Bangkok Goes Global To Woo Back Tourists

[robdub]

The first thing they need to do is sort out that airport. On Tuesday there were only 4 immigration officers processing 2000-3000 people. 3 hours was the time it took to get through. I have been coming to Thailand on and off for 12 years, this is my 12th visit. It's also my last. I will not be degraded and treated like a piece of meat by Thai customs or Thai anyone. Shocking. Appalling. There are now far better options in Asia ( especially the places where those horrible no-frills airlines ringing in thousands of bogans from Australia and Russia don't go ). Other places where people smile and welcome tourists ( like they used to do here ). Places that don't flood and have political turmoil and close down airports. I dare not name my new place of choice lest Jetstar or Air Asia get a hold of it! Thailand, you have lost the plot.

My heart goes out to you! Fancy having to mix with the hoi polloi who flew on the cheap airlines. They should have a special line for "quality" passengers so they can walk (a travellator would be better) straight through with just a wave of their First world passports and a flash of the Rolex. A limo service close to the Immigration doors and a baggage delivery service to all 5* hotels would also be a great idea.

It is appalling that Immigration staff processing ~4 passengers/minute (by your figures) didn't have time to smile, wai, kiss your arse and say "Have a nice day!"

This from OzMick, What was it i said "bogan Australians". I rest my case LOL

[robdub]

And I almost guarantee he flies Jetstar or Air Asia

[eddys]

Forget it Thailand I agree with robdub, two hours through immigration and customs , don't know how many planes came in at the same time but it was hopless at 11.10 in the night. Then I go across the border (with the family) and my 30 day visa (here for 5 days at this stage) is reduced to 15 days, yep really want me here. So new travel arrangements By Bye Thailand I have done more than a dozen trips here and spend lots of money each trip and here in general but NO MORE and I WILL make sure I tell everyone about this joint which is going downhill fast. Prices up (flooding my foot) service down, police shake down for 200 baht every time I go over 80 KM/hour on the open road, want your money not you.

My family is Thai and they must keep their family and tradition but for me forget it. Wait for the website when I get home and the letters to my and the Thai government. As far as business goes Thailand is now my companies least preferred source and no more fair I will in future screw deals to the ground or go else where.

The land of fase smiles , has a ring to it.

[BOS2BKK]

I don't see any photos of Soi Cowboy or Nana Plaza? That's what most Western visitors want to see. If the want to see old temples, they will go to Cambodia. If they want to see pristine beaches, they will go to Bali or Hawaii or Australia. If they want to go somewhere to get ripped off, they will come to Thailand. Any way, that's what my friends are saying in the US.

Bali bites. Thailand's second tier resorts are better than the best Bali has to offer, and the touts on Bali beaches are far worse than those of Thai beaches. The only place I have ever been with more aggressive in your face touts was Jamaica. And the scams are no worse in Thailand than anywhere. Cambodia has Angkor Wat, sure, and Sianhoukville but if you didn't get ripped off by someone in Siem Reap, then you didn't actually go there, and Pnom Pen is a viper pit.The bottom line is you get what you pay for. I avoid Patong beach and Pattaya like they are infested with zombies, and I never have a bad time.

[Tonto21]

Just what is a premium tourist anyway, someone who flies in first class, stays in a 5* hotel and hires a limousine and chauffeur rather than a taxi.

So the airline makes money, the foreign run hotel makes money, the foreign hire company makes money, but what do the Thais get? A low wage and tips if they are lucky.

Now contrast the average tourist, he stays in a budget to 2* hotel, usually run by Thais, he eats in Thai restaurants and roadside stalls. He uses Buses, tuk-tuks, taxis, in fact everything he spends goes into Thai pockets.

Great post, and what you said was spot on, they have not got all their chairs in 1 room, bleeding ridiculous thinking, thinking how and what they do, fly-hotel-food, it's about time someone put these tourist spokespersons in a sack and give it a hell off a shaking to knock the sense back. That 1 week wealthy tourist is contributing sweet f all into the economy, it's the foreign European type tourist that comes here 2 or 3 times a year for holidays that keep local people in work, who in turn spend this money among other local venders. These Well to do types are not the ones that get ripped off, hence the reason nothing much is done to stop the menace. ++out of sight out of mind.

