Letter From Thaksin Shinawatra

[lannarebirth]

Middle bits left out....

So then, military then does not do it.

I agree that Thaksin seems to be the only one skirting the law regarding having his rank stripped as well as non-compliance with the law requiring he give up his royal decorations as per the law that he himself signed into effect.

.

The military can get away with murder (and has done) and not get done in Bucholz. Why would they flee? They only get transferred.... The untouchables.

I don't think the military has murdered more people than the police, do you? Far far far from it, I would guess. Why always the one sided comdemnation?

[animatic]

The Nation just reported that Thaksin will not be on the list to receive a pardon. That's according to Pracha. PAD has also cancelled its rally. I wonder if the reds will follow and stop their protest or will they continue their nonsense. There's still urgent flood issues to be dealt with.

But if the rule as formulated is for those between the ages of 60-63

he is included without being named.

So a simple red herring to say this.

No he won't be specifically named.

[scotbeve]

Middle bits left out....

So then, military then does not do it.

I agree that Thaksin seems to be the only one skirting the law regarding having his rank stripped as well as non-compliance with the law requiring he give up his royal decorations as per the law that he himself signed into effect.

.

The military can get away with murder (and has done) and not get done in Bucholz. Why would they flee? They only get transferred.... The untouchables.

So the solution to lawlessness and lack of accountability is more lawlessness and lack of accountability?

Aleg,

Not at all, who's promoting lawlessness? Not me... As I sai above, the military is untouchable and always have been in Thai history. The military is not accountable for their actions in civilian society - never has been. And they keep their titles no matter what they have done - unless I'm missing the odd, rare case

@Bucholz, you may have misunderstood me....

[animatic]

recalling Anand's speech now

http://www.thaivisa....way-to-tyranny/

This speech should get more attention, it is underestimated and hopefully not a sad reality in TH soon. Doesn't look promising at the moment though.

Indeed.

Though I will note that the Council of State just shot down the attempt

at handing Thaksin's brother in law total control over the press.

They may be 70-80 but that was thinking clearly.

Dont know. The people have bought this upon themselves, why should they interfere.

Because it IS their job to vet legislative initiative for legality.

Thrown out because it is constitutionally unsound.

They said it is against the law, and Thaksins crew backed down.

Makes no difference what the voters says, just being voted into office doesn't mean you can write laws that violate the constitution, no matter of you like the constitution or who wrote it. The people voted on it and it's a done deal, until changed by voter passed referendum. So laws MUST abide be it's tenets. End of story.

[DLock]

Thaksin is like a snake.

His letter says very little. It is full of emotive languages and images, but does not refute anything or say that he wont come back if granted a pardon.

It will go something like this.

TS - "Please don't do anything that will benefit just me"

YS - "We didnt. This decree will benefit 2,000 prisoners that are older than 60 and sentenced to 2 years or less"

TS - "I cant come back. I dont want to upset the Thai people. You must continue without me"

YS - "But they love you Boobie. They want you to come back"

TS - "Do you really think they love me and want me back?"

YS - "Yes....do it for your people"

TS - "Aw shucks Sis...ok, I'll do it, I'll come back...prepare my plane"

YS - "Fantastic...but this conversation never took place...I dont know anything about this"

TS - "Whatever...just prepare the arrival party and get the hell out of my job"

I hate snakes.

[scotbeve]

Middle bits left out....

So then, military then does not do it.

I agree that Thaksin seems to be the only one skirting the law regarding having his rank stripped as well as non-compliance with the law requiring he give up his royal decorations as per the law that he himself signed into effect.

.

The military can get away with murder (and has done) and not get done in Bucholz. Why would they flee? They only get transferred.... The untouchables.

I don't think the military has murdered more people than the police, do you? Far far far from it, I would guess. Why always the one sided comdemnation?

Quite right lannarebirth, sorry, I should have thrown the bib in this fray as well. As to whom has the highest head count, IMO they won't be too far apart in numbers. Whereas the military goes in bulk numbers, the bib's head count is at a (high) singular-one-at-a-time head count.

[AleG]

Aleg,

Not at all, who's promoting lawlessness? Not me... As I sai above, the military is untouchable and always have been in Thai history. The military is not accountable for their actions in civilian society - never has been. And they keep their titles no matter what they have done - unless I'm missing the odd, rare case

@Bucholz, you may have misunderstood me....

