"Retirement" Extension Experience July 22, 2011

[mojaco]

"Retirement" Extension. Both USA citizens. Husband getting extension for "retirement" using affidavit method. Wife getting extension as "Dependent of Husband on Retirement Extension"

Thanks to all for the various advice and comments over the past several weeks. Our extension and re-entry permit process in Bangkok took just under 2 hours (8:44 AM to 10:40 AM)

For the "Retirement Extension" using the affidavit method (USA citizen)

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Thanks to Lopburi3's suggestion, I had our TM7 forms completed before arriving at Immigration, and obtained queue tickets immediately at 8:44 AM with 9 to be processed ahead of us. They called us about 15 - 20 minutes later.

They Did Not Ask For:

(1) Medical Certificate (I didn't take one)

(2) Address Verification (I took some, telephone bill, etc)

(3) Bank Book or copies (I took bank book plus copies)

They Did Want:

(1) Copy of Photo and Data page in passport

(2) Copy of last Entry Stamp in passport

(3) Copy of front and back of Departure Card showing Entry Stamp also

(4) Copy of latest extension stamp

(5) Copy of latest re-entry permit

(6) Copy and translation copy of Marriage License (wife is "Dependent")

(7) Original 65,000 Baht Affidavit from US Embassy (mine was in dollars)

(8) Copy of the "original visa" used for the start of the extensions years ago.

(9) They took computer photos of us (as they had done 2 years ago)

(10) We signed three forms they had (800,00 requirement, current address and phone #, agreement to obey immigration laws)

(11) We paid 1,900 per person for the extensions

I don't recall Immigration wanting the info in (8) about the "original visa" before. My wife's passport has a Non-O from Vancouver, BC, Canada on December 2002, and mine was an entry in my passport attesting to the visas I had held in my previous passport. A little confusing this. My entry page shows a TR visa in 1998 converted to a NON-O visa in 1998 and then another entry showing a NON-RE visa class in 2006. Anyway Immigration wanted copies of these two pages also, which fortunately I had with me.

The officer lady then asked me "Did I show some proof at the US Embassy to get this affidavit?" I answered, "No, I just affirmed before the officer that what is written is the truth."

The officer then asked me "So how do you get your money, ATM? Bank?" I answered "The funds are deposited monthly into my bank in the USA." and I gave her an internet printout of the last three months of activity in my USA bank checking account showing the deposits. The officer enthusiastically answered "Thank You!" and stapled that copy along with all of the other copies I gave. She didn't even really examine the printout, but clearly she was under some stress to have to find some "evidence" and my printout relieved her greatly. For my part, I didn't feel like pursuing just where that line of questioning was going to go to, so I just gave the "proof". It is possible she might have been satisfied with a pile of ATM receipts, or a copy of a passbook showing funds flowing into Thailand. But since it IS NOT REQUIRED that funds come into Thailand, only that there be a regular "income" of some type, somewhere, I decided to just show a regular flow of pension funds into my USA bank.

The first officer then had us wait for a second officer to verify everything and sign off in our passport for the extension. It appeared to me that this second officer was somewhat new to this task. She carefully examined the bank account printout to see that it showed monthly deposits of the "income". She then wanted to know if this was an account ONLY in my name or in joint names. (Since it is in fact pension and Social Security funds designated to me only, I failed to see where those funds were deposited as being germane to the Thai regulations.) Finally an older officer came over and told the younger officer that it didn't matter where they were being deposited, and she dropped this line of questioning.

Then an even stranger question. As she examined our marriage license (certified copy from Alaska), she wanted to know how she could tell if the individual with the maiden name that married me was the same person that is actually with me now. (Again I fail to see that as germane . . . who cares what the maiden name might be? The married names and birth dates agree with the passports, that should be enough.) I offered to have my wife (Japanese born, naturalized USA citizen) write her maiden in Japanese so she could find some Japanese person in Immigration to see if the English transliteration on the Marriage License agreed with the Japanese Kanji name. She declined and sort of apologized by saying "Sometimes I think too much."

