion). ACH can't approach those benefits.]

[4evermaat]

I've "blinded all the way down" on having funds in thailand on a couple of occasions. I guess the younger crowd can still do that to a certain extent. But I see no problem with the wire transfer method or ACH method if transferring larger sums. But the ATM is still the single quickest method to get funds. AEON just makes it a cheaper option for lower amounts. Even max ATM amounts (BkB has 25k withdraw limit, other banks 20k limit for foreign debit cards), 150/180 baht instant withdraw fee on the max amount make it 0.6%/0.72% fee (25k) or 0.75%/0.9% (20k) fee minimum, on top of any fees that your bank charges.

It is when you make smaller withdraws by atm where the fees can make a larger impact.

-----

The error of having the AEON atm spit the card back with no notification is weird. Usually I see a "transaction cancelled, contact your bank" error. But the ones in Chumphon do have the 20k baht withdraw limit posted on the screen when you attempt to do custom amount.

This is a bit off topic but very important.

How safe are banks? insured or not?

If there is a run, knock on wood, how many banks in the USA and Thailand will still be solvent?

Would thai banks fair the same worse or better than in the states?

I know very hard to say.

If you think it is a stupid question research 'fractional reserve banking'

I am still trying to figure out the best thing to do with my thai cash, required for my kind of visa.

I, too, am not great at the doomsday predictions except to say that if the THB, USD, etc becomes worthless, there is a lot more to worry about than just the bank failing; the entire infrastructure of the economy would collapse. I do agree with Fletch that a multi-flag planting approach of having some cash (or assets) in more than one country is an overall safer hedge.

In such a consumer driven society like USA or thailand (on a smaller scale), the gov'ts will do everything it takes to protect the usage of the notes as often as it can. Besides, what good is having fiat money if you don't eventually spend it somewhere anyway?

Edited August 25, 2013 by 4evermaat

[JSixpack]

I am still trying to figure out the best thing to do with my thai cash, required for my kind of visa.

Farang *kit mak. Take that measly B800,000 or less to the nearest bank and put into a 12-month rollover fixed deposit account.

Done!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On the above suggestion, three added comments:

1. Regarding fixed deposit accounts for purposes of satisfying the Immigration financial requirement, just make sure the Immigration office that you go to accepts those kinds of accounts. Most do, including Bangkok, but I believe there have been a few member reports of having problems with them at some outlying offices.

2. If your local Immigration office will accept fixed deposit accounts (which they should), then I don't believe it matters for Immigration purposes whether the term is 12 months or 24 or 36, etc. Of course, the longer term fixed deposit accounts are generally going to have somewhat higher interest rates the longer the term.

3. And some wisdom learned from a recent thread here on Immigration, the bank branches on the lower level of the Chaeng Wattana Govt. Complex in Bangkok will write and issue bank balance letters for Immigration purposes even for accounts held at other branches of the same bank. Although, if one was going to open a fixed deposit account for immigration purposes in Bangkok, under those circumstances, why not open it at the Chaeng Wattana location anyway.

Edited August 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

On the above suggestion, three added comments:

1. Regarding fixed deposit accounts for purposes of satisfying the Immigration financial requirement, just make sure the Immigration office that you go to accepts those kinds of accounts. Most do, including Bangkok, but I believe there have been a few member reports of having problems with them at some outlying offices.

2. If your local Immigration office will accept fixed deposit accounts (which they should), then I don't believe it matters for Immigration purposes whether the term is 12 months or 24 or 36, etc. Of course, the longer term fixed deposit accounts are generally going to have somewhat higher interest rates the longer the term.

3. And some wisdom learned from a recent thread here on Immigration, the bank branches on the lower level of the Chaeng Wattana Govt. Complex in Bangkok will write and issue bank balance letters for Immigration purposes even for accounts held at other branches of the same bank. Although, if one was going to open a fixed deposit account for immigration purposes in Bangkok, under those circumstances, why not open it at the Chaeng Wattana location anyway.

It don't matter with Chaeng Wattana as I've used 11, 5, and 7 month fixed accounts so far for my retirement extensions of stay....I pick whatever fixed account period is paying the highest interest rate---their promotions are always changing. And I guess I could say I've also used 3 month fixed fixed accounts as I don't always "immediately" pick a new fixed account maturity period when the account period matures.

When your fixed account matures it will automatically roll over into a 3 month fixed account (same account number) until you come in and pick a new fixed period, which gets you a new account number. The important thing is the amount of money required to qualify for the extension of stay has been seasoned for the required 2 or 3 months.

