Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[maxme]

The investors are fleeing but not only from Phuket but from whole of Thailand. Ever since the 49% ownership scheme came in, LOS started to drop investors rapidly.

With neither law enforcement nor integrity involved, it's just not worth creating business here. Hopefully that will change...

[Peterocket]

Yes, wine is expensive in Thailand. But I'm not so sure cheese is much more expensive than the Uk. Last time I was in Uk (many years ago) cheese was also very expensive. I can buy Brie (Aussie) in Villa for 110 baht/100 grams, last time is was in the Deli in Patong (a while back as car parking is impossible) I bought a strong Cheddar for about 35 baht/100 grams. Best buys are at the service counters, but you have to really check out the prices. Worst buys are prepackaged on the shelves. Can pay double and much more.

When I was in California last month I bought Cambozola cheese for about 990 ฿/kg. At Villa it's about 1,800 ฿/kg. It's made in Germany. Cheddar is about twice the price here too. I guess the UK taxes imports pretty high as well? And wine is at about three times more expensive here...

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

[Old Croc]

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

In recent years, in Australia, it's been possible to buy very drinkable cleanskins for less than $3 a bottle (under 100bht).

They taste better than an Australian chardoney I struggled to get down at Dijiit Resort recently at 1200 bht a bottle!

[snamos]

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

In recent years, in Australia, it's been possible to buy very drinkable cleanskins for less than $3 a bottle (under 100bht).

They taste better than an Australian chardoney I struggled to get down at Dijiit Resort recently at 1200 bht a bottle!

even a half decent 4 liter chateau a la cardboard would be around $10- $15

[grumpyoldman]

The OP has stated his negatives "Reasons For Leaving" in 13 bullet points of which two I can only agree with, driving habits and dishonesty. The rest seem nebulous or personal. For sure "filthy Thailand" is subjective.

His positives "Reasons For Staying"....NONE !!! That's why early on I posted what took you so long, yeesh, there's the airport, beat it already.

So you pretty much agree with me then.

Wouldn't know, for lengthy reading I tend to go with accomplished authors.

[Old Croc]

:lol:

[Jimi007]

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

They make a lot of wine in California and some is very cheap! You can buy Chardonnay, Cabernet, Merlot, etc. for as little as $2 US, 60฿. The winery I have liked for decades has bottles on sale for 150 to 180 ฿ at the low end and around 750 ฿ for estate bottles.

[madmitch]

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

Supermarkets in England have some great deals: 3 bottles of perfectly good wine for £10 at ASDA for example, several half price offers, BOGOFs. The alcohol control act in Thailand now forbids special offers of this nature on alcoholic beverages; TOPs used to have these offers.

When I first tried the Montclair Shiraz, I was quite impressed. Since those early days the taste has deteriorated; probably using an inferior grape. It is now just about drinkable and that is £6 a bottle for something I would use for cooking in England.

This thread about returning to England seems to be well off topic now! And the quality of wine wasn't even mentioned in the OPs reasons for leaving!

[F1fanatic]

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

Ummm, no. Ten pounds would buy you a pretty good bottle of wine in England, here it buys you the cheapest rubbish, generally. There are a few noble exceptions.

[Peterocket]

A half decent wine in the UK is about 10quid or 500 baht....there are tons of wines here for that price many of which are quite drinkable. Yesterday my Mrs brought an Australian Chardonnay back from one of the smaller super cheap stores and it cost 270 baht. Isn't that the same price if not less than it would cost abroad?

Ummm, no. Ten pounds would buy you a pretty good bottle of wine in England, here it buys you the cheapest rubbish, generally. There are a few noble exceptions.

So you are saying that there are some half decent wines available in Phuket for 500 baht (some cheaper) and decent wine in the UK ranges from 300-500 baht. Its not exactly a massive difference. The wine on the 3 for 10 quid offers taste like it is straight out of a Klong.