And, finally, she signed off on the extension at 9:45 AM.

Re-Entry Permits (TM8 form):

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Our TM8 form was completed in advance, but in order to get a queue ticket for this process, I had to go downstairs and have a suitable set of copies made of our passports. Included were

(1) Copy of Photo and Data page in passport

(2) Copy of prior extension stamp and re-entry stamp (last year's)

(3) Copy of front of Departure Card showing Entry Stamp also

(4) Copy of latest entry stamp in passport

(5) Copy of new extension stamp (the one just obtained today)

(6) I paid 3,800 Baht each for multiple-re-entry stamps, and was done a short time later.

This was a pleasant visit to Immigration. The officers seemed relaxed and friendly, and the section for retirement and marriage extensions was only half full (the tourist extension section was packed!) The copy place downstairs knew exactly what was needed for "Re-Entry" permits and it only cost about 2 Baht per page. We took BTS from downtown Bangkok to Mo Chit then a taxi for 65 Baht to Immigration. We took a taxi back to downtown for 185 Baht.

Edited July 22, 2011 by mojaco

[kamalabob2]

That was a timely and well written post. I'll report how my same procedures go in Korat next week. His check list is a good reminder for me and perhaps other expats. Thanks!

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Sounds good, thanks for the detailed posting. However, this line is a bit curious"

"(7) Original 65,000 Baht Affidavit from US Embassy (mine was in dollars)"

???

Ah, got it, that's the Embassy's chop on your statement that you have an income of baht 65,000 a month.

Mac

[sms747]

why did they want to see marriage certs, or know anything about your wife at all if it was a retirement extension?

[FarangBuddha]

One time they asked me the names and occupations of my sister and brother in the States...strange buggers those immigration officers

[mojaco]

why did they want to see marriage certs, or know anything about your wife at all if it was a retirement extension?

Both of us are USA citizens getting yearly extensions for "retirement". Only one of us needs to meet the financial requirements (800,000 or 65,000) and then the spouse gets his/hers free as the "dependent spouse". So that person has to prove being married to the one meeting the financial requirements.

Or, each could get independent extensions but then each would have to meet the financial requirements.

Edited July 22, 2011 by mojaco

[PattayaParent]

They required the marriage license to be translated from English into Thai?

(6) Copy and translation copy of Marriage License (wife is "Dependent")

As she examined our marriage license (certified copy from Alaska)

Edited July 22, 2011 by PattayaParent

[lopburi3]

Because his wife was was with him getting a dependent extension of stay on the basis of being his wife.

[mojaco]

Sounds good, thanks for the detailed posting. However, this line is a bit curious"

"(7) Original 65,000 Baht Affidavit from US Embassy (mine was in dollars)"

???

Ah, got it, that's the Embassy's chop on your statement that you have an income of baht 65,000 a month.

Mac

Actually the USA affidavit says I have a certain income in dollars ($x,xxx). It is Thai Immigration that will convert it into Thai Baht to see that it is greater than 65,000 Baht.

[Sateev]

why did they want to see marriage certs, or know anything about your wife at all if it was a retirement extension?

Because his wife was applying for her permit to stay as his dependent (spouse) at the same time.

RIF

[mojaco]

They required the marriage license to be translated from English into Thai?

(6) Copy and translation copy of Marriage License (wife is "Dependent")

As she examined our marriage license (certified copy from Alaska)

Yes, it has to be translated. There are many places in Bangkok that can do that service. It only has to be done once of course, and copies used thereafter.

[PattayaParent]

They required the marriage license to be translated from English into Thai?

(6) Copy and translation copy of Marriage License (wife is "Dependent")

As she examined our marriage license (certified copy from Alaska)

Yes, it has to be translated. There are many places in Bangkok that can do that service. It only has to be done once of course, and copies used thereafter.

Yet all the other documents are in English and don't require translation to Thai?

[mojaco]

They required the marriage license to be translated from English into Thai?

(6) Copy and translation copy of Marriage License (wife is "Dependent")

As she examined our marriage license (certified copy from Alaska)

Yes, it has to be translated. There are many places in Bangkok that can do that service. It only has to be done once of course, and copies used thereafter.

