Thai Govt Faces Growing Pressure: Flood

[Skywalker69]

They're all doing their best in a tough situation.

Even so, in Thailand: "impressions are more important than reality" ......that's what got PT elected, and that's what will keep them popular.

Unluckily for the peoples affected by the floods, (which this government were warned about long ago) Their "best" is nowhere near good enough..! Placing your friends into important positions in the government is a recipe for disaster. Not one of Yinlucks ministers was the right man for their job... Its called cronyism... A Comedy of errors..!

Post of the day!!! Thanks.

[Arkady]

"Chalit said that when the run-off water reached Bangkok this weekend, the water level in the Chao Phraya River was ex4%pected to reach between 2.3 and 2.4 metres. "The embankment is as high as 2.5 metres," he added, 'so Bangkok should be safe.'"

So he has a margin of error of only 4%, if everything goes well and no sandbag dykes collapse or water sluices burst. Great.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Arkady

[Jerrytheyoung]

The output of this crisis is going to be a deeper social division.

unfortunately, rural people cannot expect solidarity from the rich Bankokians. As soon as the flooding is over, everybody will forget the rural population, the dykes to be built in order to avoid that next year, we will be living the same scenario....because as soon as things will be back to normal there will be some other investment priorities.... Sad....

[AllenSeese]

This problem should have been thought of along time ago. It doesn't take a genius to know that the floods from the north were going to come down to here. But that is typical Thailand, always fixing the problem when it is a crisis rather than foreshadowing events, and taking precautionary measures before hand.

I have two questions if someone can help me it would be great:

2. Does anyone know where I can volunteer to help? I can do anything.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Crossy
Reference to HM removed.

[Tanaka]

Just curious.... speaking strictly in terms of facts.... have the government's recent efforts to do things actually succeeded in protecting anywhere from flooding as yet?

The news this morning seemed a long litany of places where the government's and Army's attempted emergency measures had tried and failed to keep the water out of various places, including the various major industrial estates in Ayutthaya. Is there any success story anywhere?

Fortunately in BKK's case, it has pre-existing permanent flood walls that hopefully will do the job for the main part of the city. So I'm not talking about situations where there were pre-existing flood control structures in place that are doing or did the job they were designed to do.

But when the government officials repeatedly say.... we're making all out efforts to save such and such a place... And then that fails... And then they move on to the next place... And that fails... It's not exactly confidence inspiring.

Similarly, to see the Army saying they're now working to dredge canals along the eastern part of BKK to speed the flow of water to the see, and should be finished in 5 days..... It makes one wonder.... why no one had thought to undertake such measures BEFORE so they could have helped during the critical periods.... not AFTER they've already passed.

That would have required some planning. Which is not regarded necessary in Thailand.

(quote Allenseese)

This problem should have been thought of along time ago. It doesn't take a genius to know that the floods from the north were going to come down to here. But that is typical Thailand, always fixing the problem when it is a crisis rather than foreshadowing events, and taking precautionary measures before hand.

I have two questions if someone can help me it would be great:

2. Does anyone know where I can volunteer to help? I can do anything.

This post has been edited by Crossy: 21 minutes ago

Reason for edit: Reference to HM removed.

(unquote)

Do you have a workpermit?

Edited October 15, 2011 by Tanaka

[Credo]

Fire and water, they make good servants, but poor masters.

[serenitynow]

Just curious.... speaking strictly in terms of facts.... have the government's recent efforts to do things actually succeeded in protecting anywhere from flooding as yet?

The news this morning seemed a long litany of places where the government's and Army's attempted emergency measures had tried and failed to keep the water out of various places, including the various major industrial estates in Ayutthaya. Is there any success story anywhere?

Fortunately in BKK's case, it has pre-existing permanent flood walls that hopefully will do the job for the main part of the city. So I'm not talking about situations where there were pre-existing flood control structures in place that are doing or did the job they were designed to do.

But when the government officials repeatedly say.... we're making all out efforts to save such and such a place... And then that fails... And then they move on to the next place... And that fails... It's not exactly confidence inspiring.

Similarly, to see the Army saying they're now working to dredge canals along the eastern part of BKK to speed the flow of water to the see, and should be finished in 5 days..... It makes one wonder.... why no one had thought to undertake such measures BEFORE so they could have helped during the critical periods.... not AFTER they've already passed.

That would have required some planning. Which is not regarded necessary in Thailand.

Well there were Japan visas and soccer matches to arrange. Court cases to be overturned, etc. I'm sure all the affected understand and realize that everyone is "doing their best".

