627 Bangkok Communities Under Water

[hammered]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

If the military could be trusted to function in a true 'civil defence' mode, the state of emergency could be the way to go. But with their history of brutality? One thing is for sure, the already tragic death toll would increase dramatically.

Then there is also the prospect of getting them out once the crisis has past.

Bad call. .. unless they unarmed.

Well the US Marines are going to be here shortly working on flood relief and Yingluck is going to look pretty stupid if she doesn't allow the Thai military to help.

The Thai military are actively involved in operations of relief right now but under civilian control. This isnt about whether they do anything or not but who is best at overseeing it all linked of course to the usual politics of now and recent times. There are also a variety of volunteer and civilian groups involved and the whole lot needs to be controlled by some body. Squabbling in public over what body is not helpful

[hammered]

If the military feel a state of emergency is needed they should be quietly behind the scenes informing the PM and relevant ministers and not making pubklic statements.

So you, Jayboy and the gov can deny it ever happened? Now everyone knows what was put on the table.

There is also enough confusing information, weird acts and outright panicky and bizarre news stories out there /../

And that's just from the government side alone!

Its about getting things done not about what was put on the table. At the end of the day the government are accountable to the people for their actions and mistakes and correct decisions. That includes the flood

[Credo]

The thing is that the military doesn't like to take orders. That's true in most places, but the big difference is that most militaries operate in foreign countries, well out of the sight of the politicians.

The military likes giving orders; not taking them.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Credo

[Scott]

OK, I lied. My last post wasn't my sole attempt at keeping this thread on-topic. A number of off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

There will be plenty of time to argue purely political matters after the current crisis is over. For now, please stick a little closer to the topic of the thread.

[OzMick]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

If the military could be trusted to function in a true 'civil defence' mode, the state of emergency could be the way to go. But with their history of brutality? One thing is for sure, the already tragic death toll would increase dramatically.

Then there is also the prospect of getting them out once the crisis has past.

Bad call. .. unless they unarmed.

Have you not seen the photos of dripping wet troops stacking sandbags? Were they armed?

It is obvious that you are not in a position where assistance might be required, but you still see the need to spit on help that may save lives. Most of these boys are conscripts - many will be working in their home provinces BUT " One thing is for sure, the already tragic death toll would increase dramatically. "

Within forum rules, I cannot express my contempt for such a stupid statement.

[amphur]

Is there any link to actually watch video of the flood areas in Bankok proper anywhere

The whole day on Thai tv.

TNN 24

http://www.tnnthailand.com/player.php

[sjjmmi]

Thanks

Is there any link to actually watch video of the flood areas in Bankok proper anywhere

The whole day on Thai tv.

TNN 24

http://www.tnnthailand.com/player.php

[evanson]

And that was my sole attempt to keep the thread from running completely off-topic.

TV is being hijacked by political extremists. Is there nothing that can be done to cut down the constant repetitive slander generated by those members who are so blinded by the colors of red and yellow that they cannot carry on a sensible discussion. These posts rarely include any factual information to add to an intelligent discussion and really diminish the content of the thread for the rest of us.

+1 I too am getting tired of dragging politics (overwhelmingly by the anti Red brigade)into each and every topic, barring sin sod. Particularly pointless when those doing so have no vote. It makes for a very long and boring read for those of us attempting to ascertain the facts.

[hansnl]

so the military wants more power under an " emergency decree" . Can somone explain to me how just saying "OK now its an emergency" will make anything change. will the water suddenly run off faster. Will people instantly all get a boat to go to dry ground with? Just doesnt make sense to me. If there is assistance that the military, goverment or anyone can give what does it matter if they call a "state of emergency" or call it a dam BBQ dinner for that matter. It seems to me the military just wants to have special powers to phuk with people. maybe they will find someone they can blame the floods on and take care of him with a snipers round. Wouldnt they all be so proud then!

