Chalerm: No Backing Down On Thaksin Amnesty

[webfact]

SHINAWATRA GOVERNMENT

Chalerm: No backing down on Thaksin Amnesty

The Nation

The pardon for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has not been put on the backburner and the government is just biding its time until the right occasion comes along, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said yesterday.

"The Pheu Thai Party has a clear policy on the amnesty issue," he said.

The draft amnesty law was ready and he would not back down from bringing Thaksin home, he said.

The amnesty law would be pushed through at an opportune time, he said, declining to elaborate on his plans.

The pardon for Thaksin would be part of broader legislation for reconciliation, he said.

Thida Thawornseth, chairwoman of the red-shirt movement, said she expects the political struggle to heat up because the red shirts would push for a charter amendment after the House reconvenes on December 21.

"The red shirts will strive to cancel the 2007 Constitution and all unjust laws sponsored by the 2006 coup," she said.

The ultimate goal was to promulgate a charter designed to end power seizures in any form, she said.

She said she wanted to see the rule of law prevail in Thailand where the judicial process could function without any interference from the "ammat" regime, a phrase referring to the extra-constitutional power.

The 73 red shirts held in remand should be released on bail pending trial or accommodated in a special detention facility, she said.

The work of the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand should be supported although the TRCT could be more proactive in uncovering factual evidence on last year's political unrest, she said.

The TRCT has drawn the wrong conclusion by attributing the chaos to the Constitution Court verdict favouring Thaksin in his asset concealment case, she said.

"The root case for turmoil is not Thaksin but the refusal of the ammat regime to hand over power to the people," she said.

That refusal is the reason why the transition from absolute monarchy to democracy has been rocky, she said.

The red-shirt movement will continue to work for the overhaul of the political system regardless of the stance of the Pheu Thai Party, she said, insisting the movement and the party are two separate entities.

The movement is scheduled to hold a mass rally on Saturday in Sakon Nakhon.

Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn said the red-shirt MPs from Pheu Thai would spearhead the drive to include the charter rewrite on the House agenda.

-- The Nation 2011-12-15

[maidu]

I can picture it: Chalerm and his buddies adding a clause to the Constitution:

"All middle aged former PM's found guilty of tax evasion and/or evading the law by running overseas with broken promises of returning after watching the Olympics, will be pardonned."

We've already got a word for 'striving for a goal which is out of reach.' 'quixotic.'

Perhaps we should add a similar new word; 'Chalermic' : 'repeatedly striving for an out-of-reach illegal goal.'

If anyone doubts that Chalerm, Yingluck, the FM, (plus essentially all of PT and the Reds) are not full tilt aiming for Thaksin to get back in the PM's chair a.s.a.p., then they're no paying attention or they're fooling themselves to a dangerous degree.

[maidu]

Thida (a leader of the Reds) said she wanted to see the rule of law prevail in Thailand

Hello Ms Thida, your hero and guru, Mr. Thaksin, often says he didn't get justice from Thai jurists. Plus, he's running from the law. How does that fit with your insistance on 'rule of law'? Did your beloved Reds respect the 'rule of law' when they commandeered downtown for two months in 2010?

[jaidam]

I totally fail to see how an amnesty for political "crimes" can be helpful to Thaksin, who has been convicted on a criminal charge and has many other criminal charges pending.

[glenfaux]

"waiting for the right occasion to come along"

Open the floodgates at the dams and we will get another shot at it.

[Ricardo]

Thida (a leader of the Reds) said she wanted to see the rule of law prevail in Thailand

Hello Ms Thida, your hero and guru, Mr. Thaksin, often says he didn't get justice from Thai jurists. Plus, he's running from the law. How does that fit with your insistance on 'rule of law'? Did your beloved Reds respect the 'rule of law' when they commandeered downtown for two months in 2010?

To be fair to Ms Thida, she has always said that she isn't a Thaksin-supporter, which is perhaps why she has always struggled to get much support from the rest of the movement. Indeed wasn't there an attempt to ease her out, just after the election, when the support of the UDD had become less-needed by PTP ?

But Deputy-PM Chalerm is quite clear, forget the immediate universal minimum-wage of 300B/day or the many other policies upon which their 48.4% of-the-vote was also based, "the amnesty law would be pushed through" and Thaksin's pardon is the priority, pity for the poor that he's not as determined with the rest of PTP's electoral-commitments.

