vicbkk Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 "All you do is fill the glass with SAWDUST then slowly add the 2 pints of water" Surely there is something more hitech than sawdust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Any boat news?? Or have we entered the " stop all news and hope people forget soon" stage ?? Don't we wish we have entered the 'forget soon' stage. Not the case, however. Thai TV this morning was showing video of many more Phraya-pumping boats this morning and were saying that the government had managed to put 1000 on-line and were asking the public to volunteer even more. The civilians' fuel would be reimbursed. The segment's video showed many, what-looked-like, 10-15 meter vessels tied abreast in groups of 5 or 6 as well as a few separate boats. The motorized bath tubs were not to be seen ... or they were so small I missed them. Not sure of the video's location(s). For you photographers feeling rambunctious today, this has got to be one of the best Phraya photo-ops of the great Bangkok almost-flood of 2011 (or NOT). One of the shots appeared to be close to the Rama 8 bridge. If you go, Good Luck finding the boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 PM presides over launch of 1,028 boats helping to speed up water drainage out to sea at Phra Nangklao Bridge at 10am/ TAN_Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETatBKK Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 seeing is believing - it is just too creative, and just too pure creative ! what would be the total effect of these little boats ? or the propellers are driving the water to another direction ? hold . . . it is live on tv channels now ! brb . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Well they've used this method before and they said it "worked" - don't know how they measured that!! 55 Anyway the rived through BKK is around 2-30m deep, the'd be lucking to be acceleration the top metre of two, then only for a short distance. The tides going out so at least they got the timing right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckarooBanzai Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 What a wonderful example of Thai wishful thinking in action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Well they've used this method before and they said it "worked" - don't know how they measured that!! 55 Anyway the rived through BKK is around 2-30m deep, the'd be lucking to be acceleration the top metre of two, then only for a short distance. The tides going out so at least they got the timing right Yes in order to get " results", I would think the cornerstone of this operation would be to start it at the end of high tide. For sure they would not start it at the beginning of low tide...... I am watching it on Thai news right now. Since it will be impossible to quantify the results either good or bad, I guess there will not be a lot of face lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Watching the live feed from Thai TV, you have to give them credit for, 'Looking busy while accomplishing nothing'. The orange flags on the boats and the scramble egg embroidery on the ball caps does keep everyone in their place. The jet ski's seemed to be on a mission of their own, with little organization as a group. The canopied tourist boats with the outboard motors will make up in numbers what they lack in horsepower and prop size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) PM Yingluck launched operation Clutch-it life on television it seems. The aim is to increase the flow of water in Chao Phraya, Bang Prakong and Tha Chin. Our Science & Technology Minister Plodprasop seems to have said that this operation is believed to increase flow to the Gulf by about 50 million cubic meters a day. Now let me get my calculator. Chao Phraya, say 4000 m3/second (probably closer to 5000 at the moment though), is 345.6 million m3/day. No idea what the other two rivers carry. Assume both together the same as the Chao Phraya. So this operation is believed to increase the amount of water drained by 7.5%. Sure this will give some people a good feeling. Difficult to proof, so one way or another it is working Last forecast I read was by mid-November all should be back to normal. Any change with the success of operation Clutch-it? (edit: add: The Bang Pra-in Industrial Estate in Ayutthaya province is now 100 per cent flooded and the water in the estate is about 1.80 metres deep, Somwang Thungsuwan said.) Edited October 16, 2011 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 More than 1,000 boats speed outflow of three rivers into sea to brace for coming flood water NONTHABURI, Oct 16 – More than 1,000 boats from state and private agencies on Sunday joined in an operation to push water along three rivers into the ocean on Sunday to brace for floodwater from upstream Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra presided over the start of the operations Sunday morning. Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi said that on the Chao Phraya River in Nonthaburi, about 500 boats are taking part in the operation from Phra Nangklao Bridge to the estuary, another 300 boats will work on the Bangprakong River and the other 300 boats in the Tha Chin River. The operation is being conducted in preparation for the upcoming floodwater from Pathum Thani and Ayutthaya set to arrive in Bangkok on Sunday. The National Flood Relief Centre said Saturday that a huge volume of water from Ayutthaya is to arrive in Bangkok on Sunday. The northern run-off from Ayutthaya, combined with the high estuary tide, is forecast to raise the water level in the Chao Phraya River to about 2.30 metres, whereas flood walls in Bangkok are about 2.50 metres high on average, said the centre. The Prime Minister ordered agencies concerned to speed up draining water from the Chao Phraya River as soon as possible. (MCOT online news) -- TNA 2011-10-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Absolutely barking mad! The boats would be better used ferrying people and supplies. The Science Minister is living on a different planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I can only shake my head in disbelief and pity at this spectacle of ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenitynow Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I can only shake my head in disbelief and pity at this spectacle of ignorance. I imagine they'll be calling you and other aviators in when the need to take strong measures against an impending wind storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The laughable thing is, is as the tide starts to go down and the river level drops by 10cm they will claim that Operation Clutch-it or is it Crutch-it has been an overwhelming success and many many Thai people will believe it. Yes lets get a 100 helicopters to blow away the next thunderstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Yingluck, in her Commodore ball cap, is, like Helen of Troy, the face that launched a thousand ships... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXbPvYpEFFM . Edited October 16, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 PM launches locally pooled efforts to drive excessive run-off to the sea NONTHABURI, 16 October 2011 (NNT) - Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra presided over the official launch of ships destined to help speed up the flow of excessive water from the upper Chao Phraya River into the sea. The ceremony took place at Phra Nang Klao Bridge. The water diversion is one of the government's all-out efforts to prevent the capital and most of the central provinces from further damage caused by floods. More than 1,000 ships belonging to various government agencies and private bodies, including the Marine Department, the Fisheries Department, the Thai Ship Owners Association and civil volunteers have participated in the mission which will continue every day until the flood crisis dies down. The mission is taking place simultaneously at three major rivers, namely the Chao Phraya, the Tha Chin and the Ban Pakong. -- NNT 2011-10-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 At the news conference, Science Minister Plodprasop said that the 1,000+ plus ships in 3 rivers would be running their engines at all times. It's a good thing that diesel is so cheap otherwise this might be an expensive farce. 1,000 diesels (including some extremely large ones) running 24/7 shouldn't require that much fuel, right? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKvampire Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 just seen it on TV , one big photo opportunity with naval and military alongside If you need an example of the pathetic incompetence this is it, surely there are engineers or scientists of some standing in this country to tell them the stupidity of this.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seri Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 You would think one expert would come out and say on tv that we're wasting loads of money on fuel but no. I mean what can 1,000 boats or 1,000,000 boats do other than just create some movement on the surface of the river for only a few meters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 A few minutes ago this was on the news. They were showing footage from today on the Chao Phraya and I kid you not, there was a guy on a (expletive deleted) JETSKI in the middle of the river as part of the "effort". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 That is our tax-money that is paying for his joyride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 A few minutes ago this was on the news. They were showing footage from today on the Chao Phraya and I kid you not, there was a guy on a (expletive deleted) JETSKI in the middle of the river as part of the "effort". They should have brought in a lot more from Phuket and Pattaya and we could have an all-out scam fest on the Chao Phraya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 just seen it on TV , one big photo opportunity with naval and military alongside If you need an example of the pathetic incompetence this is it, surely there are engineers or scientists of some standing in this country to tell them the stupidity of this.? Amazingly, I haven't seen a single such voice in any of the news media coverage on this charade.... Dunno if no one wants to tell them publicly they're half cocked for fear of retribution...or whether the news media are just ignoring anyone who would call silliness by its true name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenitynow Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) At the news conference, Science Minister Plodprasop said that the 1,000+ plus ships in 3 rivers would be running their engines at all times. It's a good thing that diesel is so cheap otherwise this might be an expensive farce. 1,000 diesels (including some extremely large ones) running 24/7 shouldn't require that much fuel, right? . Actually, it is only the extremely large ones that might hope to do some good. Assuming they can make relative way far in excess of the prevailing current of course and that there are hundreds more in line with them till it reaches the mouth of the river.. Edited October 16, 2011 by serenitynow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) I mean what can 1,000 boats or 1,000,000 boats do other than just create some movement on the surface of the river for only a few meters? I believe their hypothesis is that the accelerated water will transfer, through friction, its higher kinetic energy to the slower river water, increasing its kinetic energy by increasing its velocity and temperature. This transfer might occur in only a few meters, but it must occur. To me, this was the intent, but as most of us seem to, I question the method's efficacy as well. One poster was of the opinion that the primary component of the energy transfer would be increased temperature of the river water (beyond what will occur with the engine cooling transfer - an 'Unintended Consequence'). I would hope that people with a deeper knowledge of the physics of fluid dynamics of co-existing, velocity-differentiated, directed fluid streams (water) would comment on this. I'm waiting for the scientific/engineering paper on this from the Ministry of Science and Technology. Do you think I'll have to wait very long? Minister Suraswadi, perhaps you could add your 02 satang? Edited October 16, 2011 by MaxYakov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 just seen it on TV , one big photo opportunity with naval and military alongside If you need an example of the pathetic incompetence this is it, surely there are engineers or scientists of some standing in this country to tell them the stupidity of this.? Amazingly, I haven't seen a single such voice in any of the news media coverage on this charade.... Dunno if no one wants to tell them publicly they're half cocked for fear of retribution...or whether the news media are just ignoring anyone who would call silliness by its true name. Hans Christian Anderson knew why in 1837. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenitynow Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I mean what can 1,000 boats or 1,000,000 boats do other than just create some movement on the surface of the river for only a few meters? I believe their hypothesis is that the accelerated water will transfer, through friction, its higher kinetic energy to the slower river water, increasing its kinetic energy by increasing its velocity and temperature. This transfer might occur in only a few meters, but it must occur. To me, this was the intent, but as most of us seem to, I question the method's efficacy as well. One poster was of the opinion that the primary component of the energy transfer would be increased temperature of the river water (beyond what will occur with the engine cooling transfer - an 'Unintended Consequence'). I would hope that people with a deeper knowledge of the physics of fluid dynamics of co-existing, velocity-differentiated, directed fluid streams (water) would comment on this. I'm waiting for the scientific/engineering paper on this from the Ministry of Science and Technology. Do you think I'll have to wait very long? Minister Suraswadi, perhaps you could add your 02 satang? Actually I know alot about this as I am a ship's Master. I'm not going to write you a treatise on it howver as it is in all practicality a horrible idea. IF the channel could not erode and was equidepth and equiwidth till it's mouth, and IF Bow cushion and Stern suction phenomena din't occur, and IF ships with huge propellers could make revolutions far in excess of the current, and IF there were more of these ships lined up every few hundred meters till the river's mouth, then MAYBE you might see some tangible accelleration of the river flow. What you would also see is a wave, that may or may not be contained by the channel. It's a stupid fuc_king idea, but I guess it makes people feel like they're doing something. I could write 8 pages more on it, but what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxYakov Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) I mean what can 1,000 boats or 1,000,000 boats do other than just create some movement on the surface of the river for only a few meters? I believe their hypothesis is that the accelerated water will transfer, through friction, its higher kinetic energy to the slower river water, increasing its kinetic energy by increasing its velocity and temperature. This transfer might occur in only a few meters, but it must occur. To me, this was the intent, but as most of us seem to, I question the method's efficacy as well. One poster was of the opinion that the primary component of the energy transfer would be increased temperature of the river water (beyond what will occur with the engine cooling transfer - an 'Unintended Consequence'). I would hope that people with a deeper knowledge of the physics of fluid dynamics of co-existing, velocity-differentiated, directed fluid streams (water) would comment on this. I'm waiting for the scientific/engineering paper on this from the Ministry of Science and Technology. Do you think I'll have to wait very long? Minister Suraswadi, perhaps you could add your 02 satang? Actually I know alot about this as I am a ship's Master. I'm not going to write you a treatise on it howver as it is in all practicality a horrible idea. IF the channel could not erode and was equidepth and equiwidth till it's mouth, and IF Bow cushion and Stern suction phenomena din't occur, and IF ships with huge propellers could make revolutions far in excess of the current, and IF there were more of these ships lined up every few hundred meters till the river's mouth, then MAYBE you might see some tangible accelleration of the river flow. What you would also see is a wave, that may or may not be contained by the channel. It's a stupid fuc_king idea, but I guess it makes people feel like they're doing something. I could write 8 pages more on it, but what's the point? Thanks. Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post. OK, so we'll have to improve on this kludge with something more efficient and practical in the future. I'm thinking a submerged, 500 meter-in-diameter (give or take), variable speed, turbine-driven water-accelerator ... or several. There is the perplexing problem of sheathing the entire channel with concrete or other suitable material for, probably several thousand meters, though. This should be a cinch. Volvo did virtually the same thing with their fuel-cooled, in-line fuel pump years ago. Let's think outside the river here! To the chagrin of the Greenies, we could probably eliminate the possibility of powering these monsters with wind or solar (I hope). Maybe nuclear-powered? Should we let Minister Suraswadi and his team work out the details or give it to ... give it to ... is there a Ministry of Engineering? The Science seems to be 'settled' by consensus. Edited October 16, 2011 by MaxYakov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Thanks. Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post. OK, so we'll have to improve on this kludge with something more efficient and practical in the future. I'm thinking a submerged, 500 meter-in-diameter (give or take), variable speed, turbine-driven water-accelerator ... or several. There is the perplexing problem of sheathing the entire channel with concrete or other suitable material for, probably several thousand meters, though. This should be a cinch. Volvo did virtually the same thing with their fuel-cooled, in-line fuel pump years ago. Let's think outside the river here! To the chagrin of the Greenies, we could probably eliminate the possibility of powering these monsters with wind or solar (I hope). Maybe nuclear-powered? Should we let Minister Suraswadi and his team work out the details or give it to ... give it to ... is there a Ministry of Engineering? The Science seems to be 'settled' by consensus. I guess that would be under Minister Plodprasop. He runs (?) the Science and Technology department Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yingluck spoke just after presiding over a ceremony in which an armada of more than 1000 small boats stationed in dozens of spots on the Chao Phraya turned on their engines in an effort to help propel water down the river. It wasn't immediately clear what impact the effort would have. - Associated Press / Oct. 17, 2011 http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/5795084/Barriers-hold-Bangkok-flooding-at-bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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