Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[Buchholz]

So far there is no indication as to who exactly refused USA naval help.

There are 6 pages of assumption here that it was the Prime minister or her team.

Usually, humanitarian aid is delivered at the request of the government of that country, eg.

United States response to the government of Georgia request for humanitarian assistance.

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=39246

The supplies are being delivered to Moscow after an official request from the Russian government.

http://www.usafe.af.mil/photos/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=8740

at the request of the Indonesian government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_091011-M-4689B-053_U.S._service_members_unload_ShelterBoxes_during_a_humanitarian_assistance_and_disaster_relief_operation_in_the_village_of_Hula_Banda,_Indonesia.jpg

Edited October 25, 2011 by Buchholz

[peterdk]

I disagree somewhat.

I read some of his comments as ;

Why is it a disaster just now ( like why it wasn't a disaster 2-3 months ago, as truthfully it was, also why is it a disaster only now, when Bangkok is on the verge of drowning, and not before. )

You're really comparing the floods then to the floods now? Are you serious?

I'm not comparing anything, I am uttering my take on previous posters comments.

Try and understand that please.

[inquisitive]

US help never comes for free and the hidden payback is always much bigger than the actual help.

"Never" and "always" are pretty encompassing terms. They need but a single example to prove the writer is ignorant. With that in mind, are we to believe that you really mean there is not a single incident in all history where the US gave more than it received in hidden paybacks? Or should we simply discount your initial raving?

[transam]

Probably to much hassle issuing them work permits.

[timberboy]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

It's the same old "loss of Face" stupidity. When was the last time a Thai Government

accepted the offer of help from foreign government? If they had called in people from

foreign countries with experience in water management in low lying areas (Netherlands

to name one) many, many years ago, then perhaps this flood may have been less of a

disaster than it is now. The least that could have been done was to make a study of

other countries defenses against flooding and adapted them to suit Thailand.

Perhaps Thaksin (YES I'm afraid his name must be mentioned again and NO I'm not obsessed by him) has ordered the "red shirt" MP's to instruct Yingluck, or whoever is in control of the government in Thailand (other than himself of course) to refuse help from the US as they might see it as an opportunity to invade Thailand at this juncture of seemingly permanent government weakness in everything it does and it's dismal and abject performance (in both responding to the floods and the ever confused state of the government)!!!

What was the US navy to do when Thailand was offered its much needed help and responded with YES and NO??? I'm sure there was a few maybe's, perhaps, I doubt it and not at this point of time mixed in with the 2 definitive replies, from other sources!!!!

Confused and confusing Thailand - why it will never function properly - until the Democrats are restored to power. For the sake of Thailand and it's people this cannot come soon enough :jap:.

ARE you serious? United States invade Thailand? thats just plain crazy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes i agree Mr Abhisit should be back as MP ,or if necessary have a coalition government like Israel. Both party leaders share the PM post and take turns as the senior PM each year. I seems to work for them.

[Insight]

Are the Thai people aware of their governments refusal of help from the USA?

I just told my wife about this, and she say NO...

My missus knows, but we do live in Bangkok.

A good dose of rancid flood water, lack of essential supplies and increased risk of disease should put a stop to our unappreciative whining.

[sunanta]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

It certainly does. A nuclear-powered aircraft carrier task force is capable of providing an astounding amount of assistance from electricity to medical care to food to water to manpower to evacuation helicopters. It runs the whole gamut of help that is unrivaled.

This is absolutely absurd of the government to turn it ALL away.

thai's love and wish to be chinese...lets hear about the aid china offers

[losworld]

I always thought they perhaps refused assistance because then the world will get a close up look at distribution of supplies, etc. and it would make it more difficult to pilfer and resell supplies?

[rjlee1]

Yea, doesn't sound too bright to me turning away the US Navy.

My biggest worry is for disease. I hope I am wrong, but with all the raw sewage being spread around, and the waste water treatment plants being flooded and likely inoperable, I can't help but wonder how long before cholera and other water-born diseases start spreading. Later on, the mosquito population should explode and with it malaria and other diseases the mosquitos carry. You only have to see the news from parts of Africa to get a good idea of what is likely to happen.

