Another Near Miss @ Samui Airport

[starcandle]

A friend of mine told me yesterday that he was in an aborted takeoff at Samui airport. After being delayed for some time

he was eventually called to gate and as the Airbus gunned it down the runway to take off the nose had just started to lift and

all of a sudden the pilot decided to abort takeoff, with the tyres screaming and the engines banged into reverse, all the passengers were

shocked and generally rattled about - a truly frightening experience.

The aircraft eventually came to a stop in the dirty part of the runway that the airplanes don't generally use. Now my friend has a name for exaggeration

and the description I have given does not half describe the way he described it. However when I relayed the story to two friends (a couple),

they told me that they were at the end of the runway waiting to cut across the airport dirt road, they witnessed it and said they were scared as

the velocity of the aircraft was at takeoff speed when the pilot aborted takeoff. The plane slewed across the runway, the tyres rubber turned into a cloud of black

smoke, there was all white smoke coming from the engines, plus all the gravel and loose stones on the end of the runway got sprayed towards all the people waiting to

cross the road. It's not clear but it does appear the the craft was "tech" or had technical problems prior to takeoff, the pilot was not happy and took the said action.

[Orac]

Was he able to have another go - would have thought they would need to change the tyres first????

[starcandle]

Was he able to have another go - would have thought they would need to change the tyres first????

BKK Air asked all passangers to go to the exececutive lounge where they were offered to go on the next flight, a propeller plane.

My friend decided to go back into Bangrak and get drunk as he could only chance 1 near death experience per day.

[limbos]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

[marstons]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

[Hooters]

all jet commercial aircraft have a speed where they are committed to take off and this is before rotation. Its pretty difficult to tell when the nose starts to lift from inside.

[limbos]

all jet commercial aircraft have a speed where they are committed to take off and this is before rotation. Its pretty difficult to tell when the nose starts to lift from inside.

It's called 'point of no return', obviously this plane was (just?) on the right side of that point of no return.

[starcandle]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

The plane was half empty.

[starcandle]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

in my opinion the pilot took the correct action.

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest, I'm in no way pointing a finger at any one, especially as I was not on the flight and I do not know the

precise reason for the take off abort. One thing is certain, the pilot would not have taken the action had he not thought it was absolutely nessesary.

I did notice last night that planes were still coming in at half past midnight.

[limbos]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

in my opinion the pilot took the correct action.

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest, I'm in no way pointing a finger at any one, especially as I was not on the flight and I do not know the

precise reason for the take off abort. One thing is certain, the pilot would not have taken the action had he not thought it was absolutely nessesary.

I did notice last night that planes were still coming in at half past midnight.

It seems we agree on the second part of my post, what about the questions raised in my first part of my initial reply, can you answer them?

IMHO your thread title is rather sensational and how much I despise BKK Airways pricing policy, your thread title sounds as if you got an ax to grind with them.

[insertmembernamehere]

Why is this called, "Another Near Miss"?

Assuming there was any incident at all, and not just hear-say, what did the plane miss?

[Jdietz]

what did the plane miss?

The air...

[BookMan]

doesn't seem like there is a lot of room for error on the samui runway. minimum length allowable is it?

[spindle]

all jet commercial aircraft have a speed where they are committed to take off and this is before rotation. Its pretty difficult to tell when the nose starts to lift from inside.

It's called 'point of no return', obviously this plane was (just?) on the right side of that point of no return.

It's not. It's called V1. This is a speed calculated on the prevailing conditions and weight and pressure altitude.

Up to V1 the aircraft the pilot may abandon the take off. After this speed there is Vr and V2 the pilot must continue the take off

after V1. These speeds are universally applied for all multi engine transport aircraft.

Always a good reason to keep seatbelts tightly fastened.

[limbos]

all jet commercial aircraft have a speed where they are committed to take off and this is before rotation. Its pretty difficult to tell when the nose starts to lift from inside.

It's called 'point of no return', obviously this plane was (just?) on the right side of that point of no return.

It's not. It's called V1. This is a speed calculated on the prevailing conditions and weight and pressure altitude.

