Non O Visa

[gennisis]

I have read many times on this forum that visa's are not issued in Thailand only extensions to stay.

I came to Thailand on a tourist visa....stayed...and then changed to a Non O 2 months later at immigration.

So.. I have a visa that has been issued in country....which is what many people say does'nt happen.

Someone explain ??

I only noticed this because I will soon be having all the relevent details transferred to my new passport.

[beano2274]

It is not a Visa, a visa is a big sticker, what you have is a stamp. A change of permission to stay, from Tourist to Non Immigrant.

See post 14 here

That is a visa.

Edited August 3, 2011 by beano2274

[lopburi3]

Immigration can do a change of entry status as the first step in the one year extension of stay process for 2,000 baht - they do not issue any visa for entry into Thailand at Immigration.

[gennisis]

<br />Immigration can do a change of entry status as the first step in the one year extension of stay process for 2,000 baht - they do not issue any visa for entry into Thailand at Immigration.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That explains it then.....thanks

[JimGant]

It is not a Visa, a visa is a big sticker, what you have is a stamp

The Honorary consulates, at least in the US, still use a stamp for their visas.

Immigration can do a change of entry status as the first step in the one year extension of stay process for 2,000 baht - they do not issue any visa for entry into Thailand at Immigration.

Well, that's kind of splitting hairs. When you convert to a Non Imm visa at Thai Immigration for the purpose of applying for a one-year extension, you get a stamp that says "Non Immigrant Visa" at the top. And, in fact, the TM87 form for converting says "Application for Visa" as its title.

Granted, this visa is not issued per se "for entry into Thailand," although if you had to wait 60 days before applying for the one-year extension, presumably you could travel on this visa -- as long as you got a re-entry permit.

[Mario2008]

A visa is a permit to travel to Thailand, nothing more or less. It is not a permission to enter Thailand or to stay in Thailand. That is something entirely different.

Immigration doesn't give you a permission to travel to Thailand, as you are already in Thailand. Wat they do is change the kind of permission under which you entered Thailand. That determines the time you cna stay and the conditions under which you can get an extension of stay, if you can get a work permit etc.

[JimGant]

A visa is a permit to travel to Thailand, nothing more or less

Well, maybe more....

We still can't get folks to quit saying "retirement visa" when what they mean is "an extension of stay, whose original authorization is a Non Immigrant Visa."

Now we're saying a Non Immigrant Visa, when issued by Immigration, is not a Non Immigrant Visa? But sure it is, since the law requires that retirement (or marriage) extensions have a Non Immigrant Visa as original authorization. It even says "Non Immigrant Visa" at the top -- not "Conversion Stamp."

So, when Immigration issues a Non Immigrant Visa, it is for more than just travel to Thailand...

....although, I submit, that when Immigration converts your tourist/visa exempt entry to a Non Immigrant Visa, with its accompanying 90-day permission of stay, that you certainly can travel on this arrangement, assuming you get a re-entry permit.

[Mario2008]

What is a visa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_(document)

[beano2274]

The Thai Immigration websites and forms use the word "Visa", so it is easier for people to understand. The correct terminology is "Extension" but some people still have not understood what it means.

KISS is the policy they use (Keep It Simple Stupid)

[Maestro]

...So, when Immigration issues a Non Immigrant Visa, it is for more than just travel to Thailand...

The Non-immigrant visa issued by the immigration office is for something other than for travel to Thailand.

....although, I submit, that when Immigration converts your tourist/visa exempt entry to a Non Immigrant Visa, with its accompanying 90-day permission of stay, that you certainly can travel on this arrangement, assuming you get a re-entry permit.

In this scenario, it is not the visa that allows travel to Thailand, but the re-entry permit.

[Maestro]

Here are two examples of non immigrant visas issued by immigration offices. Note that date of issuance, date of expiration and date used are all the same date. Unlike a visa issued by a consulate it does not say "valid for one journey to Thailand"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/gallery/image/9136-change-visa-non-o-bangkok-20080513jpg/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/gallery/image/9060-change-visa-non-o-1-day-20060921jpg/

[JimGant]

In this scenario, it is not the visa that allows travel to Thailand, but the re-entry permit.

But that's true for any visa that's expired -- or been "used," as long as the accompanying permission of stay has not expired, as that's the only thing a re-entry permit addresses. Nothing unique in this scenario, other than the visa was issued for reasons other than travel.

Thanks for posting the pictures of the Non Immigrant Visas, category "O," issued in-country by Immigration.

[Mario2008]

There is no visa issued, but a permission to stay extended.

You do not need permission to travel to Thailand when you are inside Thailand already.

[JimGant]

There is no visa issued, but a permission to stay extended.

Huh? What are those two pictures showing? A Non Immigrant Visa *WAS* issued, plus the related 90-day permission of stay stamp (in most cases, unless same-day one-year extension is granted). The permission of stay you received by entering on a tourist visa, or visa exempt, is not extended -- you receive a brand new Non Imm Visa, plus its 90-day permission of stay, which starts on day Non Immigrant Visa is issued by Immigration.

