German Man Still In ICU After Dispute With Phuket Tuk-Tuk Driver

[FaxFlora]

Many many years ago, while living in Bangkok for 12 years I got in a dispute over the fare with motorcylce guy that had stopped where I was standing and asked where I was going.

I told him where I was going and I stated the price in Thai language and he agreed.

When we got there he doubled the price on me and I refused to pay.

I stood there and offered him the fare that I had stated and the fare that he had agreed upon.

He would not take the money that we had agreed upon and then got off his bike and confronted me demanding double the fare.

I tried to pay him the agreed fare and he would not take it while demanding the double fare price.

I said take it or leave it and he refused to take it.

I tried to walk away from him and his nonsense but he "Blocked" me with his arm.

I told him again I was not going to pay him and tried to put the money in his hand but he would not take it and kept demanding the double fare.

I told him once again I would not pay the doble fare and asked him if he wanted the agreed fare or not.

He kept demanding the double fare and then told me that was the fare I had previously agreed upon with him.

I corrected him and told him I had offered a price and he had agreed.

In Thai langauge I repeated myself and told him I would not pay the double fare price.

I then told him again I would pay him the agreed fare, take it or leave it, as I had to go.

He would not take the money.

I then tried to move around him again and he raised his elbow in my face and put his other hand on my chest and forcefully blocked me while making the Thai Boxing "elbow to the face gesture " clearly demonstrating that he was going to THAI BOX my face if I did not pay him.

Well Folks...I just lost it right then and there.

I proceeded to beat the crap out of the guy right then and there on the side walk on Silom Road in broad daylight in front of a bank building in 1998

He totally did not expect that to happen and I was surprised how easy it was for me to grab this guy and manhandle him and throw him around and beat him to the ground and left him stunned, lying on the ground.

I do not care what any other person has to say about that incident and what I should have done or not should have done in their opinion.

Criticise all you want...I dont care.

But on that particular day all the 12 years of Thai bullshit frustrations and the many times I had been cheated here and there by Thai people just boiled over and I lost it with that motorcylce guy when he put his hand on me and threatened to "Thai Box " my face.

After I had beat him I then put the money that he had demanded on the seat of his motorcylcle while screaming at him and saying: "Are you satisfied now" " Are you happy now you silly XXXXXX."

I paid him the money for the satisfaction of beating him up and for being the A Hole that we was and acting the way that he did thinking he could try to extort the money from me while threatening to box my face as if he was some sort of professional Thai Boxer.

I had hurt the guy real good and he was bleeding from the mouth and his lip was all swollen and he was totally dazed.

I just walked away and went into the building I was going to anyhow thinking I should not have done that and I had over reacted and should have just paid him.

I was feeling sorry for him.

But then again I thought: "Why should I let anyone cheat me like that while he is threatening to assault me.???

I had never had anything quite like that happen to me in 12 years of living in Bangkok and never since but I still wonder why the Thai man thought he could do what he tried to do and not simply except the money we had agreed upon.

Even if he had mistakenly agreed or did not understand what I had said in Thai langauge he could have accepted the money and moved on.

But no..he thought he could get more money out of me because I was a farang.

There are plenty of Thai people out there that can ruin your day if you happen to connect with them some how and in some way.

They come with an attitude and they can be stupidly stubborn and small minded.

That guy in particular, on that day was mistaken when he thought he could get some easy money from a farang.

cool story internet tough guy

[JohnAllan]

Typically Thai: attack in a mob . . . then, make a run for it.

And I know tuk tuks in Phuket are stupidly overpriced, and refuse, on the now very rare occasions I can be bothered with visiting Phuket, to take one. But it is normal to establish the fare BEFORE you get in. That said, where the hell did the taxi association get the idea that B200 was anywhere close to appropriate for ANY length of trip in Patong, or any other area? Ah! Of course! Silly me! Not the taxi association. The taxi Cosa Nostra.

Ah well. It's just a matter of time before tourism is a forgotten business in Phuket.

[formuleone]

You sir are a genius if there is ever a way to win an argument its empirical evidence. +1 I had a friend suckerpunched in Chaing Mai by a tuk tuk guy trying to rip them off. He gave him the fair that was told in the first place and refused and turned his back on him when he demanded more. The Tuk tuk driver sucker punched him with a piece of pipe in his hand the guy who got hit was in his 60's and a really good guy towards everyone. His mission in life was making people happy whenever he could. His kindness was repaid by these same kind of parasites that ruin Thailand.

