Extradited For Non Payemnt Of Credit Card

[ukrules]

I couldn't afford to make payments and the credit card company obtained a court order (judgement) against me, even though I was living here.

This is possible because you most likely didn't respond to it and the person taking the action would win by default due to you being a no show at the court / not responding to the summons.

All you would need to do to get it reversed is inform them that you weren't living in the country and you weren't aware of the action. CCJ's disappear forever after 6 years anyway.

Due to the fact that credit records are deleted entirely after 6 years if you do live abroad for a long time and you return again at some point it can be hard if not impossible to get any form of credit should you need it due to there being no records about your history. You need to literally start again, no matter how good or bad your previous record may have been.

[Beetlejuice]

Usually owing a debt is a civil offence and not an offence that carries a sentence of incarceration., unless it can be proven that money, goods or services were obtained on loan with the INTENT of not paying back the balance owed.

For example, you are no longer in the UK and have made no effort to contact your credit card company regarding your non-payment of debts due. So this could be classified as owing a debt by INTENT, which then becomes a criminal case as theft by deception. In other words, you have deliberately used funds from a creditor without any intentions of paying back the monies borrowed.

For the amount of monies owed that you have described, you could find yourself on an Interpol list of wanted fugitives and it is certainly possible that if you are tracked down in Thailand or someone gives the authorities a tip off, that you will be extradited to face criminal charges back in the UK.

If in the meantime you have used the said credit card in Thailand, then they already know you are here.

When it comes to credit card companies, such as Visa, MasterCard and so on, these are extremely powerful money lending organisations with the power of most worldwide financial institutions behind them. We could say; their arm is long and their vengeance is total.

Rather you than me, buddy. It`s a <deleted> or bust scenario in your situation.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[theoldgit]

No - they didn't 'serve' it at all!

I just received forwarded mail telling me of the Judgement at my 'old' address' in the UK!

So there's your answer, you said they sent it to an old address in the UK, and got Judgement by default. You could have applied to have the Judgement set aside, on the grounds that you were not a UK resident. Did the Credit Card company know you were living overseas?

I still maintain that a County Court Summons cannot be issued to someone living in Thailand.

The card company could have sold the debt to a Thai company and then it could be taken to court here, but under UK law - and that wouldn't happen.

[Hooters]

They will not chase you in Thailand. When I lost my job in oz quite a few years ago a debt went to a collectors agency. These people have no legal jusitrction so after 10 phone calls including threats and harrasament I just kep telling them to <deleted> off on every call, they actually stopped calling.

I did repay the debt eventually though.

DONT go bankrupt they will take your passport.

[Heng]

Best is to renegotiate a deal about paying of your debt. If you just stop paying, the costs will only run higher. In the end they will get court orders and will try to execute the court order in Thailand.

How do they know he's in Thailand? IMO it's common debtor's paranoia. ...And every bank teller he runs into sees a flashing 'deadbeat' icon come up on the screen when he comes in to do a transaction.

[Wallaby]

Whilst not the UK I would imagine it is fairly similar in oz.

My brother had a credit card debt of about $10k and hit hard times due to business failure and couldn't pay it. Called the bank and offered half. Bank refused and sent it off ot a debt collection agency. They called and he again offered half. They refused. They called me to discuss the debt but I was never mentioned on any documentation so I asked where they got my number etc etc. They said I was a reference, I wasn't.

My brother went overseas to work for a number of years. Collection agency came to visit me a number of times (same house as brother) and made threats but I stood my ground and just said that his name isn't on any lease/contract at the home so they can bugger off. I then received calls saying my brother had won a competition and asked when was he home so they could come and deliver it. I knew it was the collection agency and just said I have power of attorney to sign for him so they could deliver it any time they wanted. They never came.

They eventually found out somehow he was in NZ and called him. He said they could shove the debt as it would be off his credit rating in a couple of years. They didn't like that.

When the debt was off his credit file, due to time lapse, he returned to Australia, got a car loan and another credit card. Good to see he didn't overspend on the card and the car loan is fully paid off.

The only issue he had was that the original bank would not give him a credit card. Even though the credit file was clear the bank still had him as a bad debtor on their system so he just applied through another bank that doesn't use the same underwriter for credit cards.

OP, do not do bankruptcy because of your debt. Let them decide whether it is worth the cost of them chasing the debt through court and then having it served internationally etc. The cost to them can be quite expensive and if they think there is no chance of getting money out of you then they probably won't do it.