Yet all the other documents are in English and don't require translation to Thai?

That is the only document they have ever required for me to have translated into Thai. That requirement was years ago. Perhaps now they don't require it, and someone with more recent experience at beginning extensions can answer to that? Of course there are probably marriage licenses in German, French, Spanish, etc, etc and Immigration would want a Thai translation of those for certain I would imagine.

And I also recall that it had to be a translation agency that Immigration had confidence in.

Edited July 22, 2011 by mojaco

[PattayaParent]

^it's just that in my case for my wife's dependent visa piggybacking my work permit they wanted the marriage certificate translated into English, no mention of Thai translation.

[mojaco]

^it's just that in my case for my wife's dependent visa piggybacking my work permit they wanted the marriage certificate translated into English, no mention of Thai translation.

That would have saved me some cost years ago. Perhaps it was "officer dependent" back then for a Thai translation and not an overall policy. Or maybe their English skills are better now?

[TerryLH]

"Yet all the other documents are in English and don't require translation to Thai?"

A guess - the other forms are standard things they see every day.

It's probably been awhile, if ever, that they'vs seen an Alaskan marriage certificate.

Multiply that be every single place someone could get a cert from = translation required.

[Tafia]

Did mine today in Udon, based on retirement. In and out in 15 minutes I couldnt believe it. My fastest time ever.

No questions other than asking if the amount on my Embassy letter was monthly. He gave me a new reporting date (90day) from today.

Friendly relaxed, chatty in all a pleasurable experience.

[ExC5Engineer]

Did mine today in Udon, based on retirement. In and out in 15 minutes I couldnt believe it. My fastest time ever.

No questions other than asking if the amount on my Embassy letter was monthly. He gave me a new reporting date (90day) from today.

Friendly relaxed, chatty in all a pleasurable experience.

I Think it has a lot to do with Attitude!! Yours must have been Great!!

[KED]

really thorough report - thanks for the detail.

[moe666]

Sounds about like mine report several months ago, except I got caught behind line jumpers and it took 4 hours. Good report, maybe all the question stemmed from the officer just trying to do a good job or what she precieved as a good job.

[TaoNow]

These kind of detailed trip reports are the most valuable part of the Forum.

So thanks Mojaco.

I am curious however, how IMMO would treat a US bank statement that just showed a balance of $27,000+ (i.e., 65,000 baht * 12).

I pose this question because not everyone will take their pension in terms of monthly installments or payments (as in Social Security).

Some might cash out their entire IRA in a lump sum or take an annuity -- paid in annual installments to their checking account.

If another (U.S. American) TV member has some experience with IMMO in this area, please post.

[mojaco]

These kind of detailed trip reports are the most valuable part of the Forum.

So thanks Mojaco.

I am curious however, how IMMO would treat a US bank statement that just showed a balance of $27,000+ (i.e., 65,000 baht * 12).

I pose this question because not everyone will take their pension in terms of monthly installments or payments (as in Social Security).

Some might cash out their entire IRA in a lump sum or take an annuity -- paid in annual installments to their checking account.

If another (U.S. American) TV member has some experience with IMMO in this area, please post.

^TaoNow

My personal OPINION is that if you can substantiate annual deposits that amount to the required "monthly income", I would think Immigration agents would accept that. But so far there hasn't been anyone giving experience like that. Here are two threads (March and June) that talked about this affidavit issue in great depth . . . all without definitive answers. Except it is considered wise to take along something that might convince an examining officer that the affidavit has funds to back it up. I would personally be willing to try an annual deposit as meeting the monthly requirement, but I don't have to in my case.

Here is the March thread

March Thread

Here is the June thread

June Thread

Edited July 23, 2011 by mojaco

[waterskier]

For three years my spouse was able to receive a dependents visa attached to my retirement extension. (We are both British and she was under 50). For the first year after turning 50, again she received a dependents visa. However last year this was questioned as Immigration claimed that rules had been changed and she would need to apply for her own visa. (Thus requiring 1.6M baht on deposit for 3 months). After much debate she did receive the extension.