Any country would be in need of help when about 1/3 of it is flooded. The Thai Gov't needs to get a grip on reality and accept whatever resources are offered to deal with this.

I can't help but wonder about how international companies are thinking about their investments. If any government can't provide basic infrastructure up to a standard that is expected, then companies are likely to leave. It is a simple matter of risk management.

I agree with prior comments about the flood control work needed; should have been done long ago. If they don't going with such work once this current disaster abates, well... Certainly I will have to think seriously about moving somewhere else.

Glad my family and I are not there now. What a mess.

Richard

[rametindallas]

Given how much the government has used the Thai military, is it any surprise that they refused the US military help?

Explain this comment, I don't get it. The US military is here on training missions every year as well as regular regional military exercieses. Most all the military equipment is US and if the US didn't come here, the Thai military wouldn't know which end of the barrel to point with.

Why would the Thai government avoid using the Thai military and then invite the US military to help?

Surely they don't fear a coup' from the US???

[xavierr]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

[thaimat]

Are you saying that the Prime Minister didn't know the US Navy was there, and offering help? Or that the Prime Minister didn't have a chance to make one phone call to the US Ambassador to ask for the US Navy's help? Or if asked for help by the Prime Minister, the US Navy would decide to not help based on info from any other government source? In other words, the US Navy sails here from Singapore, for the sole purpose of offering massive amount of help, was then asked by Thailand's Prime Minister for help, but become some other government knucklehead says that help isn't needed, the US Navy would not heed the request by the Prime Minister? There is no way the Prime Minster and her team was not involved in this decision to turn down help from the US.

So far there is no indication as to who exactly refused USA naval help.

There are 6 pages of assumption here that it was the Prime minister or her team.

Usually, humanitarian aid is delivered at the request of the government of that country, eg.

United States response to the government of Georgia request for humanitarian assistance.

http://www.navy.mil/...?story_id=39246

The supplies are being delivered to Moscow after an official request from the Russian government.

http://www.usafe.af....?galleryID=8740

at the request of the Indonesian government.

http://en.wikipedia....,_Indonesia.jpg

[Trouble]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Well, I'm an American citizen too. America has ventured into many areas it should not have ventured and yes we have made our mistakes. But when it comes to humanitarian aid we don't have a record of asking for something in return. I think the statement was misguided. Believe me I would be most happy to keep my tax dollar at home, we have problems here. If the Thai government does not want the help, fine with me. It's their problem, let them solve it. Too bad about the poor victims, however. But then they elected the incompetents to office. Just to be clear, I also have friends whose house is filled with one meter of water so I am not unsympathetic to this disaster.

[OzMick]

Two traveling cities pull within speaking distance of your country to offer an avalanche of help: supplies, manpower, aircraft, medical personnel and medical pharmaceuticals, food, emergency equipment and you decide not to speak to them. I guess if they were tied to the train tracks with an advancing train in their path and someone from another country offered to cut the rope, they'd turn it down just to save face. I simply do not have the words to describe my disbelief. Instead of one disaster, the government just keeps creating more, and more, and...Wow!

Not to mention the boost to the economy when shore leave starts. Nothing spends like a sailor who's been at sea for a few months.

[thaikahuna]

I made reference to this availability the other day....now its going away. ABSOLUTELY DUMBER THAN DOGSHIT, especially in view of the fact that Tesco is being forced to close its doors due to the inability to operate supply chains.

[rametindallas]

Hello didn't anyone see what happened in Katrina? Not sure why you think US help is superior...

In any case American assistance is never 'free' they will turn around and ask for in return such as tax wavers on their wheat products or such like..

Did you see what happened in New Orleans during Katrina? A 60 year old levee broke and flooded half a city that is on average, six feet below sea level. The hurricane came in with three DAYS notice. What did you expect them to do. Katrina and this disaster are not comparable and in any case, the US Navy would NOT be directing the operations, just assisting as requested. Don't let you hatred for all things US deprive the Thais suffering this flood.

[zydeco]

BTW, no posts from robblok today. I wonder if he finally lost electricity and had to evacuate.