Do not pay anything off the card as that starts the time running again, unless you think you can pay it off completely. But you will have a bad rating until that debt is paid and it will still show on your credit rating until the time lapse occurs. If you don't pay anything your circumstance is exactly the same.

So either pay little bits until it is cleared, or do nothing. Same time frame for clearance of bad credit.

Up to you.

[chuppachops]

http://www.debtquestions.co.uk/debt_forum/

You will get good advice on here they were very helpful to me a few years back.. good luck mate.

[jamescollister]

People are making a federal case out of some bad debts on credit cards. First no police force in the UK will issue and arrest warrant for a credit card debt unless they can prove the intent to defraud the credit company A lot harder to do than you would think. Joe Smith has had a credit card for 10 years , paying regularly. One day on holiday he falls of his motorbike and can't work, has no money doesn't pay. Do you really think the police are going to sent PC plod of around the world investigating.

Millions of people go broke, lose their jobs every year and all the court orders won't get the money back if they have non.

Don't know about the UK, but in Australia you have to be served a summons to appear, just can't post it to the last know address.

It's all a game of numbers and the collection agents just use scare tactics. Even if you where to bother with a court appearance, the judge will only award what he thinks you can afford and often that is so small that it is not worth collecting. No bank, credit card company or debt collecting agency is going to waste money chasing people that have non.

Think if you look at the numbers of people that have lost their jobs over the last few years the courts would be backed up to 2050. Jim

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Best is to renegotiate a deal about paying of your debt. If you just stop paying, the costs will only run higher. In the end they will get court orders and will try to execute the court order in Thailand.

Absolute BS IMO, not for ten times that piddley amount, just not worth their trouble do the math.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

When it comes to credit card companies, such as Visa, MasterCard and so on, these are extremely powerful money lending organisations with the power of most worldwide financial institutions behind them. We could say; their arm is long and their vengeance is total.

Rather you than me, buddy. It`s a <deleted> or bust scenario in your situation.

piffle what a drama queen

Unless you have local (to them) income or assets that can be attached, they sell the debt off marked down more and more every year, the collection agency write and call, harass your family - which there are laws against but they do.

Then the debt goes away, end of story.

Still better to negotiate paying it off slowly if you can, you'll sleep better at night, such a small amount isn't worth the self-imposed guilt and anxiety. Not to mention the damage to your reputation and relationships with extended family, you can't predict the fallout over the long term.

But no one's going to chase you to Thailand unless it's for millions, and even then they can't actually get anything unless you practically present yourselves to them willingly.

[GuestHouse]

No - they didn't 'serve' it at all!

I just received forwarded mail telling me of the Judgement at my 'old' address' in the UK!

So there's your answer, you said they sent it to an old address in the UK, and got Judgement by default. You could have applied to have the Judgement set aside, on the grounds that you were not a UK resident. Did the Credit Card company know you were living overseas?

I still maintain that a County Court Summons cannot be issued to someone living in Thailand.

The card company could have sold the debt to a Thai company and then it could be taken to court here, but under UK law - and that wouldn't happen.

Your wriggling..... and not very well.

As F1fanatic has confirmed a case against her while she was out of the country, your argument that a County Court cannot hear a case for non residents is shot down.

There is one life line open to you, the case where the person being brought before the court actually is physically and legally outside the jurisdiction, and I think to prove that you'd have to prove that the Credit Agreement was not made with respect to a UK address.

If you lend me money in a Thai bar and I don't pay you back, well of course the UK courts have no jurisdiction, but if you sign a credit agreement (Contract) in the UK against a UK address then yes they have.

[farang000999]

The banks and credit card companies in the UK are not doing great these days. It is your moral obligation to make all required sacrifices to pay these debts and the interest rate (I think it is 18%) associated with the debt that you willingly took on. If this means that you must work 80-120 hours a week, then do so. As others have mentioned, you can probably renegotiate payments on your debt. Again, many bankers and employees in the financial sector have seen their bonuses cut substantially since the financial crisis of 2008 that was beyond their control and right now is not the time to run away from a debt.

Edited December 21, 2011 by farang000999

[chonabot]

This may be a time where filing for bankrupcy may be a answer. You will have to surrender your passport for a little while. Lose much of your assets but then you make a fresh start.

Surely you jest ?

An IVA would be much better - although in this situation neither are the best solution.

