Aggressiveness Towards Farangs Lately

[SamuiRes]

Having been here for ten years now I would agree that the Thai males in particular are getting less friendly. We have lived in our present house now for nearly four years. There is a small mini-market shop across the road and when my Thai wife is away I have the daughter there do my laundry and the retired father cut my hair every month. A few weeks ago my wife went to buy some ice - 5 Baht. The son (who sits all day in the shop watching television or drinking in the shop at night with his buddies) refused saying we did not shop there and the ice was reserved for their customers. So for the sake of 5 Baht both the father and the daughter have lost the small custom I brought to the shop forever.

There is no logic to this as one would expect here, but this is part of the problem. We have a lazy young man with no skills who resents the fact that other people have money and his one moment of power is to refuse to sell ice to us. The daughter slaves from morning to dusk washing and ironing and the old man helps cutting hair. The daughter was always pleasant as was the old man - but this young man is a lost cause.

[robsamui]

This is fascinating - if also a bit alarming.

I've been living here for 12 years now (Samui) and I think RickThai has put his finger on it.

10-12 years ago there were two elements involved. One was the attitude of the Thais who had come here from the mainland to find work. That community seemed to be quite pleasant and I never experienced any problems or hostility from them. But the Samui Thais were hostile aggressive and resentful. I myself had several unpleasant experiences and I read and heard of many others. (I'm not going to get distracted by launching into examples as this could fill pages . . .)

Since that time, and right up until the last 12 months or so, everything seemed to have levelled out. Local Govt representatives and farang communities have become integrated to some degree, police now seem to actually listen to both sides of a traffic accident (not simply 'farang pays') and I've met and got to know some delightful local people.

But in the last 2-3 years fewer tourists have been arriving. It's a knock-on effect that hits the hotels and resorts first then the reduction in spending gets passed down to the shops and cafes and eventually results in the ordinary Thai folks who rarely ever see a farang finding that their income is somehow dwindling. It's a kind of 'have cake and eat it' - many Thais were resentful when lots of farangs appeared but then got to enjoy the money they brought in and now are angry with white faces once again, this time because there are less of them.

And another point. There have been several very hard-hitting editorials in the last few months in The Nation newspaper, outspokenly criticising the Thai nation for its blind nationalism and inability to adjust to the world around them. The vein here is obvious: Thailand has its head up its bottom and can't compete economically with the superior farang world and is losing out as a competitive player, both in Asia and internationally. This was written in English and certainly won't have appeared in the Thai newspapers but the word will have spread - and if not the 'word' itself then no doubt the sentiments and feelings behind the message. Yet more resentment to add to the pile.

I'm curious to see how all this is going to play out - but I don't have any jolly feelings about it all . . .

R

Edited October 7, 2011 by robsamui

[balo]

This is perhaps a problem in the tourist areas.

I have never experienced anything like that in Bangkok , a city I have lived in now for 2 years .

I have a lot of Thai friends, this is a big city so maybe more farang friendly than places like Samui.

Edited October 7, 2011 by balo

[PattayaPhom]

LAND OF false SMILES....... .MIRACLE THAILAND

[steelerian]

For those who spent a lot of time away from Samui, say in Isaan, how do people's experiences differ, in the attitudes of Thai men here in Samui, to that of Thai men up in the North in the villages?

[PattayaPhom]

This is perhaps a problem in the tourist areas.

I have never experienced anything like that in Bangkok , a city I have lived in now for 2 years .

I have a lot of Thai friends, this is a big city so maybe more farang friendly than places like Samui.

I always like it when someone says this..............so funny

[carmine]

This is fascinating - if also a bit alarming.

I've been living here for 12 years now (Samui) and I think RickThai has put his finger on it.

10-12 years ago there were two elements involved. One was the attitude of the Thais who had come here from the mainland to find work. That community seemed to be quite pleasant and I never experienced any problems or hostility from them. But the Samui Thais were hostile aggressive and resentful. I myself had several unpleasant experiences and I read and heard of many others. (I'm not going to get distracted by launching into examples as this could fill pages . . .)

Since that time, and right up until the last 12 months or so, everything seemed to have levelled out. Local Govt representatives and farang communities have become integrated to some degree, police now seem to actually listen to both sides of a traffic accident (not simply 'farang pays') and I've met and got to know some delightful local people.

