Tablet Computers Are No Cure For Our Ailing Schools; Thai Opinion

[landofthefree]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Salary completely wrong, Starting pay for a Teacher is about 6000 baht, (for a 21 year old) it goes up every year and includes a guaranteed pension for life. My ex head of English was on 40,000 baht with most teachers on 25,000 or more. This was in a Government school in Bangkok. Don't believe all of the Thai teachers poverty stories because they are usually not true.

No, sorry, it's not completely wrong. I'm going by what teachers told me they received. This wasn't in Bangkok, it was in more rural parts of Thailand. Many government school teachers in Phuket don't make anywhere near what you're quoting here. In fact, there is some salary information on a very recent article at Phuket teacher's salary. "...6,000 baht per month. After Social Security – 420 baht – is deducted, we’ll have just over 5,000 baht per month." This is in Phuket!

I work with a lot of schools and therefore with a lot of teachers. I know what's going on.

My brother is a physics and robotics teacher in the US. I know he is constantly being screwed over and many of his fellow teachers are being denied raises thanks to the economy. Even before the economic problems, US teachers were getting a raw deal. Teaching are one of the most important jobs in society. They should be compensated for their knowledge and expertise.

My friend, do you really believe what the teachers tell you about how poor they are? If you do you are very naive. I have been a teacher in Thailand for 8 years in 3 different schools and teachers are not badly paid especially when you see what they do in a "working" day.

My last school was a private school where one of the teachers was being paid over 60,000 baht a month, 30,000 for his school work and another 30,000 for picking kids up in the school van. I haven't seen many poor teachers but I have seen a lot of lazy ones.

[AngelofDeath]

Without the appropriate resources, there won't be any much changes in the quality of education. I think the only one change would be more children will be wearing spectacles at a younger age.

[tominbkk]

Of course tablets arent going to be a cure-all for the deficiencies of the system. The MoE would need to be sorted out first. However, they are another option for kids and shouldnt be knocked. There are Asian countries aiming on replacing paper in classrooms with these very machines in the not too distant future. Obviously Thailand is behind the curve on this but the idea of issuing tablets is founded on things others are doing. Obviously there is also the advantage that all kids as opposed to just wealthy ones get to handle modern technology and that in itself is going to be a bonus in the future.

Tablets will work if:

• Teachers are trained how to use them for education
• They are loaded with appropriately designed educational software in line with the curriculum
• They have the students' texts and other documents loaded
• There is a proper monitoring of how the tablets are being used by students
• There is a proper/scheduled maintenance program in place
• There is a standards of use contract in place, agreed upon and signed by teachers, students, and parents
• There is some form of thought regarding policies on theft, loss, and damage of tablets
• There is a proper server infrastructure in place, for sending, receiving, saving files

I worked at a school where we ran a pilot High School grade using tablet PCs. These are just some of the criterion we considered before opening up the program. Even then, we had issues.

How many of the above do you think have been considered already by the Thai educators wanting to use tablets? I doubt they had even a thought towards the program, except for the amount of commission they are going to receive from such a large purchase.

[Jingthing]

There is some truth to the populist charge that the traditional "elite" in Thailand have an interest in keeping a large, uneducated, underclass in place. However, there is also truth the Thaksinistas mostly rely on the votes of this same underclass. Not to mention their brutish, armed muscle in the form of the red shirts. So is it REALLY in their interest from a money/power base point of view (what else is there here?) to significantly educate and rise the underclass? Sure it is in their interest to put on a SHOW that's what they want.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Jingthing

[hammered]

There is some truth to the populist charge that the traditional "elite" in Thailand have an interest in keeping a large, uneducated, underclass in place. However, there is also truth the Thaksinistas mostly rely on the votes of this same underclass. Not to mention their brutish, armed muscle in the form of the red shirts. So is it REALLY in their interest from a money/power base point of view (what else is there here?) to significantly educate and rise the underclass? Sure it is in their interest to put on a SHOW that's what they want.

That probably depends on what is needed in terms of workforce in the future. After all the traditional elites, new elites, Thaksinistas are all businesspeople. An upskilling of work force may be something that is needed

[Xangsamhua]

How can you ".......replacing paper in classrooms with these very machines in the not too distant future."

Students, especially at lower levels, need to develop the skills to write more than develop the skills to use a keyboard.

What countries have this policy? Please share.