IMHO two very good posts

[Bagwan]

So the BMA is blitzing the World? I suggest that they consult the OED to find the real meaning (in English) of blitz. The nearest that Thailand has ever come to a blitz was when over 50 cops blasted two innocent pensioners and ruined their refrigerator - and a lot of others things too, especially their peace of mind.

Last evening I experienced the extreme pleasure of watching Man U being brought down to earth by a team that most had already consigned to a lower division for the next season, who are managed by a man who has shown more class and displayed more confidence in the abilities of himself and his players than the total output of impatient, loudmouthed morons who purport to support the team. What caught my eye was an advertisement viewed by the 75,000 spectators extolling the virtues of Thailand as a holiday venue. It was written in Thai!!!!!!! My guess is that you could count the number of people who understood the message on one hand. There is an argument that both the moving and static advertisements at English Premier League grounds are seen by millions around the World thanks to the wide TV coverage of games, but who, outside of Thailand can read, or even want to read, anything in a very strange and very limited language? Whoever came up with idea should be escorted to the nearest Funny Farm.

Given the scams and rip offs in Thailand, I see an opportunity for those at a loose end to start a Greenpeace type organisation with people parading the High and Main Streets of first world countries carrying placards setting out the perils and dangers that, it seems, are an essential element of the Thai experience to inform naive travellers. Perhaps the Tourist Authorities of several countries, and their national airlines, would be happy to contribute towards the costs of such an operation.  

Just thinking aloud and ignoring any possible down side.

[Oberkommando]

Cambodia has Angkor Wat, sure, and Sianhoukville but if you didn't get ripped off by someone in Siem Reap, then you didn't actually go there, and Pnom Pen is a viper pit.The bottom line is you get what you pay for.

I've never knowingly been ripped off in Siem Reap or Phnom Penh...

Vietnam is a different ballgame, it's like a national sport over there.

[geriatrickid]

Just what is a premium tourist anyway, someone who flies in first class, stays in a 5* hotel and hires a limousine and chauffeur rather than a taxi.

So the airline makes money, the foreign run hotel makes money, the foreign hire company makes money, but what do the Thais get? A low wage and tips if they are lucky.

Now contrast the average tourist, he stays in a budget to 2* hotel, usually run by Thais, he eats in Thai restaurants and roadside stalls. He uses Buses, tuk-tuks, taxis, in fact everything he spends goes into Thai pockets.

Your math is off. The higher end hotels have higher staff to guest ratios and tend to purchase higher quality Thai products for use in their restaurants. Their linens and supplies are of higher quality. Thy decorate using Thai themes and Thai handicrafts. The chef at the Meridian does not buy the cheapest produce on sale. The cost of that produce benefits everyone up the chain of supply. The staff at the higher end hotels also receive much better pay and benefits than do the staff at the 2* hotels. Do you think those cheap hotels provide health insurance or housing? The higher end hotels invest in staff training. The tax revenue generated from a high end guest exceeds the tax revenues generated by several visitors staying in 2* rooms. Higher end visitors are more likely to visit quality thai restaurants and to purchase the tours to sites or to go shopping and purchase goods and services. I would even venture that the gratuities and tips the higher end person gives exceed the net take from a budget visitor. Low end visitors are welcome in Thailand, but the pricing is such that they are only welcome in low season when only the Indians are here.

[anterian]

Just what is a premium tourist anyway, someone who flies in first class, stays in a 5* hotel and hires a limousine and chauffeur rather than a taxi.

So the airline makes money, the foreign run hotel makes money, the foreign hire company makes money, but what do the Thais get? A low wage and tips if they are lucky.

Now contrast the average tourist, he stays in a budget to 2* hotel, usually run by Thais, he eats in Thai restaurants and roadside stalls. He uses Buses, tuk-tuks, taxis, in fact everything he spends goes into Thai pockets.