And can't you see that in some thai eyes, YOU are the parasite ?

[thaiorchidsource]

This is not about the issue of the farang rate of fare often charged to those visitors, but I must post that if anyone does not understand that in the Thai culture where emotion is suppressed, that when emotion surfaces, its often in the most violent way. Pay the fare! Next time, negotiate before stepping in. Ofcourse alcohol was involved, and all bets are off.

[Quadra]

the post was there. it was there for an hour or so. it described a statement from the wife. why TV removed it I don't know. they can answer that.

no problems dude, you believe what you want, if you can't read a Thai newspaper, that's fine ....

I read it too. Someone has deleted that particular post.

[Wavefloater]

Many many years ago, while living in Bangkok for 12 years I got in a dispute over the fare with motorcylce guy that had stopped where I was standing and asked where I was going.

I told him where I was going and I stated the price in Thai language and he agreed.

When we got there he doubled the price on me and I refused to pay.

I stood there and offered him the fare that I had stated and the fare that he had agreed upon.

He would not take the money that we had agreed upon and then got off his bike and confronted me demanding double the fare.

I tried to pay him the agreed fare and he would not take it while demanding the double fare price.

I said take it or leave it and he refused to take it.

I tried to walk away from him and his nonsense but he "Blocked" me with his arm.

I told him again I was not going to pay him and tried to put the money in his hand but he would not take it and kept demanding the double fare.

I told him once again I would not pay the doble fare and asked him if he wanted the agreed fare or not.

He kept demanding the double fare and then told me that was the fare I had previously agreed upon with him.

I corrected him and told him I had offered a price and he had agreed.

In Thai langauge I repeated myself and told him I would not pay the double fare price.

I then told him again I would pay him the agreed fare, take it or leave it, as I had to go.

He would not take the money.

I then tried to move around him again and he raised his elbow in my face and put his other hand on my chest and forcefully blocked me while making the Thai Boxing "elbow to the face gesture " clearly demonstrating that he was going to THAI BOX my face if I did not pay him.

Well Folks...I just lost it right then and there.

I proceeded to beat the crap out of the guy right then and there on the side walk on Silom Road in broad daylight in front of a bank building in 1998

He totally did not expect that to happen and I was surprised how easy it was for me to grab this guy and manhandle him and throw him around and beat him to the ground and left him stunned, lying on the ground.

I do not care what any other person has to say about that incident and what I should have done or not should have done in their opinion.

Criticise all you want...I dont care.

But on that particular day all the 12 years of Thai bullshit frustrations and the many times I had been cheated here and there by Thai people just boiled over and I lost it with that motorcylce guy when he put his hand on me and threatened to "Thai Box " my face.

After I had beat him I then put the money that he had demanded on the seat of his motorcylcle while screaming at him and saying: "Are you satisfied now" " Are you happy now you silly XXXXXX."

I paid him the money for the satisfaction of beating him up and for being the A Hole that we was and acting the way that he did thinking he could try to extort the money from me while threatening to box my face as if he was some sort of professional Thai Boxer.

I had hurt the guy real good and he was bleeding from the mouth and his lip was all swollen and he was totally dazed.

I just walked away and went into the building I was going to anyhow thinking I should not have done that and I had over reacted and should have just paid him.

I was feeling sorry for him.

But then again I thought: "Why should I let anyone cheat me like that while he is threatening to assault me.???

I had never had anything quite like that happen to me in 12 years of living in Bangkok and never since but I still wonder why the Thai man thought he could do what he tried to do and not simply except the money we had agreed upon.

Even if he had mistakenly agreed or did not understand what I had said in Thai langauge he could have accepted the money and moved on.

But no..he thought he could get more money out of me because I was a farang.

There are plenty of Thai people out there that can ruin your day if you happen to connect with them some how and in some way.

They come with an attitude and they can be stupidly stubborn and small minded.

That guy in particular, on that day was mistaken when he thought he could get some easy money from a farang.