But in the last 2-3 years fewer tourists have been arriving. It's a knock-on effect that hits the hotels and resorts first then the reduction in spending gets passed down to the shops and cafes and eventually results in the ordinary Thai folks who rarely ever see a farang finding that their income is somehow dwindling. It's a kind of 'have cake and eat it' - many Thais were resentful when lots of farangs appeared but then got to enjoy the money they brought in and now are angry with white faces once again, this time because there are less of them.

And another point. There have been several very hard-hitting editorials in the last few months in The Nation newspaper, outspokenly criticising the Thai nation for its blind nationalism and inability to adjust to the world around them. The vein here is obvious: Thailand has its head up its bottom and can't compete economically with the superior farang world and is losing out as a competitive player, both in Asia and internationally. This was written in English and certainly won't have appeared in the Thai newspapers but the word will have spread - and if not the 'word' itself then no doubt the sentiments and feelings behind the message. Yet more resentment to add to the pile.

I'm curious to see how all this is going to play out - but I don't have any jolly feelings about it all . . .

R

The most alarming aspect is that those wishing to be agressive and unpleasant know full well they will almost certainly get the full backing of the "police" despite their obvious guilt. A little baht back hander will suffice and if you don't like it you can leave because you are just a "farang." Make of that what you will but it is the case bar the odd exception and a really dire reflection on the total lack of moral backbone

Thats the choice you make living on this boutique island

[samui34samui]

I always like it when someone says this..............so funny

Why?

[simon43]

One of the vendors stepped in and said to them that I was a very bad farang,

Now why did he do that? Have you got a twin double that IS a bad farang?? Or is there another reason why this man specifically interrupted to point out that you are a very bad farang? Sounds strange to me if done without reason.

Just asking

Simon

[thaigold]

I can only speak for California, but anyone in the professions is sternly warned, do not talk to teenage girls unless you are accompanied by a female witness. This also applies in the business arena. If a oral or written warning is issued to a female employee, you must have a female witness in the room. Some say common sense, given the tenor of the times.

[Maipenrai007]

The most alarming aspect is that those wishing to be agressive and unpleasant know full well they will almost certainly get the full backing of the "police" despite their obvious guilt. A little baht back hander will suffice and if you don't like it you can leave because you are just a "farang." Make of that what you will but it is the case bar the odd exception and a really dire reflection on the total lack of moral backbone

Thats the choice you make living on this boutique island

One word for it....Racism.

[RickThai]

I guess I am getting old, but I remember when I lived in Italy back in the mid-70s, that the fastest way to make friends with Itialians was to smile and act friendly to their children. Instantly you would become just like part of the family.

Now-a-days, thanks to the pedophiles (and funny uncles), even if you smile at a child, you get cold stares. Makes you wonder what has happened to the human race. Even Cape Hunting dogs instinctively protect the young of their own species.

Although in my earlier post, I kind of generalized about the cheapness and lack of respect of Eastern Europeans (specifically Russians) and people from the mid-East (Arabic) seem to exhibit, I admit that was based only upon my limited observations. I'm sure there are many dirtbags from Europe, Australia, and the USA that are just as aggressive and insensitive.

My apologies if I have offended anyone.

I still think that the OP got a raw deal. Having a rod pushed up against your throat for having a casual conversation with a shop girl (I assume she was in the store working at the time), seems kind of extreme for even the most protective parent.

If it were me, I probably would have executed some kind of defensive move that would result in me breaking the rod over the guy's head. Then I would have a real expensive problem to deal with. I applaud his sense of mind.

Perhaps, he was mistaken for someone else. It is possible that all falongs look alike to some Thais.

I was thinking about spending a year or two on Koh Samui, but as I've followed this forum and others, it does seem that Thailand's people are becoming less tolerant of "falongs".

That would be such a shame, as the country and people of Thailand have much too offer foreigners, besides nightlife and cheap sex.

RickThai

[janverbeem]

I was living in Thailand during the mid-70s. I was in the US Army at the time. Once it was announced that the US military (Army and Air Force) was shutting down all of its bases and pulling out of Thailand, crimes against falongs went way up.

Simple acts like waiting in the morning for a baht bus to take you to work, could get you assualted and robbed. This was unthinkable just a few months earlier.

I had a Taxi driver try to get me to go somewhere and fight him, because I smiled and said no, when he quoted a ridiculous fare to me.

Maybe things are getting financially tighter for the Thais living in the tourist spots. With less tourists (and perhaps a large percentage of the tourists being cheaper (Asian, East European, etc), maybe the Thais are starting to get desperate.

Were you haggling over the price? Some Thais get really upset if they think you are "cheating" them out of the ridicuously high price that more ignorant tourist falongs would pay.