My current 7 month fixed account matures in early Sep, which also happens to be when I will go into extend my retirement extension of stay about three weeks before my current extension expires. After I get my extension stay approved I will walk back down stairs to the Bangkok Bank branch and roll my matured fixed account into the best promotion period they have at the time. The reason I say "walk back down" is because I would have been at the branch about an hour early to get my bank letter which costs Bt100 and about 5-10 minutes to get...the letter that says I have at least Bt800K in the bank...I get that letter before I go up to immigration to apply for the extension renewal.

I see Bangkok Bank has 3 fixed account promotions through 16 Sep: a 4 month 2.625%, a 10 month 2.875%, and a 15 month 3.25%. The 12 month fixed account is only paying 2.375%, but in the past when it was one of the "promotions" it was paying more. It all depends on the promotion in effect. And this time I won't rollover the entire amount in one lump sum, but instead in several separate deposits which means if I have to tap into the money I will only lose some interest on the deposit I tap into and not entire amount of all deposits. I'll probably pick their 15 month promotion this time.

[Pib]

I got a call from Visa Fraud Prevention Services this afternoon regarding my three ATM transactions....that is, the one transaction that initially rejected followed by the two what processed OK. They just wanted to confirm it was indeed me that did the transactions....and they knew one had rejected and the two other processed OK...the exact amounts, etc. I told them my story about the probable telecommunications glitch on the first try and how the next two processed OK. They said they had approx. 570 flags in their system which can trigger a possible fraud alert. Anyway, they said my card was still good to go/good to use...have a nice day. I'll try the card again in a few days just to make sure the card is still good to go. But nice to see the Visa folks are looking out for me. The last time I got a possible fraudulent transaction call was around 10 years ago from Bank of America on my BoA credit card regarding a transaction made in Spain...someone was trying to buy some books online using my credit card number...I told them, Nope, that definitely wasn't me. They cancelled my card and got a new one to me within about a week.

Above I mentioned I would try another withdrawal in a few days...we'll I did today using the same AEON ATM using my Schwab card. No problems encountered....been 8 hours since the transaction and so far no call from the Fraud Police as a JimGant referred to them...the call I talked about above came within an hour or so of the transaction that apparently had the transaction glitch somewhere between here and Schwab Bank in the U.S. Knock on wood...hopefully it was just a telecommunications glitch between two points a half-a-world apart.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

fyi...

Female Bank Employee Arrested After Stealing Over 1 Million THB From Her Bank

Prachaup Khiri Khan Police were able to arrest a female bank employee who had stolen stolen money in Thai and foreign currencies worth of over 1 Million THB.

PRACHUAP KHIRI KHAN – August 29, 2013; Police officers of Prachuap Khiri Khan Police station took Mrs. Thira Saengbanyang, age 24 and Mr. Amnat Saengbanyang, aged 36 out to a Bangkok Bank branch in Hua Hin for a planned re-enactment after they were arrested for stealing money from the mentioned bank. Only 589,000 THB was retrieved from the 1 Million THB that was originally stolen. It was suspected that the couple had already used the missing money.

The couple were known to have robbed the bank in the early hours of August 12, they had stolen money in both Thai and Foreign currencies estimated at about 1 Million THB. Police weren’t able to find any traces of forced openings, which made it likely to be an inside job. As soon as the suspects were identified, an arrest warrant was issued, which eventually lead to the couple’s arrest.

The couple will now be further questioned and will be charged for theft and robbery.

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2013/08/29/female-bank-employee-arrested-after-stealing-over-1-million-thb-from-her-bank/

Edited August 31, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[4evermaat]

^^ Thanks.

Not sure if thaivisa has created a separate news thread for this. So I will ask here: Were any specific customer accounts affected directly? Or was it just out of some vault that stores funds for general bank use (e.g. old bills, change ordered for customers, etc.

edit: Although the news is shocking, the article is very bland with virtually no details of the crime.

edit2: Maybe TV can wait until a followup article with more details is ready before making a news thread. Can head off *some* of the inevitable trolling that will occur.

Edited September 1, 2013 by 4evermaat

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I doubt any further details will be forthcoming in any news reports on this... They rarely are....even in far more serious and high dollar thefts than this. It's something the banks, presumably, aren't anxious to advertise.