[siampolee]

allenseese

Does anyone know where I can volunteer to help? I can do anything.

Fine sentiment however there will be an insistence that you have a work permit as was the case for volunteers in the tsunami debacle.

[ThaiKiwi]

Is there by any chance Southern Thailand will be expecting a flood this very coming 1-2 months? I got mixed answers from the local people. No one is 100% certain. Anyone care to shed some light on it ?

From experience with floods in the south over the last 25 years, the answer from me would be that it is quite likely that the south will get some flooding. It could be on a very small scale or it could be serious. I don't believe that there is anyone who can actually tell for sure but of course, there are some that will say they know one way or the other.

[OzMick]

They're all doing their best in a tough situation.

Even so, in Thailand: "impressions are more important than reality" ......that's what got PT elected, and that's what will keep them popular.

Unluckily for the peoples affected by the floods, (which this government were warned about long ago) Their "best" is nowhere near good enough..! Placing your friends into important positions in the government is a recipe for disaster. Not one of Yinlucks ministers was the right man for their job... Its called cronyism... A Comedy of errors..!

The responsibility of preventing Bankok flooding would actually lay in the hands of local Government authorities i.e. The Governor or Mayor and not Central Government.

As the Major of Bangkok is still a Democrat it could be argued that it is in fact the Democrats responsibility and not PTP.

This is also probably the reason Abhisit teamed up with Yingluck and why resident Abhisit cheerleaders have NOW stopped criticising and blaming PTP for Bangkok flooding.

Just in case you didn't realise yet.

It's probably because of the current situation, but your post conjured an image of a drowning man clutching at straws.

[KKvampire]

allenseese

Does anyone know where I can volunteer to help? I can do anything.

Fine sentiment however there will be an insistence that you have a work permit as was the case for volunteers in the tsunami debacle.

If thats the case, someone on a tourist not being to help as an "unpaid volunteer" because of no work permit then Thailand is in a sorry state, Well it is anyway

[RickBradford]

Rick Bradford # 28

And it is much easier and cheaper to pump out some rai of rice paddy than to clean up the MRT after flood waters get in there.

Why don't you go and spout your sanctimonious pompous arrogant self serving rhetoric in front of some poor rice farmers and others who have lost their all, whose houses are submerged and their contents and their lives ruined by flood water, their farm machinery ruined. Small business concerns wiped out and see what you may well get in return

Those are the people who are at the front line on the flooding battle lines.

I have seen houses submerged people living in their cars and trucks, makeshift shelters by the roadside having lost all they ever had.

I am sure you would find that your theory, would if you were lucky, would only land you in the local I.C.U. or more likely a body bag if the truth be known.

Calm down a bit -- no need to get your undies in such a bunch. Breathe into a paper bag for a minute or two, or something.

I have never said that I agree with such a policy; merely that it is the hard commercial reality.

And don't think you are the only person round here who has seen people in properties that have been submerged and who have lost their livelihoods.

And in this part of Bangkok, at an intersection of two klongs, people are busy preparing sandbags for what may happen in the next few days. And these people are very far from the 'super-elite' who you seem to think populate Bangkok.

[taff33]

It's a pitty that abhisit party isn't in goverment now,by the time they made up thier minds to do some thing about the floods it would be all over,for him to act would take so much time,so s l o o o w.

[OzMick]

It's a pitty that abhisit party isn't in goverment now,by the time they made up thier minds to do some thing about the floods it would be all over,for him to act would take so much time,so s l o o o w.

We have looked at the theory that it was a democrat conspiracy to hold the elections early - but to say that they would be slower than this lot is a bit silly. I've seen glaciers that could overtake Yingluk, unless it's taking care of family of course.

[phiphidon]

It's a pitty that abhisit party isn't in goverment now,by the time they made up thier minds to do some thing about the floods it would be all over,for him to act would take so much time,so s l o o o w.

We have looked at the theory that it was a democrat conspiracy to hold the elections early - but to say that they would be slower than this lot is a bit silly. I've seen glaciers that could overtake Yingluk, unless it's taking care of family of course.

Well he did have 2 and a half odd years and 1.43 Trillion Baht Stimulus Package to play with, ostensibly for the long term development of the Thai economy. It covered 7 major areas, the first of which was to bring about food and energy security........

