Corruption Is Just A Part Of Thai Society

[webfact]

Corruption is just a part of society

Pravit Rojanaphruk

There are people who believe that if Thailand could just stop corrupt politicians from ever getting elected, then the Kingdom would once and for all be free of graft. Few, however, understand that graft, corruption and bribery, at least in its legal, subtle and insidious forms, is very much part of Thai culture and society.

Take, for example, the daily requests and prayers offered at Hindu and Buddhist altars, to animistic deities and the statue of King Rama V. They always come with a promise of an offering if the wishes are "granted" and the "repayment" for such supernatural favours range from flowers, wooden elephants, statuettes of dancers to running around stark naked, depending on how big the wish is.

Besides, these offerings are not just the norm among the less-educated Thais. Many "well-educated" people also make such offerings in exchange for good grades, enrolment at prestigious colleges or promotions at work.

Then there's the widespread practice of acquiring and wearing Buddhist amulets in the belief they can make the wearer popular, rich, sexually attractive or even strong enough to withstand the impact of bullets. Whether these offerings are reliable or not, the issue is that for many who believe in them, they are also a form of bribery.

Another aspect of subtle corruption is favouritism within the old boys' network. When your old school chum calls you up asking for a favour that might be seen by some as nepotism, it's often very difficult to say no.

Recently, a friend - known for his honesty and spirituality - thought nothing of sending me two Buddhist philosophy books with the note: "If you think the books are of interest or of some value, perhaps you would be so kind as to review them." I'm afraid I was not a very "good" friend because I have not written reviews about them yet.

People in power can help friends of friends or even their favourite underlings by using their influence or abusing their professional position. And it is still quite common to be soft when old friends make such requests.

The idea of graft and corruption came to Thailand with Chinese immigrants, who brought with them the practice of "tea money", which has since taken root in the country. During times past, kingdoms under the sphere of influence such as the realm of Pattani also used to offer tributes to sovereigns in Bangkok, and these offerings took the form of small silver and gold trees among other things.

Today, the practice of giving highly priced "gifts" or "donations" to people with power and influence at the top of social and political echelons continues without question.

Perhaps these offerings may not be considered "legal" in other parts of the world, but they are actually very much a part of Thai society and the cultural environment. Not paying attention to these subtle aspects of bribery and yet moaning about corruption is like saying it's okay to drink beer but not whisky.

Maybe corrupt politicians are more like the rest of us than we would like to admit. The idea of corruption does not come from Mars, it is very much part of an ordinary "legal" aspect of Thai society.

-- The Nation 2012-01-11

[clockman]

that hits the nail on the head, all true

[MunterHunter]

Oh, that totaly makes it ok then...

So if i break the law, just offer a budda amulet to the police and all is forgiven right?

Or if i comit abuse of power, tax evasion, murder, graft, physical abuse or acts of terrorism, it can all be forgiven if i just give the big man in charge a small ornate golden tree?

Fantastic! Where is my shotgun...

[EvilDrSomkid]

Comparing prayer and offerings to bribery?

Is this guy really blaming the Chinese immigrants for bring corruption? Here we go again.

Anything bad in Thailand has been brought by foreigners. Thai people are virtuous and pure.

What a bunch of drivel.

[MichaelJohn]

So now we're trying to justify corruption - I wonder how much was paid for the article to be written?

[hanuman2543]

"Few, however, understand that graft, corruption and bribery, at least in its legal, subtle and insidious forms, is very much part of Thai culture and society."

Couldn't agree more. Bun Khun, Krieng Jai and all that other BS of "Thainess" are only excuses to give corruption, nepotism, bribes and inability a nicer name. Foreigners do not understand "Thainess". Yes we do, but we call it different.

[DocN]

Aaaaaaah...the ever so popular excuse: it is like that, because it always was like that, it is part of our culture...

Let me put it very....very simple: TIME FOR A CHANGE!

[metisdead]

Removed a post that claimed another member was paid to post. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights.

[Gillespie]

"The idea of graft and corruption came to Thailand with Chinese immigrants..."

That's right, and before that, Siam was some sort of pre-lapsarian Eden, where everyone was good and kind and pure and honest and smiley. Like a TAT brochure, in fact.

[DocN]

"The idea of graft and corruption came to Thailand with Chinese immigrants..."

That's right, and before that, Siam was some sort of pre-lapsarian Eden, where everyone was good and kind and pure and honest and smiley. Like a TAT brochure, in fact.

Didn't you just describe modern Thailand?

[Card]

_{"Whether these offerings are reliable or not, the issue is that for many who believe in them, they are also a form of bribery."}

_{What you mean you think there may be some truth in it?}

[ralphlsasser]

That's the Thai way. Always blame someone else for their faults. Very typical.