Since this appears to have been a physical theft of cash from the bank rather than an electronic theft from accounts, perhaps the missing funds didn't come from any individuals' accounts. But that's just speculation. No way to know for sure.

It's just the latest in a series of Thailand bank thefts where the perpetrator, either by direct or electronic means, has been bank staff.

BTW, it's a bit odd that this theft out of the Hua Hin area gets reported by the Pattaya Daily News, but I don't find any local media reports, at least online, out of the Hua Hin area.

Edited September 1, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting article in The Nation today.... which raises the question, just how safe is your Thai bank safe deposit box?

Shooter's wife had the key to his safe : Kasikornbank

THE NATION September 6, 2013 1:00 am

Kasikornbank said yesterday that former national shooting star Chakkrit Panitphatikam's wife had been granted access to the sportsman's safety box because she had a key to it.

Chakkrit said on Wednesday that he had filed a police complaint against his wife Dr Nithawadi Phucharoenyos and the bank's Sukhaphibal III branch for theft, saying valuables worth Bt60 million had gone missing from his safe.

Executive vice-president Pakorn Partanapat said the bank staff had been instructed to help Chakkrit resolve this problem, adding that CCTV images showed Chakkrit's wife asking to open the safe. Since the bank's policy requires the customer to present a key that can be used with the bank's key to open the safe as well as fill in a form, and since she was the account holder's wife, the bank staff accommodated her. Pakorn went on to say that the bank would prevent future problems like this one.

The former sportsman, who was in jail for alleged assault and domestic violence, said he heard that his wife took out the valuables while he was in jail and that he filed a police complaint as soon as he was granted bail.

Chakkrit said the bank staff claimed they did not know of his arrest and that they believed his wife when she said her husband had given her permission. Lamenting that despite paying Bt800,000 to keep his valuables safe, they had been stolen anyway, he said he would take legal action against the bank for violating the contract.

What the article doesn't say, is whether the wife was a named accountholder on the safe deposit box and/or the account it was attached to.

Where I come from, if you're not a named/listed owner of the safe deposit box and produce matching ID, you don't get access, even if you're holding the key.

Edited September 6, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chubby]

at 2 of our local USA banks, I had to explicitly tell them, I wanted ID checked every time, else, they didn't do it. even after I asked them to do it, if they saw me a 2nd , 3rd time, even if different employee, they neglected to ask for ID , fwiw ...

Interesting article in The Nation today.... which raises the question, just how safe is your Thai bank safe deposit box?

Shooter's wife had the key to his safe : Kasikornbank

THE NATION September 6, 2013 1:00 am

Kasikornbank said yesterday that former national shooting star Chakkrit Panitphatikam's wife had been granted access to the sportsman's safety box because she had a key to it.

Chakkrit said on Wednesday that he had filed a police complaint against his wife Dr Nithawadi Phucharoenyos and the bank's Sukhaphibal III branch for theft, saying valuables worth Bt60 million had gone missing from his safe.

Executive vice-president Pakorn Partanapat said the bank staff had been instructed to help Chakkrit resolve this problem, adding that CCTV images showed Chakkrit's wife asking to open the safe. Since the bank's policy requires the customer to present a key that can be used with the bank's key to open the safe as well as fill in a form, and since she was the account holder's wife, the bank staff accommodated her. Pakorn went on to say that the bank would prevent future problems like this one.

The former sportsman, who was in jail for alleged assault and domestic violence, said he heard that his wife took out the valuables while he was in jail and that he filed a police complaint as soon as he was granted bail.

Chakkrit said the bank staff claimed they did not know of his arrest and that they believed his wife when she said her husband had given her permission. Lamenting that despite paying Bt800,000 to keep his valuables safe, they had been stolen anyway, he said he would take legal action against the bank for violating the contract.

What the article doesn't say, is whether the wife was a named accountholder on the safe deposit box and/or the account it was attached to.

Where I come from, if you're not a named/listed owner of the safe deposit box and produce matching ID, you don't get access, even if you're holding the key.

[Mike45]

My bank in the USA was the same unfortunately. They looked at the key. Did a cursory look at the signature. Then let me have access. They didn't even know me.

I complained but they had no structure in place to do it differently.