Your math is off. The higher end hotels have higher staff to guest ratios and tend to purchase higher quality Thai products for use in their restaurants. Their linens and supplies are of higher quality. Thy decorate using Thai themes and Thai handicrafts. The chef at the Meridian does not buy the cheapest produce on sale. The cost of that produce benefits everyone up the chain of supply. The staff at the higher end hotels also receive much better pay and benefits than do the staff at the 2* hotels. Do you think those cheap hotels provide health insurance or housing? The higher end hotels invest in staff training. The tax revenue generated from a high end guest exceeds the tax revenues generated by several visitors staying in 2* rooms. Higher end visitors are more likely to visit quality thai restaurants and to purchase the tours to sites or to go shopping and purchase goods and services. I would even venture that the gratuities and tips the higher end person gives exceed the net take from a budget visitor. Low end visitors are welcome in Thailand, but the pricing is such that they are only welcome in low season when only the Indians are here.

You rather missed, or avoided my main point. A hotel or restaurant is in the business of making profits, with an international hotel chain like the Meridien most of these profits do not stay in Thailand.

[ginjag]

Just what is a premium tourist anyway, someone who flies in first class, stays in a 5* hotel and hires a limousine and chauffeur rather than a taxi.

So the airline makes money, the foreign run hotel makes money, the foreign hire company makes money, but what do the Thais get? A low wage and tips if they are lucky.

Now contrast the average tourist, he stays in a budget to 2* hotel, usually run by Thais, he eats in Thai restaurants and roadside stalls. He uses Buses, tuk-tuks, taxis, in fact everything he spends goes into Thai pockets.

Your math is off. The higher end hotels have higher staff to guest ratios and tend to purchase higher quality Thai products for use in their restaurants. Their linens and supplies are of higher quality. Thy decorate using Thai themes and Thai handicrafts. The chef at the Meridian does not buy the cheapest produce on sale. The cost of that produce benefits everyone up the chain of supply. The staff at the higher end hotels also receive much better pay and benefits than do the staff at the 2* hotels. Do you think those cheap hotels provide health insurance or housing? The higher end hotels invest in staff training. The tax revenue generated from a high end guest exceeds the tax revenues generated by several visitors staying in 2* rooms. Higher end visitors are more likely to visit quality thai restaurants and to purchase the tours to sites or to go shopping and purchase goods and services. I would even venture that the gratuities and tips the higher end person gives exceed the net take from a budget visitor. Low end visitors are welcome in Thailand, but the pricing is such that they are only welcome in low season when only the Indians are here.

You rather missed, or avoided my main point. A hotel or restaurant is in the business of making profits, with an international hotel chain like the Meridien most of these profits do not stay in Thailand.

geriatrickid............

What does this say 20% high end elite types spend, In my experience very wealthy do not spend recklessly--or for a better word freely, not like the 80% of the regular holiday punters, packers, expats, that go into marts-downtown markets, trains buses, rental-self drive. Can you be honest with a straight answer instead of contradicting all.=== if you argue that the high end tourist is the way forward, and spends most, how much do you really think they spend in total in 1 year, compared to the other end -majority.???????????????? I think your answer to Anterian, is WAY OUT -you have missed the boat. If Thailand is putting this style forward as they spoke about many times ,wanting high end tourists, it is showing now-yes at the moment, by not encouraging good spending tourists, and not getting rid of scams and corruption-and silly Immigration laws. You like Thailand should update and get real.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ginjag

[TAWP]

What are we arguing, what kind of tourists that bring the most tax-money or what kind of tourist that ends up feeding directly to lowest income bracket workers?

Because even under those setups the answers aren't fully obvious when one starts counting in secondary or further on levels of a supply-tree...

[wxyz]

Just what is a premium tourist anyway, someone who flies in first class, stays in a 5* hotel and hires a limousine and chauffeur rather than a taxi.

So the airline makes money, the foreign run hotel makes money, the foreign hire company makes money, but what do the Thais get? A low wage and tips if they are lucky.

Now contrast the average tourist, he stays in a budget to 2* hotel, usually run by Thais, he eats in Thai restaurants and roadside stalls. He uses Buses, tuk-tuks, taxis, in fact everything he spends goes into Thai pockets.