From their perspective, it is just a game to you, but they really need the extra 10 or 20 baht. I, too, feel bad sometimes, when I see some well-off tourist, who would spend $200.00 for a meal at home without complaint, haggling over a few baht to a poor Thai, trying to get by, by selling fruit or something at a small markup.

My Thai wife of 36 years, thinks that the general concensus is that Thais around the country are becoming less friendly to outsiders.

Again, maybe this has something to do with the increasing number of Russians and Mid-east tourists, that I personally have found to be without any social graces when it comes to other cultures and peoples.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck.

RickThai

Rick, I think you're really to the point with your comments.

The whole world is in a recession,I will not use the word depression yet,but Thailand escapes this or what.

Now lets just calculate if a westerner loses 20% of his purchasing power due to the recession it will mean that he will get a few beers less every week.

If a Thai lose the same percentage of purchasing power it means that he loses his food budget for that month.

I live here for the past 17 years and I can say they are desperate at the moment.Look at the fire sales that have been started by major companies in the past 2 months.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

This is fascinating - if also a bit alarming.

I've been living here for 12 years now (Samui) and I think RickThai has put his finger on it.

10-12 years ago there were two elements involved. One was the attitude of the Thais who had come here from the mainland to find work. That community seemed to be quite pleasant and I never experienced any problems or hostility from them. But the Samui Thais were hostile aggressive and resentful. I myself had several unpleasant experiences and I read and heard of many others. (I'm not going to get distracted by launching into examples as this could fill pages . . .)

Since that time, and right up until the last 12 months or so, everything seemed to have levelled out. Local Govt representatives and farang communities have become integrated to some degree, police now seem to actually listen to both sides of a traffic accident (not simply 'farang pays') and I've met and got to know some delightful local people.

But in the last 2-3 years fewer tourists have been arriving. It's a knock-on effect that hits the hotels and resorts first then the reduction in spending gets passed down to the shops and cafes and eventually results in the ordinary Thai folks who rarely ever see a farang finding that their income is somehow dwindling. It's a kind of 'have cake and eat it' - many Thais were resentful when lots of farangs appeared but then got to enjoy the money they brought in and now are angry with white faces once again, this time because there are less of them.

And another point. There have been several very hard-hitting editorials in the last few months in The Nation newspaper, outspokenly criticising the Thai nation for its blind nationalism and inability to adjust to the world around them. The vein here is obvious: Thailand has its head up its bottom and can't compete economically with the superior farang world and is losing out as a competitive player, both in Asia and internationally. This was written in English and certainly won't have appeared in the Thai newspapers but the word will have spread - and if not the 'word' itself then no doubt the sentiments and feelings behind the message. Yet more resentment to add to the pile.

I'm curious to see how all this is going to play out - but I don't have any jolly feelings about it all . . .

R

Did you write this ten years ago?? "Superior farang world" mired in debt.

[Tropicalevo]

I guess I am getting old, but I remember when I lived in Italy back in the mid-70s, that the fastest way to make friends with Itialians was to smile and act friendly to their children. Instantly you would become just like part of the family.

Now-a-days, thanks to the pedophiles (and funny uncles), even if you smile at a child, you get cold stares. Makes you wonder what has happened to the human race. Even Cape Hunting dogs instinctively protect the young of their own species.

Although in my earlier post, I kind of generalized about the cheapness and lack of respect of Eastern Europeans (specifically Russians) and people from the mid-East (Arabic) seem to exhibit, I admit that was based only upon my limited observations. I'm sure there are many dirtbags from Europe, Australia, and the USA that are just as aggressive and insensitive.

My apologies if I have offended anyone.

I still think that the OP got a raw deal. Having a rod pushed up against your throat for having a casual conversation with a shop girl (I assume she was in the store working at the time), seems kind of extreme for even the most protective parent.

If it were me, I probably would have executed some kind of defensive move that would result in me breaking the rod over the guy's head. Then I would have a real expensive problem to deal with. I applaud his sense of mind.

Perhaps, he was mistaken for someone else. It is possible that all falongs look alike to some Thais.

I was thinking about spending a year or two on Koh Samui, but as I've followed this forum and others, it does seem that Thailand's people are becoming less tolerant of "falongs".

That would be such a shame, as the country and people of Thailand have much too offer foreigners, besides nightlife and cheap sex.

RickThai

Please remember that when you read these forums - you do not see a balanced view.