Korea for one announced recently a move in this direction. The notion of the paperless classroom originated in the states many years ago. Maybe young kids need writing on paper as a part of the learning process but in the future they will be doing nearly all or even all of their writing on keyboards, touchscreens or even via talk to text software with very little actual writing. Communication is changing rapidly

My understanding is not that Korea is planning on a "paperless classroom" in the near future, but that they intend to replace textbooks with access to cloud-based resources between 2013 and 2015. This will require kids to have the mobile technology (tablets, netbooks) to download the resources they require for the length of time they require them.

[Humphrey Bear]

Don't be surprised if Vietnam soon outsmarts Thailand - each Vietnamese kid now reads an average of 50 books a year.

I live and work in Vietnam.

Although I am now living in Saigon, where education is of a high standard, I was living out in the boonies a couple of years ago.

The primary school kids would come up to me and say, in English, 'What's your name? How old are you? Where you from?' - and the older kids would be capable of holding a decent conversation with me. When I compare this to a similar area in Thailand - say Chaiyaphum - there is really no comparison to be made. The Vietnamese are still poorer, per capita, than the Thais, but in five years or so they will be a long way in front.

This country is booming and is an excellent investment opportunity. Thailand seems to discourage FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) with all it's complicated rules. VN helps you over each and every hurdle, removing some of those hurdles when they serve no purpose.

And now, with the Shinawatras back in power, the anti-farang elements will bloom again.

[Humphrey Bear]

Korea for one announced recently a move in this direction. The notion of the paperless classroom originated in the states many years ago. Maybe young kids need writing on paper as a part of the learning process but in the future they will be doing nearly all or even all of their writing on keyboards, touchscreens or even via talk to text software with very little actual writing. Communication is changing rapidly

Children need to have books around them.

My 2 1/2-year old gets read to every day, handles some of the basic alphabet books herself, repeats some of the words. She also respects my books and doesn't scribble all over them. (She does scribble on scrap paper a lot, though)

When she gets older she will gradually move from the passive 'being read to' to the active 'reading and writing' on her own. With transitional stages and plenty of help and encouragement. This will broaden her view of society far more than sitting passively in front of a screen, being spoon-fed one agenda.

Obviously my daughter will also have a computer for her schooling, and for entertainment. But I intend to encourage book learning, reading for pleasure and researching libraries as a way to discipline the mind.

[tominbkk]

Children need to have books around them.

My 2 1/2-year old gets read to every day, handles some of the basic alphabet books herself, repeats some of the words. She also respects my books and doesn't scribble all over them. (She does scribble on scrap paper a lot, though)

When she gets older she will gradually move from the passive 'being read to' to the active 'reading and writing' on her own. With transitional stages and plenty of help and encouragement. This will broaden her view of society far more than sitting passively in front of a screen, being spoon-fed one agenda.

Obviously my daughter will also have a computer for her schooling, and for entertainment. But I intend to encourage book learning, reading for pleasure and researching libraries as a way to discipline the mind.

At my school we have a very large fiction and non fiction library, and encourage as much free reading as possible. Quite a few of our older students have Kindles and are avid readers. The readers are always the most intelligent students.

Did I read somewhere that the average Thai person reads less than 10 lines of text a year?

[Galong]

My friend, do you really believe what the teachers tell you about how poor they are? If you do you are very naive. I have been a teacher in Thailand for 8 years in 3 different schools and teachers are not badly paid especially when you see what they do in a "working" day.

My last school was a private school where one of the teachers was being paid over 60,000 baht a month, 30,000 for his school work and another 30,000 for picking kids up in the school van. I haven't seen many poor teachers but I have seen a lot of lazy ones.

I don't care if you believe me or not. The fact of the matter is that I know these teachers, know where they live, know what they drive and have absolutely NO reason to doubt them, especially given the fact that most PUBLIC school teachers don't get a respectable salary.

This has absolutely nothing to do with private school or international schools where teachers are often paid more than they're worth. I work with dozens of international schools and know that they're often making ridiculous amounts of money with tons of perks.

I find it difficult to believe that a school would pay a driver 30,000 Baht to pick up kids in a van. Is the driver Thai? Why on earth would they pay him/her the same amount for a bit of driving that they do for being a teacher. I'm not an expert at math, but that doesn't add up.

[OzMick]

There is some truth to the populist charge that the traditional "elite" in Thailand have an interest in keeping a large, uneducated, underclass in place. However, there is also truth the Thaksinistas mostly rely on the votes of this same underclass. Not to mention their brutish, armed muscle in the form of the red shirts. So is it REALLY in their interest from a money/power base point of view (what else is there here?) to significantly educate and rise the underclass? Sure it is in their interest to put on a SHOW that's what they want.

