What Rate Will I Get?

[smacko]

Hi,

Heading off to Thailand on Sunday and I'm trying to decide whether I should bring cash or use my credit (for either ATM or over the counter withdraws).

Normally I bring cash, change it and deposit it into the wife's local bank account.

However I now have a Australian MasterCard (from 28degrees) that has zero international fees and no cash advance fees.

So the card can be loaded with cash and the only fee I should pay is the local 150bht (which can be avoided via cover the counter withdraws i believe).

The question is what rate will I get for ATM and cover the counter withdraws?

will it be the MasterCard rate? (which I believe isn't so great, because its first converted from THB to USD to AUD)

Or will I get the TT rate from the Thailand bank I'm making the withdraw from?

thanks

smacko

[expatman]

Bring cash - you always get a bttter exchange rate than for credit cards.

You could also do a wire transfer, for which exchange rate is slightly better than cash, but this would be offset by the wire transfer fee, so it depends on how much money you're talking about,

[smacko]

the TT rate which atm's give is better then cash, i'm just not sure if i'll get the TT rate or the mastercard rate

[aurelius]

Using a Mastercard at an ATM which accepts MasterCards will cost you the MasterCard rate plus whatever your card issuer charges. Bank TT rate is nothing to do with it at all. Plus the 150bt international card fee which is charged at thai bank ATM's (but not at AEON atms)

[SantiSuk]

Bring cash - you always get a bttter exchange rate than for credit cards.

You could also do a wire transfer, for which exchange rate is slightly better than cash, but this would be offset by the wire transfer fee, so it depends on how much money you're talking about,

Unless you change cash at the airport which is always at least 2% worse than the kind of street bank bureau rate you will get around Bangkok if you visit a few (to make sure you are just not hitting on a bad one). Lately I've noticed the airport rate is slipping even further - 3% worse than the street - against the £ sterling that is but I'm sure it applies to other currencies

[xen]

I too have a 28 degrees Mastercard and what they told me is that the rate is the one that is posted on XE .com XE.com . They may mean when you use it for purchases tho. I have not used it for cash withdrawals as i also bring cash too after having an bad experience with Travelex Travel cards.

[Pib]

Go the the Mastercard Exchange Rate web page at: Link Enter the AUD as the base currency and then a list will appear showing you the exchange rate. This is the rate you will get; HOWEVER, BUT, most cards have associated "foreign transaction fee(s) in the 1 to 5% range...these fees are charged by the bank that issued you your card (not the ATM). Look at the disclosure for the card on your bank's web site or give them a call. When these fees are added in you are effectively getting a lower exchange rate because a higher AUD charge hits your account when adding in the fees. Now if you are lucky and have a 0% foreign transaction fee card, then just look at the rate reflected on the Mastercard site....no more addition or subtraction to do to see what your effective exchange rate it other than maybe the fee Thai bank ATMs charge when using a foreign card.

Thai bank ATMs charge a 150 baht fee for use of a foreign card...this is displayed on the ATM screen/receipt. So, this 150 baht charge (or appox 5 AUD) will be a charge hitting your Ozzie bank account. However, if you use an AEON ATM (which is a Japanese company) there is no 150 baht fee. Try to use one of these AEON ATMs if possible....they are mostly in the bigger cities and located in some shopping malls. You can google the AEON web site to find the locations.

Also, the TT (teletransfer) rate is not used as ATM rates; the TT rate is used for TT transfers of money like using SWIFT transfers. One more also, DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT accept a Direct Currency Conversion (DDC) if the ATM asks you if you want to use DDC as this will end up giving you a 2 to 4% lower exchange rate plus you still get hit with your home country's foreign transaction fees. DDC bad, very bad, never accept in a ATM/Debit/Credit card transaction whether it's a point of sale for merchandise or withdrawal of money.

Summary: look at the Mastercard web site and find out what your bank's foreign transaction fees are. Have a good trip.

P.S. Above applies to Visa ATM/Debit/Credit cards also except Visa usually gives a little better exchange rate than Mastercard. Visa exchange rate page is at Link.

[JimGant]

However I now have a Australian MasterCard (from 28degrees) that has zero international fees and no cash advance fees.

So the card can be loaded with cash and the only fee I should pay is the local 150bht

That's interesting. I've heard of carrying a credit balance with one's credit card, in order to avoid paying interest the second the cash is dispensed. But I'd also heard they still charged the cash advance fee.

You apparently have the best of both worlds -- all the functionality of getting cash that a debit/ATM card has -- plus the safety of a credit card (i.e., your bank account can't be fraudulently cleaned-out).

With Aeon, and no foreign transaction fees, you should realize an FX rate slightly less than the TT rate (by about 6 satang).

Just out of curiosity -- anyone -- what option do you press on the ATM machine? Is their a "credit card" option? I've only paid attention to the "current account" or "savings account" options.

[JimGant]

However I now have a Australian MasterCard (from 28degrees) that has zero international fees

Just make sure that in the very fine print, and in parenthesis, it doesn't say "(MasterCard however, does charge 1%, which we pass on to you)"

Which covers their butt when they say they don't charge foreign transaction fees.