No one has started a thread on how great life is here, and no one has started a thread on "I never got beaten up this year!" (I am sure to be corrected if they have!)

The majority of these threads seem to be requests for help or information, or people just getting things 'off their chest'.

I have never been attacked or threatened whilst out shopping, then again I do not speak to adolescent school girls.

I do smile and talk to little kids and the parents are always happy and proud of their rug-rats and ankle biters.

We live on a holiday resort. The very nature of this beast is that we have more of the 'low-life' than other Thai areas. The same is true of most mass holiday destinations.

Most of my friends and I rarely go into Chewang. There is lots to do without going there.

The comments about the global economy are very true and it is hitting Samui big time. The business owners in Chewang and other tourist spots are hurting - Thai and foreign. High rents and lower sales. Foreign business owners can move on if things get bad. Thais have nowhere else to go. When people are desperate, they do desperate things.

I suspect that until the economy picks up, things will get worse for a while, and crime will become more of a problem.

Be careful and do not assume that every smiling face loves you. There are still thousands of nice people out there. It's just that no one writes about them.

Personally I would rather weather an economic storm here on Samui than in Birmingham, London, Manchester etc. There have been no riots here yet!

[stiggy]

Personally I dont think they are more agressive.

For Most the rose tinted glasses have simply worn off.

Part of living here long term, but for me still prefer Thailand to any where else warts and all.

[nod]

I guess I am getting old, but I remember when I lived in Italy back in the mid-70s, that the fastest way to make friends with Itialians was to smile and act friendly to their children. Instantly you would become just like part of the family.

Now-a-days, thanks to the pedophiles (and funny uncles), even if you smile at a child, you get cold stares. Makes you wonder what has happened to the human race. Even Cape Hunting dogs instinctively protect the young of their own species.

Although in my earlier post, I kind of generalized about the cheapness and lack of respect of Eastern Europeans (specifically Russians) and people from the mid-East (Arabic) seem to exhibit, I admit that was based only upon my limited observations. I'm sure there are many dirtbags from Europe, Australia, and the USA that are just as aggressive and insensitive.

My apologies if I have offended anyone.

I still think that the OP got a raw deal. Having a rod pushed up against your throat for having a casual conversation with a shop girl (I assume she was in the store working at the time), seems kind of extreme for even the most protective parent.

If it were me, I probably would have executed some kind of defensive move that would result in me breaking the rod over the guy's head. Then I would have a real expensive problem to deal with. I applaud his sense of mind.

Perhaps, he was mistaken for someone else. It is possible that all falongs look alike to some Thais.

I was thinking about spending a year or two on Koh Samui, but as I've followed this forum and others, it does seem that Thailand's people are becoming less tolerant of "falongs".

That would be such a shame, as the country and people of Thailand have much too offer foreigners, besides nightlife and cheap sex.

RickThai

Please remember that when you read these forums - you do not see a balanced view.

No one has started a thread on how great life is here, and no one has started a thread on "I never got beaten up this year!" (I am sure to be corrected if they have!)

The majority of these threads seem to be requests for help or information, or people just getting things 'off their chest'.

I have never been attacked or threatened whilst out shopping, then again I do not speak to adolescent school girls.

I do smile and talk to little kids and the parents are always happy and proud of their rug-rats and ankle biters.

We live on a holiday resort. The very nature of this beast is that we have more of the 'low-life' than other Thai areas. The same is true of most mass holiday destinations.

Most of my friends and I rarely go into Chewang. There is lots to do without going there.

The comments about the global economy are very true and it is hitting Samui big time. The business owners in Chewang and other tourist spots are hurting - Thai and foreign. High rents and lower sales. Foreign business owners can move on if things get bad. Thais have nowhere else to go. When people are desperate, they do desperate things.

I suspect that until the economy picks up, things will get worse for a while, and crime will become more of a problem.

Be careful and do not assume that every smiling face loves you. There are still thousands of nice people out there. It's just that no one writes about them.

Personally I would rather weather an economic storm here on Samui than in Birmingham, London, Manchester etc. There have been no riots here yet!

Well said.

[parallaxtech]

"then again I do not speak to adolescent school girls. I do smile and talk to little kids and the parents are always happy and proud of their rug-rats and ankle biters."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the post and I agree that there are more good things about Samui than bad; otherwise, I would live somewhere else. I do take threats very seriously,though, and would definitely consider moving if it happened again.

