webfact Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 BURNING ISSUE It's time for reds to show their democratic colours By Pravit Rojanaphruk The Nation Now that the Pheu Thai Party is getting ready to form a new government, the so-called "red shirts for democracy" face the challenge of living up to their self-chosen tag of being "truly democratic". The challenges are manifold, especially since in the next few days, the reds will no longer be part of the opposition but directly related to the administration through red-shirt leaders who are now MPs and their political idol's sister, Yingluck Shinawatra, waiting to become Thailand's first female prime minister. Here are a few things the red shirts could do to "maintain" their democratic credentials: - They must ensure that the freedom of press is respected, especially among the opposition media. Already signs are emerging that critics of the Shinawatra siblings who happen to work in red-sympathetic news organisations like the Matichon newspaper are being sidelined. On July 14, Prasong Lertratanavisut, an editor at Matichon and a former president of the Thai Journalists Association, not so quietly declared on Twitter that he had been told that his column would no longer be needed. He did not elaborate as to why he was told not to write anymore, but his last article for Matichon was critical of Yingluck. More disturbing is the lack of reaction from the so-called progressive red shirts. There's obviously no love lost between Prasong and the red shirts, because Prasong is one of the most rabid anti-Thaksin journalists in the Kingdom. However, if the red shirts support true democracy, then they should come out to defend Prasong and demand that Matichon explain whether the journalist is being punished for his political beliefs. Alas, besides a brief enquiry from people like Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boon-ngam-anong, nothing has been heard on the subject. Elsewhere, the "Red Gossip" short-messaging service told its subscribers on July 7 that police officers who raided three anti-Thaksin yellow-shirt community radio stations a day earlier "were doing their duty". Such remarks are anti-democratic and ironic because the reds are doing exactly what they were at the receiving end of over the past two years. - The reds should have the new Pheu Thai-led government launch reforms that would rein in the Army, handle the southern-most provinces in empathetically, protect the rights of migrant labours, change the lese majeste law, as well as push for the truth behind the April-May 2010 clashes, no matter how unpalatable the findings may be to others or the reds themselves. - They should pressure the new government to provide assistance to those affected by the April-May crackdown, regardless of which side the victims are on. Though the release of a hundred or so detained red-shirt supporters is more or less guaranteed, nothing is being done for the many small businesses that were affected by last year's mayhem. - The reds should introduce reforms in their own group so it becomes transparent, accountable and allows true participation. They should also ensure that the leaders do not have the power to mislead the masses or act without majority consent. - If the Pheu Thai-led government fails to ensure democracy, those who call themselves truly democratic should be willing to sever their ties and even stand in opposition of the ruling party. The word "democracy" has been misused in Thailand for a while now, and one can only hope that the red shirts do not end up abusing the word and rendering it even more meaningless. -- The Nation 2011-07-28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuket1 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We all know that real democracy and reds won't mix. (its his way and no other way) Feel sorry for all the people who believed in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Generally speaking, at the end of most games, the players exchange shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNIvar Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Generally speaking, at the end of most games, the players exchange shirts. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've said it before and I'll say it again - not one person in the reds has ever given a detailed presentation, given a detailed explanation to their followers, distributed any focus and detailed literature about what democracy really means, why it is good, the pillars that build democracy and the pillars that need to be strongly and continuously protected. And one of them is freedom of speech and encouragement of broad open discussion and listening to all arguments. Why has none of the above even been done by the reds? - Most of them have zero to little actual knowledge of the subject. - In reality the word 'democracy' is just a nasty smokescreen over a different intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yay for Red Democracy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilDrSomkid Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Petulant children is what they are. Winner takes all, so now the people who opposed the red shirts will be on the receiving end of retribution. Edited July 28, 2011 by EvilDrSomkid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 The Matichon removal of a columnist critical of the incoming government is worrying to anyone who believes in free speech and should be criticized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 The writer must be kidding or at least tell us what he is smoking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddbbot Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Petulant children is what they are. Winner takes all, so now the people who opposed the red shirts will be on the receiving end of retribution. You tell that to the people who ate green-tipped bullets in the head and to the hundreds of unreleased political prisoners who weren't even charged with any crimes. Oh, and to their families too! Now who's the kid!