Your math is off. The higher end hotels have higher staff to guest ratios and tend to purchase higher quality Thai products for use in their restaurants. Their linens and supplies are of higher quality. Thy decorate using Thai themes and Thai handicrafts. The chef at the Meridian does not buy the cheapest produce on sale. The cost of that produce benefits everyone up the chain of supply. The staff at the higher end hotels also receive much better pay and benefits than do the staff at the 2* hotels. Do you think those cheap hotels provide health insurance or housing? The higher end hotels invest in staff training. The tax revenue generated from a high end guest exceeds the tax revenues generated by several visitors staying in 2* rooms. Higher end visitors are more likely to visit quality thai restaurants and to purchase the tours to sites or to go shopping and purchase goods and services. I would even venture that the gratuities and tips the higher end person gives exceed the net take from a budget visitor. Low end visitors are welcome in Thailand, but the pricing is such that they are only welcome in low season when only the Indians are here.

Frank Horrigan: "How much more of this shit do I have to listen to? Jesus!"

"In the Line of Fire" (1993)

Edited January 2, 2012 by wxyz

[MikeOboe57]

Arrived at BKK airport with my wife on 28 Dec. After the 12 hr flight I first went to one of the restrooms. Memories from Khartoum airport of 2006 came to my mind. Some tiles had fallen off the wall long ago, the door lock jammed and the whole place was as inviting as a prison cell. After 5 years of use Swampy is apparently quickly falling into disrepair.

As my wife usually takes me through the "thai passport" counters, we so far never had to endure any indecent delays. Leaving the customs section we squeezed ourselves and our trolley through a crowd of people awaiting other arriving passengers. Thanks to a design flaw the available space is limited to an absolute minimum.

The next problem was the lack of sufficient elevators. With 5 pieces of luggage piled on a heavy trolley using the escalators is out of the question. So you wait patiently with other travellers and heavily laden local shop staff at one of the two(?) elevators. Everywhere one can detect signs of shoddy impromptu repairs like missing covers and clumsy wiring. And you notice the inevitable decay that comes along with negligent maintenance.

The poor planning has now forced the airport management to set up a provisional row of "market stalls" on the departure level to accommodate the "smaller" airlines. Cables, improvised signs and cello tape everywhere.

We left this nice place as always - by grabbing a taxi on the arrival level.

On our last trip to BKK in April I thought that the stalls on the arrival level - including the hut for tax refund - were just a momentary inconvenience. But it looks now more like a permanent "solution".

In its current condition the Bangkok Airport is a disgrace. Every time we fly into BKK it looks more like a 3rd world airfield in a failed state. Even in Sudan they are at least trying to improve the conditions at Khartoum airport since my first trip in 2006.

Attract tourists to Thailand? Not with such an airport...

[MikeOboe57]

We left this nice place as always - by grabbing a taxi on the arrival level.

Sorry, the departure level, of course...

[nikster]

I have an Idea, when a tourist goes out of Thailand and has a tour of the the rest of the countries, on re-entry immirgration should give them a 60 day visa on the border.

Yep that's right I just said 60 days on the border. After this visa expires then immirgration could simply look at your passport to see how many times you have been in and out. Let's say it's the third time you have been in and out then issue a 15 day visa.

Maybe this post might cause a storm of posts but I dont think one post could disagree that this would help tourism in a huge way in Bangkok too the small Islands.

IMO this is a complete no brainer. Just do the cost/benefit analysis:

Cost: Zero.

Benefit: Many, many long term tourists - backpackers, and some others - stay in Thailand longer. Their money is spent here instead of in Laos, Cambodia, Philippines, etc.

Just in recent months I've personally witnessed at least 10 people inconvenienced by the visa rules. They had to do visa runs, and once they are flying out of the country, they usually figure they might as well just move on altogether instead of popping in and out of Thailand. Yeah their mistake they didn't have the foresight to inform themselves and get a tourist visa while still in their home country. But who is losing out with this policy? Thailand.

A friend of mine did a border run with me, he got 15 days. Now he's diving in the Philippines, loving it. Whoops?!

[nikster]

Swampy isn't great but you guys are complaining way too much.