That probably depends on what is needed in terms of workforce in the future. After all the traditional elites, new elites, Thaksinistas are all businesspeople. An upskilling of work force may be something that is needed

555555555, man, you are killing me! One of PTP's base policies is a hugely expensive support of the labour-intensive low-yield per capita rice industry. The cost of that support could reform the education system, but you don't need an education to grow rice, and that huge slab of population is their voter base. Keep them dumb, keep them poor and promise them miracles.

If employers wanted skilled workers, they know where to find them, in Bangkok.

In the smaller villages where I have spent some time, it is impossible to find a newspaper. Instead they have a loudspeaker system which cranks up around dawn and gives them their daily dose of propaganda. Clear and critical thought is about as common as the woolly mammoth.

An up-skilling of work force IS something that is needed, but you are not going to see it from this government because they are blowing the budget on crude populist policies that will inevitably cause more harm than good.

[Thaddeus]

Did I read somewhere that the average Thai person reads less than 10 lines of text a year?

The menu?

[Galong]

Did I read somewhere that the average Thai person reads less than 10 lines of text a year?

The menu?

Good one Thadeus, now I've got to clean what was the contents of my mouth off of my monitor

[Haiaphai]

First, the tablets bought will probably be some horrid pos from China that couldn't handle running much of anything, not something nice like a galaxy tab or ipad. Secondly, has anyone tried to write more than a post or e-mail on one? I hate having to edit things when I post on my ipod. Tablets are being bought left and right in the west and when I am in class I notice that students just use them to play instead of listening to a lecture. If 18- 23yr old kids can't handle it, why would anyone believe elementary kids will fare any better.

I am just going to stop there, don't want to repeat whats been said before. We all know the countless reasons as to why this is a horrid idea, we all have ideas on what really needs to be done. What we can do is hope that the ideas and thoughts in this article are held by people with power.

[oki]

US opinion

10 Reasons Not to Buy an iPad for Students

#1 It's Expensive

#2 It's Not the Best Solution for Note-Taking or Editing Documents

#3 It's Too Distracting

#4 It's Ultra-Portable and Ultra-Droppable

#5 What Makes it Desirable to your Kid is What Makes it Desirable to Criminals

#6 It's Meant for the Enjoyment of One Person, Which Means Social Seclusion

#7 Digital Text Books are a Marvel, but There's No Secondary Market

#8 It's a Status Symbol, Plain and Simple

#9 It'll Already be Old Technology by the Time You Buy It

#10 They'll Also Want a Laptop, Too

for more information and the link to the original source simple follow the below link;

http://finance.yahoo...-174406688.html

[Jingthing]

One Reason for PTP to provide tablets --

Buy a new generation of Thaksinista voters, for life ...

[Raesum]

Without the appropriate resources, there won't be any much changes in the quality of education. I think the only one change would be more children will be wearing spectacles at a younger age.

I don't know about the kids actually getting the spectacles. In my husbands family here they all squint to read or if there is a pair of glasses handy they pass those around to read or look at the photo etc.Only a very few own a pair of their own glasses.

The one thing about the tablets that surprised me was the fact that the Government would have to borrow the money to purchase them. I thought that seeing as Taksin said every child was going to get one that he was going to put on his red suit and white beard and say Ho Ho Ho- heres your tablets!!! I should know by now -T.I.T

[atyclb]

u cant polish a turd.

Actually theoretically if it were frozen at a very low temp you could polish it.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Salary completely wrong, Starting pay for a Teacher is about 6000 baht, (for a 21 year old) it goes up every year and includes a guaranteed pension for life. My ex head of English was on 40,000 baht with most teachers on 25,000 or more. This was in a Government school in Bangkok. Don't believe all of the Thai teachers poverty stories because they are usually not true.

Unfortunately everything is true. in Bangkok salaries are higher than in Issan. 25,000 TBT is the salary of one top lecturer with management functions in plus of teaching in an Issan University.

The discrepancy between Bangkok and the Northern rural is a shame. Class of 40/50 students, teacher salaries below 10,000TBt is the real Issan world to be added one hour and half of truck morning and evening for some students....a shame

[Businessman]

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Aren't all teachers university graduates? Then their salaries will triple this year under the 15k minimum salary promises of the PT.

[thequietman]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

:clap2: :clap2:

[AngelofDeath]

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Aren't all teachers university graduates? Then their salaries will triple this year under the 15k minimum salary promises of the PT.

I thought it only applies to the new batches of graduates? If what you said is true, I think we should have seen a bigger outcry than the 300bt minimum wages.