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickymaster Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Correct!! I've said it before and I'll say it again - not one person in the reds has ever given a detailed presentation, given a detailed explanation to their followers, distributed any focus and detailed literature about what democracy really means, why it is good, the pillars that build democracy and the pillars that need to be strongly and continuously protected. And one of them is freedom of speech and encouragement of broad open discussion and listening to all arguments. Why has none of the above even been done by the reds? - Most of them have zero to little actual knowledge of the subject. - In reality the word 'democracy' is just a nasty smokescreen over a different intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We all know that real democracy and reds won't mix. (its his way and no other way) Feel sorry for all the people who believed in them. They were duped big time I'm afraid!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Correct!! I've said it before and I'll say it again - not one person in the reds has ever given a detailed presentation, given a detailed explanation to their followers, distributed any focus and detailed literature about what democracy really means, why it is good, the pillars that build democracy and the pillars that need to be strongly and continuously protected. And one of them is freedom of speech and encouragement of broad open discussion and listening to all arguments. Why has none of the above even been done by the reds? - Most of them have zero to little actual knowledge of the subject. - In reality the word 'democracy' is just a nasty smokescreen over a different intent. They never gave a detailed presentation of what it (democracy) is because they don't know themselves!!!! Even if they did explain it to the fools who voted them into power then they would be none the wiser afterwards. Red shirts probably think democracy is a bad thing because they've been indoctrinated into believing that the Democrats are evil and so that the similar word democracy must be evil too!!! Edited July 28, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTumTiger Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We all know that real democracy and reds won't mix. (its his way and no other way) Feel sorry for all the people who believed in them. They were duped big time I'm afraid!!! You were only duped if you didn't expect this. And if you didn't expect this, you weren't duped, you're just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Petulant children is what they are. Winner takes all, so now the people who opposed the red shirts will be on the receiving end of retribution. You tell that to the people who ate green-tipped bullets in the head and to the hundreds of unreleased political prisoners who weren't even charged with any crimes. Oh, and to their families too! Now who's the kid!? So the red shirts (and their associates the black shirts) were blameless in all this then!!!! I suppose the army planted people on their stages telling the red shirts to go forth and burn Bangkok down to teach the "elitists" a lesson as their illegal occupation of the streets was being disassembled. Or perhaps the army started the fires and blamed it on those poor innocent red shirts that either had hearing impediments or were not present when speaker after speaker encouraged them into these dastardly acts. You may be a 'newby' but you have much to learn!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We all know that real democracy and reds won't mix. (its his way and no other way) Feel sorry for all the people who believed in them. They were duped big time I'm afraid!!! You were only duped if you didn't expect this. And if you didn't expect this, you weren't duped, you're just stupid. In their defence - the poor who voted them into office have had sub-standard educations and are extremely gullible to say the least. What Pheu Thai did in promising the impossible to garner votes was immoral and unethical and they will be found out now for what they are. I just hope that they will have learned their lesson but I'm not holding out too much hope on this as they are tricked so easily - a bit like turkeys voting for christmas I'm afraid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 One inappropriate post removed. This is not about Hitler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirholly Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 welcome to banana re(d)public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Correct!! I've said it before and I'll say it again - not one person in the reds has ever given a detailed presentation, given a detailed explanation to their followers, distributed any focus and detailed literature about what democracy really means, why it is good, the pillars that build democracy and the pillars that need to be strongly and continuously protected. And one of them is freedom of speech and encouragement of broad open discussion and listening to all arguments. Why has none of the above even been done by the reds? - Most of them have zero to little actual knowledge of the subject. - In reality the word 'democracy' is just a nasty smokescreen over a different intent. They never gave a detailed presentation of what it (democracy) is because they don't know themselves!!!! Even if they did explain it to the fools who voted them into power then they would be none the wiser afterwards. Red shirts probably think democracy is a bad thing because they've been indoctrinated into believing that the