Historic Investment under the "Thailand: Investing from Strength to Strength 2012" Project:

"It will increase irrigation areas from 9.8 million acres to about 12 million acres and reduce the number of flood sufferers from 400,000 to 40,000 on average".

http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside

I wonder what happened to that part of the stimulus package then, doesn't seem to have happened - perhaps they spent most of it on their "dust free roads" nice little earner project?

[noahvail]

It's a pitty that abhisit party isn't in goverment now,by the time they made up thier minds to do some thing about the floods it would be all over,for him to act would take so much time,so s l o o o w.

We have looked at the theory that it was a democrat conspiracy to hold the elections early - but to say that they would be slower than this lot is a bit silly. I've seen glaciers that could overtake Yingluk, unless it's taking care of family of course.

Well he did have 2 and a half odd years and 1.43 Trillion Baht Stimulus Package to play with, ostensibly for the long term development of the Thai economy. It covered 7 major areas, the first of which was to bring about food and energy security........

Historic Investment under the "Thailand: Investing from Strength to Strength 2012" Project:

"It will increase irrigation areas from 9.8 million acres to about 12 million acres and reduce the number of flood sufferers from 400,000 to 40,000 on average".

http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside

I wonder what happened to that part of the stimulus package then, doesn't seem to have happened - perhaps they spent most of it on their "dust free roads" nice little earner project?

I'm sure you're aware that 24.5 billion baht was budgeted for that project - out of 1,430 billion.

And I'm sure you're aware that the stimulus package worked - in a world economy in decline, Thailand's GDP rose dramatically and the baht increased in value.

It was a success.

Given that it's going to take three years to build one canal at a cost of 10 billion baht, as seen on TVF today, it will take at least 10 years to improve the infrastructure.

But you already knew that.

The question is not who is to blame for the rain, but how the rain and subsequent flooding was handled by the current administration. Watching Thai TV, it's pretty obvious to any reasonable person that the current administration has failed. Badly.

[OzMick]

It's a pitty that abhisit party isn't in goverment now,by the time they made up thier minds to do some thing about the floods it would be all over,for him to act would take so much time,so s l o o o w.

We have looked at the theory that it was a democrat conspiracy to hold the elections early - but to say that they would be slower than this lot is a bit silly. I've seen glaciers that could overtake Yingluk, unless it's taking care of family of course.

Well he did have 2 and a half odd years and 1.43 Trillion Baht Stimulus Package to play with, ostensibly for the long term development of the Thai economy. It covered 7 major areas, the first of which was to bring about food and energy security........

Historic Investment under the "Thailand: Investing from Strength to Strength 2012" Project:

"It will increase irrigation areas from 9.8 million acres to about 12 million acres and reduce the number of flood sufferers from 400,000 to 40,000 on average".

http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside

I wonder what happened to that part of the stimulus package then, doesn't seem to have happened - perhaps they spent most of it on their "dust free roads" nice little earner project?

Don't know what you're complaining about - the roads are dust free and the amount of land under irrigation is well over projection. Not quite sure how many years it will take to get the average right.

You are also a year or so over the time they had to implement the scheme - so I suppose it's still operating.

[anterian]

As has been remarked elsewhere it is pathetic seeing the Abhisit/Dem supporters laughing at the PT predicament, not of course that they could do any better. The present chaos is the result of years of mismanagement, not just by Yingluck but by all Thais. The same Thais that throw their rubbish in the waterways, break down embankments so they can sit and fish, allow the canals to fill with water plants.

[noahvail]

As has been remarked elsewhere it is pathetic seeing the Abhisit/Dem supporters laughing at the PT predicament, not of course that they could do any better. The present chaos is the result of years of mismanagement, not just by Yingluck but by all Thais. The same Thais that throw their rubbish in the waterways, break down embankments so they can sit and fish, allow the canals to fill with water plants.

Laughing at the PT predicament? Hardly. I haven't seen one poster "laughing" at the sorrowful scenes of all those people who have been displaced, lost everything, even lost their lives. It has been explained that since July, the government has taken no action to alleviate the flood situation. Remember, there are places that have been under water for two months. Water should have been released on a controlled basis for some time now. Instead, we now have boats trying to push water down the river whilst tied to docks in Bangkok. It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many.

[MaxYakov]

allenseese

Does anyone know where I can volunteer to help? I can do anything.

Fine sentiment however there will be an insistence that you have a work permit as was the case for volunteers in the tsunami debacle.