Not exactly a reason to fly 'home'...not even worth mentioning it being an issue in Phuket to be honest. I would be more annoyed paying 350 baht for a Pad Thai in the UK than I would an extra 150 baht for a bottle of wine here.

[F1fanatic]

Yes, you can find a couple of decent wines here for 500 baht, but most at that price range are undrinkable - its trial and error. In England you're reasonably safe that a 10 pound bottle of wine is going to be drinkable.

To be assured that an unknown bottle of wine here is going to be drinkable, you need to spend twice that amount.

But, as a previous poster pointed out, this is just a minor downside to living here.

Incidentally does anyone know why good Aussie wine is more expensive here than in the UK?

[snamos]

Yes, you can find a couple of decent wines here for 500 baht, but most at that price range are undrinkable - its trial and error. In England you're reasonably safe that a 10 pound bottle of wine is going to be drinkable.

To be assured that an unknown bottle of wine here is going to be drinkable, you need to spend twice that amount.

But, as a previous poster pointed out, this is just a minor downside to living here.

Incidentally does anyone know why good Aussie wine is more expensive here than in the UK?

Thailand has a huge tax on imported wines so it there is no competition with their own industry.

[BangTaoBoy]

You say you, "are happy to accept Phuket isn't perfect" - I've given you a list of some of my negatives. What are some of the "imperfections" for you, living on Phuket, no matter how minor?

I'll have a think about it and back to you.

Sorry, I did my best, but I can't think of anything. Or should that be It's hard to know around here some times.

On a day to day basis, there is nothing that winds me up, pisses me off, gets me down, or even irritates me about Phuket. The only thing I can think of (and it was a struggle) that I would love Phuket to have (and would even go as far as saying it could be a good money spinner) is a large indoor activity type place like funarium in BKK. We make use of the little ones in Tesco and Big C but a proper one, for those days when the weather is too hot to do anything outside, would be great. That and a few more playgrounds. I don't know what other countries are like, but in the UK you are really spoilt for playgrounds every half a mile or so.

The OP wasn't happy with his LIFE, and he blames Phuket for that. If I lived in Pak Lok and had to go to work every day, I would have the hump as well, and I wouldn't like my life. But that wouldn't have anything to do with Phuket. If the OP lived somewhere that had lots of facilities instead of absolutely nothing, and was a man of leisure instead of having to go to work every day, do you think the things on that list would have affected him so badly? I don't.

If you did a survey of all the people that have become disenchanted with Phuket over the years, I bet a huge percentage would fall in to the category of people that didn't have a huge amount of money, and had to work for a living, in a fairly low paid job. Is Phuket ideal for people in that category? Probably not. That's why it's important to know a place is right for you before you commit to it, and when it turns out you got it wrong and a place isn't for you, just move somewhere else, no need for bitter grudges.

I'm rambling a bit now, I just wanted to make the post long enough so that GOM can pretend that he didn't read it.

[BangTaoBoy]

So you are saying that there are some half decent wines available in Phuket for 500 baht (some cheaper) and decent wine in the UK ranges from 300-500 baht. Its not exactly a massive difference. The wine on the 3 for 10 quid offers taste like it is straight out of a Klong.

Not exactly a reason to fly 'home'...not even worth mentioning it being an issue in Phuket to be honest. I would be more annoyed paying 350 baht for a Pad Thai in the UK than I would an extra 150 baht for a bottle of wine here.

Well said.

It pretty much sums it up for me. A discussion about the bad things in Phuket, has resulted in one of the worst things being a couple of quid extra for a bottle of wine.

Like I said before, we can all throw words like corruption, and dishonesty and polution about all day long. When people are actually asked what affects them personally, it's a different kettle of fish.

Moaning for the sake of moaning.

[F1fanatic]

So you are saying that there are some half decent wines available in Phuket for 500 baht (some cheaper) and decent wine in the UK ranges from 300-500 baht. Its not exactly a massive difference. The wine on the 3 for 10 quid offers taste like it is straight out of a Klong.