I speak to anyone working in a store as this is the correct and polite thing to do. Adolescence is roughly 12-19 so I assume you don't speak to anyone in that age bracket? Then you mention that you speak to kids, which is also within that range. I think what you are saying is that you don't speak to anyone under the age of 18 without a parent nearby. Anyone with a daughter out there under the age of 19 ask them how many strangers speak to them a day. They probably won't answer you, because they don't want to frighten you. This is the information age. People of all ages talk with others of all ages and I would be appalled if there were ever a restriction on this.

[losworld]

Just a few observations having traveled various areas of Thailand (by no means an expert) but I certainly felt the southern areas such as Samui/Phuket were less friendly and more dangerous than say for instance Bangkok or Pattaya. The southern areas of Koh Samui and Phuket are unique in their isolation and perhaps it is somewhat similar to the resentment shown in Hawaii by locals. Maybe when one lives and one's family has lived in an area for generations and are not transplants like many working in Pattaya or Bkok then the disparity in wealth becomes more apparent plus the fact one is losing their land or great portions of it to foreigners. Another factor may be the close grouping of locals and the "mafia" effect of organizing to take advantage of visitors.

I also believe Thai males are becoming more assertive and aggressive. In the past they may have felt resentment but did not show it. Now they are showing it.

And of course for many how long can one stand by and watch foreigners take their women?

As per the current post although the poster had no ill intention probably not a good idea to start chatting up a sixteen year old.

[carmine]

Just a few observations having traveled various areas of Thailand (by no means an expert) but I certainly felt the southern areas such as Samui/Phuket were less friendly and more dangerous than say for instance Bangkok or Pattaya. The southern areas of Koh Samui and Phuket are unique in their isolation and perhaps it is somewhat similar to the resentment shown in Hawaii by locals. Maybe when one lives and one's family has lived in an area for generations and are not transplants like many working in Pattaya or Bkok then the disparity in wealth becomes more apparent plus the fact one is losing their land or great portions of it to foreigners. Another factor may be the close grouping of locals and the "mafia" effect of organizing to take advantage of visitors.

I also believe Thai males are becoming more assertive and aggressive. In the past they may have felt resentment but did not show it. Now they are showing it.

And of course for many how long can one stand by and watch foreigners take their women?

As per the current post although the poster had no ill intention probably not a good idea to start chatting up a sixteen year old.

Good well thought out post

[itishothere]

I thought there were many 'transplants' here in Samui. Seldom do I come across someone born here. Most seem to come from Isaan - on a temporary basis at least.

And losing their land to foreigners? They seem very happy to sell it at very high prices. Maybe they regret selling it earlier, but only because they would get more for it now.

The comparison with Pattaya I think is interesting. How many of the young 'girls' there are working the streets/bars, with either the approval of their parents, or in cases, with their parents insistence? I would guess the numbers of girls here working this way is lower in percentage terms, and so it is likely than associations with older farangs is more unusual and could be seen as threatening.

I think the wealth effect is important - ie the difference between those that have it, and those that do not. It is very noticable in Samui, but is not entirely weighted towards the farangs. There are some very wealthy families here, running very profitable businesses. Maybe the wronged cannot take it out on the Thais (face/status/etc) and so pick on the those they can - the farang.

I think that the isolation is an important factor. But here that manifests itself in relative lawlessness. People on Samui seem to be able to do whatever they want. What the OP experienced might not happen in Bangkok, because the police would likely take action. But of course, the more politically correct nature of Bangkok would mean that the OP might not have spoken to the girl in the first place!

[starcandle]

Come on guys everyone knows the score here, if your driving down a oneway street in the correct direction complete with driving license and insurance, then a Thai travelling in the wrong direction, no insurance licence and drunk as a lord, he bumps into you,

guess what!! the farang is 100% to blame, however you will only have to pay 1500 baht for the hole in his tee shirt and 2500 for the puncture in his motorbike, "cheep for falang". and the local police will back him up for his mormal cut.

I have a very good friend here in K S and I have told him on several occasions now, regards his behaviour around young children, he will call them over when we are sat outside Bars and buy them a soda, thing is, I know he's being nice but

unfortunately in todays world enviroment it's not seen in a good light when a strange adult shows any form of kindness or interest in youngsters.

It's a very sad state of affairs as every NORMAL adult should see it as his duty to look out for and protect any child in any circumstance.

[BigC]

I thought there were many 'transplants' here in Samui. Seldom do I come across someone born here. Most seem to come from Isaan - on a temporary basis at least.

And losing their land to foreigners? They seem very happy to sell it at very high prices. Maybe they regret selling it earlier, but only because they would get more for it now.