Hilarious, but when you think about it, the outcome makes perfect sense because a Thai man wouldn't have a clue how to approach a 1 on 1 fight -- just doesn't happen in Thailand. Seriously, in the many years I've lived here I have never seen Thais fight 1 on 1 -- it's always 4, 5 or 6 on 1.

[Quadra]

You keep harping on about evidence, yet you seem just as quick to make your mind up as I am. A drunk farang is nearly always at the centre of these stories. I've seen their behaviour first hand more times than I care to remember. Added to that I don't have an irrational, frothing at the mouth hatred for them as every body else does, and the fact that this Thailand and everyone should be on their best behaviour in other peoples country, I will lean toward blaming the German. Baring in mind at no time have I condoned him being beaten.

Where's the evidence to say the the German guy was drunk, or pushed/assaulted the tuk tuk driver? All the participants to this sad affair cant be found or cant remember anything. As for the Thai police, well enough has been said about that lot already - totally useless and corrupt.

[animatic]

Violence like this should not be tolerated regardless of the amount in question. If the authorities don't crack down then Phuket isn't safe. You cannot just kick the shit out of somebody because you lost face and expect to get away with it.

Sadly yes they can, and that's why they do it.

Face is more important and they have their little mafia to back them up.

So now it becomes the group losing face or one farang.

Group wins, unless the police see reason to shoot them down,

read lack of suitable pay off regularly.

[normac44]

Some times It's just better to shut your mouth and pay the extra 100 baht.Pushing the tuk tuk driver and making him lose face didn't help matters either. If he had of agreed to pay 50 baht ,

both parties could have sorted it out without the guy ending up in ICU.

I could'nt agree more. I am too old and sick to get in to an argument with these guys.pay up and move on and enjoy your' night out. After all it is only the price of 1 beer.

[Marvo]

It's not just Phuket that has Tuk Tuk issues...

In Hua Hin it is not possible to find a single meter taxi either. I needed a 15km round trip so woke up a sleeping Tuk Tuk driver and asked how much he would charge me for that. "1,000 Baht" came the reply. I offered him 500 Baht for the 30 minutes or so work but he declined and went back to sleep.

MINIMUM fare in Hua Hin is 150 Baht BTW.

150 Bath is Farang price only! Thais pay way less than that! When you bring your Thai wife, you are supposed to be charged the Thai price!

I will stay away from any double pricing destination like Phuket and Hua Hin.

My wife is Thai and even on her own she cannot get a Tuk Tuk for less than 150 Baht!

[koto]

200 baht equals approximately 4 and a half Euros. A German paying anything less than ten euros for such a trip in Germany would be lucky indeed. While this is not Germany, the foreigners come here expecting everything for cheap and to push people around, just like that German just pushed the tuk-tuk driver to the ground because there was an argument. We don't have the whole story, because as was noted, the German couple were drunk, it is possible they are putting themselves in a much better light than they have behaved, and the Tuk-tuk driver cannot be located because 200 baht is not an incredibly high price to pay for a taxi ride in the rain in the middle of the night.

Nice to know someone has some common-sense. Not paying the fare and pushing the driver down in the rain, in his country, (maybe older) is the wrong thing to do where-ever your at.

Then (shit can happen) Yes the beating was way over the top, play with fire, to drunk to remember or walk, rain, 800 meters, 200baht, pay and thank him.

I often see many lazy Farangs not wanting to walk the distance, then bitching over 50 or 100 baht, ask first.

I hope he recovers, sorry if he doesn't. Let this be a wake up call, ask first, to much, walk.

[koto]

After reading 7 pages of thread I can't believe the endless repeats of the following:

Comparisons of Thailand to Germany, UK, US. Utterly ridiculous. You can't compare them on any level. Compare to another impoverished Asian country, if you must.

People taking the story at face value when lots of it makes no sense. Who hit who? The drunk missus. The copper who seems to know the whole story but maintains there were no (coherent) witnesses. Except him it seems.

The usual plethora of Thai bashing that is unrelated to this post. There is clearly a very big problem with Tuk Tuks in Phuket. There seems to be a regular crew hanging around however. who wheel out the same "Thailand is crap" comments. I've tried to get on top of the moderating rules. But early on is a post by (why bother naming them) some fool who suggests if we stay away from Thailand they will have to "eat their young". I mean really.