[smacko]

i believe if you put the card into credit your money is not insurance if fraud occurs, so its best to only bpay the amount you plan to withdraw

no fine print, i've used the card for many US purchased and no extra charges.

i guess the main question is, whether the mastercard rate to better or worse then cash rate...

[Pib]

From looking at the 28 Degrees Mastercard web site I didn't see where it was "loaded with cash" like the member decides how much money to load against the card; I did see where it comes with a credit limit like any other credit card. Maybe I read it too fast.

The site does say no foreign transaction fees. The only thing is for a money withdrawal you are charged interest (20.99%/year) from date of withdrawal, but for purchases there is a interest grace period.

Basically the credit card sounds like a no fee debit card. But unlike a debit card where no interest is charged for withdrawing money from your bank account, when withdrawing money (i.e., a cash advance) using the credit card, a 20.99% annual interest rate immediately begins ticking with no grace period which is pretty standard for all credit cards.

Let's say you withdraw 1000AUD from an ATM and pay it off 30 days later when the credit card bill arrives....that 1000AUD withdrawal at a 21% annual interest would cost you approx 17.5AUD/month or said another way approx 1.75% of the withdrawal amount....if you don't pay it off in full at the end of the month, the interest due keeping on ticking and ends up being higher than 1.75%

28 Degrees Mastercard web site: http://www.28degrees...m.au/index.html

[JimGant]

With Aeon, and no foreign transaction fees, you should realize an FX rate slightly less than the TT rate (by about 6 satang).

I was curious, so I crunched numbers -- for the period 18 July thru 5 Aug. The average Bank of Thailand TT buying rate was 31.95 baht for 1 AUD. The advertised MasterCard rates from their website averaged 31.83. So, about a 12 satang difference.

[JimGant]

But unlike a debit card where no interest is charged for withdrawing money from your bank account, when withdrawing money (i.e., a cash advance) using the credit card, a 20.99% annual interest rate immediately begins ticking with no grace period which is pretty standard for all credit cards.

Pib, the OP indicated: "the card can be loaded with cash...." I've heard of people doing this, i.e., overpaying their credit card by an amount equal to or more than what they intend for cash advances. And, since it's their money that's being 'cash advanced,' there shouldn't be any interest due. However, as I said, the credit card companies, in this situation, normally *do* still charge a 'cash advance fee.' This card company apparently does not. So, it's sounds good......'til Google found this:

We were told when applying for the cards we could load our own money onto the card and with such a minimal credit limit, that seemed a good idea. But not so, if you put the card in credit, this will activate a fraud alert and the card will be frozen.

Never have I heard so many different stories from one company for the one product, which all conflict. Different staff, different story.

Out of sheer frustration I cancelled the cards and recommend you steer very clear of the 28 Degree Mastercard.

Hmmmm.

[JimGant]

i guess the main question is, whether the mastercard rate to better or worse then cash rate...

I've never exchanged cash in Thailand, but Super Rich seems to have the edge for the best deals. At 3:40pm today, SR's rate was at 30.65, while SCB's TT rate was 30.46 at about the same time (SCB's site is the only bank site I've found that adjusts its rates during the day). So, I guess, if you wanted the inconvenience of going to SR, with a wad of cash -- and their advertised rates are kosher -- then, sounds good.

http://www.superrichthailand.com/editor/rate.html

http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/history_exchange.jsp?period=15:27:33&year=2011&JobStart=11/08/2011&cur_all=All&fPage=index

Also, if you Swift money to your wife's bank account, for 10000 AUDs you would beat the MC rate if the Swift fee were no more than 20 AUDs. This also assumes her bank charges the .0025 fee, or no more than 500 baht.

[smacko]

past 3 trip i've just used cash and superich, probably just stick with doing that..

as for the 28 degrees card, had no issues in bali last year loading the card and doing cash advances at the ATM's... but as i said before dont load it will all your spending money just bpay to it as you go.. normally only takes 24hours to get there.

[Gonsalviz]

Only costs me $25 USD for a bank transfer. I have a few accounts in my name I can transfer to. Pretty much alleviates the ATM or CC charges.

[Pib]

Getting a Visa debt card with 0% foreign transaction fee and withdrawing from an AEON ATM is the cheapest way to go (i.e., no charges at all), plus the Visa exchange rate comes out to basically the same as the TT Buying rate plus or minus a few stang....no ACH/SWIFT/wire transfer fees by the home country bank...no ACH/SWIFT/wire funds receipt/conversion fees by the Thai/receiving bank, no ATM fees like the Thai bank 150 baht fee on foreign cards....and you have the money immediately in hand versus waiting for a transfer to come through.

For those who live in Thailand or travel overseas, switching to a bank that provides a Visa 0% foreign transaction fee debit card is the way to go....a Mastercard 0% foreign transaction fee debit card is good also but usually gives just a little lower exchange rate than Visa.