[rametindallas]

So Cambodia and Vietnam also turned down offers of assistance, did they? Why would the Americans turn tail and head off to Japan without offering help to other flood-hit countries in the region. Could it be that this assistance is not gratis, but has to be paid for? Why not wait a couple more days until they got a definite decision from the Thai government? I don't know but I think there's more to this story than just the American version.

A lot of assumptions, there, Sunshine. You say you think something, so, in your mind, it is true !?!

[OzMick]

Every comment that NanLaew has made in this topic has made him sound like a Troll

He did say his family's farm is underwater in Isaan. He's no doubt bitter and angry at having lost a lot. I would be too. No use arguing with him, he's been hurt. Maybe we all will be soon, too, to a greater or lesser degree. BTW, not all Isaan is under water either. In fact, a week or so ago, I sent my wife back to her family home about an hour out of Khon Kaen because I thought it would be safer. She has some health problems and needs to be able to get to a decent hospital and already two weeks ago I was fearing what might happen to medical facilities here in Bangkok. Anyway, NanLaew is just the tip of the iceberg of what is going to be a mass of angry folks soon.

You are too generous and kind...........Really! He's always been like that.

[rametindallas]

Top priority for US is to get our troops and equipment out of Iraq and back home so Navy has other things to do and perhaps Thailand is being sensitive to those commitments but we would help anyway.

I hope Thailand gets through this OK. Its just a lot of polluted water. However, the solution to pollution is dilution so it won't be as bad as it otherwise would be without the massive rains.

First paragraph is quite telling I must say. Yes I am sure Thailand declined the offer because of the sensitivities of Iraq troop withdrawl.

Your second paragraph is just ignorant.

Well you can always boil your water or put a little bleach in it before drinking it. You don't have to always drink water from a bottle. It could be worse. There is a lot less to fear in a flood than wars, fires or a nuclear disaster.

What are the people in the flloded areas using to boil their water? non-exixtant electricity, wet wood? Selfish perspective.

[sbk]

One baiting inflammatory comment removed

a couple of trollish comments removed too but really, its too many to go back and remove them all so I am going to ask you very nicely to refrain from trollish inflammatory comments.

I am going to ask that you refrain from baiting and aggressive posts. I realize feelings are high and people are stressed but it is better to maintain civility rather than take it out on each other.

I am asking nicely this time. Do not disappoint me and force me to take more formal action.

[starguard69]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Then it is okay from the US to pull out. Then let's pull ALL the Native-English teachers and US people helping you in Thailand. It is apparent by your statement here you can do everything correctly and without help.

[puntmeister]

One member mentioned that some potential contributors are being asked to contribute money instead of relief articles. Here in CM I have seen several individuals soliciting money for "Thai people", but have not heard nor seen any collection point for donated necessities.

Backhanders are probably not at the top of the agenda for many at present, but the resilience/longevity displayed by some would indicated they will catch up quickly. The record of handling of cash donations during/after past natural disasters should be a big red flag for all potential contributors.

Dunno about Chiang Mai, but I've seen collection points for supplies (mostly, bottled water, but also dry goods) in Mukdahan as well as Pattaya. What's wrong with the folks in the North?

[gl555]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

When a loved one of yours drowns or dies of some disease because this government couldn't save him or her, perhaps you'll change your tune. Perhaps there are political reasons for rejecting the USN's help. That's great. Play politics while people are suffering. More will die and that stupid puppet wants to play politics. The US isn't perfect but they've always been there to help when some disaster strikes somewhere in the world no questions asked.

The Indians declined foreign help during the Tsunami and so did Thaksin. I wonder how many more lives could have been saved if they weren't so stubborn. It's easy to play with other people's lives when your own family is safe and you don't really give a shit about the people you're supposedly serving.

[Orac]

Just to play devils advocate here, the quote in the OP seems a bit odd:

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP

It is not clear if the 'government' bit was said at all as I have not seen anyone speak in brackets before.

There are posts here showing exsamples of the PM asking for help and the US military offering it before so could the branch ofd 'government' that is refusing help be the Thai military as the US military will obviously have high level contact with them directly due to the annual Cobra Gold exercises. There would also be the face issue as they would not want to see a foreign military doing what they are not capable of and, to be really cynical, would they really want a foreign military active on the streets of Bangkok if there wanted mount a coup to take control at some point.

