Surin: Isaan...?

[zzaa09]

Some still, jokingly, consider Surin Province to be Thai by default, less affiliating itself with the rather undescriptive and contemporarily invented region of Isaan - which some don't consider Thai in it's own right. Semantics.

The friendly debate and questions still remain today. Is Surin Isaan?

Modern political and geo-political stances dull any challenges that might be worthy, incorporated into the modern Thai state [another mysterious subject to be critically examined - Thai]

Nearly every local I know and associate with, have never considered Surin to be Isaan. It's Khmer, as we know. Linguistic manner, customs, culture, cuisine, etc.

The faux Thai integration has made it's inroads through a strong, broad, and subliminal nationalistic submission.....yet, the old school remains in place.

On could even ask what is Isaan? A clever geo-political ruse of the late Chulalongkorn era to merge an already culturally independent entity into the ever-expanding Kingdom. A sort of latter-day colonialism.

Surin. Not Isaan.

Isaan. Not Thai/Tai [whatever that is]

[Thaddeus]

Bulilam.

Same same.

[zzaa09]

Bulilam.

Same same.

Yes...have to be in agreement with you.

Yet, the flavour isn't as strong as their southern neighbor.

[cardholder]

Bulilam.

Same same.

As you should know, residents of the province pronounce their "R's".

Maybe getting their tongues round their "R's" (and also the word Khmer) may also betray their real past.

When repeating my name in a Pattaya bar I was able to tell which girls hailed from Buriram.

I was cleverly able to avoid crapping on my own doorstep.

[zzaa09]

And less we forget, the overwhelming influence of Khmer we take for granted as Thai.

Cultural and historic revisionist have a field day with this. Pro or con.

[Fookhaht]

And less we forget, the overwhelming influence of Khmer we take for granted as Thai.

Cultural and historic revisionist have a field day with this. Pro or con.

Living in Isaan, surrounded by Khmer temple ruins in every province, my university students do not know that this used to be Khmer country. They just think they're old Thai temple ruins. Where are they getting this xenophobic rubbish?

[Thaddeus]

Bulilam.

Same same.

As you should know, residents of the province pronounce their "R's".

Khmen speakers yes, Laos speakers no.

And I am surrounded by Laos speakers.

[cardholder]

Bulilam.

Same same.

As you should know, residents of the province pronounce their "R's".

Khmen speakers yes, Laos speakers no.

And I am surrounded by Laos speakers.

Thad - you are usually surrounded by drunken expats

[Thaddeus]

Bulilam.

Same same.

As you should know, residents of the province pronounce their "R's".

Khmen speakers yes, Laos speakers no.

And I am surrounded by Laos speakers.

Thad - you are usually surrounded by drunken expats

Not 24/7 my friend.

[puchooay]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

[zzaa09]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

Well done, Puchooay!!

[zzaa09]

And less we forget, the overwhelming influence of Khmer we take for granted as Thai.

Cultural and historic revisionist have a field day with this. Pro or con.

Living in Isaan, surrounded by Khmer temple ruins in every province, my university students do not know that this used to be Khmer country. They just think they're old Thai temple ruins. Where are they getting this xenophobic rubbish?

Probably not conscious xenophobic behaviour on your student's part, nor is such zealotry portrayed by most.

Like everywhere, populations tend to see things culturally-centric.

In the case of Thais, it not their nature [nor are they taught or encouraged] to challenge or question what has deemed as convention. These ideals, within a educational infrastructure, have been a bone of contention in some circles - independent and critical thought.

[barrybankruad]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

You beat me to it. This is of course why the famous elephant 'round up' is held in Surin.

[inzman]

Surin is in Issan, just a matter of semantics.

[zzaa09]

Surin is in Issan, just a matter of semantics.

Not semantics, but historical discretion.

One has to consider how and why the geo-political region of Isaan came to be.

Over the last few generations the convention of what Isaan is has been set in stone in acceptance without questions and critique.

[zzaa09]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

Out of historical curiosity, I have to wonder if the Guay were the "experts" assigned to the Royals under the Mongkut and Chulalongkorn eras where official [and periodic] elephant herdings/capturings were common from the wilds of old Siam.

Just a thought.

[BookMan]

A very interesting topic. I profess ignorance of the Surin area and its Khmer history. Until reading this topic I hadn't really thought about it.