As for the people that are having to deal with flooded houses I feel there pain and hope all turns out well. eventually the water will go away and things will get back to " normal".

Some understanding needed, I guess.

It is quite normal the military are allowed to operate freely (meaning: using military equipment) under emergency rules.

Under civilian, non emergencey rule, army staff and material cannot be used.

It might mean they steal work from civilians (read profit for the happy few)

Now suppose the military would come out of the barracks uninvited, that might be construed as a coupe.

If they come out invited, under emergency rule for example, no coupe.

Anyway, maybe, just maybe, the soldiers might be able to do some constructive work, the government of the day is panicking.

[kimamey]

And Black is White. Thai police responsible for many more deaths of innocents than could ever be attributed to the military.

Hey, anyway, here's to the resourcefulness and spirit of the Thai people, who find ways to mange despite their government having abandoned them to their fate. Some incredible pictures here:

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=wo_c2

Good link. Thanks for that.

The last picture is particularly good.

[arthurwait]

and still, the baht remains unchanged.

Food in the market where my g/f lives and her mother grows and seels her farm products, prices have at least doubled on everything she sells. She is located on high ground, no flooding. How can Baht remain the same when up to half the country's industry is shut down for one reason or another, and costs are starting to soar for the more of basic items, FOOD.

Half the countries industry isn't shut down as the parts of Bangkok where industry happen aren't flooded and nor is Chonburi or Rayong province. What Industry outside of those places apart from tourism and rice is there ? Apart from people profitering from others misery in the country where have food prices risen ?

Edited October 15, 2011 by arthurwait

[arthurwait]

Over the years that I was in Thailand, numerous times when upcountry I heard of rich Bangkok people buying land upcountry that was way above sea level... the city is below sea level with most of the original canals that allowed the water to flow away filled in, it is inevitable that the place will eventually implode and turn to dust - all those skyscrapers are built on poor quality soil that is continually inundated by water and they will fall down one by one. Fantastic energetic city but built on ether, may survive this flood and the next but eventually the whole infrastructure will go bang.

Hi Nostradamus.

[maidu]

Lest we forget: here's a news item from June 2010, just 15 months ago titled;

Thailand Could Face Its Worst Drought In 20 Years

"The prime minister (Abhisit) has urged the Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives Ministry to come up with plans to tackle the ongoing drought, which is considered the worst in two decades.Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva expressed his concern about the drought situation in Thailand, saying that it could be the worst in 20 years." continued..........

Maidu's comment: drought/flood/drought/flood ....year after year. Only, the extreme fluctuations are getting worse year by year. Why? Because voracious development is pouring cement and asphalt over immense tracts of terrain that used to be fields and farms. There hasn't been exceptionally more rain this year, it's just that there's a lot less ground and trees for soaking up water. Guess which families are at the top of the heap re; investing in sprawling new real estate compounds? Yup, it's the Shinawatres and other Chinese/Thai families. Up where I live, it's the Sinthanee family (also from China), which build 2 to 3 gargantuan cookie cutter house estates per year.

[h90]

and still, the baht remains unchanged.

Food in the market where my g/f lives and her mother grows and seels her farm products, prices have at least doubled on everything she sells. She is located on high ground, no flooding. How can Baht remain the same when up to half the country's industry is shut down for one reason or another, and costs are starting to soar for the more of basic items, FOOD.

Half the countries industry isn't shut down as the parts of Bangkok where industry happen aren't flooded and nor is Chonburi or Rayong province. What Industry outside of those places apart from tourism and rice is there ? Apart from people profitering from others misery in the country where have food prices risen ?

Well we have very little orders currently, mean that most of our customer don't work.

[arthurwait]

and still, the baht remains unchanged.

Food in the market where my g/f lives and her mother grows and seels her farm products, prices have at least doubled on everything she sells. She is located on high ground, no flooding. How can Baht remain the same when up to half the country's industry is shut down for one reason or another, and costs are starting to soar for the more of basic items, FOOD.