Up to V1 the aircraft the pilot may abandon the take off. After this speed there is Vr and V2 the pilot must continue the take off

after V1. These speeds are universally applied for all multi engine transport aircraft.

Always a good reason to keep seatbelts tightly fastened.

Thanks for clarifying, different name for the same thing.

[Tywais]

The various V speed definitions FAR Part 25

[CaptainWindsock]

Why is this called, "Another Near Miss"?

Assuming there was any incident at all, and not just hear-say, what did the plane miss?

The term "Near Miss" is very old terminology used, particularly in the UK, describing an event where two aircraft come in such proximity to each other that there was some risk of a collision. The media loved this term and is stiill used by some journalists. It has been replaced with more technical description which I won't bore you with.

If something goes wrong with an aircraft it is either an accident or incident. An accident is when somebody on board is injured or there is damage to the aircraft. An incident is when something goes wrong but nobody is injured and no damage to the aircraft.

Sounds like the pilot did good job stopping the aircraft. Well done to him, or her.

[insertmembernamehere]

I assume that even though this is a private airport, owned by the airlines in question, there must be a public log of all incidents, near misses and accidents. One of you pilots out there should be able to access this for us.

Or is it that Bangkok Airways can cover this up by simply not responding to questions regarding its record?

[starcandle]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

in my opinion the pilot took the correct action.

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest, I'm in no way pointing a finger at any one, especially as I was not on the flight and I do not know the

precise reason for the take off abort. One thing is certain, the pilot would not have taken the action had he not thought it was absolutely nessesary.

I did notice last night that planes were still coming in at half past midnight.

It seems we agree on the second part of my post, what about the questions raised in my first part of my initial reply, can you answer them?

IMHO your thread title is rather sensational and how much I despise BKK Airways pricing policy, your thread title sounds as if you got an ax to grind with them.

Limbos I'm quite suprised with you, as you have posted so many posts I would have thought that maybe you had heard or read via Thaivisa that,

on the 17th of this month a plane ended up with it's nose stuck in the wall at Samui airport, and not to long ago another plane ended up crashing into the old watch tower, sadly killing the pilot.

Now if you want to consider the saftey factor and ask questions relating to figures I do not have them, however if you take international airports , such as Schipol or heathrow, how many accidents have you heard of in the same time period as the Koh Samui time period ?, also take into consideration the fact that samui maybe takes 18 flights a day and other international airports take several hundred, then ask yourself, the questions your asking me.

And as it happens I do not have an axe to grind with anyone.

[starcandle]

Why is this called, "Another Near Miss"?

Assuming there was any incident at all, and not just hear-say, what did the plane miss?

Derrr let me fink!!!!

or just catch up with old threads

[Tropicalevo]

Why is this called, "Another Near Miss"?

Assuming there was any incident at all, and not just hear-say, what did the plane miss?

From Wikipwedia "A near miss is an unplanned event that did not result in injury, illness, or damage – but had the potential to do so."

I would say that descibes what happened. Assuming that the aborted take off WAS unplanned and not just practice!

[limbos]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

in my opinion the pilot took the correct action.

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest, I'm in no way pointing a finger at any one, especially as I was not on the flight and I do not know the

precise reason for the take off abort. One thing is certain, the pilot would not have taken the action had he not thought it was absolutely nessesary.

I did notice last night that planes were still coming in at half past midnight.

It seems we agree on the second part of my post, what about the questions raised in my first part of my initial reply, can you answer them?

IMHO your thread title is rather sensational and how much I despise BKK Airways pricing policy, your thread title sounds as if you got an ax to grind with them.

Limbos I'm quite suprised with you, as you have posted so many posts I would have thought that maybe you had heard or read via Thaivisa that,

on the 17th of this month a plane ended up with it's nose stuck in the wall at Samui airport, and not to long ago another plane ended up crashing into the old watch tower, sadly killing the pilot.

Now if you want to consider the saftey factor and ask questions relating to figures I do not have them, however if you take international airports , such as Schipol or heathrow, how many accidents have you heard of in the same time period as the Koh Samui time period ?, also take into consideration the fact that samui maybe takes 18 flights a day and other international airports take several hundred, then ask yourself, the questions your asking me.

And as it happens I do not have an axe to grind with anyone.