[rixalex]

Thida (a leader of the Reds) said she wanted to see the rule of law prevail in Thailand

Hello Ms Thida, your hero and guru, Mr. Thaksin, often says he didn't get justice from Thai jurists. Plus, he's running from the law. How does that fit with your insistance on 'rule of law'? Did your beloved Reds respect the 'rule of law' when they commandeered downtown for two months in 2010?

Indeed.

Might have been more accurate for her to have said, "i want to see my own cherry-picked rules of law prevail in Thailand".

[rixalex]

To be fair to Ms Thida, she has always said that she isn't a Thaksin-supporter,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just another one with, "i'm not a Thaksin supporter but..." syndrome. She'd be in good company here.

Of course she doesn't support Thaksin. That's why, she talks about respecting the law, but omits to make any mention of Thaksin facing justice, is why she hasn't declared any opposition to Thaksin being white-washed, is why she sees no great significance in Thaksin's assets concealment case of 2001, vis-a-vis, where we are today, and is why she went along to the Appeals Court recently to offer Potjaman moral support in her successful bid to avoid paying taxes.

If this is how she treats people she doesn't support, imagine how she must gush with those she does! (sorry for the mental picture)

[Ricardo]

To be fair to Ms Thida, she has always said that she isn't a Thaksin-supporter,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just another one with, "i'm not a Thaksin supporter but..." syndrome. She'd be in good company here.

Of course she doesn't support Thaksin. That's why, she talks about respecting the law, but omits to make any mention of Thaksin facing justice, is why she hasn't declared any opposition to Thaksin being white-washed, is why she sees no great significance in Thaksin's assets concealment case of 2001, vis-a-vis, where we are today, and is why she went along to the Appeals Court recently to offer Potjaman moral support in her successful bid to avoid paying taxes.

If this is how she treats people she doesn't support, imagine how she must gush with those she does! (sorry for the mental picture)

Floods of gushing ?

But very few Red-Shirt leaders actually claim not to support Thaksin, she therefore stands out, and IMO it does cost her a lot of support from her fellow Red-Shirts. Whether she's just a lone voice of relative-sanity, or part of the smoke-screen, who knows ? But just compare her to a Thaksin-loyalist like the Deputy-PM or Noppadon !

Edited December 15, 2011 by Ricardo

[David48]

That refusal is the reason why the transition from absolute monarchy to democracy has been rocky, she said.

Educate me here please guys ... whose platform is the above mentioned policy?

Are there any other referances previously in the Media about a "transition from absolute monarchy to democracy"?

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[webfact]

Dep PM Moves Ahead with Amnesty Law

A deputy prime minister insists the government will continue its effort to enact amnesty for the fugitive former Premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobumrung said his governing Pheu Thai Party has not delayed its endorsement of the amnesty law, and it will be entitled the draft Reconciliation Act.

Therefore, all parties, including fugitive former Premier Thaksin Shinawatra, will benefit from the campaign.

Chalerm remarked that he has never intervened in the police investigation about the deaths of 91 people killed during the crackdown on last year's red-shirt protests.

However, he said state attorneys have already determined that Democrat government officials were responsible behind-the-scenes for the killing.

He advised the Opposition to file the motion with the Parliament so that he can clarify his work over the issue.

The deputy premier denied that there will be coordinated bomb attacks during the New Year holidays.

He only referred to last year's bombing on Bangkok's 10 important landmarks during December 31st, 2007 to raise public awareness and prevent potential sabotage so that the tragedy does not repeat again this upcoming new year.

Regarding the plan by Democrat's senior Suthep Thaugsuban to file a charge of malfeasance against him for taking no action over the failed bomb attempt in Rathcadamneon Avenue, Chalerm said he is not a police officer and he cannot deliver additional disclosure over the matter given the lack of evidence.

-- Tan Network 2011-12-15

[dominique355]

She said she wanted to see the rule of law prevail in Thailand where the judicial process could function without any interference from the "ammat" regime, a phrase referring to the extra-constitutional power.

The 73 red shirts held in remand should be released on bail pending trial or accommodated in a special detention facility, she said.

Let me get that straight: She wants to see the rule of law prevail and at the same time special detention facilities for the red shirts?

Do these people ever think before they talk?

But she got one thing right, the "ammat" should stop interfering in the judicial process.

BTW, the present "ammat" i.e. those in power, are the Pheu Thai and Reds Shirts.

[rixalex]

But very few Red-Shirt leaders actually claim not to support Thaksin, she therefore stands out, and IMO it does cost her a lot of support from her fellow Red-Shirts. Whether she's just a lone voice of relative-sanity, or part of the smoke-screen, who knows ? But just compare her to a Thaksin-loyalist like the Deputy-PM or Noppadon !