Half the countries industry isn't shut down as the parts of Bangkok where industry happen aren't flooded and nor is Chonburi or Rayong province. What Industry outside of those places apart from tourism and rice is there ? Apart from people profitering from others misery in the country where have food prices risen ?

Well we have very little orders currently, mean that most of our customer don't work.

Orders for what and does what you do account for half the countries industry and are the low orders attributal to the floods ?

[arthurwait]

So is this the dilema ?

Call in the army for emergency help who shot your martyrs in the protests who won you the election ?

Leave it until they step in anyway maybe losing power ?

Or just leave it and hope it all goes away. Then offer an Ipod for every child at the next election including those who have lost their homes.

No wonder she was crying, It maybe a lot longer until she sees big bro again.

The latest instalment of Thai politics has been brought to you by the Plastic Bag industry and caring politicians of Thailand.

Edited October 15, 2011 by arthurwait

[BigBikeBKK]

So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

Now why would you think that they would be on the same page??? That's ridiculous: PT is in charge, but the Dem. governor wants his party to gain face so he sits on the fence uncommitted, and (of course) the military want to be in charge again with their puppet PM...

I guess you wouldn't know sarcasm if it slapped you in the face?

Yes, PT is in charge and making an incredible mess of things. Science minister screams "EVACUATE", Justice Minister says "Ignore that moron", and PM goes off to cry. Yeah, PT really inspires confidence in their handling of this crisis... NOT!

I'm glad to know that the authorities in Bangkok are not relying on PT to protect the city.

Thai Military is already doing a lot to evacuate people, distribute aid and fortify and protect flood barriers. They could do more, but PM refuses to declare a state of emergency.

Shocking incompetence and zero accountability.

TiT :jap:

If you are going to quote some one then give them the decency to make the quote as realistic as possible. The Science Minister did not in any way at all say "Evacuate". Not in Thai or in English. He made a very middle of the road statement saying that a certain area might get flooded. It was a vague and when it was mentioned to a group of people who were eagerly waiting for a statement saying evacuate or don't evacuate, it was inferred to mean "evacuate".

You didn't hear about Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi's evacuation order???

Wonder where you get your news...

Seeing as how Minister Plod has already issued a public apology for his monumental cock-up I stand by my original post.

Here's the quote from a Bangkok publication that we're not allowed to "post" on ThaiVisa:

"Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi on Friday apologized to Bangkok people for his premature flood evacuation alert yesterday evening.

"

[TJH]

Given that it's absolutely pissing down in the Sathorn/Silom area (at 1925) and given that all the Thai news channels that I'm looking at at least, seem to be concentrating on what was going on 5+ hours ago, can anyone that is in close proximity to the river at Thaksin/Oriental/ChinaTown give us a clue as to whether the river is looking at breaking point or not? I was there at 1230 today and again at around 4pm and it looked (to me at least), as if it was on the rise.

Perhaps we can have a thread that is solely for updates around the region that concentrates on useful info on the flooding (levels, traffic conditions, power outages etc), that leave all the political BS out of the picture. Just a thought. Thanks

[BigBikeBKK]

Over the years that I was in Thailand, numerous times when upcountry I heard of rich Bangkok people buying land upcountry that was way above sea level... the city is below sea level with most of the original canals that allowed the water to flow away filled in, it is inevitable that the place will eventually implode and turn to dust - all those skyscrapers are built on poor quality soil that is continually inundated by water and they will fall down one by one. Fantastic energetic city but built on ether, may survive this flood and the next but eventually the whole infrastructure will go bang.

Hi Nostradamus.

You're giving him too much credit. Haven't some of Notradamus' predictions actually come true?

This Greg Chambers fellow is a few cards short of a full deck.

If Bangkok is doomed, then I guess we'd have to say the same about every other big city that sits a few feet above (or below) sea level? Like Manhattan, Miami, Singapore, Osaka, Mumbai, and most of Holland just to name a few???

