Abhisit: Thaksin Not Eligible For Thai Passport

[webfact]

Abhisit: Thaksin Not Eligible for Thai Passport

The Opposition Party Leader urged the government to act responsibly in issuing a Thai passport to the fugitive former leader.

Opposition Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva reiterated that Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra must take responsiblity after Foreign Minister Surapong Towichakchaikul’s approved the reissue of the Thai passport of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Abhisit pointed out that Thaksin, who is also the older sibling of the premiere, remains a fugitive and has not served time in a corruption case conviction.

Consequently, Thaksin should not be eligible for a new passport.

In addition, the officials that lend a hand in the re-issuance should also be held responsible in the matter.

Abhisit asked why the government concealed the process of issuing the passport.

Apart from that, the legal adviser to Thaksin, Noppadon Pattama, earlier denied that Thaksin had sent any petitions asking for a new passport.

Meanwhile, the Pheu Thai Party spokesman and party list MP Prompong Nopparit insisted that the premiere had nothing to do with returning the passport since it is under the authority of the Foreign Minister.

Prompong blasted the Democrats, saying the moves are politically motivated and meant as an attack against the government and a ways of discrediting the Premiere.

He also threatened to counter-sue the Democrats, should the Democrat's legal team decide to press charges against the Premiere.

Moreover, Prompong revealed that there are insurgents that are aiming to topple the government after the New Year Festival.

-- Tan Network 2011-12-19

[Moruya]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

[pimay11]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Someone???????

[garrfeild]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Well the Insurgent has got his passport back now.

Compare this where in the UK if you need a new passport but owe the tax man money, they won't issue you with the new passport till you pay back the money.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Apparently ditto for the U.S. There was a post here recently from an American seeking professional tax help in BKK because, after a decade of not filing any U.S. tax returns, he found that the U.S. consulate here wouldn't issue him a new passport when he went to try to replace his expiring/expired one... They had a hold on any new passport for him because of the unpaid taxes.

But in Thailand, apparently, you can be a convicted criminal who's jumped bail and fled the country prior to sentencing on corruption charges, and still get your new passport delivered via government diplomatic pouch with next-day service -- even though you haven't asked for a new one (so the legal advisor claims....)

Abhisit pointed out that Thaksin, who is also the older sibling of the premiere, remains a fugitive and has not served time in a corruption case conviction.

Consequently, Thaksin should not be eligible for a new passport.

Abhisit is undoubtedly correct that Thaksin "should not" be eligible.... But the question is, "IS' he eligible under the government's laws and regulations.

As I've seen them quoted in other posts, it sounds/seems like the government (this or any others before or after it) has discretion to decide one way or the other -- in the absence of some court ruling/order prohibiting the issuance/holding of a passport.

Edited December 19, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[exeter]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Well the Insurgent has got his passport back now.

Compare this where in the UK if you need a new passport but owe the tax man money, they won't issue you with the new passport till you pay back the money.

Yes I am sure they are working on that, due start very soon, the government will start to look into this in about 5 years time .

[exeter]

Apparently ditto for the U.S. There was a post here recently from an American seeking professional tax help in BKK because, after a decade of not filing any U.S. tax returns, he found that the U.S. consulate here wouldn't issue him a new passport when he went to try to replace his expiring/expired one... They had a hold on any new passport for him because of the unpaid taxes.

But in Thailand, apparently, you can be a convicted criminal who's jumped bail and fled the country prior to sentencing on corruption charges, and still get your new passport delivered via government diplomatic pouch with next-day service -- even though you haven't asked for a new one (so the legal advisor claims....)

Abhisit pointed out that Thaksin, who is also the older sibling of the premiere, remains a fugitive and has not served time in a corruption case conviction.

Consequently, Thaksin should not be eligible for a new passport.

Abhisit is undoubtedly correct that Thaksin "should not" be eligible.... But the question is, "IS' he eligible under the government's laws and regulations.

As I've seen them quoted in other posts, it sounds/seems like the government (this or any others before or after it) has discretion to decide one way or the other -- in the absence of some court ruling/order prohibiting the issuance/holding of a passport.

Where is the justice ministry when you need them? Interesting to see if they have a comment to make but then again it might not be in their interestes to if they want to see in the New Year, sorry to be a bit cynical but what goes on here is not what we have seen before is it, the term "moving the goalposts" springs to mind

[Morgo]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

[sirchai]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Someone???????