[Pib]

Speaking of PenFed Visa credit cards, the PenFed Visa Platinum credit card (no foreign transaction fee) for the wife and I showed up in the mail today....just need to make the call and activate the cards now. I now have a no foreign transaction fee backup credit card to my no foreign transaction fee CapOne Mastercard.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this PenFed Visa card provides a cash back of 5% on vehicle fuel when "paid at pump." I'm assuming "paid at pump" means one of those self service fuel pumps with built-in credit/debit card point of sale capability...a type of fuel pump I've never seen in Thailand since everything I've experienced has been attendants who pump the fuel and then take your payment via card or cash. And for a card payment they use the normal point of sale machine at the pumps payment area....I seriously doubt this will meet the "paid at pump" requirement to get 5% cash back...but hey, I may get lucky...it would indeed be a nice 5% cash back surprise vs the normal 0.25% PenFed cash back. Just today I filled up using my CapOne Mastercard No Hassle card which provides 2% cash back on fuel purchases so I will need to burn off some diesel before I can check the PenFed card.

But my real objective of getting the PenFed Visa credit card was to have a backup no foreign transaction fee credit card in case CapOne changes its fee policy someday....you just never know when things might change...heck, PenFed may even start charging a foreign transaction fee but right now they don't. The only constant is change.

Update: As mentioned above I got my PenFed Visa card, have used it a couple of times, and got my first eStatement today which confirmed no foreign transaction fee, you get the Visa exchange rate on transactions, and for that fuel buy I only got the standard cash back of 0.25% versus the fingers-crossed, I sure hope 5% for fuel buys. Oh well, as I mentioned I didn't expect my fuel buy would meet the "paid-at-pump" requirement for the 5% cash back where you slide your card into the pump versus just having the fuel station attendant ring-up the charge on a normal Point-of-Sale machine just like you see in stores. Also confirmed cash back is paid monthly, credited automatically to your monthly statement. So, I will continue to use my Capital One Mastercard which has no foreign transaction fee but gives me 2% cash back on most things like fuel, Lotus/Big C buys, etc., and 1% on everything else. But with the PenFed Visa credit card I now have a backup no foreign transaction fee U.S. credit card in case Capital One ever changes its fee policy.

Here's another update on my PenFed Cash Reward Visa credit card that is a no foreign transaction fee and no annual fee card and had a 0.25% cash reward program...it also had a 3% gas purchase "at the pump" cash back reward but Thailand don't do the pay-at-pump thing were you slide you card into the pump, pay, and pump yourself. Anyway I had originally got the card as a no foreign transaction fee credit card "backup" to my CapOne no foreign transaction fee/no annual fee cards. Used the PenFed card a couple times each year to keep it active...didn't use it more since the CapOne cards cash rewards were som much better (i.e., 2%, 1.5%, or 1% cash back).

Anyway I get a notice in the mail today that effective 26 Oct 13 the card will change from a no annual fee card to a $25 annual fee card. And the 0.25% cash back reward on any purchase will go to zero and the "pay-at-pump" cash back reward will stay at 3% "without qualifying product" and 5% "with qualifying product." The $25 annual fee can also be avoided "with qualifying product."

A "qualifying product" is an active checking account width direct deposit ($250 minimum), Money Market Certficate or IRA Certificate, Mortgage, Installment Loan, or Equity Loan/Line of Credit with balance.

When I originally got the card you only had to open the typical shares savings account with at least $5 which is what I did; none of those qualifying products mentioned above were required then.

The notice gave several easy ways via phone call/email/letter to cancel the card if I don't agree to the changes. I'll think about it a few more days before I contact them, but I expect I will be calling to cancel the card since "I don't do cards with annual fees" and I don't want to open a checking account w/direct deposit with them---got other checking accounts at other banks which meet my needs. Probably close the PenFed savings account also to get my $5 back...one less little account to care and feed.

I'll did a little googling and saw many other folks started getting the same notice this month just like I just got...they are not very happy understandably. When you go to the PenFed web site and look at their Cash Rewards current advertisement it makes no mention of the pending changes. They'll probably wait until 26 Oct 13 to update the website...wanted to notify current card holders first by notice then they'll update the site....and maybe they'll give recent card account opening a grandfather period further don't the road. I don't think the notice I got or what I see other folks getting also as just because I didn't use the card much; I think it's just a change applying to everyone, they are sending out notices first, and will update their website later.

[Pib]

Called PenFed...they assured me the change applies to everyone with the Visa Platinum Cash Rewards card and they had been getting pretty of calls about the notices they sent out. I then asked the rep if annual fees/rewards changes were occurring with any of their other cards. The answer said none she was aware of, only the Cash Rewards card...but she also said she couldn't say what might happen in the future which is understandable.