Last time I arrived from SFO via HK, the Cathay plane docked near the immigration counters so I was there within about 10 minutes of the plane touching down. 5 minutes later I was in a Taxi to the city - I have to say that was the absolute record for international travel.

There were 20 immigration counters open, they were moving fast - immigration procedure might face the occasional temporary shortage of staff - this is Thailand after all, not Switzerland - but on a normal day they're pretty fast and efficient. Try entering the USA, even when you're a citizen. I think my record for SFO over the years (and at least 20 trips) was 1 hour. Usual is 90 minutes or so.

[bendejo]

Their terms and conditions read - quote

This Contest and these Terms and Conditions shall be governed by the laws of Singapore without regard to the conflict of laws. Each contestant irrevocably submits to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the Singapore courts.

Have I missed a momentous occasion in Thai-Singapore relations that BMA is now run from Singapore? That might explain a lot!

Maybe it was part of the AIS deal?

[Oberkommando]

Swampy isn't great but you guys are complaining way too much.

It's a terrible airport for such a new build is the point. In fact I'd agree that it is a national disgrace, but it is testament to the monumental corruption, and the inept nature of Thai planning and organisation.

FYI, the touts are still there offering illegal taxis to passengers heading towards the public taxi ranks as of yesterday evening.

[mca]

You rather missed, or avoided my main point. A hotel or restaurant is in the business of making profits, with an international hotel chain like the Meridien most of these profits do not stay in Thailand.

Most of the internationally managed hotels are paid a management fee to run the place and the rest goes in the Thai owner's pocket.

[anterian]

You rather missed, or avoided my main point. A hotel or restaurant is in the business of making profits, with an international hotel chain like the Meridien most of these profits do not stay in Thailand.

Most of the internationally managed hotels are paid a management fee to run the place and the rest goes in the Thai owner's pocket.

This would seem to disagree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_M%C3%A9ridien

They are international companies making international profits.

[mca]

From your link

" has acquired the Le Meridien brand, management and franchise business "

[softgeorge]

...is waiting for you to do what?

To bring over your ATM card, silly.

[ginjag]

You rather missed, or avoided my main point. A hotel or restaurant is in the business of making profits, with an international hotel chain like the Meridien most of these profits do not stay in Thailand.

Most of the internationally managed hotels are paid a management fee to run the place and the rest goes in the Thai owner's pocket.

This would seem to disagree http://en.wikipedia....e_M%C3%A9ridien

They are international companies making international profits.

At this high end of the holiday business monies going to the treasury-can easily get spent on corrupt deals.

At the other end of the holiday business one has to think that monies spent at local level= markets venders-guest houses-public transport= this is not going directly into the coffers, it is in the pockets of locals who use it for their kids schools-and families that Thailand mainly forgets. This low end tourist money is the bread winner, as it always was in the past.

But we see the well to do wanting only high end visitors, that match their ideal. SOD the Poor end. ????

[Nisa]

For all thr moaning and complaining it is interesting to note that Thailand is consistently one of the top foreign tourist destinations in all Asia/Pacific.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I have seen strange rationals to try to prove one is right here but trying to say low-end travelers are better for Thais (economically) than high-end travelers is just a very very odd thing to say and believe.

A low end traveler spending a 1,000 baht a day doesn't even compare to the money a high-end traveler will spend on services and goods while here. The places they are spending the money be it malls, restaurants or hotels have tons of Thai staff and buy their wares locally. If an international company makes money on top of this then so be it but the bottom line is the highend traveler is spending considerably more that is going to the hiring of many Thai people (waiters, cooks, maids, security, janitors, laudry workers, maintenance people, drivers, tour guides, clerks, cashiers......) and has a much better and larger impact that a back packer who spends a couple hundred baht a day at the local food stalls. A highend traveler is probably going to leave more VAT dollars in Thailand than a backpacker spends total.

It is great to have all types of visitors but just seems ridiculous to say poorer tourists are better for the country economically.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Just what is a premium tourist anyway, someone who flies in first class, stays in a 5* hotel and hires a limousine and chauffeur rather than a taxi.

So the airline makes money, the foreign run hotel makes money, the foreign hire company makes money, but what do the Thais get? A low wage and tips if they are lucky.