In the scenario above is the spouse under or over 50? Any clarification sppreciated: if for 5 years one has received an extension based on dependency (marriage) can one still apply under this rule or do 2 visas have to be applied for?

[lopburi3]

She should always be able to obtain dependent with marriage proof and you having retirement extension but your account should be in your name only. If both names are on account used it could be an issue.

[mojaco]

<snip>

In the scenario above is the spouse under or over 50? Any clarification sppreciated:

<snip>

We are both over 60 (well over). A few years ago (3?) we got caught in a 6 week period of time when Immigration "changed the policy" requiring both spouses to have 800,000 (or individual affidavids). But in the end that new "policy" was rescinded back to the "dependent spouse" one, so we ended up OK. I hope they don't try that again!

[brianb1944]

why did they want to see marriage certs, or know anything about your wife at all if it was a retirement extension?

Because she was also applying as his dependant partner

[fritzgoss]

I just finished the annual extension of my retirement visa on July 20 and used my income tax return (US1040) as the basis for the income to back up the letter from the embassy. the officer asked me to explain the line items on the first page making up my adjusted gross income, and I pointed out which were income from interest and dividends or rental income, etc. I did ask the officer if I was to provide this evidence of income in the future, did I still need the letter from the embassy, to which he said 'Yes'. Given interest rates now in Thailand (3-4% vs. .01% in the US), I might opt for the local bank deposit method instead and save the cost of the US Embassy notary (which, at $50 I think is outrageously overpriced) and earn the extra interest and just pay 100 baht for the letter from the bank. I also was asked for an extra page from my passport, which fortunately I had, but I think I will just copy all the pages from my passport next year and let them decide which ones they want. I found the process relatively quick and efficient this year, although a bit longer than the year before. But I advise arriving at the immigration office as early as possible. I got there at 8:30 am, just as they were letting the line in, and was No. 10 in the queue, and had to wait about 30 minutes for my interview, at which time I saw people with numbers above 40, so they likely had a long wait.

[Bosse137]

mojako,I am greatly impressed with your detailed report,even down to the cost of taxi!! I have another kind of visa extension,but I could not help going on reading..If it isn`t rude and if you feel like it,could you tell me what your occupation was?Just curious....

[moe666]

I just finished the annual extension of my retirement visa on July 20 and used my income tax return (US1040) as the basis for the income to back up the letter from the embassy. the officer asked me to explain the line items on the first page making up my adjusted gross income, and I pointed out which were income from interest and dividends or rental income, etc. I did ask the officer if I was to provide this evidence of income in the future, did I still need the letter from the embassy, to which he said 'Yes'. Given interest rates now in Thailand (3-4% vs. .01% in the US), I might opt for the local bank deposit method instead and save the cost of the US Embassy notary (which, at $50 I think is outrageously overpriced) and earn the extra interest and just pay 100 baht for the letter from the bank. I also was asked for an extra page from my passport, which fortunately I had, but I think I will just copy all the pages from my passport next year and let them decide which ones they want. I found the process relatively quick and efficient this year, although a bit longer than the year before. But I advise arriving at the immigration office as early as possible. I got there at 8:30 am, just as they were letting the line in, and was No. 10 in the queue, and had to wait about 30 minutes for my interview, at which time I saw people with numbers above 40, so they likely had a long wait.

At what office did you apply for extension of stay? Did you volunteer to show 1040 or did they ask for confirmation of the Embassy letter, important distinction. Thanks for additional info.

[mojaco]

mojako,I am greatly impressed with your detailed report,even down to the cost of taxi!! I have another kind of visa extension,but I could not help going on reading..If it isn`t rude and if you feel like it,could you tell me what your occupation was?Just curious....

I have a graduate degree in engineering and used to be Engineering Services Manager in a corporation. So I guess capturing detail to paper is almost automatic with me after all of those years. I also worked in a Japanese corporation for a while and they are VERY detail orientated in their requirements. They are very successful but there is a lot of pressure working with them.