It seems it was an argument amount a relatively (to a westerner) small amount of money. I've lived in a third world country for nearly twenty years. Arguing with a local about small money until it gets really aggro is crazy. Just pay and don't do it again. Complain yes, and this forum is a good place to discuss it. But winding up with life threatening injuries over a couple of bucks is senseless.

Don't come the "principle" of the matter or right and wrong. Take care of yourself. This is a poor country where (like virtually all poor countries) the rule of law does not necessarily apply.

Mahalo nui loa (Thank you very much)

374.bmp

[XAR]

Cool, no problem. So I thing we both agree the forum is doing its job. If a German guy gets sent to ICU by a local gang over a 100B fare, it sounds like the sort of thing that should be reported no? Or should we ration tuk-tuk beating stories to 1 a month say?

I agree, Thailand has amazing things to offer visitors. So anything that can help steer them away from places like Patong can only be a good thing imho.

Indeed. Phuket is a wonderful place but sadly the Phuket forum on Thaivisa is full of "sad" or tragic" news. I am not saying those stories don't matter or should not be reported, I am saying ThaiVisa should try to equally report good news and maybe smaller events that also show a good image of this island.

I hope the German man will recover soon.

Last I checked, this was an open forum. If you want to report good news, then start a thread and post your good news.

[mikebell]

This follows hard on the heels of the new "Miracle Thailand " campaign NOT !!

The Miracle will be if he survives. so last week the top cop had a meeting with these thugs telling them no more tourist beatings and VOILA the next week a guys is beaten unconcious

Whats it going to take before this stuff stops ? EVEN A TOURIST DEATH wont stop it I predict.

Phuket is a place to avoid like the plague a den of thugs what with the Jet Skis and the Tuk Tuk drivers and regular tourist beatings

DK

The Death of Tourism would stop this. It amazes me why any sane person with an IQ above 70 would wish to experience this type of Thai Tourism. If you don't wish to be ripped off by tuk-tuk drivers and jet-ski scammers or get beaten up, stay away from Phuket!

Edited August 30, 2011 by LivinginKata
Large font removed

[jalansanitwong]

What is going on in Phuket ? (silly question) Its basically a case of too many foreigners with too much money and not understanding that Thailand is a real country with real problems and not a paradise resort built for sun seeking foreigners.<BR>Obviously it was a huge mistake to knock down a Thai man because they usually come back and retaliate violently as in this case.<BR>How is it that a useless tuk tuk can charge 200 baht for a short trip. In Bangkok i pay 20 baht for the same distance (600-700 m) . i loath tuk tuks but my kids like them so we go home occassionally from school in one.<BR>Tourists are taken for absolute suckers in Phuket. Everyone who lives here knows its a tourist trap. Why go there. farang expats in the know, know where to go for a good holiday here and its not Phuket .Remember when compassionate European & Australian tourists were handing out big tips to Phuket staff after the tsunami. Silly fools.

Edited August 30, 2011 by jalansanitwong

[LivinginKata]

The Death of Tourism would stop this. It amazes me why any sane person with an IQ above 70 would wish to experience this type of Thai Tourism. If you don't wish to be ripped off by tuk-tuk drivers and jet-ski scammers or get beaten up, stay away from Phuket!

How about just avoiding Tuk Tuks and Jet Skis. Phuket Island has so much to offer for the average tourist.

[Tibo27]

Last I checked, this was an open forum. If you want to report good news, then start a thread and post your good news.

Last I checked, it is the Admin posting most of those news. Again, I am not saying it shouldn't be reported, I am saying there must be other good news that could be reported and gives a better image of Phuket as I am sure there is good things happening there.

After 9 pages of comments, the story did not move an inch even though we all think we know what happen. Truth is, there isn't enough facts to be sure. But obviously, that's the kind of stories people want, because we all have a little something to teach to others...

I am sure there is some people opening nice business, or some small festivals or else that are worth talking about a bit more.

[stevenl]

you're kind of missing the point...

No, I'm not missing the point, I just don't agree with you.

[FaxFlora]

The Death of Tourism would stop this. It amazes me why any sane person with an IQ above 70 would wish to experience this type of Thai Tourism. If you don't wish to be ripped off by tuk-tuk drivers and jet-ski scammers or get beaten up, stay away from Phuket!