Now contrast the average tourist, he stays in a budget to 2* hotel, usually run by Thais, he eats in Thai restaurants and roadside stalls. He uses Buses, tuk-tuks, taxis, in fact everything he spends goes into Thai pockets.

Your math is off. The higher end hotels have higher staff to guest ratios and tend to purchase higher quality Thai products for use in their restaurants. Their linens and supplies are of higher quality. Thy decorate using Thai themes and Thai handicrafts. The chef at the Meridian does not buy the cheapest produce on sale. The cost of that produce benefits everyone up the chain of supply. The staff at the higher end hotels also receive much better pay and benefits than do the staff at the 2* hotels. Do you think those cheap hotels provide health insurance or housing? The higher end hotels invest in staff training. The tax revenue generated from a high end guest exceeds the tax revenues generated by several visitors staying in 2* rooms. Higher end visitors are more likely to visit quality thai restaurants and to purchase the tours to sites or to go shopping and purchase goods and services. I would even venture that the gratuities and tips the higher end person gives exceed the net take from a budget visitor. Low end visitors are welcome in Thailand, but the pricing is such that they are only welcome in low season when only the Indians are here.

You rather missed, or avoided my main point. A hotel or restaurant is in the business of making profits, with an international hotel chain like the Meridien most of these profits do not stay in Thailand.

If they are making money in Thailand then they will continue to reinvest in Thailand. Not to mention the profits they take are very small in comparison to total revenue they need to spend here to keep operations running.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

...is waiting for you to do what?

come (no pun intended ... ok, there was)

[ginjag]

I have seen strange rationals to try to prove one is right here but trying to say low-end travelers are better for Thais (economically) than high-end travelers is just a very very odd thing to say and believe.

A low end traveler spending a 1,000 baht a day doesn't even compare to the money a high-end traveler will spend on services and goods while here. The places they are spending the money be it malls, restaurants or hotels have tons of Thai staff and buy their wares locally. If an international company makes money on top of this then so be it but the bottom line is the highend traveler is spending considerably more that is going to the hiring of many Thai people (waiters, cooks, maids, security, janitors, laudry workers, maintenance people, drivers, tour guides, clerks, cashiers......) and has a much better and larger impact that a back packer who spends a couple hundred baht a day at the local food stalls. A highend traveler is probably going to leave more VAT dollars in Thailand than a backpacker spends total.

It is great to have all types of visitors but just seems ridiculous to say poorer tourists are better for the country economically.

Strange - rational, odd thing to say and believe, I am also ridiculous am I ??? coming from you thats a joke. I want to say one time only do not try to put others down with your comments, you are not on here for that, so stick to your views, one day defending the poor the next defending the elite tourists. Your comment on the low end travelers 1000 bht a day ??? where did you pluck this figure from to work out YOUR version on who spends more.?? the low end traveler spends up to 3-4 k a day, cross section of packers-short stay (2 weekers)

it was the backpack and the short time sex travelers that were lured here from day 1, from the fishing village of Pattaya, to now, this low end market gave the boost to Thailand and enabled it to become world Known. After that the fever spread to all types. your comments re posters-trying to make them look silly DOES NOT WORK. so please cut out the personal feelings eh !!

[ccarbaugh]

...is waiting for you to do what?

Come quickly

Bring all your money!!!

Leave it here!!!!

Go back home.

Until something is done about the

prevailing National Attitude of

"It's O.K. to cheat/rob/scam...

farangs, " Thailand will continue

it's downward spiral of having previously

BEEN a peaceful, relaxed, friendly

smiling .... country.

[anterian]

High end or low end, each has their place. What about the middle bracket tourist who I suspect is actually the most common? The low end are disparagingly referred to as back packers, yet typical backpackers are usually students, students who as adults will be middle and high end tourists. If they are discriminated against as students they will think twice about returning as high end adult tourists.

If you look at the tourist "hot spots" around the globe they all started off as backpacker venues then gradually went up market, the same applies to Thailand.

You can argue that a high end tourist spends ten times more than a low end tourist, but there are a hundred low end tourists to every high end one, Fly into BKK from Europe and Business and First Class is half full, economy class is packed.