Wanted to see if I could transfer from the Visa Cash Reward card to another of their no foreign transaction fee Visa cards via a phone call...she initially thought maybe but had to check...came back online a minute later and said I would have to apply from scratch, but she recommended if/when applying for another of their cards to mention in the application comments section I had recently cancelled the PenFed Cash Rewards card and ask for that previous credit line to be considered/transferred to the new card if approved. She said it would be best to cancel the Cash Rewards card before applying for another PenFed card in order to free up space for a large credit line on the new card.

I cancelled the Cash Rewards card during the call and told her to code it as Customer Requested vs PenFed Driven since that's better for your credit rating. She understood why and said they always code card cancellations as either Customer requested or PenFed Directed.

Will evaluate the PenFed current cards and decide which one might be best for me....all of them are no foreign transaction fee/no annual fee cards...some of them have "points" reward programs...some don't. Points rewards cards don't turn me on at all...usually the points just earn you discounts on overpriced services/products/travel which I'm not interested in or don't need. But I'm always interested in "cash." Guess PenFed is just trying to reduce the amount of "cash" rewards they pay out; instead, give you points or nothing instead. Oh well, time to review the PenFed web site some more.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That strange and surprising, Pib, about PFCU not being willing to transfer you over online from an existing credit card of theirs to another one of a different variety.

Sometime in the past year, they offered me a promotion to convert the existing Platinum Cash Rewards card I had with them to their straight Platinum Rewards Card (no cash), which accrues points available for gift cards and such. Still no annual fee and no FCF.

Normally, I'm with you, in that I only deal with real cash back cards. But in this instance, PFCU was offering me (I can't recall exactly now) a $200 or so VISA prepaid gift card as part of the changeover. Since I rarely used their Cash Rewards card previously and didn't plan much use for the future, I took the cash and took them up on their offer.

The entire thing was handled online via their online banking interface, once I called in to say I'd like to take them up on their offer. That led to them sending me out the new CC and changing over the card info in my online banking with them.

I had the feeling, at the time, that they were trying pretty hard to get their existing customers out of the Cash Rewards card, probably because it's more expensive for them to operate compared to the points/rewards cards. Otherwise, I can't imagine why they would have been offering such a substantial one-time cash bonus as an incentive.

I have a couple of PFCU's cards at present (not the Cash Rewards one any longer) and haven't received any mailed notices from them lately about any card terms changes.

Edited September 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

New USAA Bank Customers Must Now Have Military Affiliation

Sep 17, 2013 - 7:26 AM by Ken Tumin

USAA Bank has recently implemented a change in its policy regarding who is eligible to open bank accounts. For new customers, only those with a military affiliation are eligible to open deposit accounts. For several years USAA Bank was allowing anyone in the country to open a deposit account. However, it hasn’t always been open. When I first started to report on USAA Bank eight years ago, the military affiliation was also enforced.

Thanks to the reader who emailed me news of this policy change. I have also confirmed this change by calling USAA. According to the USAA CSR, new customers must have some military affiliation to open a deposit account. That affiliation can include being an active military member, being a veteran or having a family member who is a USAA member. Those who already have a USAA deposit account are grandfathered in. Even if existing bank members don’t have a military affiliation, they can remain with USAA and open new deposit accounts just like they have in the past.

MORE:

Edited September 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

I had the feeling, at the time, that they were trying pretty hard to get their existing customers out of the Cash Rewards card, probably because it's more expensive for them to operate compared to the points/rewards cards. Otherwise, I can't imagine why they would have been offering such a substantial one-time cash bonus as an incentive.

The PenFed rep I talked to said something during our conversation which strongly implied their cash rewards program was going to wayside...they were pushing points rewards programs more now...I was a little surprised to hear the rep say that. But I expect points rewards programs are much cheaper for the bank since they are really getting retailers to subsidized the points rewards programs and many points probably go unused...kinda like mileage earned in frequent flier programs. While I was still working I flew a lot and earned many, many frequent flier miles...and I used a lot of them....but a lot of them also expired because I just couldn't put them to use due to travel location/dates restrictions. I used my last big batch with one airline when moving over here to cover the overweight charge/completely paid for the transport of the 3 dogs and other stuff....but as mentioned I still had many miles just expire.