Not exactly a reason to fly 'home'...not even worth mentioning it being an issue in Phuket to be honest. I would be more annoyed paying 350 baht for a Pad Thai in the UK than I would an extra 150 baht for a bottle of wine here.

Well said.

It pretty much sums it up for me. A discussion about the bad things in Phuket, has resulted in one of the worst things being a couple of quid extra for a bottle of wine.

Like I said before, we can all throw words like corruption, and dishonesty and polution about all day long. When people are actually asked what affects them personally, it's a different kettle of fish.

Moaning for the sake of moaning.

Did I miss something??? Somehow I managed to not see the posts that said the price of wine was one of the worst things about living on Phuket. I did however see a poster mention that wine was expensive here and some discussion on that topic.

There have been a few posts detailing the 'downside' to Phuket but obviously they were wrong. You have proven that there are no drawbacks.

[BangTaoBoy]

Did I miss something??? Somehow I managed to not see the posts that said the price of wine was one of the worst things about living on Phuket. I did however see a poster mention that wine was expensive here and some discussion on that topic.

There have been a few posts detailing the 'downside' to Phuket but obviously they were wrong. You have proven that there are no drawbacks.

Everybody has had the chance to discuss how corruption, greed, dishonesty etc etc, affects their daily lives on Phuket, but they chose to talk about the cost of wine instead.

Why not shut me up with a solid arguement, and give me examples of how these things affect you. So far, the worst example you've given is a change in car park policy at a shopping plaza.

I haven't proven there are no drawbacks, I have proven their are no drawbacks for me. People aren't as forth coming proving what the drawback are for them though. Tell me, how does corruption and dishonest Thais affect your life in Phuket?

[F1fanatic]

Did I miss something??? Somehow I managed to not see the posts that said the price of wine was one of the worst things about living on Phuket. I did however see a poster mention that wine was expensive here and some discussion on that topic.

There have been a few posts detailing the 'downside' to Phuket but obviously they were wrong. You have proven that there are no drawbacks.

Everybody has had the chance to discuss how corruption, greed, dishonesty etc etc, affects their daily lives on Phuket, but they chose to talk about the cost of wine instead.

Why not shut me up with a solid arguement, and give me examples of how these things affect you. So far, the worst example you've given is a change in car park policy at a shopping plaza.

I haven't proven there are no drawbacks, I have proven their are no drawbacks for me. People aren't as forth coming proving what the drawback are for them though. Tell me, how does corruption and dishonest Thais affect your life in Phuket?

OK, I'll repeat my earlier post -

"I think the worst thing is never trusting anybody unless I have known them for a long time and know them v well.

Unfortunately even local suppliers/workmen that I used to use regularly as they charged a fair price (I think!), instead of being grateful for the custom - started to charge far more as time went on...... So now I have to find new suppliers/workmen when I want anything done. As this is difficult, I do as much as I can myself - when I would far rather pay a local a fair price.

Having to watch the petrol meter every time I go for petrol is another inconvenience.

Realising that when I have internet problems my supplier will just 'hope the problem will go away' is another annoyance.

The awful TV programmes available is a minor inconvenience, but still an inconvenience.

Not having decent water on tap but having to buy bottled water is another."

[Peterocket]

Did I miss something??? Somehow I managed to not see the posts that said the price of wine was one of the worst things about living on Phuket. I did however see a poster mention that wine was expensive here and some discussion on that topic.

There have been a few posts detailing the 'downside' to Phuket but obviously they were wrong. You have proven that there are no drawbacks.

Everybody has had the chance to discuss how corruption, greed, dishonesty etc etc, affects their daily lives on Phuket, but they chose to talk about the cost of wine instead.

Why not shut me up with a solid arguement, and give me examples of how these things affect you. So far, the worst example you've given is a change in car park policy at a shopping plaza.

I haven't proven there are no drawbacks, I have proven their are no drawbacks for me. People aren't as forth coming proving what the drawback are for them though. Tell me, how does corruption and dishonest Thais affect your life in Phuket?