I'm well aware of the incidents you mention and you forgot to mention the accident that killed people when a plane crashed when the airport just opened it;s doors, crashed in Chaweng, bet you didn't even know about that one, but you're still not answering my question. I didn't ask for a comparison with Schiphol or Heathrow but if you want, it won't be too difficult to find stuff that happened there, remember the plane that cashed near Schiphol in a residential area, killing more people than ever were killed so far in conjunction with USM. There you go.

I was asking information about a similar size airport with similar amounts of movements. That question has still not been answered. I just don't like the insinuation in your thread title. In my opinion USM is a safe enough airport. In general more people get killed on Samui on a daily base in road traffic than over a year at USM. Let's keep it that way and sensational reporting doesn't help or change this fact.

[itishothere]

As starcandle says ..

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest

And I do find it interesting. I am not worried as such, but it does seem that USM has had its' fair share of incidents/accidents/events recently.

Aviation Herald documents about a dozen Rejected Take Offs (RTO) worldwide during Novemer 2011. Is this the total number that actually happened? I have no idea. Is there a public record? I suspect not. I very much doubt that a RTO at Heathrow would hit the headlines unless it was of major newsworthy interest like an engine catching fire. We wouldn't know anything about this one unless a passenger had told us.

Is the runway long enough? Well the very fact that the incident at Samui resulted in the plane taxi-ing back to the stand safely would indicate that it is. The runway is actually longer than the one at London City Airport which handles double the passengers at USM and has about 68,000 flight movements yearly.

So yes, a plane crash, a 'bump' into a wall, and a RTO all within a couple of years does sound statistically high for such a small aiport. Maybe that is cause for concen. On the other hand, it could be said that the pilot rejected the take off because safety is now seen as a higher priority?

Either way, I doubt we are going to find out. And I am not going to lose sleep over it. The only time I worry about using USM is when it is pi##ing it down with rain and there are strong winds, which is what I do at most airports anyway under similar conditions.

[spindle]

As starcandle says ..

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest

And I do find it interesting. I am not worried as such, but it does seem that USM has had its' fair share of incidents/accidents/events recently.

Aviation Herald documents about a dozen Rejected Take Offs (RTO) worldwide during Novemer 2011. Is this the total number that actually happened? I have no idea. Is there a public record? I suspect not. I very much doubt that a RTO at Heathrow would hit the headlines unless it was of major newsworthy interest like an engine catching fire. We wouldn't know anything about this one unless a passenger had told us.

Is the runway long enough? Well the very fact that the incident at Samui resulted in the plane taxi-ing back to the stand safely would indicate that it is. The runway is actually longer than the one at London City Airport which handles double the passengers at USM and has about 68,000 flight movements yearly.

So yes, a plane crash, a 'bump' into a wall, and a RTO all within a couple of years does sound statistically high for such a small aiport. Maybe that is cause for concen. On the other hand, it could be said that the pilot rejected the take off because safety is now seen as a higher priority?

Either way, I doubt we are going to find out. And I am not going to lose sleep over it. The only time I worry about using USM is when it is pi##ing it down with rain and there are strong winds, which is what I do at most airports anyway under similar conditions.

Well said...

[marstons]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

The plane was half empty.

in which case the ATR must have been nearly empty to take on a half a load of an air bus. Presumably your friend has left and you called him to check if the air bus was half empty???

once a plane has started to lift as your post sugggests its past the point of no return, the pilot has called rotatae to lift so its a case of take off do circuit and return. complete B/S from start to finish IMHO. prone to exageration beyond beleif.

[limbos]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

in my opinion the pilot took the correct action.

My post was just a topic that I thought people would find of interest, I'm in no way pointing a finger at any one, especially as I was not on the flight and I do not know the

precise reason for the take off abort. One thing is certain, the pilot would not have taken the action had he not thought it was absolutely nessesary.

I did notice last night that planes were still coming in at half past midnight.

It seems we agree on the second part of my post, what about the questions raised in my first part of my initial reply, can you answer them?

IMHO your thread title is rather sensational and how much I despise BKK Airways pricing policy, your thread title sounds as if you got an ax to grind with them.