What you call Nostradamus, I call loony

http://matadornetwork.com/change/wipe-out-worlds-most-vulnerable-coastal-cities/

[h90]

Orders for what and does what you do account for half the countries industry and are the low orders attributal to the floods ?

We sell hydraulic/pneumatic seals, they are always a good indicator for the economy as every kind of industry uses some. Might also that when floods may come the last thing someone want to have is a machine separated for repair.

[Thunder26]

Lest we forget: here's a news item from June 2010, just 15 months ago titled;

Thailand Could Face Its Worst Drought In 20 Years

"The prime minister (Abhisit) has urged the Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives Ministry to come up with plans to tackle the ongoing drought, which is considered the worst in two decades.Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva expressed his concern about the drought situation in Thailand, saying that it could be the worst in 20 years." continued..........

Maidu's comment: drought/flood/drought/flood ....year after year. Only, the extreme fluctuations are getting worse year by year. Why? Because voracious development is pouring cement and asphalt over immense tracts of terrain that used to be fields and farms. There hasn't been exceptionally more rain this year, it's just that there's a lot less ground and trees for soaking up water. Guess which families are at the top of the heap re; investing in sprawling new real estate compounds? Yup, it's the Shinawatres and other Chinese/Thai families. Up where I live, it's the Sinthanee family (also from China), which build 2 to 3 gargantuan cookie cutter house estates per year.

Just to rectify. This year has been a lot of rain almost all over Thailand. It started with the South, with major amount of rainfall and devastating floods in March. Then, an unusually wet monsoon with high rainfall in many parts of Thailand, especially in the North and North-East. So far Nongkai got more than 2000 mm of rain this year. Also many northern and central parts got more than 2000 mm, Bangkok as well. It doesn't happen every year. This year is by far the wettest in the last decades. A link for the amount of rainfall so far in Thailand:

http://tmd.go.th/en/climate.php

[scotbeve]

As usual, the useless Nation article doesn't give any explanation of HOW declaring a state of emergency would help improve the flood protection efforts for BKK...

What exactly would such a declaration allow the Army to do that they can't already do now? They pretty much do what they want, when they want, all the time already....

Funny though.... someone else asked this question here the other day and I never saw any answer... Where are the BIB through all this???

They do seem to have been pretty conspicuously quiet and absent... Busy rushing to relocate all the casinos to upper floors???

Tall John,

Ya' kinda answered your own question with the use of the adjective USELESS before Nation (news article)!!!

[starguard69]

Over the years that I was in Thailand, numerous times when upcountry I heard of rich Bangkok people buying land upcountry that was way above sea level... the city is below sea level with most of the original canals that allowed the water to flow away filled in, it is inevitable that the place will eventually implode and turn to dust - all those skyscrapers are built on poor quality soil that is continually inundated by water and they will fall down one by one. Fantastic energetic city but built on ether, may survive this flood and the next but eventually the whole infrastructure will go bang.

Hi Nostradamus.

You're giving him too much credit. Haven't some of Notradamus' predictions actually come true?

This Greg Chambers fellow is a few cards short of a full deck.

If Bangkok is doomed, then I guess we'd have to say the same about every other big city that sits a few feet above (or below) sea level? Like Manhattan, Miami, Singapore, Osaka, Mumbai, and most of Holland just to name a few???

What you call Nostradamus, I call loony

http://matadornetwor...coastal-cities/

The BIG difference is those cities, their state and/or provincial governments, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and their municipal governments already have contingency plans in place. At least in the United States the National Guard serves at the leisure of the Governor ( unless federalized by the President). Any state of emergency declared would include the National Guard in whatever capacity.

[mightyharriss]

Given that it's absolutely pissing down in the Sathorn/Silom area (at 1925) and given that all the Thai news channels that I'm looking at at least, seem to be concentrating on what was going on 5+ hours ago, can anyone that is in close proximity to the river at Thaksin/Oriental/ChinaTown give us a clue as to whether the river is looking at breaking point or not? I was there at 1230 today and again at around 4pm and it looked (to me at least), as if it was on the rise.