[hellodolly]

Well we as foreigners can look at it at say it is wrong but we were raised with different ethics and we chose to leave those environs to come to different ones. If we disagree with them that is are privilege but it would do us well to try to understand them, a bit better than we do.

Yes it is a part of the culture. Don't pay what a job is worth and let them make it up another way is a big part of the government and it's various departments. That is not to say that there is not a lot of people who do it way out of proportion to the rest of the recipients of these monies and other favors.

Tax all property put a tax on all things bought and pay fair wages and we will slowly see a lot of the corruption disappear. It will be like all other countries that have set on the course to eradicate it, still there but in a much smaller degree.

I liked the part about

"Besides, these offerings are not just the norm among the less-educated Thais. Many "well-educated" people also make such offerings in exchange for good grades, enrolment at prestigious colleges or promotions at work."

Puts me in mind of a few years ago when Thaksin came to Chiang Mai to make a whirl wind visit to 99 temples to improve his luck.

(I guess it worked he only got 2 years jail time and got to keep half his money)

Edited January 11, 2012 by hellodolly

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. The same post was posted using an unusual font as well, please use default forum font when posting. Using unusual fonts when posting is also a form of bad netiquette:

1. Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be difficult to read.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/254949-forum-netiquette/

[ryladie99]

I was watching the Chinese Three kingdoms ( 95 episodes ) and tried to understand why people are corrupted. Believe me corruption spreads around the World not only in Thailand. The World of citizens are good in nature but few are crooks. These crook people will last long. They live well and never be afraid of doing evil thing. The corruption seems to go on forever but at the end the person who commits a crime will pay dearly. If not their family members will pick up the prices. According to the Law of Universe someone up there is watching... no one escapes his or her crime. My take and opinion.

[Hyponeros]

What this shameless hypocrite who wants to call himself a journalist fails to point out is that bribery and corruption is used to allow an activity or action that is illegal and, in most cases, that will benefit only few people at the cost of a wast majority!

This has nothing to do with Thainess or culture but with mafia or mafia like activities!

It is a shame that this article was even published!

[khaowong1]

that hits the nail on the head, all true

Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu

[anterian]

The first time you give a kid a sweet to be quiet, rather than a smack, you introduce to that child the concept of corruption.

[PoodMaiDai]

It is very much part of their culture, and that is exactly why they will never get ahead on the world stage. Thailand will always struggle for this very reason, just the same as other nations who are in the same boat.

[Kaysom]

A good article. They should give it out at the immigration desk as you arrive. Everywhere. Just change the nations name and make a few appropriate tweaks here and there, so as not to offend certain nations religious sensibilities.

[gohmer]

What frick'n planet does this writer live on. The type of corruption that is bad is the kind that undermines society by taking billions upon billions out of the normal economy and from the tax payer's who funded it and puts it in the pockets of corrupt officials like on hospital and school construction projects and highway projects. Who cares about an amulet that someone wears. I did some research on this topic last year using my financial and economics background. The research I found had statistics that mostly were from China. Since this article talks about the presumed source of corruption being from Thailand, patronize me and give the numbers some benefit of the doubt. At a cost of approximately 3-5% drain on total annual GDP, that is enough money to pay for a university degree in computer science to every single person in Thailand below the age of 18. This research, and my corresponding spreadsheet, showed that for the next 18 years, every underage Thai living now would have a free BS in Computer Science paid for by just the reduction in GDP caused directly by corruption.

No civil society thinks corruption is acceptable just because it is widely adopted by society. To say that corruption is just a friendly part of Thai society is the same as saying that it is acceptable for people to be thieves, liars, criminals, have low morals, and cheat just because it is part of the culture. No, it is a sick part of Thai culture just like a tumor or cancerous growth the eats away at a person's health, so does it eat away at this countries health.

[RaoulDuke]

Everything is relative. The size and scope of corruption in the USA probably outweighs any other country on Earth. Thailand's corruption leads to tiny bribes to police officers and officials. USA's corruption leads to international wars and openly stealing money from the poor to give to the rich. Anyone who has even the foggiest idea what a lobbyist is or how influential they are can attest to how widespread corruption is, especially in Washington DC. Even the Supreme Court is openly on the take (how else do you explain the millions of dollars paid to Justice Clarence Thomas's wife by a lobbyist group, much less their 'Citizens United' decision which unleashed the flood gates of corrupt corporate money flowing to candidates, putting the power of elections into the hands of big business and out of reach of the poor voter).

I am just tired of all the bashing the ethnocentric westerners love to do of those in other places. The US/UK/Franco/Spanish colonialists have done more damage and caused more corruption in the last few centuries than any country in Asia could ever even fantasize about, not to mention how they basically provided the world with a model on how to be corrupt. At least in Thailand, the average westerner can easily afford to pay the bribes and deal with the corruption. In the USA, the corrupt people who run the country will not even give you the time of day if you are not a billionaire.