[thequietman]

They have both mentioned that their teachers union representative told them the new 15,000 starting salary will not be applicable to new teachers (they know it won't be applicable to those already in service) because of some complex regulation which puts teachers into a different category

explain please. if not applicable to new teachers and not for those already in service, then for who ?

[noahvail]

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Aren't all teachers university graduates? Then their salaries will triple this year under the 15k minimum salary promises of the PT.

I thought it only applies to the new batches of graduates? If what you said is true, I think we should have seen a bigger outcry than the 300bt minimum wages.

Only applies to new graduates who work for the government (as of the last change of plan). Unfortunately, teachers have been told that contrary to their belief, they are not part of the government, so it doesn't apply to teachers.

That's according to the teachers I've talked to here in Issan - and they are NOT happy.

[theanimaster]

Not one of us here with a quarter of a brain would have thought this would ever work.

What does this say about Thais who voted The Reds in on these gimmicky promises?

[thequietman]

I can't see my 8 year old niece struggling home with it in her school bag every day. If it's not stolen by some teenager, her older brother will probably 'borrow' it.

Or Thailand will become the largest importer of new tablets one month, and the largest exporter of used ones the next.

The basics would be nice first. Smaller class sizes, better resourced classrooms (electronic white boards for example, i know, "How 1990's!"), better paid teachers (at entry level to attract quality people into the profession) and greater scrutiny of how resources allocated to schools are expended.

And tablets are still basically "toys". Most people have a proper PC and a tablet for playing with.

Thailand - the hub of tablets.

[Jingthing]

Not one of us here with a quarter of a brain would have thought this would ever work.

What does this say about Thais who voted The Reds in on these gimmicky promises?

It says that fast free stuff is highly valued.

[KhunBJ]

Agree that tablets won't revolutionize the education system, but I don't think it will make it worse either ...

The Thai curriculum and teaching methods need to be updated and reflect the 21st century , that would require some subjects where rote learning is required to be substituted with more useful subjects but that is not going to happen anytime soon as it will the require the society to change....I don't recall any drastic changes in the Thai curriculum under AV either .

I have seen these book reading statistics before and I somehow doubt that kids anywhere should be reading more than 1 book pr week ... don't think so ... but yes reading books is important ....depending on what kind of books it is of course. ..;-)

[tominbkk]

First, the tablets bought will probably be some horrid pos from China that couldn't handle running much of anything, not something nice like a galaxy tab or ipad. Secondly, has anyone tried to write more than a post or e-mail on one? I hate having to edit things when I post on my ipod. Tablets are being bought left and right in the west and when I am in class I notice that students just use them to play instead of listening to a lecture. If 18- 23yr old kids can't handle it, why would anyone believe elementary kids will fare any better.

Actually I am very fast at typing and taking notes on my iPad, I use the 'Pages' app. I have a wireless keyboard but hardly ever remember to bring it anywhere. I can type on the pad pretty much as fast as everyone else is doing on their putes. You just have to practice at it a few weeks, but your fingers make the adjustments necessary. For final editing I often send it over to the desk or laptop, but in a pinch I can easily make a very nice looking document just with the iPad.

Kids are not listening to the lectures probably because they are irrelevant and possibly quite boring. I went to uni well before laptops, and in my boring classes managed to slough off, using paper and pencil! Teachers that inspired me or kept things energetic or controversial were the classes that I (and everyone else around me) paid attention to.

[maidu]

Suggestions for better way to improve education of Thai students:

>>> Smaller class sizes. 50+ per class is waaaaaay too many.

>>> Don't demand new books every year. It's great for the book printers, but is expensive for poor students, and compels many to skip going to school. Re-cycle.

>>> Don't require new uniforms and shoes each year, unless schools can compensate poorer families. Yet another reason why many poor kids don't go to school.

>>> Instigate a means test for older teachers. If they don't pass, they have to leave, and make way for younger teachers.

>>> More phys.Ed. Currently, Thai schools are only required to offer about 1 hour per week. Pitiful.

>>> More art, music, and creative endeavors

>>> Field trips to places other than religious and royal sites. Suggest: Environmental awareness sites. Currently, Thai children have scant little exposure to environmental issues and challenges.

>>> Better libraries. The only public library in my town of Chiang Rai has few books. If Thai schools are similar, it's a sad state of affairs. Thai students read an average of 5 books per year (and four of those are probably thin little comic books). School children from other parts of Asia read dozens per year.

The tablet computer giveaway was devised purely to gain votes, and it worked. The tablets will either be sold, traded, lost or used for simplistic gaming. and a few Thais will make millions on the deal, and they'll be connected to Peua Thai party. Mark my words.