If thats the case, someone on a tourist not being to help as an "unpaid volunteer" because of no work permit then Thailand is in a sorry state, Well it is anyway

It's not as straightforward as that according to a post-tsunami TV Forum topic on this subject. Recent discussion is HERE containing a link to the post-tsunami topic. I believe extortion by an official trying to squeeze some farang tea-money is one of the risks.

Risk from legitimate, reasonable authorities I should think would be minimal now and inversely proportional to local water-depth.

Edited October 15, 2011 by MaxYakov

[ETatBKK]

the big flood is not anything good, but it really explicitly visualises the weak sides ( or even the problems ) of the government, from leadership, to management, to operation . . .

it is not all about the current government, it is the cultural issues. sad though, Thai people just get used to it - mai ben rai :-(

[MaxYakov]

I would have thought the PM would have been emphasizing that the efforts to keep Bangkok water free is because Bangkok is the most densely populated part of the country and serious flooding may have results in hundreds of thousands, or millions of new flood victims.

However it seems money and the economy was the main reason ....

And how are they going to feed and shelter any of the flood victims without 'money and the economy'?

[anterian]

As has been remarked elsewhere it is pathetic seeing the Abhisit/Dem supporters laughing at the PT predicament, not of course that they could do any better. The present chaos is the result of years of mismanagement, not just by Yingluck but by all Thais. The same Thais that throw their rubbish in the waterways, break down embankments so they can sit and fish, allow the canals to fill with water plants.

Laughing at the PT predicament? Hardly. I haven't seen one poster "laughing" at the sorrowful scenes of all those people who have been displaced, lost everything, even lost their lives. It has been explained that since July, the government has taken no action to alleviate the flood situation. Remember, there are places that have been under water for two months. Water should have been released on a controlled basis for some time now. Instead, we now have boats trying to push water down the river whilst tied to docks in Bangkok. It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many.

Perhaps laughing up their sleeves is the better expression to use. To quote yourself, "It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many." Indeed I agree 100% but don't just point your vindictive finger at Yingluck, all previous governments, including Abhisit's share the blame. You and others just find it politically useful to blame it all on her.

[noahvail]

As has been remarked elsewhere it is pathetic seeing the Abhisit/Dem supporters laughing at the PT predicament, not of course that they could do any better. The present chaos is the result of years of mismanagement, not just by Yingluck but by all Thais. The same Thais that throw their rubbish in the waterways, break down embankments so they can sit and fish, allow the canals to fill with water plants.

Laughing at the PT predicament? Hardly. I haven't seen one poster "laughing" at the sorrowful scenes of all those people who have been displaced, lost everything, even lost their lives. It has been explained that since July, the government has taken no action to alleviate the flood situation. Remember, there are places that have been under water for two months. Water should have been released on a controlled basis for some time now. Instead, we now have boats trying to push water down the river whilst tied to docks in Bangkok. It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many.

Perhaps laughing up their sleeves is the better expression to use. To quote yourself, "It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many." Indeed I agree 100% but don't just point your vindictive finger at Yingluck, all previous governments, including Abhisit's share the blame. You and others just find it politically useful to blame it all on her.

I heartily agree that all prior governments must share the blame - going back more than 20 years - for not providing proper infrastructure to mitigate flood damage throughout the country.

But I don't find it "politically useful" as you say, to blame it all on her. Not politically useful at all, as I have no influence on politics in this country. However, I can look at what has and has not been done, and rightfully criticize the lack of action of the current government to mitigate the floods as much as possible, given the existing infrastructure; and criticize their lack of organization and action to lessen the burden of those whose lives who have been so dreadfully disrupted by the floods.

[anterian]

As has been remarked elsewhere it is pathetic seeing the Abhisit/Dem supporters laughing at the PT predicament, not of course that they could do any better. The present chaos is the result of years of mismanagement, not just by Yingluck but by all Thais. The same Thais that throw their rubbish in the waterways, break down embankments so they can sit and fish, allow the canals to fill with water plants.

Laughing at the PT predicament? Hardly. I haven't seen one poster "laughing" at the sorrowful scenes of all those people who have been displaced, lost everything, even lost their lives. It has been explained that since July, the government has taken no action to alleviate the flood situation. Remember, there are places that have been under water for two months. Water should have been released on a controlled basis for some time now. Instead, we now have boats trying to push water down the river whilst tied to docks in Bangkok. It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many.

Perhaps laughing up their sleeves is the better expression to use. To quote yourself, "It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many." Indeed I agree 100% but don't just point your vindictive finger at Yingluck, all previous governments, including Abhisit's share the blame. You and others just find it politically useful to blame it all on her.