[Forkinhades]

The banks and credit card companies in the UK are not doing great these days. It is your moral obligation to make all required sacrifices to pay these debts and the interest rate (I think it is 18%) associated with the debt that you willingly took on. If this means that you must work 80-120 hours a week, then do so. As others have mentioned, you can probably renegotiate payments on your debt. Again, many bankers and employees in the financial sector have seen their bonuses cut substantially since the financial crisis of 2008 that was beyond their control and right now is not the time to run away from a debt.

haha, this thread is so funny

[theoldgit]

Your wriggling..... and not very well

As F1fanatic has confirmed a case against her while she was out of the country, your argument that a County Court cannot hear a case for non residents is shot down.  

There is one life line open to you, the case where the person being brought before the court actually is physically and legally outside the jurisdiction, and I think to prove that you'd have to prove that the Credit Agreement was not made with respect to a UK address.

If you lend me money in a Thai bar and I don't pay you back, well of course the UK courts have no jurisdiction, but if you sign a credit agreement (Contract) in the UK against a UK address then yes they have.

Not wriggling at all, nothing to wriggle out of.

Yes, F1fantastic did have a default County Court Judgement issued against her at an old UK address not here, if the creditor knew she was living overseas and still issued a CC Summons at her old address then they acted illegally and she should have applied to have the Judgement set aside, and then the creditor would have to start from scratch. Even if the creditor did not know she was living overseas she could have still applied to have the default judgement set aside, though she would have to prove the fact to the District Judge that she was living overseas on not on holiday. The facts remain that a County Court Summons cannot be issued to an overseas address.

All this petty arguing is muddying the waters, this is a civil debt with no, apparent, attempt to defraud the Credit Card Company, and as such you cannot be extradited, neither will you be detained at the UK Border if you went back on holiday.

As others have said you should contact the creditor and try to reach a settlement, you have the upper hand.

[tropo]

I donot agree with this it raises the fees for the rest of us and someone pays somehow in the end.

Not true. I don't know what the British credit cards charge for interest, but my Australian credit cards all charge over 20% interest per annum plus big yearly fees and account keeping fees on top of that. It's pretty obvious that defaults on payments are already well compensated for by the rest of us.

[endure]

Ask your question here. The folks on there actually know what they're talking about rather than making it up as they go along

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?266-Overseas-Debt-Overseas-Account-issues

[roamer]

"I've got a great credit rating in the UK but have not got the funds to keep paying off a debt which I've had to go in t o"

No you ain't (credit rating) stop paying and it's gone. If you intend returning (to same address) within 2 years, have an unusual surname, going to maintain existing banks etc, then think about a repayment plan. Otherwise, screw 'em. Your debt has been sold on, the point at which companies generally consider anything other than a passive watch is around 2 years. Moral obligations ? Banks & debt collection companies, don't make me laugh.

[ste860]

You creditors cannot take court action against you in the UK as you are not a UK resident.

WRONG !

Not wrong at all, county court action can only be initiated against somebody resident in the UK. I certainly tried tried to take somebody to court, I was not able to do so as the person was out of jurisdiction. You need to provide the court with a UK address to serve the summons.

Maybe you could do more than provide a one word answer and give the person seeking help the benefit of your knowledge.

this is right after 6 years it becomes statute barred as long as you dont contact or make any payments ,even one letter or phone call from you starts the clock ticking again

only civil debt this affects ,,council tax ,income tax its longer

no one can issue a ccj against you if your not in the country anymore ,if they do it can be removed when you go back easilly

so if you have no plans to go back ignore any corrispondence

[autan]

This is an area of expertise that I can offer here. Here are the facts.

In answer to your question, NO you cannot be extradited for a non payment of a credit card.

1. A credit card is classified as unsecured lending. This means if you do not pay the debt (the outstanding balance), the credit card company has to obtain a CCJ (County Court Judgement) if the debt is under 5000 GBP or a High Court Writ if it is over 5000 GBP.

2. You are under no obligation to pay an unsecured debt in England. This means you are expected to make payments as per your credit agreement but you are not obliged to pay.

3. If you stop making payments, the credit card company will attempt to call, write to you for around 90 days. If they cannot reach you, then they must issue a Default Notice. A Default Notice ends the credit agreement as you are now obliged NOT to use the credit card again as this would be a criminal offence under the theft act 2006.

4. Once a default notice has been issued, it is very difficult to obtain credit in the UK again for the next 6 years. After 6 years the notice will drop off your credit file if paid or not.

5. if you make an arrangement with a credit card company and further default then this 6 year period will start whenever they really want it to start, if you make no effort to pay, the 6 year period will start when they issue the default notice.