You do not need permission to travel to Thailand when you are inside Thailand already.

Right. So, ipso facto, since the Non Immigrant Visa issued by Immigration is not for permission to travel to Thailand -- then, by golly, visas *ARE* issued for reasons other than travel.

Call it a proxy visa, if you want.

[Mario2008]

That is a change of the permit under which you travelled to Thailand, which determines your rights when you are allowed entry. You cannot get a multiple entry visa in this way, only a change of your current permisson to stay.

Visa's are issued by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs (consular officers), permissions to stay are issued by the Thai Ministry of Interior (immigration)

[JimGant]

Mario, the pictures clearly show Non Immigrant Visas, Category "O" issued by Immigration. Yes, they're unique -- good only on the day issued -- at which time the related permission of stay is received. But you're saying this is, in fact, just a rewickering of one's initial permission of stay -- because Immigration doesn't have the authority to issue visas? Thus, they are bogus visas?

Since all one-year extensions require a Non Imm visa as basis, and folks had (and still do) problems getting Non Imm visas from MFA consulates for the purpose of retirement, Immigration must have lobbied MFA for permission to issue Non Immigrant Visas, Category "O" for the specific purpose of granting one-year extensions.

Presumably, MFA agreed. Otherwise, what we're seeing, I guess, are bogus and illegal visas issued by Immigration....

[Mario2008]

They are legal. They change the entry to that on a non-immigrant visa, and give you the corresponding permission to stay from day of change.

[JimGant]

Whatever.

As long as it adheres to Police Order 777-2551, where the requirements for one-year extensions have this as the lead in:

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

However, I still can't reconcile that with your, "There is no visa issued, but a permission to stay extended."

To me, "granted" means the same thing as "issued." But, maybe I'm wrong...

[Maestro]

Yes, it is a visa issued, ie stamped in the passport, by an immigration office, in the course of a change of visa, for which application is made with the form "APPLICATION FOR CHANGE OF VISA" (TM.86). It is issued only if the applicant entered Thailand without a non-immigrant visa and meets the requirements for a one-year extension of stay. This visa is invalidated with the stamp "USED" the moment after it has been issued and its only purpose is to enable the applicant to apply for the aforementioned extension of stay. It is in no way a regular visa, ie contrary to what you intimated it is not valid for travel to Thailand. Remember that you wrote "presumably you could travel on this visa" but whichever way you twist and turn it you definitely cannot do that with this visa.

[Maestro]

Right. So, ipso facto, since the Non Immigrant Visa issued by Immigration is not for permission to travel to Thailand -- then, by golly, visas *ARE* issued for reasons other than travel.

Remember that you originally wrote that this visa issued by immigration offices "is for more than just travel to Thailand", meaning that it is valid for travel to Thailand plus something else? That statement was incorrect. The statement that it is issued "for reasons other than travel", as I pointed out and as you repeated above, is correct.

[Maestro]

...And, in fact, the TM87 form for converting says "Application for Visa" as its title...

I suspect that the OP, who arrived in Thailand with a tourist visa, was given the form TM.86 to apply for the change of visa.

[JimGant]

Remember that you wrote "presumably you could travel on this visa" but whichever way you twist and turn it you definitely cannot do that with this visa.

What I wrote was

So, when Immigration issues a Non Immigrant Visa, it is for more than just travel to Thailand...

....although, I submit, that when Immigration converts your tourist/visa exempt entry to a Non Immigrant Visa, with its accompanying 90-day permission of stay, that you certainly can travel on this arrangement, assuming you get a re-entry permit.

Point being, you convert to a Non Imm visa in-country, but get a 90-day permission of stay stamp instead of a same-day one-year extension. In the interim, you'd like to travel. And I'm sure you can -- as you now have the same package most of us here do, namely an expired Non Imm visa, but with a non-expired permission of stay (or a chain thereof) issued before the visa's expiration, plus a re-entry permit. Voila -- you're good to wander the planet.

Remember that you originally wrote that this visa issued by immigration offices "is for more than just travel to Thailand", meaning that it is valid for travel to Thailand plus something else?

I think the context in my quote, above, shows "more than" means "something other than." But, I can see how you could be confused.

In any event, obviously Immigration is not issuing a Non Imm visa for the purposes of travel. They are issuing it because [see all the above].

The OP wrote:

So.. I have a visa that has been issued in country....which is what many people say does'nt happen.

Someone explain ??

Dear OP. Yes, it happens. However, it's not for the purpose of travel. However, if you'd like to travel [see the above]. And, sorry for the semantical goat rope.

[Mario2008]

It might seem semantics, but I don't want people to get confused and have the impression that they can get a visa from immigration. They can't, they can only change their entry status. If they require a new visa, they have to apply abroad.