From googling quite a few people are not happy with the change, especially the ones like me that don't do cards with annual fees, plus apparently that card with its cash reward of 5% for pay-at-the-pump gas purchases...that is indeed a very healthy cash rebate...was the card many people used for their gas purchases. That 5% reward is reducing to 3% unless you obtain one of their qualifying products like I mentioned before. Now, if I could get 5% pay at the pump cash rewards in Thailand I would have probably broken one of my rules not to have annual fee cards/sign-up for one of those qualifying products to avoid the annual fee...but Thailand don't do the pay-at-pump (slide card in the pump) thing....and when first getting the card I did a test buy to see if you got the 5% by just handling the attendant your card for them to process in the POS machine---got the standard 0.25% cash back reward as I figured I would...but at least I did test it out.

I need to study the PenFed website some more as to which Visa card to apply for...they got three Visa cards I'm interested in (not interested in theier AmEx cards) but other than the nickname/trade-name they give each card there seems to be little significant difference. Other than PenFed's no foreign transaction fee credit cards, none of their other products interest me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As you know, all cards have a variety of different feature sets, and it depends on what features a person is looking for as to what makes the best fit.

But overall, I like PFCU's Promise Visa card... a 7.49% APR interest rate for the first three years, followed by a standard rate that's currently 9.99%, plus regularly recurring balance transfer offers of 4.99% for the life of the balance with no transfer fee. No annual fee, no FCF, and pretty much no other fees of any kind.

I'm sure, some people might say, they don't carry revolving balances so it doesn't matter. But the Promise card is AFAIK one of the lowest regular APRs out there for a credit card, and I like having that available in my portfolio as an option, even if I don't often use it.

And some things, it makes sense to pay on credit. For example, I usually charge my annual health insurance policy premium to a credit card with cash back rewards, then promptly transer the balance to either a no fee/0% interest year-long promo card, or failing that, the PFCU Promise card at 4.99% APR and no transfer fee.

[Pib]

After review of PenFed's cards last night and again about an hour ago I'm leaning towards the Promise card right now. It don't have a rewards program but it does "lack" a variety of fees typical to almost all cards like a cash advance fee. I was a little surprised it didn't charge a cash advance fee....I think that is the first card I've run across that don't charge such a fee. I've never done a cash advance in my life but you never know. And maybe the card's name of Promise to imply a promise of not having various fees typical to cards will help keep it a no fee card like its current no foriegn transaction fee, no annual fee, etc. I would use the card occassionally to keep it active but it would really just be a backup to my CapOne no fee with rewards credit cards..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pib]

In addition to the membership rule change, USAA is also increasing its "wire" transfer fee (not to be confused with USAA's free "ACH" funds transfer which I expect--hope--folks use when transferring funds from their USAA account to Bangkok Bank account). See the quote below from an email notice. They do apologize for any inconvenience this may cause...but apparently don't feel apologetic for increasing the wire transfer fee.

Thank you for trusting us to help you with banking needs. Beginning Oct.19, 2013, we are changing our wire transfer fees. All outgoing international wire transfers will be sent through the Bank of New York Mellon and a new International Wire Service Fee of $25 will be charged. We are also lowering our Wire Transfer Fee from $35 to $20. The total fees for international wire transfers will now be $45.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. We value your business and the opportunity to serve you.

Thank you,
USAA Federal Savings Bank

[chubby]

i personally, don't have a credit union, but it seems like if one wants one, they should sign up soon. if you've any winners/reasons to have the credit union vs. the big bank cards plz let me know , right now i have the CapOne 360 and Schwab for debit, and the Cap One Visa/MCs for cc , not sure if that is enough, for now and the future...... ? maybe a 3rd debit makes sense via a credit union, since the 360 debit seems a bit uncertain ?

http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2013/09/ncua-cracking-down-on-open-to-all-federal-credit-unions.html

[CaptHaddock]

I have had the Promise card for several years. The most unusual feature is that there is no late fee. If you pay late they just charge interest, no wacking you with a $35 late fee. I was happy to find it because my previous bank had been holding my payments and applying them along with a late fee.

After review of PenFed's cards last night and again about an hour ago I'm leaning towards the Promise card right now. It don't have a rewards program but it does "lack" a variety of fees typical to almost all cards like a cash advance fee. I was a little surprised it didn't charge a cash advance fee....I think that is the first card I've run across that don't charge such a fee. I've never done a cash advance in my life but you never know. And maybe the card's name of Promise to imply a promise of not having various fees typical to cards will help keep it a no fee card like its current no foriegn transaction fee, no annual fee, etc. I would use the card occassionally to keep it active but it would really just be a backup to my CapOne no fee with rewards credit cards..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pib]

Capt, Thanks for the positive feedback. Yea, none of those typical fees such as balance transfer fee, cash advance fee, foreign transaction fee, late payment fee, over credit limit fee, or returned payment fee. Many of those types of fees/penalties are pretty much standard even on cards reserved for folks with excellent credit.