Edited January 11, 2012 by RaoulDuke

[SPG]

The first time you give a kid a sweet to be quiet, rather than a smack, you introduce to that child the concept of corruption.

a clip round the ear hole is better for the teeth

[xthAi76s]

While I somewhat enjoy reading these articles, I most often feel like they are very shallow. They often just barely graze a very complex topic with some catchy concept placed at the end that we are supposed to ponder. I wish someone would actually write (more thoroughly) about these topics. I suppose, I should look to authors of books and not news. The news here is very often weak.

[Moruya]

Corruption is not just a part of Thai society - it is the main part.

Tell me something you can't get done quicker or cheaper by paying?

The developments with ASEAN will be interesting - along with the impact of FCPA with the deals Yingluck is about to strike with the US

[xthAi76s]

Everything is relative. The size and scope of corruption in the USA probably outweighs any other country on Earth. Thailand's corruption leads to tiny bribes to police officers and officials. USA's corruption leads to international wars and openly stealing money from the poor to give to the rich. Anyone who has even the foggiest idea what a lobbyist is or how influential they are can attest to how widespread corruption is, especially in Washington DC. Even the Supreme Court is openly on the take (how else do you explain the millions of dollars paid to Justice Clarence Thomas's wife by a lobbyist group, much less their 'Citizens United' decision which unleashed the flood gates of corrupt corporate money flowing to candidates, putting the power of elections into the hands of big business and out of reach of the poor voter).

I am just tired of all the bashing the ethnocentric westerners love to do of those in other places. The US/UK/Franco/Spanish colonialists have done more damage and caused more corruption in the last few centuries than any country in Asia could ever even fantasize about, not to mention how they basically provided the world with a model on how to be corrupt. At least in Thailand, the average westerner can easily afford to pay the bribes and deal with the corruption. In the USA, the corrupt people who run the country will not even give you the time of day if you are not a billionaire.

Pretty big difference between lobbying and general corruption

http://ftp.iza.org/dp2313.pdf

Couple of points made in this paper (linked to above)

1. Lobbying is generally thought to be more effective than corruption with respect to bringing about policy change

2. Corruption is often aimed at bureaucracy as a means to undermine law where lobbying is less likely to attempt to undermine law as it seeks to affect policy directly.

3. Institutions where there are clear rules and where people's careers are advanced primarily on merit are much less susceptible to corruption.

To your overall point, unfortunately, arguing as to which system is better is indeed a complex matter. It's one that an informed person could likely write a lengthy book about, but, for me, what it comes down to is how I am affected. Personally, I fare better in a system that is at least somewhat predictable (US), stable and cannot be so easily bought as law cannot be so easily undermined with bribery/corruption. One of the reasons the US has flourished is because our laws are not easily bought. So, yes, I too don't like ethnocentrism, but sometimes you gotta 'call it like it is'. Corruption is a serious problem in Thailand and likely playing an enormous role in holding the country back from achieving more rapid improvement ... The same cannot be said for most rich countries.

Edited January 11, 2012 by ThailandMan

[gohmer]

Everything is relative. The size and scope of corruption in the USA probably outweighs any other country on Earth. Thailand's corruption leads to tiny bribes to police officers and officials. USA's corruption leads to international wars and openly stealing money from the poor to give to the rich. Anyone who has even the foggiest idea what a lobbyist is or how influential they are can attest to how widespread corruption is, especially in Washington DC. Even the Supreme Court is openly on the take (how else do you explain the millions of dollars paid to Justice Clarence Thomas's wife by a lobbyist group, much less their 'Citizens United' decision which unleashed the flood gates of corrupt corporate money flowing to candidates, putting the power of elections into the hands of big business and out of reach of the poor voter).

I am just tired of all the bashing the ethnocentric westerners love to do of those in other places. The US/UK/Franco/Spanish colonialists have done more damage and caused more corruption in the last few centuries than any country in Asia could ever even fantasize about, not to mention how they basically provided the world with a model on how to be corrupt. At least in Thailand, the average westerner can easily afford to pay the bribes and deal with the corruption. In the USA, the corrupt people who run the country will not even give you the time of day if you are not a billionaire.

I don't know if you are American or not, but if you are, you are truly a s.t.u-p.i.d American, or at least don't have a clue what you are talking about, if you are European or Asian, than ignore this comment as none of you have a clue about America except for what you see in movies. First, to give you concrete examples, we just had last month the Governor of Illinois (Rod Blagojevich) who was convicted of "conspiracy" to commit mail fraud (meaning he didn't do it, he just planned to do it), lying to the FBI, and "attempts" to get endorsements, "attempts to bribe". He didn't take money, he only offered money for endorsements. These endorsements turned him down. There was never any benefit from them. He was impeached from office, baned from politics for life and sentenced to 14 years in prison. Name one European country that deals with corrupt government officials the same way, and also compare that to the 2 years Thaksin got for crimes that dwarf that of Blagojevich's, or, Chirac in France getting a two-year suspended sentence for diverting public funds.

