Only Truth And Justice Will Close The Gap: Thai National Reform Committee

[webfact]

Only truth and justice will close the gap, says Prawase

By The Nation

Prawase Wasi, who chairs the National Reform Committee, explains why the month-old government needs to urgently address the problem of social inequality in an interview with the Nation News Agency's Thanatpong Kongsai.

What issue does the new government need to address immediately as part of its reform efforts?

The reform committee and assembly still exist. Under an order from the Prime Minister's Office [in the previous government], they will last three years. They have existed for a year and have two more years to go. We made proposals on eight issues. The government may look into them if they are interested, but they are all are difficult issues. They include land reform, reform of coastal resources and reform of the tax system.

Our proposal is to create an independent organisation to look into these matters. Such organisation can help poor people effectively if it is independent. We are pleased to support the government. We are not politicians and can work with any administration.

What are the major problems that need to be addressed urgently to reduce inequity?

They are justice and land. Some poor people are sued and detained for encroaching on land their families have been living on for generations. Suddenly, they are told that they are trespassing. Some of them have died in jail. We have to offer leniency. The government should urgently address this issue. People become resentful when they fail to get justice.

I have spoken to Justice Minister Pracha Promnok about this issue, and have urged him to set up a justice fund for communities. Poor people need financial help when they get arrested. They have no money to pay for lawyers, court fees or even to get to court.

These are issues the government needs to address urgently. First, give land to as many poor people as possible - may be just a rai or two each. The government has so much land, as does the military. Second, increase land tax. Third, set up a fund to buy land. In the United States, businesspeople set up a fund to buy land for poor people. This is not a big issue but is difficult to do because land-rich people are often powerful.

It seems the problems are interconnected.

The government must look into the inequality issue. Even developed countries like the United Kingdom and the United States still have the problem of inequity. There were riots and they will happen again.

Do we have to wait for a turning point when the poor people rise up against social inequality?

Naturally, they will fight for themselves. But for Thailand, an important turning point is to be kind to poor people and love justice. Thai society dislikes poor people, even though most of our population is poor. There are 38 million labourers and many of the farmers are living in poverty. If people lack security in their life and fail to live well, the country will be weakened. We have to start loving poor people. Change now.

Do you think raising the minimum daily wage to Bt300 and setting the minimum salary for new graduates at Bt15,000 will help ease social inequality?

They are good policies. We must try to make people of lower classes earn more. A daily wage of Bt300 may not be enough to buy food and pay rent because the cost of living is rising. One solution is to provide more land to poor people.

The Justice Ministry has set up a committee to look into the petition to get a royal pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra. Do you think this could lead to criticism that the government is unaware of the need for national reform?

Reform can and will continue. As for the pardon issue, it involves one big problem - social division. To solve this problem, we have to address social inequity that is caused by a flawed power structure. We have to reform the power structure.

Do you think the government made a wrong move by focusing on Thaksin rather than reform or reconciliation?

I don't want to criticise the government. I just want to help them.

-- The Nation 2011-09-14

[Pib]

Only truth and justice will close the gap

Sounds like a song lyric...a sad song played over and over in Thailand for many years.

[OzMick]

Give a poor man B1000, and his poverty will be alleviated for one day. Give him 2 rai of land and tell him to farm it, and he will be poor for the rest of his life.

[MILT]

Give a poor man B1000, and his poverty will be alleviated for one day. Give him 2 rai of land and tell him to farm it, and he will be poor for the rest of his life.

Yes and no OZMick, Giving 1,000 baht. Zero effect, but giving land with a plan, a goal if you will will create a positive outlook and inspire the poor to maintain a simple life and at the same time bring a flow of sustenance. Cash flow is always better than a windfall of money. All in all I understand what your getting at. You make a good point

[hammered]

Failing to address inequality will be a disaster waiting to happen. The odd thing is that failing to address it in the past created the conditions for Thaksin to in some ways bizarrely assume the space of hero of the oppressed.