The "i don't support Thaksin" claim is, as i see it, just a variation on the "this movement isn't all about Thaksin" theme, sung by many a red shirt leader. With some of them, such as Thida, i do believe they sincerely would like the movement to be about something more - but deep down, they know it isn't. Deep down they know that the poor are simply being used once more, and that all the work they do will do little if anything to raise the standards of those people. It's the elites and the power players within their movement, (and that includes Thida herself) who are the ones who stand to benefit from it all (just like pretty much all the other political movements in Thailand) .

Edited December 15, 2011 by rixalex

[hellodolly]

Thida (a leader of the Reds) said she wanted to see the rule of law prevail in Thailand

Hello Ms Thida, your hero and guru, Mr. Thaksin, often says he didn't get justice from Thai jurists. Plus, he's running from the law. How does that fit with your insistance on 'rule of law'? Did your beloved Reds respect the 'rule of law' when they commandeered downtown for two months in 2010?

I think it is another case of bad reporting by the nation.

They left out the part where she wants strict adherence to the rule of law after she changes it to suit her private ambitions.

[Buchholz]

To be fair to Ms Thida, she has always said that she isn't a Thaksin-supporter,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just another one with, "i'm not a Thaksin supporter but..." syndrome. She'd be in good company here.

Of course she doesn't support Thaksin. That's why, she talks about respecting the law, but omits to make any mention of Thaksin facing justice, is why she hasn't declared any opposition to Thaksin being white-washed, is why she sees no great significance in Thaksin's assets concealment case of 2001, vis-a-vis, where we are today, and is why she went along to the Appeals Court recently to offer Potjaman moral support in her successful bid to avoid paying taxes.

If this is how she treats people she doesn't support, imagine how she must gush with those she does! (sorry for the mental picture)

"I'm no fan of Thaksin, but..."

From Manager, December 3, 2010

The cartoon shows Thaksin hiding behind Anug San Suu Kyi on the left and new Red Shirt leader Thida Thavornsed. The caption reads: He is blamed for hiding behind the skirt of this lady and, therefore, he establishes this other lady instead.

["Hiding under his wife's skirt" or "hide behind her blouse" is a Thai idiom that means shielding oneself with the support of a female. When Anug San Suu Kyi was released from detention there were several attempts to equate Thaksin's plight with hers. More recently political non-entity Thida Thavornsed was appointed head of the Red Shirts. As she is mainly known as the wife of a political figure, her appointment is seen as a way for other powerful figures (such as Thaksin) to control the movement through her.]

Edited December 15, 2011 by Buchholz

[renaissanc]

The only things left that we don't know are:

1. The date when the continuous demonstrations and protests opposing Chalerm's and Thaksin's stupidity will start.

2. How many people will be injured and killed by the Red Shirts when they lay into the demonstrators.

3. Who the Red Shirts will blame for the casualties.

4. The date when, in view of the demonstrations, violence, and casualties, Thaksin has to back down again and says again that he has no intention of returning to Thailand or to interfere in Thai politics.

Edited December 15, 2011 by renaissanc

[gl555]

What a bunch of scumbags though I'm pretty sure if they bring him back, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Can we say coup?

[hyperdimension]

That refusal is the reason why the transition from absolute monarchy to democracy has been rocky, she said.

The Red Shirts are clearly anti-monarchist and the leaders are working for Thaksin and the Shinawatra clan who want absolute power. They are using the guise of "democracy" to attempt to achieve this goal.

Edited December 15, 2011 by hyperdimension

[AleG]

That refusal is the reason why the transition from absolute monarchy to democracy has been rocky, she said.

The Red Shirts are clearly anti-monarchist and the leaders are working for Thaksin and the Shinawatra clan who want absolute power. They are using the guise of "democracy" to attempt to achieve this goal.

I can't tell you what the Red Shirt taxi driver was saying this morning, and didn't want to get in arguments with the guy, but when he was parroting about France and Russia I wonder if the demagogues that have been brainwashing the guy told them what followed directly after that...

[Buchholz]

The draft amnesty law was ready and he would not back down from bringing Thaksin home, he said.

The draft of the amnesty has been written. The public needs to have the Pheu Thai inner circle whistleblowers that spilled the beans on the secret Cabinet meeting for the pardon to leak a copy of this draft to the public.

Bring on the insider moles.

.

[wxyz]

But of course, why else do you think Thaksin is in Cambodia & Singapore?

[TAWP]

That refusal is the reason why the transition from absolute monarchy to democracy has been rocky, she said.

