Complacent Bangkokians Will Have To Suffer In Turn

[rixalex]

Best post I've ever read on TV.

Of course it is.

Before too long, all the forum's red sympathisers will be along with their own personal endorsement of the, "let's spread the blame" message.

[hands22]

No country, however rich or prepare, can win against the force of nature.

Even in Singapore, where it's supposedly super-efficient with excellent infrastructure... flash floods hit parts of the island this afternoon after a heavy torrential downpour.

I just hope Thailand can recover from this tragedy quickly!

[aussiebebe]

I thought quite highly of the Thai Democratic Party when they were in power, but I have enormous sympathy for the new government - in power for two months and already bearing the brunt of the populations' collective anger for a problem caused by decades of complacency from previous governments and meddling from the army (let's refrain from the 'M' word, shall we?). Think about it; just in the last 40 years there have been 4 coups ('71, '76, '91 and '96) and 3 attempts ('77, '81 and '85) so no chance for any one government to even consider long-term water management.

[h90]

I thought quite highly of the Thai Democratic Party when they were in power, but I have enormous sympathy for the new government - in power for two months and already bearing the brunt of the populations' collective anger for a problem caused by decades of complacency from previous governments and meddling from the army (let's refrain from the 'M' word, shall we?). Think about it; just in the last 40 years there have been 4 coups ('71, '76, '91 and '96) and 3 attempts ('77, '81 and '85) so no chance for any one government to even consider long-term water management.

You forgot that there was a perfect water management plan which was canceled by Banharn....

[Steely Dan]

I thought quite highly of the Thai Democratic Party when they were in power, but I have enormous sympathy for the new government - in power for two months and already bearing the brunt of the populations' collective anger for a problem caused by decades of complacency from previous governments and meddling from the army (let's refrain from the 'M' word, shall we?). Think about it; just in the last 40 years there have been 4 coups ('71, '76, '91 and '96) and 3 attempts ('77, '81 and '85) so no chance for any one government to even consider long-term water management.

I have very little time for the current government, but you are right. I think the issue is even broader than management of dams, rivers and canals and goes as far as sustainable farming methods and slash and burn deforestation by greedy short sighed people.

[Bkkorupcountry]

Best post I've ever read on TV.

Of course it is.

Before too long, all the forum's red sympathisers will be along with their own personal endorsement of the, "let's spread the blame" message.

Why do you feel the need to post totally useless and irrelevant replies. You hate the current government, everyone knows that. You think they are incompetent, corrupt etc etc etc etc etc - fine. Start a thread where you and your fellow supporters can get your rocks off posting insults and criticisms that the rest of us (yes, there are other posters on this forum) are not interested to read about, not because you think we are red apologists of sympathisers but because it is sooooooo tiring reading the same kindergarten stuff over and over again.

In fact, would you do me a great favour and not respond to any of my posts, beginning with this one? Thank you in advance.

[rishi]

I thought quite highly of the Thai Democratic Party when they were in power, but I have enormous sympathy for the new government - in power for two months and already bearing the brunt of the populations' collective anger for a problem caused by decades of complacency from previous governments and meddling from the army (let's refrain from the 'M' word, shall we?). Think about it; just in the last 40 years there have been 4 coups ('71, '76, '91 and '96) and 3 attempts ('77, '81 and '85) so no chance for any one government to even consider long-term water management.

You forgot that there was a perfect water management plan which was canceled by Banharn....

That perfect water management plan - was that the one with building a 5.2 meter floodwall all around Bangkok, leaving it up to the rest of Thailand solving their own problems?

[gl555]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Just send a private message to the mods. Why post your self righteousness in public for all to see? So dramatic!

[Crushdepth]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Stop putting words in other people's mouth. Shouting "racist" at posts you disagree with does not make it so. Criticising the government is not the same as 'belittling the Thai people'. As I have pointed out on several occasions now, you have contributed your own fair share of venom. And a good "guest" does not turn a blind eye to corruption and nepotism.

[smedly]

this flood situation has gone on long enough, it's time to start an end to it, the vast areas and people North of BK are currently suffering because they refuse to let the water drain off to the sea, it has to happen - some BK residents are going to get their feet wet sooner or later, lets get on with it and end this thing...............................