Limbos I'm quite suprised with you, as you have posted so many posts I would have thought that maybe you had heard or read via Thaivisa that,

on the 17th of this month a plane ended up with it's nose stuck in the wall at Samui airport, and not to long ago another plane ended up crashing into the old watch tower, sadly killing the pilot.

Now if you want to consider the saftey factor and ask questions relating to figures I do not have them, however if you take international airports , such as Schipol or heathrow, how many accidents have you heard of in the same time period as the Koh Samui time period ?, also take into consideration the fact that samui maybe takes 18 flights a day and other international airports take several hundred, then ask yourself, the questions your asking me.

And as it happens I do not have an axe to grind with anyone.

Allright,

Schiphol,

October 92, ElAl cargo flight crashed into Bijlmer, residential area, 43 killed

April 94, KLM flight, 3 killed

October 05, fire in detention center, 11 killed

early 2009, Turkish plane crashes, 9 killed.

October 2010, a Corendon Airlines Boeing 737-400 landed in bad weather on the short (2014 metre) Oostbaan (04/22) and the plane overshot the runway resulting in the nosewheel landing in the mud at the end of the runway. According to the airline, this runway should not have been used in heavy rain

Heathrow;

• On 5 November 1997, a Virgin Atlantic Airbus A340-300, G-VSKY, made an emergency landing following an undercarriage malfunction. Part of the undercarriage collapsed on landing, and both aircraft and runway were damaged. Recommendations made as a result of the accident included one that aircraft cabin door simulators should more accurately reproduce operating characteristics in an emergency, and another that cockpit voice recorders should have a two-hour duration in aircraft registered before April 1998.
  
• On 17 January 2008, a British Airways Boeing 777-236ER, G-YMMM, operating flight BA038 from Beijing, crash-landed at Heathrow. The aircraft landed on grass short of the south runway, then slid to the edge of the runway and stopped on the threshold, leading to eighteen minor injuries. The aircraft was later found to have suffered loss of thrust caused by fuel icing
  

Edited January 2, 2012 by limbos

[insertmembernamehere]

Why is this called, "Another Near Miss"?

Assuming there was any incident at all, and not just hear-say, what did the plane miss?

From Wikipwedia "A near miss is an unplanned event that did not result in injury, illness, or damage – but had the potential to do so."

I would say that descibes what happened. Assuming that the aborted take off WAS unplanned and not just practice!

They are talking in this article about, "...a miss that was nonetheless very near." Not an rejected/aborted take-off. Maybe you need to look up the word, "miss."

I was just pointing out that there was no "miss" in this incident.

It's funny, when I have been on an aircraft and it is announced that we have to get off the plane because of some mechanical problem, most people grouse about it. I think, "Good thing they caught whatever it was before we were in the air...."

[skippybangkok]

I think ur friend is a drama queen. If close to the nose wheel lifting off, that's Vr......... Means he has long passed V1 and can't stop anymore without crashing.

Have been on a Melbourne bound aborted take off close to V1, tire burst and all from braking..... Scary yes.

But nose just lifting off, that's just like the 20 ft shark that got away from the fishing line

[starcandle]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

The plane was half empty.

in which case the ATR must have been nearly empty to take on a half a load of an air bus. Presumably your friend has left and you called him to check if the air bus was half empty???

once a plane has started to lift as your post sugggests its past the point of no return, the pilot has called rotatae to lift so its a case of take off do circuit and return. complete B/S from start to finish IMHO. prone to exageration beyond beleif.

Had you read my post properly, you would have read that he NEVER got on the ATR, he went into Bangrak on the beer and has decided not to bother with his trip to BKK

[insertmembernamehere]

Had you read my post properly, you would have read that he NEVER got on the ATR, he went into Bangrak on the beer and has decided not to bother with his trip to BKK

This is slightly off-topic, but who would book a flight and then not take it? I would be surprised if Bangkok Airways refunded his money for something as trivial as a mechanical problem on an aircraft and being assigned to go on the next flight. The plane taxis on the runway, then does not take off and your friend runs to get drunk, giving up his entire holiday plans? Kind of girly-manish if you ask me. Or he made the whole thing up.