Also it would be very difficult to overule the Thai military if they put a block on this without a major diplomatic incident (or indeed point the finger of blame!).

[Maverell]

yep , or simply we dont want youhere america is the message

I bet they would take more $$$$$ from the USA if that was offered. I wonder why ?

[hkt83100]

But there's loads of water here already. That's the main problem. Why on earth would Thailand want more?

You are welcome to drink the muddy stuff!

[noitom]

Before this wreck is done, Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Disease will likely break out due to people being forced into unhealthy living conditions.

I hope I am wrong but I see bad things ahead.

"Unhealthy living conditions" is a milddefinition of the problem - It's gargantuan. Disease and contamination is andhas been the main issue. Astonishing how little has been mentioned about thisin the Thai press. Hardly a word. It's rather obvious when you look at thosephotos of people in waist deep waste. Where are they urinating and defecating?Where are all those dogs urinating and defecating? right where they eat is theanswer. Right where they are standing. What about the dead animal corpses ofdogs and cows and horses that have just drowned or starved to death? Are theyjust decomposing in the flood water with all that fecal matter? Is thatcontaminated garbage, decomposed animals, and extensive fecal matterflood water flowing through hundreds of clinics and hospitals? This in analready suspect sanitary condition and unhygienic nation. I've seen photos of people preparing food in a make shiftmarket with flood water up over their waste and others just waiting for thefood. I don't see any sign of the government ever "cracking down" onsanitary conditions for as long as I can remember. Why should they worry now?Well , I hope I am wrong too, but we'll have to hope that there are no outbreaks of Cholera and Typhoid as well as many other outbreaks and health problems. Yet the newspapersstill run articles promoting that travel is safe in many areas and tourismshould be unaffected. Business news keeps promoting that we'll be re open forbusiness in 45 days. The Thai flood disaster sets up a sitting duck healthdisaster with an unusually large scale. It just mystifies me as to how thegovernment and business leadership could just ignore making preparations forhuman relocation on advance notice as well as put measures in place to offsetthe hygiene and health issues. In photographs, you can also note the dogs andcats being invited in to the temporary encampments at Thammasat and Don Muang and now being moved toNational Stadium. I hope that I am wrong about this major disease thing, butwhen I see the Thai government refusing the aid of three or four US Navy shipsand personnel for two weeks, I have to resist the temptation, knowing Thais, is that theyalready know something terrible that we don't and they don't want outsiders being alerted tothe scale of the problem. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the Thai people whohad no power to do anything on their own and are stuck depending on a failed stateto help and communicate solutions.

[OzMick]

Are you saying that the Prime Minister didn't know the US Navy was there, and offering help? Or that the Prime Minister didn't have a chance to make one phone call to the US Ambassador to ask for the US Navy's help? Or if asked for help by the Prime Minister, the US Navy would decide to not help based on info from any other government source? In other words, the US Navy sails here from Singapore, for the sole purpose of offering massive amount of help, was then asked by Thailand's Prime Minister for help, but become some other government knucklehead says that help isn't needed, the US Navy would not heed the request by the Prime Minister? There is no way the Prime Minster and her team was not involved in this decision to turn down help from the US.

So far there is no indication as to who exactly refused USA naval help.

There are 6 pages of assumption here that it was the Prime minister or her team.

Usually, humanitarian aid is delivered at the request of the government of that country, eg.

United States response to the government of Georgia request for humanitarian assistance.

http://www.navy.mil/...?story_id=39246

The supplies are being delivered to Moscow after an official request from the Russian government.

http://www.usafe.af....?galleryID=8740

at the request of the Indonesian government.

http://en.wikipedia....,_Indonesia.jpg

I agree but, being politically savvy folks, perhaps they took a "NO" from the higher authority located somewhat to the West.

[Abduljabbar01]

You have not been to Korea have you or did business with a Korean?

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

its not stupidity its arrogance. Thais are some of the most arrogant people on the planet. The average rice farming peasant is far more arrogant than the average American suburbanite. Amazing for a so-called Buddhist nation. Amazing Thailand.

They built dykes and levies instead of pipes and canals. They had over a month to prepare but did nothing. Arrogance.