[philw]

Guys, just a short note on volunteering and filling sandbags etc. Unless you have a work permit permitting this activity and with that specific location included, you cannot do it. PERIOD.

Just like the guy in Pattaya who raised half a million baht for charity (kids with HIV) and then had to get himself out of trouble the usual way when arrested.

This is total and utter nonsense and really should not be propagated.

Do you honestly think you are in danger of arrest whilst knee deep in water helping people???

Edited October 21, 2011 by philw

[philw]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Just send a private message to the mods. Why post your self righteousness in public for all to see? So dramatic!

Sadly Bkkorupcountry is dead right.

Have a look around a few other forums and websites and you will see a very different attitude.

TV was once a valuable source of information but, seems now to be playground slanging match with very little merit.

On almost any topic.

Posting in public is the only way to draw shame on some of the inanities here.

Would you prefer even greater censorship from the powers that be ???

[Moonrakers]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Huzzah for red democracy

[rogerdee123]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Huzzah for red democracy

Yes indeed ... TV needs censorship. Only good news and praise for whatever Govt is in charge.

[Crushdepth]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Huzzah for red democracy

This is a democracy. If want to disagree with government policy you need to apply for a permit.

[metisdead]

About comments on moderation, well, it's hard to be everywhere to moderate everything, we do have lives to live as well, there is the report button to report abusive posts. On another note, you can send an email to support-at-thaivisa.com to discuss the "lack" of moderation. As for my lack of moderation duties this evening, well, I was informed at 17:30 that the sluice gates were opening at 04:00 tomorrow morning, (in the Klongsamwa/Minburi area),so I've been busy battening down the hatches so to speak.

As per forum rule:

21) Not to discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy

Thanks

[noahvail]

Guys, just a short note on volunteering and filling sandbags etc. Unless you have a work permit permitting this activity and with that specific location included, you cannot do it. PERIOD.

Just like the guy in Pattaya who raised half a million baht for charity (kids with HIV) and then had to get himself out of trouble the usual way when arrested.

This is total and utter nonsense and really should not be propagated.

Do you honestly think you are in danger of arrest whilst knee deep in water helping people???

Evidently you missed the post on another thread where Immigration announced that you do not need a permit to build sand bags at Don Muang airport. Other than there, you need a work permit.

And you must have missed George's post on the subject - in effect, volunteer at your own risk.

You can still help by donating money, food, or goods to the Thai Red Cross, and perhaps even at shelters that have been established.

[BigBikeBKK]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

I suggest you visit some Thai language forums - you'll see that it's not only foreigners and the UN calling out the current administration for their deplorable mishandling of this crisis.

In poll after poll the Thai people have voiced their disgust at the way the FROC has

Headlines such as

"Froc skirting the truth",

"Soldiers get top marks over floods",

"Relief centre gets resounding thumbs-down",

"Govt slammed for lack of boats, relief",

"Poll: Flood centre fails in PR"

etc paint a clear picture of the Thai people's disgust in the current administration's poor performance and mismanagement that has, for many Thais and expats alike, turned a crisis into a disaster.

[rogerdee123]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

Huzzah for red democracy

This is a democracy. If want to disagree with government policy you need to apply for a permit.

do we need work permits to post on Thai Visa?

[TAWP]

Best post I've ever read on TV.

Of course it is.

Before too long, all the forum's red sympathisers will be along with their own personal endorsement of the, "let's spread the blame" message.

I am not saying that it is a case of sockpuppets, but it is fun how a very small selection of users always have to quote another users long post and merely add 'Good post' etc - and looking over their history this either is or is close to the majority of their input in this subforum.

Edited October 21, 2011 by TAWP

[philw]

Best post I've ever read on TV.

Of course it is.

Before too long, all the forum's red sympathisers will be along with their own personal endorsement of the, "let's spread the blame" message.

I am not saying that it is a case of sockpuppets, but it is fun how a very small selection of users always have to quote another users long post and merely add 'Good post' etc - and looking over their history this either is or is close to the majority of their input in this subforum.

You are right of course, "penismightier"

need I add anything else ??