Fair enough; let's not hold our breaths for a PTP government to go after corruption thou.

[Buchholz]

@Bucholz, you may have misunderstood me....

hmmm... difficult to misunderstand short, straight-forward statements:

BTW is k. Thaksin still entitled to sign with 'Police Lt. Col.' ?

Probably so.... The military does it...

but, if you say so.

.

[scotbeve]

Aleg,

Not at all, who's promoting lawlessness? Not me... As I sai above, the military is untouchable and always have been in Thai history. The military is not accountable for their actions in civilian society - never has been. And they keep their titles no matter what they have done - unless I'm missing the odd, rare case

@Bucholz, you may have misunderstood me....

Fair enough; let's not hold our breaths for a PTP government to go after corruption thou.

AleG,

I'm sure we ALL would like to see ANY administration go after corruption.... To the best of my knowledge, there NEVER has been an administration willing to do so. Indeed, no need to hold our breath. Corruption has been embedded in Thai society for so long it has turned into a tradition than rather a scourge... A slight side track here... just thinking out loud, but, I wonder how much money the Permanent Secretary of Transport actually had in his house. 200MBaht!!!???

[Buchholz]

YS - "But they love you Boobie."

What a lovely term of endearment.

[hammered]

Aleg,

Not at all, who's promoting lawlessness? Not me... As I sai above, the military is untouchable and always have been in Thai history. The military is not accountable for their actions in civilian society - never has been. And they keep their titles no matter what they have done - unless I'm missing the odd, rare case

@Bucholz, you may have misunderstood me....

Fair enough; let's not hold our breaths for a PTP government to go after corruption thou.

AleG,

I'm sure we ALL would like to see ANY administration go after corruption.... To the best of my knowledge, there NEVER has been an administration willing to do so. Indeed, no need to hold our breath. Corruption has been embedded in Thai society for so long it has turned into a tradition than rather a scourge... A slight side track here... just thinking out loud, but, I wonder how much money the Permanent Secretary of Transport actually had in his house. 200MBaht!!!???

Around where I live the 200M baht case is bigger than the Thaksin issue and far more talked about. It seems the corrupt bureaucrats are despised more than politicians. People seem to want to see punishment in this case and it seems are already convinced the guy is totally guilty. I was actually surprised at the level of feeling over this. Then again I guess most people have suffered at the hands of corrupt officials far more than at the hands of politicians who do at least extend a bit of largesse on occasions or even those populist policy thingies.

[ajarnyai]

I think Thaksin and the government both realized they wouldn't win this one, and decided to do a little "face" saving. They turn a defeat into a win in the eyes of their supporters with all of this I'm thinking about the people crap. To say " I wouldn't except the pardon even if he gave it to me is OBVIOUS BULLSH*T." First of all that statement makes no sense. The forgiveee has no say on the forgiveness, and of course, he would. He would receive a Royal endorsement for all his future activities. That's why the government chose this method for his return in the first place. There is one person in Thailand that you just can't argue with. It would be a brilliant ploy if they pulled it off.

This is almost as bad as Yingluck's "My helicopter can't fly at night" BS. Just more poorly constructed lies to appease people who don't really matter anyway.

[scotbeve]

Aleg,

Not at all, who's promoting lawlessness? Not me... As I sai above, the military is untouchable and always have been in Thai history. The military is not accountable for their actions in civilian society - never has been. And they keep their titles no matter what they have done - unless I'm missing the odd, rare case

@Bucholz, you may have misunderstood me....

Fair enough; let's not hold our breaths for a PTP government to go after corruption thou.

AleG,

I'm sure we ALL would like to see ANY administration go after corruption.... To the best of my knowledge, there NEVER has been an administration willing to do so. Indeed, no need to hold our breath. Corruption has been embedded in Thai society for so long it has turned into a tradition than rather a scourge... A slight side track here... just thinking out loud, but, I wonder how much money the Permanent Secretary of Transport actually had in his house. 200MBaht!!!???

Around where I live the 200M baht case is bigger than the Thaksin issue and far more talked about. It seems the corrupt bureaucrats are despised more than politicians. People seem to want to see punishment in this case and it seems are already convinced the guy is totally guilty. I was actually surprised at the level of feeling over this. Then again I guess most people have suffered at the hands of corrupt officials far more than at the hands of politicians who do at least extend a bit of largesse on occasions or even those populist policy thingies.

hammered,

Agree 100% with you.... the "middle men" have sucked the country dry for far too long. Wonder if there has been a "factual" study on actually how much the "middle men" have eaten?