The Red Shirts are clearly anti-monarchist and the leaders are working for Thaksin and the Shinawatra clan who want absolute power. They are using the guise of "democracy" to attempt to achieve this goal.

I can't tell you what the Red Shirt taxi driver was saying this morning, and didn't want to get in arguments with the guy, but when he was parroting about France and Russia I wonder if the demagogues that have been brainwashing the guy told them what followed directly after that...

Indeed. Some days I which I had not removed the sms I got some time back from a Red Shirt supporter, outlining what 'they know' (eluded to earlier on this forum, cannot repeat due to LM) that basically included words and charges that said about any of your family members would get you extremely upset. And in Thailand land you in jail under the normal defamation law. I am highlighting that since some people think that a removal of LM law etc would somehow mean that all Red Shirt arguments would be ok to air as they are merely 'inconvenient'. And that is a highly distorted picture. But some days I wish we could actually print what is being said to highlight the fact that these are highly vulgar and abusive messages being sent, some on web-boards, some through SMS etc.

Anyway, a lot of this 'handed around info' came from somewhere from the start. And many, inside the movement, directly credit the radio stations and publications from within as the originator. This isn't a CIA contra-propaganda trick - this is what people are being feed during a lot of 'information meetings' in villages and other channels.

Oh, and Thailand went from absolute monarchy to a democracy in 1932. And now HRM basically shares the same direct political power as the King in my homeland.

[hyperdimension]

How about some words from the red shirt supporters? Have you all gone quiet?

[Soutpeel]

Got to love the google ad which pop's up with this thread...

"APPLY NOW...Study LLB (Hons) Law with criminology at the London School of business"

[Buchholz]

Got to love the google ad which pop's up with this thread...

"APPLY NOW...Study LLB (Hons) Law with criminology at the London School of business"

Sounds funny. How does one get to see these google ads?

.

[473geo]

It would appear that an ex prime minister of France received only a suspended sentence recently.....

Perhaps the French.......users of madame guillotine......have gone soft in modern days

[KKK]

As I see it:

No matter what amnesty/pardon Thaksin may or may not get he will always be GUILTY of the charges that he has been convicted of. Only a reversal of the courts decision would make him NOT GUILTY. For that to happen he'd have to return here, go to jail, make an appeal and/or ask for a retrial.

So Thaksin is a CROOK, CRIMINAL, FELON, THIEF, whatever you would like to call him. That is not libel or slander but what the Thai court found him to be and the TRUTH until proven otherwise. And some want him back as PM! Just who is running this country; the Mafia?

Edited December 17, 2011 by KKK

[wxyz]

As I see it:

No matter what amnesty/pardon Thaksin may or may not get he will always be GUILTY of the charges that he has been convicted of. Only a reversal of the courts decision would make him NOT GUILTY. For that to happen he'd have to return here, go to jail, make an appeal and/or ask for a retrial.

So Thaksin is a CROOK, CRIMINAL, FELON, THIEF, whatever you would like to call him. That is not libel or slander but what the Thai court found him to be and the TRUTH until proven otherwise. And some want him back as PM! Just who is running this country; the Mafia?

probably

is there a POOL started, for when Thaksin returns?

i might want to buy a square or two.

Edited December 18, 2011 by wxyz

[scorecard]

That refusal is the reason why the transition from absolute monarchy to democracy has been rocky, she said.

The Red Shirts are clearly anti-monarchist and the leaders are working for Thaksin and the Shinawatra clan who want absolute power. They are using the guise of "democracy" to attempt to achieve this goal.

Plus, there recent actions (with lots of engineered photo ops) to claim they support strict and hard application of the LM laws is also a nasty and insincere smokescreen.

[scorecard]

As I see it:

No matter what amnesty/pardon Thaksin may or may not get he will always be GUILTY of the charges that he has been convicted of. Only a reversal of the courts decision would make him NOT GUILTY. For that to happen he'd have to return here, go to jail, make an appeal and/or ask for a retrial.

So Thaksin is a CROOK, CRIMINAL, FELON, THIEF, whatever you would like to call him. That is not libel or slander but what the Thai court found him to be and the TRUTH until proven otherwise. And some want him back as PM! Just who is running this country; the Mafia?

probably

is there a POOL started, for when Thaksin returns?

i might want to buy a square or two.

Quote: 'For that to happen he'd have to return here, go to jail, make an appeal and/or ask for a retrial.' Well stictly by the written law you are correct but my fear is that chalerm and his ilk will try to introduce a law, or whatever, which simply overrides the law and overrides the convictions in place, and cancels any further cases. That's the scary part.