Anyone with an IQ bigger than their shoesize would be able to stay in Phuket and not use tuktuks or jetskis.

[stevenl]

Anyone with an IQ bigger than their shoesize would be able to stay in Phuket and not use tuktuks or jetskis.

Agreed, and even using them will hardly ever cause problems, IMO just 2 rules:

Jetski's: don't use them in Patong, only place where there have been problems;

Tuktuks: agree on a price beforehand, pay the agreed price, and there are no problems.

[LivinLOS]

Tuktuks: agree on a price beforehand, pay the agreed price, and there are no problems.

Except when the want to jack the price up before the agreed destination of the journey.

[KarenBravo]

Thailand is a real country with real problems and not a paradise resort built for sun seeking foreigners.

Yet, this is exactly how Phuket is promoted to other countries by the TAT, an official government department.

Edited August 30, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes,

[humqdpf]

Let me get this straight. If you have to pay a very high amount of money in your home country for a particular service, often involving a high degree of comfort, safety and insurance and where the service provider is sober, not high on drugs, highly trained and unlikely to get his friends to beat the living daylights out of you if you have a legitimate grievance over the fare, then you should be prepared to pay at least the same amount of money for an uncomfortable, unsafe, uninsured service where the service provider is likely to be on something and guaranteed to beat the living daylights out of you if you have a legitimate grievance over the fare.

That means that if you are from a country where a service is more expensive, you should pay the same as that in another country where the service is much cheaper?

You are right about not pushing the tuk tuk driver but I would be surprised at anyone unprovoked pushing a tuk tuk driver, especially someone with a Thai wife/girlfriend who would understand that this would be kinda suicidal. There is likely to be much more to the story than we have been told. We get told that the foreigner was drunk but we hear nothing about the aggressive state of mind possibly brought on by taking too much jaba on the part of the tuk tuk driver.

I has an experience recently in Bangkok with a taxi driver who, having accepted me into his taxi from a covered bus stop in the rain, wanted to charge me 300baht to go from Central store to Soi 4 - the correct fare should be 50, maybe 60 in really bad traffic. Even though I was polite throughout the conversation, he stuck to his guns and wanted to throw me out of his cab in the rain and refused to start the meter. He also used some choice language in Thai. - he was clearly trying to get me angry when he realized that I understood some words.

He could have stayed in the car for a few blocks and taken his fare of 60 baht but instead stopped his car in a driveway and harangued me, trying to get me to pay the 300 baht. Eventually, he just sat there refusing to move. So I proceed to pretend to drift off asleep, having nothing else on that afternoon. The pantomime kept going as he pretended that the car was broken down - he raised the hood as he was probably afraid that the cops would stop by to see what was wrong. He then started to call up reinforcements - or at least he was making it appear that he was doing so. I pretended to be unmoved and kept the waiting game up for another 10 minutes on the basis that his reinforcements would take forever to arrive given the weather and traffic. By this stage he was clearly close to tears, having painted himself into a corner.

I exited his cab, thanked him for allowing me to sleep in his cab but requesting that he provide a pillow next time. I stopped another cab within a couple of meters and got to my destination for 40 baht, giving the driver a 20 baht tip for his good service.

200 baht equals approximately 4 and a half Euros. A German paying anything less than ten euros for such a trip in Germany would be lucky indeed. While this is not Germany, the foreigners come here expecting everything for cheap and to push people around, just like that German just pushed the tuk-tuk driver to the ground because there was an argument. We don't have the whole story, because as was noted, the German couple were drunk, it is possible they are putting themselves in a much better light than they have behaved, and the Tuk-tuk driver cannot be located because 200 baht is not an incredibly high price to pay for a taxi ride in the rain in the middle of the night.

[ALFREDO]

In this case, the heavy drinking seems to me a problem, same the overpriced fair.

When you not drunk, you walk the distance, when you not drunk, you ask for the fair first, when your wife is not drunk, she makes the deal with the Tha man.

But as a drunk, you realise nothing! So better stay sober!

I usualy use my own vehicle in Patong, but as parking is limited in the night and costs often money and is also a good walk away from the center of Patong, I sometimes use tuk tuks and Motobike taxis.