Does America have corruption, absolutely; however, our culture hates it so much that we have prosecutors, investigative reporters, watch-dog groups, and business and political rivals that obsess over catching their rivals in an unethical act. Our society is so open that reporters win pulitzer prices for finding dirt on corrupt business and political leaders. Political rivals win campaigns off of it. Professors fill their classes with lectures on it. Give me a break. There's no country in the world had hard on business and political leaders than the US. Consider the 150 year sentence and a $17.179 billion fine that Bernard Madoff received 3 years ago, and he was one of the most elite and politically connected guys in America. If you want to say America is corrupt, back your c.r.a.p. up with some facts.

And, all of you who are talking about the police bribes, that amount of corruption is less than a sarang compared to the big Thai companies, the military, the high up elected officials take on construction projects, military contracts, foriegn business setting up major installations. If you are only quoting about the street bribes as the corruption, you have not a frick'n clue. Go back to your beer and bar girl.

Edited January 11, 2012 by gohmer

[xthAi76s]

Everything is relative. The size and scope of corruption in the USA probably outweighs any other country on Earth. Thailand's corruption leads to tiny bribes to police officers and officials. USA's corruption leads to international wars and openly stealing money from the poor to give to the rich. Anyone who has even the foggiest idea what a lobbyist is or how influential they are can attest to how widespread corruption is, especially in Washington DC. Even the Supreme Court is openly on the take (how else do you explain the millions of dollars paid to Justice Clarence Thomas's wife by a lobbyist group, much less their 'Citizens United' decision which unleashed the flood gates of corrupt corporate money flowing to candidates, putting the power of elections into the hands of big business and out of reach of the poor voter).

I am just tired of all the bashing the ethnocentric westerners love to do of those in other places. The US/UK/Franco/Spanish colonialists have done more damage and caused more corruption in the last few centuries than any country in Asia could ever even fantasize about, not to mention how they basically provided the world with a model on how to be corrupt. At least in Thailand, the average westerner can easily afford to pay the bribes and deal with the corruption. In the USA, the corrupt people who run the country will not even give you the time of day if you are not a billionaire.

I don't know if you are American or not, but if you are, you are truly a s.t.u-p.i.d American, or at least don't have a clue what you are talking about, if you are European or Asian, than ignore this comment as none of you have a clue about America except for what you see in movies. First, to give you concrete examples, we just had last month the Governor of Illinois (Rod Blagojevich) who was convicted of "conspiracy" to commit mail fraud (meaning he didn't do it, he just planned to do it), lying to the FBI, and "attempts" to get endorsements, "attempts to bribe". He didn't take money, he only offered money for endorsements. These endorsements turned him down. There was never any benefit from them. He was impeached from office, baned from politics for life and sentenced to 14 years in prison. Name one European country that deals with corrupt government officials the same way, and also compare that to the 2 years Thaksin got for crimes that dwarf that of Blagojevich's, or, Chirac in France getting a two-year suspended sentence for diverting public funds.

Does America have corruption, absolutely; however, our culture hates it so much that we have prosecutors, investigative reporters, watch-dog groups, and business and political rivals that obsess over catching their rivals in an unethical act. Our society is so open that reporters win pulitzer prices for finding dirt on corrupt business and political leaders. Political rivals win campaigns off of it. Professors fill their classes with lectures on it. Give me a break. There's no country in the world had hard on business and political leaders than the US. Consider the 150 year sentence and a $17.179 billion fine that Bernard Madoff received 3 years ago, and he was one of the most elite and politically connected guys in America. If you want to say America is corrupt, back your c.r.a.p. up with some facts.

And, all of you who are talking about the police bribes, that amount of corruption is less than a sarang compared to the big Thai companies, the military, the high up elected officials take on construction projects, military contracts, foriegn business setting up major installations. If you are only quoting about the street bribes as the corruption, you have not a frick'n clue. Go back to your beer and bar girl.

[XAMPI]

And, all of you who are talking about the police bribes, that amount of corruption is less than a sarang compared to the big Thai companies, the military, the high up elected officials take on construction projects, military contracts, foriegn business setting up major installations. If you are only quoting about the street bribes as the corruption, you have not a frick'n clue. Go back to your beer and bar girl.

sort of true but the police are much more involved then just collecting tea money, but unlike in America the media here is censored, or self censored, including this forum, so most people aren't aware of what goes on

[anterian]

The first time you give a kid a sweet to be quiet, rather than a smack, you introduce to that child the concept of corruption.

a clip round the ear hole is better for the teeth

A double whammy corrupt the mind and also the teeth