For others listing in, here's a Link to the PenFed site talking about the card...then click on the Summary of Terms sublink and it will pull up a small PDF document listing its fees---our should I say lack of fees.

I have had the Promise card for several years. The most unusual feature is that there is no late fee. If you pay late they just charge interest, no wacking you with a $35 late fee. I was happy to find it because my previous bank had been holding my payments and applying them along with a late fee.

After review of PenFed's cards last night and again about an hour ago I'm leaning towards the Promise card right now. It don't have a rewards program but it does "lack" a variety of fees typical to almost all cards like a cash advance fee. I was a little surprised it didn't charge a cash advance fee....I think that is the first card I've run across that don't charge such a fee. I've never done a cash advance in my life but you never know. And maybe the card's name of Promise to imply a promise of not having various fees typical to cards will help keep it a no fee card like its current no foriegn transaction fee, no annual fee, etc. I would use the card occassionally to keep it active but it would really just be a backup to my CapOne no fee with rewards credit cards..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[infinity11]

i personally, don't have a credit union, but it seems like if one wants one, they should sign up soon. if you've any winners/reasons to have the credit union vs. the big bank cards plz let me know , right now i have the CapOne 360 and Schwab for debit, and the Cap One Visa/MCs for cc , not sure if that is enough, for now and the future...... ? maybe a 3rd debit makes sense via a credit union, since the 360 debit seems a bit uncertain ?

http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2013/09/ncua-cracking-down-on-open-to-all-federal-credit-unions.html

I only know a little bit about everything, having said that i called my CU and asked if they use fractional reserve banking and what happens if there is a run on banks, the answers were yes and we can get the money from 'another place.' HA!

[Pib]

Well, a turn of events has occurred. I decided to apply for the PenFed Promise card, was approved, but it was approved for a ridiculously low line of credit. So, I gave PenFed a call and told them that the previous PenFed rep I talked to two days ago said I could ask for the line of credit from my PenFed Cash Rewards card be transferred to the new card I applied for by entering the request in the application comment area; however, there was no comment section to enter any request. I told the rep I talked to tonight my story about what the other rep had told me that they couldn't just transfer me to another card over the phone...and that rep and asked someone else during our call and got confirmation it couldn't be done. But the rep tonight said she had been doing it. She said the low line of credit for the Promise card was probably due to my Cash Rewards card still be open eating up the line of credit they could offer me.

And the rep tonight said as of yesterday PenFed was now offering a couple other products to avoid the $25 annual fee on the Cash Reward card...and they were mailing everyone a new letter with the additional options/ways to keep the card a no annual fee card. The easiest option was to open a Money Market account with a minimum $25 opening deposit and follow-on balance requirement....they give several options in how to initially fund the account, cash, credit card, funds transfer, etc. I opted to fund via ACH transfer from another of my banks which I did with the rep on the phone. I was given the new money market account number over the phone and it's already reflecting in my online account. The rep said my Cash Rewards card was still showing as active in the system...and it was still showing on my online account...she said the credit card department has been swamped lately and apparently had not totally cancelled/killed the card yet....she sent a high priority email to the cancellation department to "not" cancel my Cash Reward card based on my earlier request and she would also cancel my Promise card application. I had not cut-up my cards yet so I should still be good to go.

So, it appears things PenFed probably got a lot of feedback (hate mail) from Cash Reward card holders who were not happy with the mew $25 annual fee and the associated ways offered to avoid the fee...so, PenFed added some new, easier options to keep the card a no annual fee card. I guess PenFed does listen to members feedback...at least sometimes.

[Pib]

By goodness, when looking at PenFed's FaceBook page today/21Sep13, plenty of hate mail, especially on their recent annual fee policy change on their Cash Rewards credit card.