Drive to Bangla with Motobike taxi and usualy come back with my choosen one and a Tuk Tuk.

To Nanai Rd. than 200 Baht overpriced, but I already have other thoughts!

With Motobike taxis I have sometime also funny discussions, the want to charge me more, because I heavy same two normal people.

Ok, than I walk instead or look for another driver. Simple.

[LivinginKata]

Tuktuks: agree on a price beforehand, pay the agreed price, and there are no problems.

Except when the want to jack the price up before the agreed destination of the journey.

Sadly this is often the case. I have read so many posts advising 'agree the price before starting the journey', that's sound advice, but what do you do when then price is much more than you agreed on arrival. That's a tricky situation, as seems to have happened to the unfortunate German man. I have read reports on another web site that he agreed to the 100 baht price, then 200 baht was demanded. I have no idea if that report is true, but it's often the case that the agreed price turns into price per person.

[stevenl]

Tuktuks: agree on a price beforehand, pay the agreed price, and there are no problems.

Except when the want to jack the price up before the agreed destination of the journey.

Sadly this is often the case. I have read so many posts advising 'agree the price before starting the journey', that's sound advice, but what do you do when then price is much more than you agreed on arrival. That's a tricky situation, as seems to have happened to the unfortunate German man. I have read reports on another web site that he agreed to the 100 baht price, then 200 baht was demanded. I have no idea if that report is true, but it's often the case that the agreed price turns into price per person.

I seriously don't believe this happens, except to LivinLOS going up the hill 10 years ago. I have also heard that the agreed upon price in the case of the unfortunate German was 200 Baht, but on destination he refused to pay the agreed upon price.

[LivinginKata]

I seriously don't believe this happens, except to LivinLOS going up the hill 10 years ago. I have also heard that the agreed upon price in the case of the unfortunate German was 200 Baht, but on destination he refused to pay the agreed upon price.

I suppose we will have to wait until the German recovers (hopefully) and makes his statement to the media. The media reporting the wife's statement stated that 100 baht was agreed. I have no idea if this is true. I remember reading in the Phuket Gazette some time back, about tourists complaining about price hikes on arrival, after agreement of price on journey start. I know other people (my neighbours & guests) who had the same experience as LivinLOS as (at that time) we both lived on the same hillside road.

[LivinLOS]

Tuktuks: agree on a price beforehand, pay the agreed price, and there are no problems.

Except when the want to jack the price up before the agreed destination of the journey.

Sadly this is often the case. I have read so many posts advising 'agree the price before starting the journey', that's sound advice, but what do you do when then price is much more than you agreed on arrival. That's a tricky situation, as seems to have happened to the unfortunate German man. I have read reports on another web site that he agreed to the 100 baht price, then 200 baht was demanded. I have no idea if that report is true, but it's often the case that the agreed price turns into price per person.

I seriously don't believe this happens, except to LivinLOS going up the hill 10 years ago. I have also heard that the agreed upon price in the case of the unfortunate German was 200 Baht, but on destination he refused to pay the agreed upon price.

OK well if you choose to believe it or not.. it happens and not as some once in a blue moon chance either.

Have an unusual or out of the way destination, and no matter how clear the discussion. They just demand more.. Or your dumped in the dark... And still expect full agreed payment.

[riceman09]

This follows hard on the heels of the new "Miracle Thailand " campaign NOT !!

It is a miracle he survived...

I don't defend the thai driver but try to push anyone out of your way anywhere in the world while having an argument and tell me if you don't start trouble. The fact that we go abroad doesn't put us above anybody or gives us any special rights. There is good and bad everywhere and more often than not it is down to common sense: use it.

[guzzi850m2]

How about just avoiding Tuk Tuks and Jet Skis. Phuket Island has so much to offer for the average tourist.

Exactly, I am on Phuket 2 - 4 times a year for some family business. First thing I do, go rent a bike, uses same guy so a fair price.

Jet skies are the same thing here in Pattaya, so I never rent them and I don't really care too much as its not my thing anyway.

Yes ALWAYS agree on a price for a tuk tuk if you need one before getting in the dam_n thing.

Don't push Thai people around, you gonna loose in 99% of the cases.