Consequently, Thaksin should not be eligible for a new passport.

There's no more to ad........

[wombat]

has discretion to decide one way or the other

in a nut shell

[whybother]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

He doesn't need a Thai passport to return to Thailand. He has many others.

Is there an international arrest warrant?

And since when is a passport an entitlement?

[exeter]

Under the previous administration, they did in public try to get Mr T returned to Thailand to serve his sentance, however, to have got him back in the country would have caused other problems when he was back, so how hard were they reallt trying? Now he has the passport he can come back but now he has different problems. Would he be arrested and dumped in the chokey? The new adminstration has a problem, sure they want him back by all accounts as do a lot of the locals but there also a lot of the locals who do not so there are more than one issue going on here and after all is done would he chance coming back? His life expectancy may over ride his ego in this sort of situation.

Either way Dogma versus the Law could clash and in the name of Thailand? Really would have thought the top priorty right now would be to rebuild the country after the floods, try prosper the country as a whole, bring up the living standards of the less well off in society, but then what do I know.

[jayjayjayjay]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

There are two decent replies to this thread. It is not about whether Abhisit "thinks" he "should not" be eligible, it is whether he is entitled to under law. If you are a citizen you have the right to apply given the correct documentation/proof etc. If the corresponding foreign service does not have the authority to arrest on site any person with an arrest warrant, then they have no choice but to issue the passport according to the legal rights of the citizen.

[renaissanc]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Someone???????

Does anyone in Pheu Thai ever tell the truth?

[sirchai]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

Passports are usually issued to prevent convicted criminalsfrom traveling. Why didn’t he come back on his Montenegro’s Passport then? Wasn’tit because a two year sentence was waiting for him?

[KKK]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

He doesn't need a Thai passport to return to Thailand. He has many others.

But most of the other passports would require him to apply for a visa. Not that that should be difficult to obtain. But with a Thai passport he can come back with no visa requirements.

This new Thai passport should be valid for only ONE direction of travel...STRAIGHT TO THAI JAIL. No travel other than that should be allowed on it. He is a convicted felon on the run after all. To issue a passport allowing total freedom of travel is condoning his exile.

So to me it is not a matter of should he or shouldn't he have a passport it is more of where he is allowed to travel on that passport that is the major question...

Edited December 19, 2011 by KKK

[khaowong1]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

You are so, so wrong. No one is "entitiled" to a passport. Passports are issued by your home country so you may travel to another country. If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

[scorecard]

Under the previous administration, they did in public try to get Mr T returned to Thailand to serve his sentance, however, to have got him back in the country would have caused other problems when he was back, so how hard were they reallt trying? Now he has the passport he can come back but now he has different problems. Would he be arrested and dumped in the chokey? The new adminstration has a problem, sure they want him back by all accounts as do a lot of the locals but there also a lot of the locals who do not so there are more than one issue going on here and after all is done would he chance coming back? His life expectancy may over ride his ego in this sort of situation.

Either way Dogma versus the Law could clash and in the name of Thailand? Really would have thought the top priorty right now would be to rebuild the country after the floods, try prosper the country as a whole, bring up the living standards of the less well off in society, but then what do I know.

"Either way Dogma versus the Law could clash and in the name of Thailand? Really would have thought the top priorty right now would be to rebuild the country after the floods, ...."

Agree, very large focus on rebuilding after the floods (with spending way beyond what is affordable long term) would have been a way to get lots of big brownie points for the next election. But no .....

By the way, regardless of any other actions, chalerm will do whatever is needed, moral or immoral to get him back and regardless of what other problems it will generate. Just watch.

[KKK]

If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

And your name happens to be Thaksin Shinawtra. I wonder how many other Thai felons have passports? It should be all of them if this Thaksin passport is indeed legitimate.

[Thai at Heart]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

You are so, so wrong. No one is "entitiled" to a passport. Passports are issued by your home country so you may travel to another country. If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

Simply having a passport doesn't mean anything. It doesn't enshrine a right to leave a country, and merely submitting your passport doesn't mean that immigration have to let you leave or let you enter.

I would submit that if he can get yourself to Thai immigration with a proof of Thai citizenship, they would be honour bound to let you enter, whether or not you had a passport. Isn't there a statement in the constitution that the government cannot strip someone of their thai citizenship, and they cannot deny entry to a Thai person?