[hammered]

Brilliant letter on level of political analysis. His opponents would far rather the amnesty had been pushed now. Maybe though there never was an amnesty plan. Most of these gambits have subtexts and intentions different from the obvious, and Thaksin is especially good at playing a game many steps ahead of his opponents who usually react to the obvious but miss the more subtle.

[hammered]

hammered,

Agree 100% with you.... the "middle men" have sucked the country dry for far too long. Wonder if there has been a "factual" study on actually how much the "middle men" have eaten?

It would imho be far more dangerous to try and realistically look at that kind of stuff than trying to overthrow a politician. In many ways I guess the early Thaksin and new money manouvers were to wrest control of this group from the traditional side and it was here they first all fell out. Now things have moved off in several other directions and become a lot more complicated and to some degree ideological

[MrChangers]

Has the wedding been postponed until when the time is right? Come back and face the courts of law, like most other people regardless of how wealthy (in money) you might be.

No word on a delay for his daughter's wedding, scheduled in 3 weeks, on December 12th.

As the Shinawatra wedding is shaping up to be quite the shindig (pun intended) at the 5-star Plaza Athenee Hotel, changing the schedule might be difficult, although billionairess's have many options most others do not.

.

I do hope the hotel has not been affected by the floods and some sandbags have been placed at the front door. It would be horrific if the bride had to wade through the chest high sewerage that a lot of others are having to endure.

[Skywalker69]

As a former police officer he probably knows that the personal handwriting shown here, regardless of content, is not shaky enough, much too readable to be of real interest. Who would not be concerned ? I've noticed that in the kingsize Thai family bed children while sleeping often seem to dance around like sensitive needles of a universal compass. During day they are also rather difficult to follow and supervise but certainly not less interesting. How old is Mr. Thaksin ?

62 years.

[yoshiwara]

Brilliant letter on level of political analysis. His opponents would far rather the amnesty had been pushed now. Maybe though there never was an amnesty plan. Most of these gambits have subtexts and intentions different from the obvious, and Thaksin is especially good at playing a game many steps ahead of his opponents who usually react to the obvious but miss the more subtle.

Actually, he's not that good at all. He is a classic overreacher and his methods don't change much.

[yoshiwara]

The Nation just reported that Thaksin will not be on the list to receive a pardon. That's according to Pracha. PAD has also cancelled its rally. I wonder if the reds will follow and stop their protest or will they continue their nonsense. There's still urgent flood issues to be dealt with.

link please.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Pracha-rules-out-Thaksins-pardon-30170283.html

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/PAD-cancels-rally-30170285.html

Still waiting to see if Khwanchai will call his protests off.

Before the election the Red Shirts were staging protests pretty much every week asking for justice for the people killed during last year's riots. After PTP wins, puf! Not a blip.

Then Thaksin needs a bit of "moral support" and the clowns spring like a Jack-in-the-box.

Red Shirts not about Thaksin my arse.

Interesting comment about the light on/light off switch re the justice issue.

[maidu]

Brilliant letter on level of political analysis. His opponents would far rather the amnesty had been pushed now. Maybe though there never was an amnesty plan. Most of these gambits have subtexts and intentions different from the obvious, and Thaksin is especially good at playing a game many steps ahead of his opponents who usually react to the obvious but miss the more subtle.

Actually, he's not that good at all. He is a classic overreacher and his methods don't change much.

I agree he's not that good at playing the game, unless the game is paying for votes, telling the voters what they want to hear (hint: you'll all get rich with me in power) and powering his way to the top of TRT.

In many ways, he's played 'the game' badly, but was able to get away with it. He split for the Olympics and lied while promising to return forthwith. Is that playing the game well? Indeed, nearly everything the man has done in the past 15 years revolves around lies and deceit. Is that playing the game well. If I had $5 billion and didn't have any scruples about lying about everything I was involved with (while trying to cause trouble in Thailand), I could probably command some ink on newspaper front pages also.

[TAWP]

hammered,

Agree 100% with you.... the "middle men" have sucked the country dry for far too long. Wonder if there has been a "factual" study on actually how much the "middle men" have eaten?