Good points made in a tactful way by Prawase

[OzMick]

Good points in a tactful way? How does giving a man 2 rai of land, thus turning into a subsistence farmer, rectify social inequality?

"Despite the fact that Hom Mali rice can only grow once a year and despite the lower yield than other rice varieties, it became popular within north-eastern farmers due to its attractive selling price. It is also grown in other areas of Thailand. This rice yields about 350kg of grain per rai in the Northeast, 500kg per rai in the North and about 450kg per rai in the Central Plains."

http://www.thaiworld...m/lao/isan4.htm

Given 2 rai of good rice growing land, he will generate B20,000 / year LESS expenses, IF he can access PTP's subsidy. He'll be putting a deposit on a Mercedes in no time.

Edited September 14, 2011 by OzMick

[arnoldjr]

a friend of mine offered to set up an irrigation system for his wife's family farm and teach them how to use it that way they didnt have to just "wait for raining" as they say. the only thing they had to do was pay him back over 5 years. they looked at him at thought he was crazy. "why work hard when we can send our daughters to the big city to fund our whiskey habit." people in issan are poor and have hard lives, but maybe if they weren't such lazy drunks they'd have better lives. im not saying all people in issan because i know some very hard workers from issan that came from nothing. but now they have something and it wasnt cuz they got drunk all day with their hand out for money.

Edited September 14, 2011 by arnoldjr

[backtonormal]

a friend of mine offered to set up an irrigation system for his wife's family farm and teach them how to use it that way they didnt have to just "wait for raining" as they say. the only thing they had to do was pay him back over 5 years. they looked at him at thought he was crazy. "why work hard when we can send our daughters to the big city to fund our whiskey habit." people in issan are poor and have hard lives, but maybe if they weren't such lazy drunks they'd have better lives. im not saying all people in issan because i know some very hard workers from issan that came from nothing. but now they have something and it wasnt cuz they got drunk all day with their hand out for money.

Agree in part, it is not so much lazy as an acceptance of their lot in life. I see it in the school kids. Why work my gonads off I can never prosper I can only survive. These people need goals in life other than to feed themselves everyday

[Traxster]

As long as a small percentage of the population control the money

there is no way on earth, that they will let the great unwashed come anywhere near self sufficiency.

[tlansford]

Addressing inequality - actively - is admirable.

He does make some very good points: a legal council for people who cannot afford it, finding a way to sort out land-disputes and helping people to get at least a little land to live on.

His point about justice and being kind to poor in Thailand seems dead-on to me.

If people lack security in their life and fail to live well, the country will be weakened. We have to start loving poor people. Change now.

In Thailand, and everywhere that I know in the world, land of your own = security.

As for income inequality : it is currently higher in the USA than in Thailand. Go Team Thailand !

Income inequality is currently less in Thailand, than in the USA

[tlansford]

a friend of mine offered to set up an irrigation system for his wife's family farm and teach them how to use it that way they didnt have to just "wait for raining" as they say. the only thing they had to do was pay him back over 5 years. they looked at him at thought he was crazy. "why work hard when we can send our daughters to the big city to fund our whiskey habit." people in issan are poor and have hard lives, but maybe if they weren't such lazy drunks they'd have better lives. im not saying all people in issan because i know some very hard workers from issan that came from nothing. but now they have something and it wasnt cuz they got drunk all day with their hand out for money.

Agree in part, it is not so much lazy as an acceptance of their lot in life. I see it in the school kids. Why work my gonads off I can never prosper I can only survive. These people need goals in life other than to feed themselves everyday

Not disagreeing with your observations, but this is everywhere in the world... Replace Isaan above with Arkansas, Picardie, Kent, etc...

Trying to reduce inequality and doing the practical things to help the poor in our societies is an issue everywhere. IMO, it is great to see that the gov't has a focus on this.