[scorecard]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

You are so, so wrong. No one is "entitiled" to a passport. Passports are issued by your home country so you may travel to another country. If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

Agree. All countries must have a pragmatic stance whereby they have an option to cancel the passports of their citizens. But of course they must be defined reasons for such actions. And gaining a criminal record (in own or any other country - plus being on the run internationally) is surely a valid reason.

Say a foreigner has entered Thailand and is iving in Thailand, and then his/her home country gains information about say massive fraud / pedophile activity (in home country), the home country starts legal action in absentia (possible in many countries) and convicts on rock solid evidence. Surely that country has a duty to try to get the person back on home soil and also has a duty to stop the person from fleeing to other countries.

[KKK]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

You are so, so wrong. No one is "entitiled" to a passport. Passports are issued by your home country so you may travel to another country. If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

Simply having a passport doesn't mean anything. It doesn't enshrine a right to leave a country, and merely submitting your passport doesn't mean that immigration have to let you leave or let you enter.

I would submit that if he can get yourself to Thai immigration with a proof of Thai citizenship, they would be honour bound to let you enter, whether or not you had a passport. Isn't there a statement in the constitution that the government cannot strip someone of their thai citizenship, and they cannot deny entry to a Thai person?

Section 36 of the 1997 constitution says "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

But that is not really the issue. He would need a passport to LEAVE wherever he is and a visa (depending on passport used to travel) to get on a plane. Easiest way that I can see is a Thai passport valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. The rest of the points made here are all academic....should he shouldn't he etc....it is where he is allowed to travel to that should only be considered.....

[BigJohnnyBKK]

There are two decent replies to this thread. It is not about whether Abhisit "thinks" he "should not" be eligible, it is whether he is entitled to under law. If you are a citizen you have the right to apply given the correct documentation/proof etc. If the corresponding foreign service does not have the authority to arrest on site any person with an arrest warrant, then they have no choice but to issue the passport according to the legal rights of the citizen.

Depends on the country, it's laws and its interpretation of "rights".

There are no truly inherent "rights" inherent in belonging to the human species on this planet. Some people would like to think that what we from farang-land consider basic human rights have some chance of being universally applied through a single world-wide government one day, but then keep in mind they can (and IMO are more likely to) be taken away universally as well.

The US is one of the few that has included a right to travel in Supreme Court judgements, but it is always balanced against other competing rights and interests, often in favor of the government - but I thought in cases of compelling security issues - the idea of back taxes overriding is new to me and I'd like to see some links on that.

In most countries the issuance of travel documents is considered a privilege.

What the UN might have to say about it is IMO irrelevant.

In Thailand the current government has "the right" to do what it likes, because as we all know, laws are only applied to serve the interests of those with real power - the law itself is given little more than lip service 99.99% of the time.

And that's the way it is. . .

[garrfeild]

Apparently ditto for the U.S. There was a post here recently from an American seeking professional tax help in BKK because, after a decade of not filing any U.S. tax returns, he found that the U.S. consulate here wouldn't issue him a new passport when he went to try to replace his expiring/expired one... They had a hold on any new passport for him because of the unpaid taxes.

But in Thailand, apparently, you can be a convicted criminal who's jumped bail and fled the country prior to sentencing on corruption charges, and still get your new passport delivered via government diplomatic pouch with next-day service -- even though you haven't asked for a new one (so the legal advisor claims....)

Abhisit pointed out that Thaksin, who is also the older sibling of the premiere, remains a fugitive and has not served time in a corruption case conviction.

Consequently, Thaksin should not be eligible for a new passport.

Abhisit is undoubtedly correct that Thaksin "should not" be eligible.... But the question is, "IS' he eligible under the government's laws and regulations.

As I've seen them quoted in other posts, it sounds/seems like the government (this or any others before or after it) has discretion to decide one way or the other -- in the absence of some court ruling/order prohibiting the issuance/holding of a passport.

Where is the justice ministry when you need them? Interesting to see if they have a comment to make but then again it might not be in their interestes to if they want to see in the New Year, sorry to be a bit cynical but what goes on here is not what we have seen before is it, the term "moving the goalposts" springs to mind

Yes one goal post is in Burma the other in Cambodia!