The comparison with Pattaya I think is interesting. How many of the young 'girls' there are working the streets/bars, with either the approval of their parents, or in cases, with their parents insistence? I would guess the numbers of girls here working this way is lower in percentage terms, and so it is likely than associations with older farangs is more unusual and could be seen as threatening.

I think the wealth effect is important - ie the difference between those that have it, and those that do not. It is very noticable in Samui, but is not entirely weighted towards the farangs. There are some very wealthy families here, running very profitable businesses. Maybe the wronged cannot take it out on the Thais (face/status/etc) and so pick on the those they can - the farang.

I think that the isolation is an important factor. But here that manifests itself in relative lawlessness. People on Samui seem to be able to do whatever they want. What the OP experienced might not happen in Bangkok, because the police would likely take action. But of course, the more politically correct nature of Bangkok would mean that the OP might not have spoken to the girl in the first place!

i muat admit that i get pissed off when locals finger point the forangs for chopping down trees and building luxury houses.

In some cases if they did not like it they did not have to sell their land. if they sold it because their neibour sold their land and they did not want to live next to their neibours then that is not the fault of the new people.

In the cases where illegal plots of land were sold. how could the forangs do this with out thai help.

One thai woman told me that there is only mafia on samui because there are forangs there. so there we go again. in that case forangs must the mafia???

but we are not.

we get the finger pointed at us because it is easy. Thai people can make bigger problems for other thai people.

where as blame the forang is like blaming the nobody just a bit of stresss releif.

yet we pay for thais to live confortabley.

I do love this country but sometimes it does fustrate me. There again as much as i complain i am more angry with my own country because where i am from i feel i like a man with no idenity. at least i can understand that the thais want to make a better life for there own people only when they themselves are sorted then they can help aliens.

unfortualty back home. we put aliens before ourselves with out choice. i would love to charge a foreigner in the UK more than an english citizern.

back home that would seem crazy to even think that but here it is normal and why not. we are guests here after all

[limbos]

Just a few observations having traveled various areas of Thailand (by no means an expert) but I certainly felt the southern areas such as Samui/Phuket were less friendly and more dangerous than say for instance Bangkok or Pattaya. The southern areas of Koh Samui and Phuket are unique in their isolation and perhaps it is somewhat similar to the resentment shown in Hawaii by locals. Maybe when one lives and one's family has lived in an area for generations and are not transplants like many working in Pattaya or Bkok then the disparity in wealth becomes more apparent plus the fact one is losing their land or great portions of it to foreigners. Another factor may be the close grouping of locals and the "mafia" effect of organizing to take advantage of visitors.

I also believe Thai males are becoming more assertive and aggressive. In the past they may have felt resentment but did not show it. Now they are showing it.

And of course for many how long can one stand by and watch foreigners take their women?

As per the current post although the poster had no ill intention probably not a good idea to start chatting up a sixteen year old.

Locals are not losing their land, they get very well paid for it by both Thais and most certainly not only by Westerners. I don't think neither that Thai males had resentment which they never showed, not much changed imho.

Watch foreigners take their women? What planet do you live on? I seriously wonder how many Thai women are married to foreigners and how many say they never want anything to do with a Thai bloke, not saying that they will run the nearest one Ever heard of a 'Meng da' and the hundreds of stories where the Westerner visits his 'fiancee' and the 'brother' lives in the same house?

Sorry, but you bring on very shaky arguments, imho.

[PoorSucker]

Just a few observations having traveled various areas of Thailand (by no means an expert) but I certainly felt the southern areas such as Samui/Phuket were less friendly and more dangerous than say for instance Bangkok or Pattaya. The southern areas of Koh Samui and Phuket are unique in their isolation and perhaps it is somewhat similar to the resentment shown in Hawaii by locals. Maybe when one lives and one's family has lived in an area for generations and are not transplants like many working in Pattaya or Bkok then the disparity in wealth becomes more apparent plus the fact one is losing their land or great portions of it to foreigners. Another factor may be the close grouping of locals and the "mafia" effect of organizing to take advantage of visitors.

I also believe Thai males are becoming more assertive and aggressive. In the past they may have felt resentment but did not show it. Now they are showing it.

And of course for many how long can one stand by and watch foreigners take their women?

As per the current post although the poster had no ill intention probably not a good idea to start chatting up a sixteen year old.