[tlansford]

Good points in a tactful way? How does giving a man 2 rai of land, thus turning into a subsistence farmer, rectify social inequality?

"Despite the fact that Hom Mali rice can only grow once a year and despite the lower yield than other rice varieties, it became popular within north-eastern farmers due to its attractive selling price. It is also grown in other areas of Thailand. This rice yields about 350kg of grain per rai in the Northeast, 500kg per rai in the North and about 450kg per rai in the Central Plains."

http://www.thaiworld...m/lao/isan4.htm

Given 2 rai of good rice growing land, he will generate B20,000 / year LESS expenses, IF he can access PTP's subsidy. He'll be putting a deposit on a Mercedes in no time.

what would you do?

[OzMick]

Good points in a tactful way? How does giving a man 2 rai of land, thus turning into a subsistence farmer, rectify social inequality?

"Despite the fact that Hom Mali rice can only grow once a year and despite the lower yield than other rice varieties, it became popular within north-eastern farmers due to its attractive selling price. It is also grown in other areas of Thailand. This rice yields about 350kg of grain per rai in the Northeast, 500kg per rai in the North and about 450kg per rai in the Central Plains."

http://www.thaiworld...m/lao/isan4.htm

Given 2 rai of good rice growing land, he will generate B20,000 / year LESS expenses, IF he can access PTP's subsidy. He'll be putting a deposit on a Mercedes in no time.

what would you do?

Besides pointing out idiocy, I have to be an unpaid adviser as well?

How about funding an adult-entry apprentice scheme - low pay for a few years, then a decent paying job for the rest of his working life for those prepared to work for what they get instead of taking a handout. Any one of a million ways to move into the 21st century, not back to the 15th.

How about you Tom, any ideas? Anything at all? How about artificially inflating the price of rice, hey, that's a great policy NOT!

[Thai at Heart]

a friend of mine offered to set up an irrigation system for his wife's family farm and teach them how to use it that way they didnt have to just "wait for raining" as they say. the only thing they had to do was pay him back over 5 years. they looked at him at thought he was crazy. "why work hard when we can send our daughters to the big city to fund our whiskey habit." people in issan are poor and have hard lives, but maybe if they weren't such lazy drunks they'd have better lives. im not saying all people in issan because i know some very hard workers from issan that came from nothing. but now they have something and it wasnt cuz they got drunk all day with their hand out for money.

If you think it is so simple to change hundreds of years of practices when it comes to agriculture you are mad. The E gave away hundreds of irrigation systems in the 90's and very little came of it then. Why? Because the ground water in much of isaan is salty, so rain water is a much better bet. I have worked in agriculture in isaan, and the hardest thing is to get anything to change. Be it work practices, pesticides, harvesting techniques, anything. There is an absolute distrust of anything new, which isn't helped by the complete and utter antipathy from the agriculture ministry towards changing a dam_n thing.

Somtimes I used to pull my hair out to see the same things going wrong year after year, and wonder if the only person in the country that could tell people not to burn paddies, or what type of pesticides were correct, or when to harvest and to get them to listen was the King. The amount of distrust of government and business attached to the rice and sugar business is enormous. Why? Because the farmers have been f******d over hundreds and hundreds of times, and have had no voice with which to change anything. So, when something is offered for free, a few will give it a go just to see, and you better hope it works, or that idea will never ever be accepted again.

Thai farmers aren't stupid or lazy, they just much rather trust their experience than have anyone from the outside interfere, because experience has shown them that it ordinarily leads to more work, with relatively little benefit in the short term, or it leads to them getting screwed over by the buyers.

[scorecard]

Give a poor man B1000, and his poverty will be alleviated for one day. Give him 2 rai of land and tell him to farm it, and he will be poor for the rest of his life.