I heartily agree that all prior governments must share the blame - going back more than 20 years - for not providing proper infrastructure to mitigate flood damage throughout the country.

But I don't find it "politically useful" as you say, to blame it all on her. Not politically useful at all, as I have no influence on politics in this country. However, I can look at what has and has not been done, and rightfully criticize the lack of action of the current government to mitigate the floods as much as possible, given the existing infrastructure; and criticize their lack of organization and action to lessen the burden of those whose lives who have been so dreadfully disrupted by the floods.

"I heartily agree that all prior governments must share the blame ", then we are in agreement. I just feel it is wrong to dump all the blame on her shoulders. Even if she knew what to do, which I doubt, she could not achieve it in a few months. Abhisit has less excuse, he had longer to do something in and was certainly forewarned, after all this is a regular event.

[maidu]

Am I glad I live in Pattaya where there is no sign of flooding yet. At least not in my part of town...

For once, Pattaya gets mentioned without the words sex or crime or decadence - within the same sentence. Way to go!

If Bangkok is flooded, then everyone in the country loses -- this is where Thailand meets the rest of the world, where export deals for produce are hammered out, where the service industries all operate, where foreign companies run their regional operations, all of which benefit everyone indirectly. It's also a major tourist hub, and the image of a flooded Bangkok will do nothing for the tourist industry as a whole, nor would the inundation of the airport. And it is much easier and cheaper to pump out some rai of rice paddy than to clean up the MRT after flood waters get in there. It is absurd to suggest that Bangkok is being saved simply for the benefit of its residents.

That's actually one of the problems here. Bangkok has become the big sucking sound for Thailand. Similar to Mexico City for Mexico, and Seoul for Korea, .....ad nauseum. It's had its heyday. Now it's clear to all but the most myopic cheerleader, that Bkk is on its way out. Ok, it will survive this flood, but the writing is on the wall: Bangkok is oversized, over-rated, sinking, flood prone, and barely functional at the best of times. It's also suffered two major street riots in the past 3 years. I came from a small town in California. On any given week, that little town had more cultural events, more big name music performers, more creative professional residents (writers, musicians, artists, etc) than any week in Bangkok. Ring out the old, ring in the new.

[RickBradford]

It's had its heyday....... Bangkok is oversized, over-rated, sinking, flood prone, and barely functional at the best of times

Nicely put, but there are of course enormous problems in doing anything about that.

I guess they have made a gesture in that direction by moving a lot of the Government offices out to Nonthaburi, but they really need to create serious public transport options up there so that the center of gravity of the city moves north, and Sukhumvit or Silom become the 'old town'.

I don't think a greenfield site in the sticks (such as the Burmese have built) is a good answer -- you'd have to build yet another corruption-riddled airport for a start.

[qualtrough]

Worst flooding in something like 35 years, government in power a little over 2 months, Bangkok still dry, and it's all the new government's fault and they are incompetent. Do I have that right?

[philw]

Worst flooding in something like 35 years, government in power a little over 2 months, Bangkok still dry, and it's all the new government's fault and they are incompetent. Do I have that right?

Yes you do.

Thank you for bringing some sense to the table.

[OzMick]

Perhaps laughing up their sleeves is the better expression to use. To quote yourself, "It is truly sad to see what hasn't been done, that should have been done, and was predicted by many." Indeed I agree 100% but don't just point your vindictive finger at Yingluck, all previous governments, including Abhisit's share the blame. You and others just find it politically useful to blame it all on her.

I heartily agree that all prior governments must share the blame - going back more than 20 years - for not providing proper infrastructure to mitigate flood damage throughout the country.

But I don't find it "politically useful" as you say, to blame it all on her. Not politically useful at all, as I have no influence on politics in this country. However, I can look at what has and has not been done, and rightfully criticize the lack of action of the current government to mitigate the floods as much as possible, given the existing infrastructure; and criticize their lack of organization and action to lessen the burden of those whose lives who have been so dreadfully disrupted by the floods.

"I heartily agree that all prior governments must share the blame ", then we are in agreement. I just feel it is wrong to dump all the blame on her shoulders. Even if she knew what to do, which I doubt, she could not achieve it in a few months. Abhisit has less excuse, he had longer to do something in and was certainly forewarned, after all this is a regular event.

Like the scorpion, you just couldn't resist your nature. Abhisit had allocated funds and the work is in process. OTOH if you want to distribute blame back over the last decade proportional to who had the most time in power.............

Edited October 15, 2011 by OzMick