I even had to call them again last night/20 Sep because my PenFed Cash Reward credit card account disappeared off my online account yesterday morning when I checked. Apparently the department that cancels cards went ahead and cancelled the card which made it disappear from my online account although the rep I talked to on 19 Sep and the action she took to keep the card active didn't pan out. A day later in my 20 Sep call to ask what the heck happened the rep I talked to this time and her supervisor took immediate action to initiate reactivation of the card. I was getting ready to call them again tonight/21 Sep about the status of the reactivation because after checking my online account several times today the card still hadn't reappeared on my online account...but around 6:30pm Thailand time it showed up on my online account again as active...that's good because at 7pm which was 8pm U.S. eastern time when they open customer service I was going to give them a call again to ask why the card was not showing on my online account to confirm it had indeed been reactivated. They probably did reactivate it shortly after my 20 Sep call, but it just took their system approx. 24 hours to update to where it reappeared on my online account. "All the PenFed reps I talked to each time were very helpful," but being a big organization I guess the action to cancel the card by one rep closely followed by the action to stop the card cancellation by another rep just passed each other in the night...and then a card reactivation was required due to the night time passing. Hopefully this affair is behind me now...but I'll use that card on my next Ebay buy to make sure it works.

This little episode has also taught me that if I ever decide I want to switch cards with a bank/company because they have a newer card offering a better deal/rewards program that I will make every effort to accomplish that switch over the phone versus cancelling the old card and then shortly afterwards applying for the new card. If the first rep I talk to says "no-can-do, must apply for the new card" I'll just wait a few days and call back again to see what the next rep says. Because as I mentioned in my other post, I was approved for the new Promise card but with a very low credit line most likely because the old Cash Rewards card was still eating up the max credit line they would offer to me. But as mentioned I only did the application for the new Promise card because the first rep I talked to said I had to do it that way (and she even checked with her supervisor)...but in a follow-on call to another rep said she would have switched me over the phone with no new application required. Even though that Promise card application/approval was supposedly cancelled at my request, I won't be surprised if a card shows up in the mail....if it does, I guess I'll just have another PenFed no foreign transaction fee credit card but with a low credit line which I can probably get bumped later on....but hopefully that application truly did get killed.

[zeekgarcia]

Zeek, so, if I'm following your latest post correctly, you seem to have calculated that your Fidelity VISA card ATM withdrawal on July 12 produced pretty much exactly what the VISA network rate for that day was.

In other words, no foreign currency fee deducted -- despite Fidelity's website language to the contrary. Which is what others here had advised you to expect.

Yes you are right!

One interesting thing when I called the card service company that services the atm cards for Fidelity to tell them that I would be using the card in Thailand was the card service company csr said that if I use the visa atm card to make a purchase then I would be charged the 1% visa fee.

So this may bring up an interesting point that if you are talking to a bank csr about a atm card or debit card or credit card maybe ask if the bank directly services the card or do they use a service company and then call the service company and see what they you also about the card. To see if things add up.

I just wanted to update this because when I spoke with the Fidelity card service company csr, they said that I would only be charged the 1% visa fee for making purchases and not for doing an over the counter cash withdraw using the Fidelity Visa Debit Atm Card and assured me of it but when I finally checked up on the result of the over the counter cash withdraws that I had done I was shocked that I was being charged the 1% visa fee. So Fidelity does charge the 1% visa fee for over the counter cash withdraws. BUT Fidelity does not charge the 1% visa fee for atm withdraws and will refund atm fees but if you have an AEON atm machine near you, it is better to use it because AEON does not charge the 150/180 atm fee as other thai banks do. Therefore you will not help kill the generosity of Fidelity for those that do not have any AEON atms near them.

Edited December 1, 2013 by zeekgarcia

[JimGant]

So Fidelity does charge the 1% visa fee for over the counter cash withdraws. BUT Fidelity does not charge the 1% visa fee for atm withdraws

Sounds like they're competing directly with Schwab, in that they're 'eating' the 1% foreign transaction fee for ATM transactions (but why that's unadvertised is curious....).

But for POS and over-the-counter cash transactions, the 1% fee occurs. And, as such, these transactions are encoded differently than for an ATM transaction.

Nothing curious about a POS transaction being differently encoded than that for an ATM transaction. But getting cash "manually" might not seem to warrant different encoding than from a machine. However, look at the bottom of the chart shown here: http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/visa-usa-interchange-reimbursement-fees-april2013.pdf

[The chart is for transactions within the US, but still serves to illustrate different encodings.]

So, yeah, a counter transaction doesn't show up as an ATM transaction to Fidelity -- hence, the 1% fee. But, the common vanilla clerk at Fidelity probably wouldn't know manual cash receipt is treated differently than receipt from an ATM.