I could probably think of more times that dishonest Thais and corruption has benefited me than i could the opposite. In the UK however I couldnt think of any time dishonest workmen or currupt politicians etc ever benefited me.

The other day whilst obtaining a company quote I was asked" would you like the high quote or the low one" I laughed and said "the low one please."

[KarenBravo]

I could probably think of more times that dishonest Thais and corruption has benefited me than i could the opposite.

Hey! That's a fantastic reason that the corrupt could use, too.

Viva le graft!

[Peterocket]

I could probably think of more times that dishonest Thais and corruption has benefited me than i could the opposite.

Hey! That's a fantastic reason that the corrupt could use, too.

Viva le graft!

Exactly everyone's a winner!

[NamKangMan]

Did I miss something??? Somehow I managed to not see the posts that said the price of wine was one of the worst things about living on Phuket. I did however see a poster mention that wine was expensive here and some discussion on that topic.

There have been a few posts detailing the 'downside' to Phuket but obviously they were wrong. You have proven that there are no drawbacks.

Everybody has had the chance to discuss how corruption, greed, dishonesty etc etc, affects their daily lives on Phuket, but they chose to talk about the cost of wine instead.

Why not shut me up with a solid arguement, and give me examples of how these things affect you. So far, the worst example you've given is a change in car park policy at a shopping plaza.

I haven't proven there are no drawbacks, I have proven their are no drawbacks for me. People aren't as forth coming proving what the drawback are for them though. Tell me, how does corruption and dishonest Thais affect your life in Phuket?

This thread was not just discussing corruption, greed and dishonesty. You were. I was simply stating, as others have, their own personal negatives for day to day living here on Phuket. Most have agreed that their own negatives are not enough to make them move away.

The OP kicked it off with his list and stated that's why he was leaving. You asked me to list a few things, and how they effected me, and I did. I named lack of transport - the tuk tuk cartel. That problem most likely exists due to corruption, but, I don't care why it exists, it just exists here. I then mentioned the high tax on wine and cheese. No corruption there, just Government policy, although, greed could play a part. Some of the negatives here aren't dark and sinister like corruption, greed and dishonesty - some are just lack of law and order, or infastructure or Government policy. Like one member posted, a negative for them is not being able to fill a glass with water from the tap and drink it. They have to cart bottled water. Everyone has their own "drawbacks" personal to themselves.

Edited August 19, 2011 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

Post removed under Thaivisa rule 8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

[BangTaoBoy]

I could probably think of more times that dishonest Thais and corruption has benefited me than i could the opposite.

Hey! That's a fantastic reason that the corrupt could use, too.

Viva le graft!

Exactly everyone's a winner!

Good point. It makes me laugh when people come on here and start complaining about the BIB for example, saying how low and corrupt they are. Five minutes later they're flying down the road, after having a few beers, on a bike they aren't legal or have sufficient experience to ride. When they get pulled over, it's a ticket for a few quid and they're on their way to the next bar. You don't hear them saying, 'No officer, I insist you breathalise me, arrest me, and ban me from riding a bike illegaly again' do you. Extreme hypocrisy.

[BangTaoBoy]

This thread was not just discussing corruption, greed and dishonesty. You were. I was simply stating, as others have, their own personal negatives for day to day living here on Phuket. Most have agreed that their own negatives are not enough to make them move away.

Several people agreed with the OP's list which contained those things. I'm waiting to hear from someone who can give me examples of how the things on the OP's list affect them on a daily basis. When they can't do this, it high lights my theory that the OP wasn't an accurate representation of Phuket, but a biased rant from someone who had been unhappy with his life on Phuket for a long time.

People always throw words like corruption and dishonest Thais around on this forum, and for the best part I believe it's hot air. People just jumping on a negative band wagon for the sake of it. This theory is some what proven, when people start to list their annoyances and they are things as horrendous as having to drink bottled water and not liking the TV programmes. Some what tamer the than the OP's list, which many people agreed with wouldn't you say.