"traveled various areas of Thailand (by no means an expert)"

You got one thing right. :sleepy:

[ozzieovaseas]

During the time I have been here (five years), I have noticed that a great many of the farang men here are not the same as the typical guy back home (US). Many here tend to be loud and boisterous in public and complain to their friends in their loud voices that ALL Thais are stupid, dishonest and incompetent. Thais don't know how to have a good time; Thais eat food not fit for dogs; Thais should learn to speak English, etc. This is done with a complete disregard for the fact that many Thais around them may understand English. Many of the allegations made by farangs may be true in some cases, but that is not the point. When in a dispute with a shop keeper, these farangs will berate and yell until the shop keeper gives him what he wants just to make him go away. Many farangs take pride in their ability to "not take this bullshit from these Thais." They take pride in screaming the Thai profanities they have learned, which are shocking and would never even be uttered in public by most Thais. Many shop keepers probably deserve every bit of it, but again, that's not the point. Thai women seem to overwhelmingly prefer farang men over Thai men. I understand the reason, but one more time, that's not the point.

In the States, everybody is pissed off at the Mexicans, with one of the biggest complaints, aside from their actual presence, is that they haven't bothered to learn English. Hmmmm.

What absolutely amazes me is my level of acceptance (or at least apparent acceptance) from most Thais. Every single one of you reading this has observed these behaviors and may be guilty of them. Although I admit I have been guilty of some of the behaviors listed above, I deplore them. They give us all a black eye. When my friend starts ranting and raving in a restaurant, it is a reflection on me.

If I were a Thai, especially a Thai man, I would hate farangs. I feel lucky that most of them don't seem to think like that. If most Thais formed the judgments I would form about these "outsiders" acting this way in my country, I guess I couldn't even be here; the joy would be gone out of it. We are pretty lucky "they" are NOT like "us."

You make some very good points here..i'd reckon pretty much spot on

[carmine]

Come on guys everyone knows the score here, if your driving down a oneway street in the correct direction complete with driving license and insurance, then a Thai travelling in the wrong direction, no insurance licence and drunk as a lord, he bumps into you,

guess what!! the farang is 100% to blame, however you will only have to pay 1500 baht for the hole in his tee shirt and 2500 for the puncture in his motorbike, "cheep for falang". and the local police will back him up for his mormal cut.

I have a very good friend here in K S and I have told him on several occasions now, regards his behaviour around young children, he will call them over when we are sat outside Bars and buy them a soda, thing is, I know he's being nice but

unfortunately in todays world enviroment it's not seen in a good light when a strange adult shows any form of kindness or interest in youngsters.

It's a very sad state of affairs as every NORMAL adult should see it as his duty to look out for and protect any child in any circumstance.

It is a sad state of affairs when you can't even smile ans chat to kids but unfortunately thats the way it is.

As for the rest of your post yes, you're totally correct and what a sad, dismal reflection of the people. They really don't help themselves but then again they don't care what we think. There is a form a inbred xenophobia here which stretches to rewarding locals who have broken laws with seeming impunity, and a clear enjoyment in ripping off foreigners. Conning and stealing from foreigners here is seen more as a sport than criminal activity.

[carmine]

During the time I have been here (five years), I have noticed that a great many of the farang men here are not the same as the typical guy back home (US). Many here tend to be loud and boisterous in public and complain to their friends in their loud voices that ALL Thais are stupid, dishonest and incompetent. Thais don't know how to have a good time; Thais eat food not fit for dogs; Thais should learn to speak English, etc. This is done with a complete disregard for the fact that many Thais around them may understand English. Many of the allegations made by farangs may be true in some cases, but that is not the point. When in a dispute with a shop keeper, these farangs will berate and yell until the shop keeper gives him what he wants just to make him go away. Many farangs take pride in their ability to "not take this bullshit from these Thais." They take pride in screaming the Thai profanities they have learned, which are shocking and would never even be uttered in public by most Thais. Many shop keepers probably deserve every bit of it, but again, that's not the point. Thai women seem to overwhelmingly prefer farang men over Thai men. I understand the reason, but one more time, that's not the point.

In the States, everybody is pissed off at the Mexicans, with one of the biggest complaints, aside from their actual presence, is that they haven't bothered to learn English. Hmmmm.

What absolutely amazes me is my level of acceptance (or at least apparent acceptance) from most Thais. Every single one of you reading this has observed these behaviors and may be guilty of them. Although I admit I have been guilty of some of the behaviors listed above, I deplore them. They give us all a black eye. When my friend starts ranting and raving in a restaurant, it is a reflection on me.