It would imho be far more dangerous to try and realistically look at that kind of stuff than trying to overthrow a politician. In many ways I guess the early Thaksin and new money manouvers were to wrest control of this group from the traditional side and it was here they first all fell out. Now things have moved off in several other directions and become a lot more complicated and to some degree ideological

So now it isn't the Amart that has stolen most? Was that decided before or after we rightfully pointed out that several members of PTP and hang-arounds are most likely part of the Amart too?

[rubl]

The interesting aspect of the topic is not the handwritten part, but the fact that it has been send to the media in ENGLISH as well...

Perhaps Thaksin did not trust the English-language newspapers to translate his letter correctly. Every publication would probably have come up with a different English text.

I was wondering why the message about this (by now) non-issue should be sent to 'the media' which I interpreted as 'foreign media'. Maybe I was wrong in my interpretation ?

[yoshiwara]

Brilliant letter on level of political analysis. His opponents would far rather the amnesty had been pushed now. Maybe though there never was an amnesty plan. Most of these gambits have subtexts and intentions different from the obvious, and Thaksin is especially good at playing a game many steps ahead of his opponents who usually react to the obvious but miss the more subtle.

Actually, he's not that good at all. He is a classic overreacher and his methods don't change much.

I agree he's not that good at playing the game, unless the game is paying for votes, telling the voters what they want to hear (hint: you'll all get rich with me in power) and powering his way to the top of TRT.

In many ways, he's played 'the game' badly, but was able to get away with it. He split for the Olympics and lied while promising to return forthwith. Is that playing the game well? Indeed, nearly everything the man has done in the past 15 years revolves around lies and deceit. Is that playing the game well. If I had $5 billion and didn't have any scruples about lying about everything I was involved with (while trying to cause trouble in Thailand), I could probably command some ink on newspaper front pages also.

The money is a way of keeping score, but it is the power which he craves. State power. Being out of power represents failure and however much he moves to pull strings from outside the country it is not the real thing. So he comes back and back like Freddy Krueger.

Edited November 21, 2011 by yoshiwara

[scorecard]

hammered,

Agree 100% with you.... the "middle men" have sucked the country dry for far too long. Wonder if there has been a "factual" study on actually how much the "middle men" have eaten?

It would imho be far more dangerous to try and realistically look at that kind of stuff than trying to overthrow a politician. In many ways I guess the early Thaksin and new money manouvers were to wrest control of this group from the traditional side and it was here they first all fell out. Now things have moved off in several other directions and become a lot more complicated and to some degree ideological

So now it isn't the Amart that has stolen most? Was that decided before or after we rightfully pointed out that several members of PTP and hang-arounds are most likely part of the Amart too?

And the likes of barnhan, sanoh, chalerm, vatan, all mega rich, and there are many many more, coming down to your local poor farmer who got invited to pay his deposit and become of the the local lackies and now lives in a mega mansion in Ubon or wherever, with several luxury cars in the drive way. These are not amart.

[scotbeve]

hammered,

Agree 100% with you.... the "middle men" have sucked the country dry for far too long. Wonder if there has been a "factual" study on actually how much the "middle men" have eaten?

It would imho be far more dangerous to try and realistically look at that kind of stuff than trying to overthrow a politician. In many ways I guess the early Thaksin and new money manouvers were to wrest control of this group from the traditional side and it was here they first all fell out. Now things have moved off in several other directions and become a lot more complicated and to some degree ideological

So now it isn't the Amart that has stolen most? Was that decided before or after we rightfully pointed out that several members of PTP and hang-arounds are most likely part of the Amart too?

Maybe very few PTP could be considered Amart - most likely much more in the other camp.... the point being is that IMO, government officials, especially appointed ones, have had a very big slice of the cake throughout the years. This would include: the BIB, military, land, agriculture, transport, tax, BMA, labor, justice, etc departments really that have done well for themselves on massive case-by-case fingers in the cookie jar situ.... Be interesting if a comparative study could be done without lead and chain shoes in the water threats! Though high numbers over USD$10 billion (reported as fact) are mind-boggling.... Amart vs slimey middle-men... Anybody seen any historical, accrued "tea money" estimates ?

[Buchholz]

I agree he's not that good at playing the game, unless the game is paying for votes, telling the voters what they want to hear (hint: you'll all get rich with me in power) and powering his way to the top of TRT.