[BangTaoBoy]

OK, I'll repeat my earlier post -

"I think the worst thing is never trusting anybody unless I have known them for a long time and know them v well.

Is that any different to anywhere else in the world? I treat people here exactly as I would in England, and I get exactly the same results. Same percentage of people who are decent, and ones I don't care too much for. I don't see how that's relevent to Phuket. I think it says more about your opinion of Thais, than it does about how Thai people are. Wasn't it you who was quoted as saying something like, you didn't want anything to do wih Thai woman who had Farang husbands? It seems your lack of trust for Thai people, eminates from yourself, not their behaviour.

Unfortunately even local suppliers/workmen that I used to use regularly as they charged a fair price (I think!), instead of being grateful for the custom - started to charge far more as time went on...... So now I have to find new suppliers/workmen when I want anything done. As this is difficult, I do as much as I can myself - when I would far rather pay a local a fair price.

But for everyone with a story like that, there will be tens of people who haven't had those problems with workmen, so again it isn't a Phuket problem, it's a you problem. That's the difference that people refuse to acknowledge. Problems YOU have can't necessarily be blamed on PHUKET.

Having to watch the petrol meter every time I go for petrol is another inconvenience.

That's another exaggerated phenomenon that started on this forum as far as I'm comcerned. It isn't all garages that have had problems with this at all. It undoubtedly happens, but it isn't something that happens more times than it doesn't, not even close. Yet that's how it's portrayed on here. Go to a garage where you've never had the problem before. Subconsiously you should know how many miles you do before you need to fill up again, so it shouldn't be too hard to notice if a new member of staff has started being a naughty boy. I do not believe you need to check every time, and even if you did, It wouldn't come close to being an annoyance to me.

Realising that when I have internet problems my supplier will just 'hope the problem will go away' is another annoyance.

The awful TV programmes available is a minor inconvenience, but still an inconvenience.

Not having decent water on tap but having to buy bottled water is another."

These things are so badly clutching at straws, I honestly don't think they are worthy of comment. When you consider some of the things that were on the OP's list, which several people agreed with, and we end up wit examples like that. Says it all really.

[BangTaoBoy]

On the contrary, I think the OP is realistic and Phuket just isn't what it used to be or what it holds itself out to be.

Posts like this. Why can't they offer an accurate insight as to how the things on the OP's list affect them in REAL terms, not hot air terms?

[BangTaoBoy]

Good post GK.

And this one, which was agreeing with the comment I quoted above. Examples please Lancelot.

[NamKangMan]

This thread was not just discussing corruption, greed and dishonesty. You were. I was simply stating, as others have, their own personal negatives for day to day living here on Phuket. Most have agreed that their own negatives are not enough to make them move away.

Several people agreed with the OP's list which contained those things. I'm waiting to hear from someone who can give me examples of how the things on the OP's list affect them on a daily basis. When they can't do this, it high lights my theory that the OP wasn't an accurate representation of Phuket, but a biased rant from someone who had been unhappy with his life on Phuket for a long time.

People always throw words like corruption and dishonest Thais around on this forum, and for the best part I believe it's hot air. People just jumping on a negative band wagon for the sake of it. This theory is some what proven, when people start to list their annoyances and they are things as horrendous as having to drink bottled water and not liking the TV programmes. Some what tamer the than the OP's list, which many people agreed with wouldn't you say.

Well, I addressed these things in a post a while ago, as per your request. You commented on them. You then went onto say, words to the effect, "the imperfections of Phuket etc" - so, it would appear that you agree there are some "negatives" or "imperfections" or "drawbacks" to living here on a daily basis. No one is whinging or moaning or ranting about it, they are just saying they exist and it effects them, but not enough to move away. You never answered my question, "Where can I buy marmite on Phuket?" :)

[BangTaoBoy]

OP, I fully agree with your list of reasons to leave,

And another.

[NamKangMan]

OP, I fully agree with your list of reasons to leave,

And another.

Fair call. I can only speak for myself - and I have done so.