If I were a Thai, especially a Thai man, I would hate farangs. I feel lucky that most of them don't seem to think like that. If most Thais formed the judgments I would form about these "outsiders" acting this way in my country, I guess I couldn't even be here; the joy would be gone out of it. We are pretty lucky "they" are NOT like "us."

You make some very good points here..i'd reckon pretty much spot on

There's a few good points and some very short sighted views.

Interesting, why would you "hate" foreigners? What a silly thing to say. I never take a post too seriously either when someone is so liberal with the word hate.

Let me tell you, there are many many Thais here that have made fortunes off foreigners. They live better lives, ca provide more for their children off the back of job creation from expats and tourists. Foreigners have massively increased the wealth, the employment levels, the value of land etc.

So no, i wouldn't hate foreigners. On the contrary, i'd be very bloody thankful to them.

I have also noted on countless occasions how much better the expat residents take care of the environment and partake in the use of rubbish bins.

So, before you start suggesting foreigners should be hated why don't you take a look at the bigger picture

Edited October 9, 2011 by carmine

[richard_smith237]

During the time I have been here (five years), I have noticed that a great many of the farang men here are not the same as the typical guy back home (US). Many here tend to be loud and boisterous in public and complain to their friends in their loud voices that ALL Thais are stupid, dishonest and incompetent. Thais don't know how to have a good time; Thais eat food not fit for dogs; Thais should learn to speak English, etc. This is done with a complete disregard for the fact that many Thais around them may understand English. Many of the allegations made by farangs may be true in some cases, but that is not the point. When in a dispute with a shop keeper, these farangs will berate and yell until the shop keeper gives him what he wants just to make him go away. Many farangs take pride in their ability to "not take this bullshit from these Thais." They take pride in screaming the Thai profanities they have learned, which are shocking and would never even be uttered in public by most Thais. Many shop keepers probably deserve every bit of it, but again, that's not the point. Thai women seem to overwhelmingly prefer farang men over Thai men. I understand the reason, but one more time, that's not the point.

In the States, everybody is pissed off at the Mexicans, with one of the biggest complaints, aside from their actual presence, is that they haven't bothered to learn English. Hmmmm.

What absolutely amazes me is my level of acceptance (or at least apparent acceptance) from most Thais. Every single one of you reading this has observed these behaviors and may be guilty of them. Although I admit I have been guilty of some of the behaviors listed above, I deplore them. They give us all a black eye. When my friend starts ranting and raving in a restaurant, it is a reflection on me.

If I were a Thai, especially a Thai man, I would hate farangs. I feel lucky that most of them don't seem to think like that. If most Thais formed the judgments I would form about these "outsiders" acting this way in my country, I guess I couldn't even be here; the joy would be gone out of it. We are pretty lucky "they" are NOT like "us."

You make some very good points here..i'd reckon pretty much spot on

There's a few good points and some very short sighted views.

Interesting, why would you "hate" foreigners? What a silly thing to say. I never take a post too seriously either when someone is so liberal with the word hate.

Let me tell you, there are many many Thais here that have made fortunes off foreigners. They live better lives, ca provide more for their children off the back of job creation from expats and tourists. Foreigners have massively increased the wealth, the employment levels, the value of land etc.

So no, i wouldn't hate foreigners. On the contrary, i'd be very bloody thankful to them.

I have also noted on countless occasions how much better the expat residents take care of the environment and partake in the use of rubbish bins.

So, before you start suggesting foreigners should be hated why don't you take a look at the bigger picture

I think the excellent and valid points that TongueThaied made were not regarding what Thai's 'should' be thinking of foreigners, but what they actually 'do' think of foreigners, not as a result of the benefits we bring but simply as a result of the behavior of perhaps only a handfull.... Unfortunately in tourist area's it's likely we get tarred by the very same brush of those who's actions we deplore.

An Italian when someone asked his name:........ "I make'a da wonderful suit, I cut'a de clof with skill and wonder, I make'a da hundreds of suit and make da people very happy... But still, they don't call me Luigi the Taylor.... I only make'a da one mistake'a and they only ever call me Luigi the goat fuka"

Moral: It doesn't matter what good we do, as westerners we will be recognised and remembered most by our lowest common denominator.....

Edited October 9, 2011 by richard_smith237

[grumpyoldman]

Maybe said Thai man was just flat out fed up with farangs hitting on his daughter...............maybe didn't have an understanding of English, so what was innocent seemed not.

Seems a bit of a stretch to make this one instance an overall blanket "Aggressiveness towards farangs".