[Thai at Heart]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

You are so, so wrong. No one is "entitiled" to a passport. Passports are issued by your home country so you may travel to another country. If you violate you own countries laws, your passport can be cancelled and revoked. This is recognized around the world, except, it seems, here in Thailand.

Simply having a passport doesn't mean anything. It doesn't enshrine a right to leave a country, and merely submitting your passport doesn't mean that immigration have to let you leave or let you enter.

I would submit that if he can get yourself to Thai immigration with a proof of Thai citizenship, they would be honour bound to let you enter, whether or not you had a passport. Isn't there a statement in the constitution that the government cannot strip someone of their thai citizenship, and they cannot deny entry to a Thai person?

Section 36 of the 1997 constitution says "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

But that is not really the issue. He would need a passport to LEAVE wherever he is and a visa (depending on passport used to travel) to get on a plane. Easiest way that I can see is a Thai passport valid for travel BACK TO THAILAND AND JAIL ONLY. The rest of the points made here are all academic....should he shouldn't he etc....it is where he is allowed to travel to that should only be considered.....

So of precisely what benefit is it to give him a Thai passport? It is a political story not a practical one. Is it worth anymore than a Montenegran passport? He already has passports that allow him to travel around, so whilst it is a bit of a bitch of a story to talk about the government giving him his passport back, isn't the issue largely cosmetic? Of course, most people here don't understand much about citizenship rights or passports, so giving him his passport is probably more a cosmetic thing for his supporters to feel that he is gearing up to come back. Of course, there may also be the completely cosmetic thing that immigration maybe can put you in detention if you arrive at the airport with nothing more than a Thai birth certificate whilst they prove you are Thai. He probably doesn't want any obstacles at all to get in the way.

Has anyone ever wondered if there is even the slightest chance that maybe he doesn't have proper citizenship? Who the hell knows with the systems that they have here.

There is nothing stopping him coming back to Thailand, there should definitely be something stopping him leaving Thailand. Funny thing is of course, a bunch of people thought that a trip to the Olympics was a justifiable reason to let him go.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Someone in PTP is lying. Prompong and Surapong are at odds with the facts. Same as Yingluck says one thing and Chalerm says another.

I know, let's make a common enemy to take the heat off. Fictitious bombers are always good for that. Insurgents are even better.

Someone???????

Does anyone in Pheu Thai ever tell the truth?

Yes!!!!! (but I could be lieing)!!!!!!:jap:.

[Crushdepth]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

There are two decent replies to this thread. It is not about whether Abhisit "thinks" he "should not" be eligible, it is whether he is entitled to under law. If you are a citizen you have the right to apply given the correct documentation/proof etc. If the corresponding foreign service does not have the authority to arrest on site any person with an arrest warrant, then they have no choice but to issue the passport according to the legal rights of the citizen.

There is *no* 'legal right' to have a passport. They are the property of the *government*, not the individual, and courts usually *confiscate* them from people deemed flight risks. Furthermore, the application form for a passport usually requires you to declare if you have any *outstanding arrest warrants* or court orders forbidding your departure. Since Thaksin is already a criminal fugitive with multiple outstanding charges, the concept of issuing him with a new passport is ridiculous.

[stickyrice2000]

The whole ordeals are Thai political games. Started out with the Democrats took his passport, citizenship and police status. Pheu Thai won the election, and they will undo what the opponents did. If the people don't want him back, Pheu Thai will never win the election. Democrats, win the election first before making the wave for the peace of your country.

[h90]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

No criminals only get a short time passport (3 month valid) which is only valid for 2 countries/just for the return.

They do not get a full passport. That is the same for most. if not all countries.

This passport is only issued so the airline let you fly.

[Bakseedaa]

The last time I checked Taskin is a citizen of Thailand, therefore he is entitled to a Thai passport.

Passports are usually withheld to prevent nationals from leaving the country where the passport was issued, not withheld to prevent a national from returning to his/her country of citizenship.

As far as the international arrest warrant goes, it seems no country worldwide is willing to recognise the warrant. Therefore we have to assume the warrant is either political or malicious.

There is no international warrant for Khun T. He is only wanted in Thailand. His charge and sentence do not warrant an international search for him. As for the issue of his Thai passport, he is a fugitive on the run, all countries refuse to issue a replacement passport to fugitives on the run. Its a natural legal path to capturing that criminal. And he is welcome to return to Thailand at any time.. I have travelled home to the UK with an expired passport no problem.