Yes and no OZMick, Giving 1,000 baht. Zero effect, but giving land with a plan, a goal if you will will create a positive outlook and inspire the poor to maintain a simple life and at the same time bring a flow of sustenance. Cash flow is always better than a windfall of money. All in all I understand what your getting at. You make a good point

There's another point. Right now there are many surrounding factors which will make it very difficult for the man with 2 rai, even if he owns it, to make enough money to have a good quality of life for himself, send his kids to a good school, etc etc.

Sure most farmers want to be farmers, but the time came a long time ago for a lot more people to realize that small scale farming is no longer economically viable, for a good quality of life.

[scorecard]

a friend of mine offered to set up an irrigation system for his wife's family farm and teach them how to use it that way they didnt have to just "wait for raining" as they say. the only thing they had to do was pay him back over 5 years. they looked at him at thought he was crazy. "why work hard when we can send our daughters to the big city to fund our whiskey habit." people in issan are poor and have hard lives, but maybe if they weren't such lazy drunks they'd have better lives. im not saying all people in issan because i know some very hard workers from issan that came from nothing. but now they have something and it wasnt cuz they got drunk all day with their hand out for money.

Agree in part, it is not so much lazy as an acceptance of their lot in life. I see it in the school kids. Why work my gonads off I can never prosper I can only survive. These people need goals in life other than to feed themselves everyday

Not disagreeing with your observations, but this is everywhere in the world... Replace Isaan above with Arkansas, Picardie, Kent, etc...

Trying to reduce inequality and doing the practical things to help the poor in our societies is an issue everywhere. IMO, it is great to see that the gov't has a focus on this.

"...the government has a focus on this." Please share, and please don't say the 300Baht a day.....

[hammered]

Give a poor man B1000, and his poverty will be alleviated for one day. Give him 2 rai of land and tell him to farm it, and he will be poor for the rest of his life.

Yes and no OZMick, Giving 1,000 baht. Zero effect, but giving land with a plan, a goal if you will will create a positive outlook and inspire the poor to maintain a simple life and at the same time bring a flow of sustenance. Cash flow is always better than a windfall of money. All in all I understand what your getting at. You make a good point

There's another point. Right now there are many surrounding factors which will make it very difficult for the man with 2 rai, even if he owns it, to make enough money to have a good quality of life for himself, send his kids to a good school, etc etc.

Sure most farmers want to be farmers, but the time came a long time ago for a lot more people to realize that small scale farming is no longer economically viable, for a good quality of life.

I dont know a single farmer who wants his/her kids to be farmers and I know a lot of farmers in the lower north. Farming is seen as too much hard work for no real return even compared to unskilled or semi-skilled work in urban areas. Virtually everyone under 40 and over 15-18 are no longer in the villages I go to. They are all working at a variety of levels in industrial urban areas and returning home increasingly in cars and reasonably nice clothes with a fairly modern phone on long national holidays. That sends out signals to the kids too as their parents also encourage them not to be farmers

[rubl]

There's another point. Right now there are many surrounding factors which will make it very difficult for the man with 2 rai, even if he owns it, to make enough money to have a good quality of life for himself, send his kids to a good school, etc etc.

Sure most farmers want to be farmers, but the time came a long time ago for a lot more people to realize that small scale farming is no longer economically viable, for a good quality of life.

I dont know a single farmer who wants his/her kids to be farmers and I know a lot of farmers in the lower north. Farming is seen as too much hard work for no real return even compared to unskilled or semi-skilled work in urban areas. Virtually everyone under 40 and over 15-18 are no longer in the villages I go to. They are all working at a variety of levels in industrial urban areas and returning home increasingly in cars and reasonably nice clothes with a fairly modern phone on long national holidays. That sends out signals to the kids too as their parents also encourage them not to be farmers

You give one of the reasons why lots of red-shirts living and working around Bangkok have voted Pheu Thai. Even easy credit needs to be repaid eventually and 300B/day will go some way to help. Same with the 15,000B/month for <to be specified group>.