[Buchholz]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

I suggest you visit some Thai language forums - you'll see that it's not only foreigners and the UN calling out the current administration for their deplorable mishandling of this crisis.

In poll after poll the Thai people have voiced their disgust at the way the FROC has

Headlines such as

"Froc skirting the truth",

"Soldiers get top marks over floods",

"Relief centre gets resounding thumbs-down",

"Govt slammed for lack of boats, relief",

"Poll: Flood centre fails in PR"

etc paint a clear picture of the Thai people's disgust in the current administration's poor performance and mismanagement that has, for many Thais and expats alike, turned a crisis into a disaster.

Thank you for posting the reality to counter the attempted fantasy spin of:

Anti-government incompetence = Anti-Thai

(coupled with a thinly veiled threat to the Forum)

.

[elgato]

Best post I've ever read on TV.

Of course it is.

Before too long, all the forum's red sympathisers will be along with their own personal endorsement of the, "let's spread the blame" message.

I am not saying that it is a case of sockpuppets, but it is fun how a very small selection of users always have to quote another users long post and merely add 'Good post' etc - and looking over their history this either is or is close to the majority of their input in this subforum.

And your point is?

[scorecard]

To the moderators:

The amount of venom and frankly, inappropriate posts on practically all the threads are getting way too ridiculous. An internet forum is supposed to be a vehicle to exchange opinions and thoughts and to debate but what we have here is just a sh*t slinging contest, from only one side. You must have read enough from other posters (who are neutral and even some saying that they don't like the current government) saying that enough is enough. When will you put a stop to it?

One other thing; even as a foreigner, I am frankly disgusted by the way "guests" in this country insult and belittle the government and the Thai people. The fact that the authorities have not clamped down on this forum is a good example of free speech (regardless of the party in power) but it would not surprise me it they do, when it comes to their attention.

I suggest you visit some Thai language forums - you'll see that it's not only foreigners and the UN calling out the current administration for their deplorable mishandling of this crisis.

In poll after poll the Thai people have voiced their disgust at the way the FROC has

Headlines such as

"Froc skirting the truth",

"Soldiers get top marks over floods",

"Relief centre gets resounding thumbs-down",

"Govt slammed for lack of boats, relief",

"Poll: Flood centre fails in PR"

etc paint a clear picture of the Thai people's disgust in the current administration's poor performance and mismanagement that has, for many Thais and expats alike, turned a crisis into a disaster.

And take a look at this slideshow, it's powerful:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2011/10/14/worst-floods-in-a-half-century-in-thailand/5029/

[siampolee]

Rather a stunning blow to the government that a foreign news source publishes pictures detailing the harsh reality of the current situation .

Rather debunks the robotic statements we keep hearing from assorted government spokespersons currently holding the one brain cell being passed around in their party game of pass the responsibility parcel by the government

Don't let people see what is happening they will think (know) we lie when we say. ''Everything is under control no need to worry."

Pity the Muppet puppet and her inept cronies are not so open as to what the reality of the floods are and the impact on the Thai people and Thailand in general.

Thanks for the link Scorecard.

Edited October 22, 2011 by siampolee

[rixalex]

Best post I've ever read on TV.

Of course it is.

Before too long, all the forum's red sympathisers will be along with their own personal endorsement of the, "let's spread the blame" message.

Why do you feel the need to post totally useless and irrelevant replies. You hate the current government, everyone knows that. You think they are incompetent, corrupt etc etc etc etc etc - fine. Start a thread where you and your fellow supporters can get your rocks off posting insults and criticisms that the rest of us (yes, there are other posters on this forum) are not interested to read about, not because you think we are red apologists of sympathisers but because it is sooooooo tiring reading the same kindergarten stuff over and over again.

In fact, would you do me a great favour and not respond to any of my posts, beginning with this one? Thank you in advance.

This is a free, open and public forum. We all express whatever we wish to, of course within the bounds of the rules and guidelines set out. If you don't agree with what i post, fine, respond in the way that you wish to. Or report me.

Don't however try and dictate who should be writing about what or who should be responding to whom. I post whatever i wish to, and i respond to whomever i wish to, and the only people who have any say in that are the mods, of which you are not one.