Democrats are evil and so that the similar word democracy must be evil too!!! "is because they don't know themselves!!!! Even if they did explain it to the fools who voted them into power then they would be none the wiser afterwards." there are many forms of democracy....do you understand it? can you explain it? Edited July 28, 2011 by nurofiend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Red shirts probably think democracy is a bad thing because they've been indoctrinated into believing that the Democrats are evil and so that the similar word democracy must be evil too!!! also, so do you think the democrats in the past few years have a been a good example for what democracy stands for and means? what type of democracy are we talking about here? Edited July 28, 2011 by nurofiend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Red shirts probably think democracy is a bad thing because they've been indoctrinated into believing that the Democrats are evil and so that the similar word democracy must be evil too!!! also, so do you think the democrats in the past few years have a been a good example for what democracy stands for and means? what type of democracy are we talking about here? Regardless of what the dems did or didn't do in their period in government, or what any pevious government did, it changes nothing in regard to the comments about the red shirt thugs. And don't forget thaksin's several very up-front public statements: - "Democracy is not important for Thailand" - "My aim is not democracy" - "I'm not interested in democracy". And aligned to this he had no hesitation to break serious laws, change laws for his own direct massive benfit, conduct serious human rights abuses. You really belive he's changed his spots? Further question - can anybody share any specific evidence of thaksin ever pushing / directing any of his followers to embrace / respect real democratic concepts or principles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Basically the PTP including many well known red shirt leaders have been voted into office by the people. While this may mean many heads explodinbg and a bunch of truly vile facebook comments about rural people, it is democracy at work. There is also a half selected senate which is looks to be loaded with people not friendly to the incoming government and a whole load of checks and balances that have a track record of finding against the incoming party. This is not some revolution that has happened but Thai demcoracy at work even if it is in a manner different to what know. The PTP policy patform, was clear and well known. The PTP ideas on reconcilliation are pretty well known That PTP is Thaksin's party is well knownpeople That PTP is at odds with the army leadership and some powerful people is very well known That PTP is linked to the reds is very well known That PTP was linked to the April/May demos is very known And still the people elected them knowing all of this as is their democratic right. That their enemies know that the people are aware of all these things and yet still give them a huge mandate is probably the most worrying thing for the PTP enemies, but short of dismantling democracy there is little they can do except accept the terms of PTP reoncilliation. That is reality. That is why things are and will be tense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIAMBULL Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Basically the PTP including many well known red shirt leaders have been voted into office by the people. While this may mean many heads explodinbg and a bunch of truly vile facebook comments about rural people, it is democracy at work. There is also a half selected senate which is looks to be loaded with people not friendly to the incoming government and a whole load of checks and balances that have a track record of finding against the incoming party. This is not some revolution that has happened but Thai demcoracy at work even if it is in a manner different to what know. The PTP policy patform, was clear and well known. The PTP ideas on reconcilliation are pretty well known That PTP is Thaksin's party is well knownpeople That PTP is at odds with the army leadership and some powerful people is very well known That PTP is linked to the reds is very well known That PTP was linked to the April/May demos is very known And still the people elected them knowing all of this as is their democratic right. That their enemies know that the people are aware of all these things and yet still give them a huge mandate is probably the most worrying thing for the PTP enemies, but short of dismantling democracy there is little they can do except accept the terms of PTP reoncilliation. That is reality. That is why things are and will be tense Hear hear! Democracy at work. Flawed and quite irrational, the will of the people is made known. Exciting time for Thailand. A time for transition and perhaps positive change. Good luck Yingluck. May you succeed and achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunterHunter Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Hear hear! Democracy at work. Flawed and quite irrational, the will of the people is made known. Exciting time for Thailand. A time for transition and perhaps positive change. Good luck Yingluck. May you succeed and achieve. This is where i disagree, Nothing positive will come of this government... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Basically the PTP including many well known red shirt leaders have been voted into office by the people. While this may mean many heads explodinbg and a bunch of truly vile facebook comments about rural people, it is democracy at work. There is also a half selected senate which is looks to be loaded with people not friendly to the incoming government and a whole load of checks and balances that have a track record of finding against the incoming party. This is not some revolution that has happened but Thai demcoracy at work even if it is in a manner different to what know. The PTP policy patform, was clear and well known. The PTP ideas on reconcilliation are pretty well known That PTP is Thaksin's party is well knownpeople That PTP is at odds with the army leadership and some powerful people is very well known That PTP is linked to the reds is very well known That PTP was linked to the April/May demos is very known And still the people elected them knowing all of this as is their democratic right. That their enemies know that the people are aware of all these things and yet still give them a huge mandate is probably the most worrying thing for the PTP enemies, but short of dismantling democracy there is little they can do except accept the terms of PTP reoncilliation. That is reality. That is why things are and will be tense Hear hear! Democracy at work. Flawed and quite irrational, the will of the people is made known. Exciting time for Thailand. A time for transition and perhaps positive change. Good luck Yingluck. May you succeed and achieve. Buying votes has nothing to dowith democracy. the Red Shirted terrorists don't know the meaning of the word, nor are they interested. You may very possibly have bitten off more than you can chew. Thailand may face something more serious in coming years than ever before. And not for the better. You wish Yingluck success. In what? Do you have any idea what she and her brother intend to do? No, you do not. We may still be able to express our negative opinions and doubts about the new government here on TV. Do you think that will still be the case by this time next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The PTP policy patform, was clear and well known. Unclear and unknown more like. Didn't help that the supposed leader refused to do anything other than smile and make a number one sign with her finger. The PTP ideas on reconcilliation are pretty well known To the extent of it involving whitewashing certain people, yes. But, beyond that, what do we know?... Do we know which people? No. (well, besides Thaksin of course which is a given). Do we know which crimes? Nope. Do we know when this will happen? No. Do we know how will it happen? No. It's great that so much thought has clearly gone into all this and that it has been carefully explained. That PTP is Thaksin's party is well knownpeople How can that be so? Thaksin is banned from politics, isn't he? Or do bans only apply when you lose the election? If you win, well the people have spoken, so go ahead and disregard the rules. They don't apply to you. That PTP is linked to the reds is very well known That PTP was linked to the April/May demos is very known The PTP have just spent the last few years questioning the Dems credibility and telling us what a disgrace it was to have a foreign minister who once took to the PAD stage - and i think they had a valid point on that - and now they look to form a government full of people - not talking about one individual but many - who led an armed and violent uprising just a matter of months ago. And this is the party that is standing up against double standards? OK. So the people chose them. So we have no right to question any of this, and if we do, we are undemocratic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) About a dozen UDD leaders have been put on the Pheu Thai party list of MP candidates on positions more-or-less guaranteeing an MP seat. Those votes were for Pheu Thai, not for a specific candidate. Just wondering what if these UDD leader Pheu Thai candidates had been set as candidate in constituencies, how many would have been voted for sufficiently to be elected? Edited July 29, 2011 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkkorupcountry Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Hear hear! Democracy at work. Flawed and quite irrational, the will of the people is made known. Exciting time for Thailand. A time for transition and perhaps positive change. Good luck Yingluck. May you succeed and achieve. Buying votes has nothing to dowith democracy. the Red Shirted terrorists don't know the meaning of the word, nor are they interested. You may very possibly have bitten off more than you can chew. Thailand may face something more serious in coming years than ever before. And not for the better. You wish Yingluck success. In what? Do you have any idea what she and her brother intend to do? No, you do not. We may still be able to express our negative opinions and doubts about the new government here on TV. Do you think that will still be the case by this time next year? Vote buying was carried out by PT AND the Dems. So the Dems are also not democratic according to you? Do YOU have any idea what Yingluck and her brother intend to do? Do share (undeniable facts), but don't exaggerate or make up your own scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Red shirts probably think democracy is a bad thing because they've been indoctrinated into believing that the Democrats are evil and so that the similar word democracy must be evil too!!! also, so do you think the democrats in the past few years have a been a good example for what democracy stands for and means? what type of democracy are we talking about here? You really belive he's changed his spots? where in my post led you to this assumption/question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) It's interesting to read that the OP is It's time for Reds to show their democratic colours Personally I would already be a bit more happy if they decide to lower their default volume from 'full blast' level to 'ear-splitting' only Edited July 29, 2011 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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