[tlansford]

Good points in a tactful way? How does giving a man 2 rai of land, thus turning into a subsistence farmer, rectify social inequality?

"Despite the fact that Hom Mali rice can only grow once a year and despite the lower yield than other rice varieties, it became popular within north-eastern farmers due to its attractive selling price. It is also grown in other areas of Thailand. This rice yields about 350kg of grain per rai in the Northeast, 500kg per rai in the North and about 450kg per rai in the Central Plains."

http://www.thaiworld...m/lao/isan4.htm

Given 2 rai of good rice growing land, he will generate B20,000 / year LESS expenses, IF he can access PTP's subsidy. He'll be putting a deposit on a Mercedes in no time.

what would you do?

Besides pointing out idiocy, I have to be an unpaid adviser as well?

How about funding an adult-entry apprentice scheme - low pay for a few years, then a decent paying job for the rest of his working life for those prepared to work for what they get instead of taking a handout. Any one of a million ways to move into the 21st century, not back to the 15th.

How about you Tom, any ideas? Anything at all? How about artificially inflating the price of rice, hey, that's a great policy NOT!

just giving you the chance to go beyond shooting down the ideas of others.

Education is always a great equalizer. There are many aspects to it and your apprenticeship idea is a valid one with a good success rate around the world. Education across the board is critical. Community education for adults and young people is also important. I know many young people who want to learn English because it will help them get a better job. But the schools are not so cheap. Extending the free education through university would be a great longer-term policy to implement (implement now, see the benefits in the longer term...)

you shot down the land idea, but land ownership is also a great equalizer of inequity across the world. As for how that is best done in Thailand, the Thais can figure it out. The gentleman here pointed out the need. The question is which option(s) are feasible to try first.

Attacking the things that are regressive helps a great deal - for example, the universal health care can be extended with more support to fund doctors, nurses, hospitals, and materials in under-serviced areas.

Those are the kind of activities that would help. There are many others, and many people with good ideas and skills - the point of the gentleman here is to care about the poor, income inequity and then do something ... I agree with that. In my little part of the world, I myself do what I can. This is key - the gov't has a responsibility to its citizens, and we each have a responsibility to one another as well as to ourselves.

Cheers - Tom

[hammered]

There's another point. Right now there are many surrounding factors which will make it very difficult for the man with 2 rai, even if he owns it, to make enough money to have a good quality of life for himself, send his kids to a good school, etc etc.

Sure most farmers want to be farmers, but the time came a long time ago for a lot more people to realize that small scale farming is no longer economically viable, for a good quality of life.

I dont know a single farmer who wants his/her kids to be farmers and I know a lot of farmers in the lower north. Farming is seen as too much hard work for no real return even compared to unskilled or semi-skilled work in urban areas. Virtually everyone under 40 and over 15-18 are no longer in the villages I go to. They are all working at a variety of levels in industrial urban areas and returning home increasingly in cars and reasonably nice clothes with a fairly modern phone on long national holidays. That sends out signals to the kids too as their parents also encourage them not to be farmers

You give one of the reasons why lots of red-shirts living and working around Bangkok have voted Pheu Thai. Even easy credit needs to be repaid eventually and 300B/day will go some way to help. Same with the 15,000B/month for <to be specified group>.

Actually that group I am refering to over 15/18-40 are not as overwhelmingly PTP or red as their rural parents in my experience.

Also nearly all of the ones I know live away from farmland all year round and are salaried rather than daily paid and seem in general to be doing OK in repayments and in general earning than 300 baht per day equivalent in some or even maybe many cases and receiving bonuses too. Not everyone is on daily pay and some with technical backgrounds (and many rural kids seem to go from M3 to techno these days) can get quite good salaries. Admittedly many of those I am talking about have been working away for a few years, and it wasnt so easy when they first left but they have built up work histories or stayed in jobs or used the "telegraph" that passes information around groups from the same area. Im sure some will default but they havent been given credit that is beyond their means to repay in my experience.