6. A debt collector must be licenced to collect debts in a foreign country in order to chase a debtor who has moved countries. At present there are only 4 firms in the UK that are licenced to chase debts and non of them have chased a debt for less than 20k, so unless your outstanding balance is more than that and you have no intention to return to the UK for the next 6 years, you could stop paying them and return to the UK in 6 years time thank you very much.

7. If a CCJ or HCW is issued against you the Bailiffs (upon obtaining a warrant of execution) can legally remove any cars belonging to you in the UK. If you are present they can levy prices against goods you own. Be Aware.

8. Oweing money is no longer a criminal offense and so you are untouchable in Thailand, its the UK and any property (not houses but everything), you have there that is at risk.

9. If you rang up your credit card company and explained you are in Thailand with little chance of return but you wish to come to a negotiated settlement, you make find them very co-operative as the alternative is they get nothing or very little.

10. Never enter into an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement), this turns any unsecured debts into secured debts which means they can reposses your home in the UK if they so wish.

[ludditeman]

As others have said you should contact the creditor and try to reach a settlement, you have the upper hand.

Contacting the creditor tends to restart the 6 year clock.

Best to ignore them completely for 6 years, then the debt is no longer enforceable.

[autan]

As others have said you should contact the creditor and try to reach a settlement, you have the upper hand.

Contacting the creditor tends to restart the 6 year clock.

Best to ignore them completely for 6 years, then the debt is no longer enforceable.

To add to this, let me clarify the 6 year clock is from when the account is posted on your credit file as "CLOSED", If you contact them within the 6 years, then it is either re-opened causing the 6 year clock to start again at a later day and then it has be to be reclosed at a later date. This new future day is when the 6 years starts from, which is why people are giving you the time scale of 7 years. In fact sometimes it can take a 1 year to be marked as uncollectable and closed. So they are right by in what they say.

[JSixpack]

Anyone so incompetent at managing money as the OP can't possibly live in Thailand for 6 years.

[citizen33]

The other aspect here is that Thailand is not a secure refuge from eventual return to the UK. If the OP's finances are precarious it isn't going to be easy to meet the requirements for continuous residency over a long period of time, and he might well find himself forced to leave. There is therefore self interest in doing what people have suggested and reaching some arrangement with the CC company.

Incidentally, though I've never been in debt, it seems that even innocent UK residents now find it hard to escape the attentions of the debt collection companies. The proliferation of debt has spawned a whole industry built on selling on and recovering bad debts, and many of the companies concerned use 'scatter gun' tactics to find the missing debtors. I have had to respond to five different demands for money in the past two years. Two came from two different agencies in respect of the same original Barclays Bank debt owed by somebody of the same name recorded at an address far from mine, and three from people of different names somehow associated with my address. As I have been the occupant for 15 years it is hard to know quite how that happened. Moreover the Barclays Bank debt turned out to be time-expired debt sold on some time before. I made successful complaints to the Data Protection Commissioner and the Ombudsman, but the companies concerned just get a mild slap on the wrist. - my biggest victory was a measily £110 from Aktiv Kapital (one of the bottom feeders in this murky world) via the FOS for wrongly pursuing me for over a year for somebody else's debt. In 2011 I have had to write to a county court to protest that a firm of solicitors was seeking a CCJ in respect of a named person at my address who has never lived here, and more recently had to enter correspondence with a second solicitors partnership (acting for the same principal) who were again threatening to start court proceedings, and claimed that the file passed on to them from the previous solicitors failed to mention that my address had been ruled out. The debt in that case involved the princely sum of GBP 67 - rather disproportionate to the four hours of my time spent on writing letters, assembling documentary evidence and making phone calls. So the actions of people who flee their debts do have a cost for the rest of us..

[Forethat]

I dunno....according to JurgenG you will get arrested at the airport on return if you failed, on departure, to announce that you wouldn't be paying income tax while you were away. He has yet to reveal which country it is though.

So you never know.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Forethat

[marstons]

Best is to renegotiate a deal about paying of your debt. If you just stop paying, the costs will only run higher. In the end they will get court orders and will try to execute the court order in Thailand.

unsecured loans nothing they can do unless its deemed as fraud,

[marstons]

This is an area of expertise that I can offer here. Here are the facts.

In answer to your question, NO you cannot be extradited for a non payment of a credit card.

1. A credit card is classified as unsecured lending. This means if you do not pay the debt (the outstanding balance), the credit card company has to obtain a CCJ (County Court Judgement) if the debt is under 5000 GBP or a High Court Writ if it is over 5000 GBP.