Perhaps we can have a thread that is solely for updates around the region that concentrates on useful info on the flooding (levels, traffic conditions, power outages etc), that leave all the political BS out of the picture. Just a thought. Thanks

Surasak/silom junction about a foot of water, got hit hard by that.. lost the first half of the big match, well fracked off

[ginjag]

and still, the baht remains unchanged.

Food in the market where my g/f lives and her mother grows and seels her farm products, prices have at least doubled on everything she sells. She is located on high ground, no flooding. How can Baht remain the same when up to half the country's industry is shut down for one reason or another, and costs are starting to soar for the more of basic items, FOOD.

Half the countries industry isn't shut down as the parts of Bangkok where industry happen aren't flooded and nor is Chonburi or Rayong province. What Industry outside of those places apart from tourism and rice is there ? Apart from people profitering from others misery in the country where have food prices risen ?

Ask Honda, they play a small part don't they,??? near all of their stock-CARS are under water, and Nissan--and I do believe a host more could be affected don't you ??? All this importance staged on our lovely clean capitol, ( I do apologise for the hard hit and poor-really I do feel for them) But after all this it could well be a good start to clean this <deleted> hole up, and other places.

I'm only sorry millions are to lose all they have, due to a succession of greedy carnivores in government. These leeches have a lot to answer for.

[h90]

and still, the baht remains unchanged.

Food in the market where my g/f lives and her mother grows and seels her farm products, prices have at least doubled on everything she sells. She is located on high ground, no flooding. How can Baht remain the same when up to half the country's industry is shut down for one reason or another, and costs are starting to soar for the more of basic items, FOOD.

Half the countries industry isn't shut down as the parts of Bangkok where industry happen aren't flooded and nor is Chonburi or Rayong province. What Industry outside of those places apart from tourism and rice is there ? Apart from people profitering from others misery in the country where have food prices risen ?

Ask Honda, they play a small part don't they,??? near all of their stock-CARS are under water, and Nissan--and I do believe a host more could be affected don't you ??? All this importance staged on our lovely clean capitol, ( I do apologise for the hard hit and poor-really I do feel for them) But after all this it could well be a good start to clean this <deleted> hole up, and other places.

I'm only sorry millions are to lose all they have, due to a succession of greedy carnivores in government. These leeches have a lot to answer for.

Hitachi and Western Digital: I think they make like half the worlds Harddisks....

[TJH]

Given that it's absolutely pissing down in the Sathorn/Silom area (at 1925) and given that all the Thai news channels that I'm looking at at least, seem to be concentrating on what was going on 5+ hours ago, can anyone that is in close proximity to the river at Thaksin/Oriental/ChinaTown give us a clue as to whether the river is looking at breaking point or not? I was there at 1230 today and again at around 4pm and it looked (to me at least), as if it was on the rise.

Perhaps we can have a thread that is solely for updates around the region that concentrates on useful info on the flooding (levels, traffic conditions, power outages etc), that leave all the political BS out of the picture. Just a thought. Thanks

Surasak/silom junction about a foot of water, got hit hard by that.. lost the first half of the big match, well fracked off

Thanks for the update MH. Hope all is well with you and yours. I wonder if the water is from the massive rainstorm we just had or from the river??

[Scott]

For those who want the most up-to-the-minute reports, please check with Thailand News updates. This changes each day, for today it's here:

[waza]

My girlfriend is in yannawa, she says around 200 meters from my area is flooding 1 feet, I was out to get some dinner but then raining very hard rain and still some area are flooding.

Keep your powder dry guys

[TJH]

Thanks for the update waza

My girlfriend is in yannawa, she says around 200 meters from my area is flooding 1 feet, I was out to get some dinner but then raining very hard rain and still some area are flooding.

Keep your powder dry guys