In many ways, he's played 'the game' badly, but was able to get away with it. He split for the Olympics and lied while promising to return forthwith. Is that playing the game well? Indeed, nearly everything the man has done in the past 15 years revolves around lies and deceit. Is that playing the game well. If I had $5 billion and didn't have any scruples about lying about everything I was involved with (while trying to cause trouble in Thailand), I could probably command some ink on newspaper front pages also.

Factor in his platinum mine in Zimbabwe (the bastion of democracy) or his gold mine in Tanzania (whose president has an extensive history of corruption), and you'd have quite a bit more than $5 billion.

.

[yoshiwara]

Whether it is terms like 'elite' or 'amart' used they are intended by the Thaksin cheerleaders to place an established group (the establishment) on one side and the rest of the population on the other. The core, the diamond centre of the red apologist position is that Thaksin as an 'excommunicated' member of the political leadership of the country finds himself leading the oppressed groupings of Thailand and therefore to be unconditionally supported. It is a position encouraged by the man himself who finds it useful to hold his supporters together. All these terms (elite etc) are coy references to class namely ruling class, working class, peasantry etc., and although last year the reds tried to paint the situation as one of class wafare, the paint-pot seems to have suddenly been put away except selectively for red village consumption. It needs to be stated time and again that Thaksin represents a split in the ruling class. That he may have a minority position is irrelevant, his aspiration is that of placing his own capitalist interests at the centre of state power. His signing of the letter as Police Lt. Col. is that his law is the law. Or rather should be. He ain't no criminal! He's the sheriff!

[Buchholz]

Whether it is terms like 'elite' or 'amart' used they are intended by the Thaksin cheerleaders to place an established group (the establishment) on one side and the rest of the population on the other. The core, the diamond centre of the red apologist position is that Thaksin as an 'excommunicated' member of the political leadership of the country finds himself leading the oppressed groupings of Thailand and therefore to be unconditionally supported. It is a position encouraged by the man himself who finds it useful to hold his supporters together. All these terms (elite etc) are coy references to class namely ruling class, working class, peasantry etc., and although last year the reds tried to paint the situation as one of class wafare, the paint-pot seems to have suddenly been put away except selectively for red village consumption. It needs to be stated time and again that Thaksin represents a split in the ruling class. That he may have a minority position is irrelevant, his aspiration is that of placing his own capitalist interests at the centre of state power. His signing of the letter as Police Lt. Col. is that his law is the law. Or rather should be. He ain't no criminal! He's the sheriff!

Epitomized by his not even following the law that he himself makes.

Thaksin willing to return royal decorations

The Nation - October 13, 2008

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will likely agree to return all of his royal decorations if required to by law, Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said yesterday.

If Thaksin fails to appeal the Supreme Court's guilty verdict and two-year jail sentence against him in the Ratchadaphisek land case, the Knight Grand Commander (Second Class, higher grade) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chula Chom Klao would need to be recalled.

A PM's Office decree endorsed by then-PM Thaksin in August 2005 gives eight criteria for the recalling of royal decorations, including if a person is convicted by the highest court and ordered to serve time in prison.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Epilogue: Thaksin DID fail to appeal his guilty verdict, but has never complied with the recall law he himself signed.

.

[Briggsy]

give him a break he cant even afford a laptop, had to write a letter

Actually, a handwritten letter, as opposed to a typed one, is often used for correspondence which is both very formal and highly personal. In the UK, the PM will include a handwritten note to the families of servicemen and women killed in action.

[scorecard]

Whether it is terms like 'elite' or 'amart' used they are intended by the Thaksin cheerleaders to place an established group (the establishment) on one side and the rest of the population on the other. The core, the diamond centre of the red apologist position is that Thaksin as an 'excommunicated' member of the political leadership of the country finds himself leading the oppressed groupings of Thailand and therefore to be unconditionally supported. It is a position encouraged by the man himself who finds it useful to hold his supporters together. All these terms (elite etc) are coy references to class namely ruling class, working class, peasantry etc., and although last year the reds tried to paint the situation as one of class wafare, the paint-pot seems to have suddenly been put away except selectively for red village consumption. It needs to be stated time and again that Thaksin represents a split in the ruling class. That he may have a minority position is irrelevant, his aspiration is that of placing his own capitalist interests at the centre of state power. His signing of the letter as Police Lt. Col. is that his law is the law. Or rather should be. He ain't no criminal! He's the sheriff!

Good analysis, totally agree, especially the spin about the so called 'elites'. Nothing more than an amsterdam smokescreen but unfortunately lots of people buy it.