Now with that said, the problem here is that whilst the red sympathisers had plenty to say about the failings of the last administration - some comments deserved, others not - now that their own chosen party is at the helm, suddenly any criticism of the government, is twisted into anti Thai sentiment, or kindergarten stuff, or anti-democratic. Criticising the government is none of those things. The only thing it could possibly be is unwarranted. Now if you think that, and if you think that criticising Yingluck for the job she is doing managing this crisis is uncalled for, then tell us why, and tell us why you think she is doing a good job. Because all that is being said is that she is not doing a good job. Not that she could have prevented all the flooding, or that she is solely responsible for it happening in the first place, just that she has mismanaged and failed in leading the country at a time when it needed a strong-minded quick thinking decision maker; all qualities she has yet to display.

And finally, if my responding to your posts really troubles you that much, i suggest you put me on ignore, because no, i'm not going to do you any favours, not at least when they include curtailing free speech.

[asean]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

This doesn't have much to do with the current government. Every government that came before it for the last 25 years is responsible. I am not excusing the PM or PTP, but the decisions were made by people that included previous Democratic , military and previous incarnations of the PTP. Everyone ignored the problem.

There is only one major floodway in the world similar to what Bangkok needs.. This floodway has repeatedly saved a major city and surrounding industrial zones and it is called the Red River Floodway. Construction of the Floodway started in 1962 and finished in 1968. The construction was a major undertaking with 76.5 million cubic metres of earth excavated—more than what was moved for the Suez Canal At the time, the project was the second largest earth-moving project in the world – next only to the construction of the Panama Canal The total cost at the time was $63 Million CAD about $500 million today or 1.5 billion baht. Would any Thai government have been willing or able to build such a project? I don't think so. The Red River floodway was heavily protested and the Conservative Canadian provincial government that built it was ridiculed for decades until the great western floods occurred and then Duff Roblin's "wasteful folly" was celebrated as a miracle.

If there is a problem of flooding in Bangkok, everyone is responsible. .A floodway requires land expropriations. Try and expropriate land in Bangkok and see how far you get. Try and build large dykes and the protests from landowners and tenants will be violent. People are still protesting the runways at Swampy. A floodway must eventually be built. It is a case of avoiding a tough decision and paying for it later.

SO you saying that for the cost of the useless airport link we could have had four Red River Floodways built around Bangkok?

Sorry still learning how to use this forum.

[ivowatson]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

Agreed 100%

[Dag]

1.5 billion for a suitable floodway......imagine if taksin had said...ok I'm going to save Bangkok single handedly with several billion of my 77 billion......who would still be PM now ??....but no, the great visionary, the astute businessman decided to hoard it all and cheat the nation......ya gets what ya deserve.

And all the mud dug up could have been used to build that island he wanted to sell to us foreigners...Taksinsville.

.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Dag

[bigbamboo]

The decision to spare Bangkok for as long as possible was the right decision. Bangkok is the nerve center, the financial center, the city that represents Thailand. Keeping Bangkok functioning as long as possible, kept the country going. It's easy to say should've,, would've, could've, but the key government and key military command centers are in Bangkok.The location selection dates back decades. The military hadn't even considered relocating key command functions until recent days. The government will have a hard time functioning without Bangkok because this is where the key bureaucrats and scientists are located. The major medical centers are in Bangkok. There are literally tens of thousands of critically ill people in hospitals that are transported in from outside of Bangkok, that have nowhere to go. The medical care strategy ahs always used Bangkok as the core region for high risk medical care. I am sorry large portions of Thailand have suffered the brunt of the flooding, but having Bangkok up and working allowed for all of these people to be helped. As Bangkok floods, the ability to assist those in need will contract.

The next question will be whether or not the south will be able to step up and provide the relief needed.

Some well-reasoned sentiments in the above but one can't help thinking that were it the Dems in charge, all this talk of Bangkok needing to be prioritised and saved at the cost of the rural people, wouldn't be coming from your mouth - or the mouths of the red shirts and the PTP - but what would, a rant at how selfish and disgusting it was for the Bangkok "elite" to once again be putting themselves first.

Both of the above comments have their merits. Bangkok is the mother city and the heart of the nation and as such it must have special status as with any other country. It is also true that if had happened under the previous government the 'elite' argument would have been raised.