2. You are under no obligation to pay an unsecured debt in England. This means you are expected to make payments as per your credit agreement but you are not obliged to pay.

3. If you stop making payments, the credit card company will attempt to call, write to you for around 90 days. If they cannot reach you, then they must issue a Default Notice. A Default Notice ends the credit agreement as you are now obliged NOT to use the credit card again as this would be a criminal offence under the theft act 2006.

4. Once a default notice has been issued, it is very difficult to obtain credit in the UK again for the next 6 years. After 6 years the notice will drop off your credit file if paid or not.

5. if you make an arrangement with a credit card company and further default then this 6 year period will start whenever they really want it to start, if you make no effort to pay, the 6 year period will start when they issue the default notice.

6. A debt collector must be licenced to collect debts in a foreign country in order to chase a debtor who has moved countries. At present there are only 4 firms in the UK that are licenced to chase debts and non of them have chased a debt for less than 20k, so unless your outstanding balance is more than that and you have no intention to return to the UK for the next 6 years, you could stop paying them and return to the UK in 6 years time thank you very much.

7. If a CCJ or HCW is issued against you the Bailiffs (upon obtaining a warrant of execution) can legally remove any cars belonging to you in the UK. If you are present they can levy prices against goods you own. Be Aware.

8. Oweing money is no longer a criminal offense and so you are untouchable in Thailand, its the UK and any property (not houses but everything), you have there that is at risk.

9. If you rang up your credit card company and explained you are in Thailand with little chance of return but you wish to come to a negotiated settlement, you make find them very co-operative as the alternative is they get nothing or very little.

10. Never enter into an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement), this turns any unsecured debts into secured debts which means they can reposses your home in the UK if they so wish.

Correct answer, why people make shot in the dark answers i dont know. OP you have a UK credit card debt, i worked for Egg in loans department, this is how it is as posted in this post. post saying extraditions orders!!! why post about some thing you know nothing about. Personally i would take it on the chin and pay nothing, it is covered in the intrest rates they charge and i will be sold on very quickly. just for the record Experian and Equifax keep the credit history, and all credit agencies go through them

Edited December 22, 2011 by marstons

[Forethat]

I find this extraordinary interesting, and I'm sure others do as well.

One thing I'm wondering is if a country where a dept is considered a crime, let's say Dubai, couldn't Dubai get someone extradited for failing o pay the debt?

[MAJIC]

Effectively nothing will happen until you return to the UK. Then you will find it impossible to get a loan or mortgage or any other type of credit.

Better to renegotiate in my opinion but they are unlikely to chase you all the way to Thailand unless its a huge sum of course.

Edit: Just read the amounts. They won't be pursuing you over here. But you can expect plenty of unpleasantness and huge bills should you return.

As already mentioned, if you do nothing the debt will steadily grow and grow.

If your doing OK in Thailand why not send some token payments, to at least offset monthly interest charges so it doesn't grow any bigger.

OK thanks for your answers, I will call them and see if I can sort something out.

OK can anyone answer me what's the best bank for sending money back to the UK? Cost wise more than anything say I could get them down to paying the interest and it only costs me 4000Baht a month how much would this cost sent to the UK from Kasikorn bank who I bank with or should I change banks?

The main problem with credit card debts, is the exorbitant interest rates charged by the Banks,so you can pay interest only,which means the debt will never be paid off,so you need to be paying a sizeable amount off the original loan,as well as monthly interest.

Might be worth a try in offering to pay 10-20 % as a once only lump sum payment,in exchange for a clean slate,and cancellation of the debt.

Anything is worth a try in negotiating.

[GentlemanJim]

autan

A simply brilliant post thanks!

Forethat

Regards Dubai. No they cannot extradite you, but beware if ever you set foot there again you will be wearing a stripey sun tan until the debt is paid. They still jail people with debts, indefinitly. Many expats who got caught in the property crash in Dubai were in big debt and the only thing they could do was pack a few belongings as if they were going on Holiday with the family, drive to the airport and leave and never return, leaving all belongings in the house and their car in the carpark at the airport. They could not even tell anyone at their place of employment they were leaving (that would alert the authorities and they would get you at immigration), all they could do was leave...quickly. There are still people trapped in Dubai who cannot leave, there is one woman who lived a very wealthy lifestyle with her husband, who is living in a car and her husband still languishes in jail, in fact there are many such stories. I think I would take my chances with a camel and head off across the desert