I asked my GF, originally from Surin, if she considers herself from Issan or otherwise. Also if she acknowledges any Khmer affiliations. She considers herself and Surin as part of Issan and her mother and father who were also born there, likewise. The discussion of Khmer history between the two of us might have been lost in translation just a little.

I'll be looking to expand my knowledge of the history of the area a bit now. Always plenty to learn in Thailand!

[JBL]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

In my wife's home town of Khukhan ((Sisaket) Khmer, Lao, Guay & Thai are spoken depending on who is around, sadly Guay is fading out & certainly with the next generation more languages will follow as Media has an increasing stronghold on centralizing language, I for one love the ease of pronouncing Khmer words but we really only speak it when @ home in the village

[zzaa09]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

In my wife's home town of Khukhan ((Sisaket) Khmer, Lao, Guay & Thai are spoken depending on who is around, sadly Guay is fading out & certainly with the next generation more languages will follow as Media has an increasing stronghold on centralizing language, I for one love the ease of pronouncing Khmer words but we really only speak it when @ home in the village

I'm acquainted with a cynical old geezer [Farang] in Prasat who has suggested for years that this centralisation [for a better term] and homogeny of "Thai" throughout numerous ethnic regions is nothing more than contemporay neo-colonialism.

His theories and ideas might come across as a little goofy, yet his pointed conclusions have validity. As we all know, the broader fashion of a Thai/Tai culture is not a dominate one.....today, the greater integration of "all things Thai" through social engineering, the education system, countrywide media, etc has molded a supposedly national theme.

I, too, have witnessed a slow weaning of this minority culture [Thai] towards the last couple of generations. Today, in Surin we only speak Khamen Saren within smaller circles of family, friends, and neighbors. The kids, of course, understand the "other" language, but don't use it to interact with their peers. Not even in the market places - where 97% of the population understands Khmer, yet interact in Thai.

[Thighlander]

My lady friend from Surin speaks Khmer with her son, and I've heard her speak Suay with a lady who I am pretty sure was from Ubon.

[zzaa09]

My lady friend from Surin speaks Khmer with her son, and I've heard her speak Suay with a lady who I am pretty sure was from Ubon.

One will find Suay populations in Ubon as well....

[Fookhaht]

Bit of an oversight here as the first emporer and settlers in the area were actually Guay.(Gui) Now pronounced, by "Thais", as Suay.(Sui) Villages speaking this language can still be found in both Surin and Buriram.

The main place where you will hear this language being spoken is in the elephant villages between Ta Toom in Surin and Satuk in Buriram. The Guay people are the original elephant herders.

Other areas of Surin where Guay is still spoken are Sangka and Lamduan. In Buriram I have been to villages as far afield as Prackonchai, Ban Dan, Ban Bua and very surprisingly Lamplaimart where the langauge is spoken as a mother tongue although it is sadly a dying language.

In my wife's home town of Khukhan ((Sisaket) Khmer, Lao, Guay & Thai are spoken depending on who is around, sadly Guay is fading out...

Your "Guay" and "Suay" is spelled/pronounced "Kui" just over the border in Cambodia. Quite a number of thriving Kui villages are there and the language is far from dying out. Cheer up.

The Cambodian national government is not quite so forceful in trying to merge these indigenous cultures into the national "accepted" culture as is done here. Certainly, the language may die out here, but far from it just over the border.

[zzaa09]

Your "Guay" and "Suay" is spelled/pronounced "Kui" just over the border in Cambodia. Quite a number of thriving Kui villages are there and the language is far from dying out. Cheer up.

The Cambodian national government is not quite so forceful in trying to merge these indigenous cultures into the national "accepted" culture as is done here. Certainly, the language may die out here, but far from it just over the border.

Yep. There is a clear difference as to how the respective government/establishment views their ethnic minorities.

One needn't be too historically observant and khnowledgeable to understand how the Thai authorities have forcibly instilled a "Thainess" homogeny throughout the numerous ethnicities [large or small] that basically today make up a good portion of the overall population. And again, how contemporary Thai historiography has treated immigrants from these related cultures.

[kerryk]

Eat rice

Gin cow. Thai

Hope by. Khmer

Ja doy. Guay

Edited January 25, 2012 by kerryk

[holden05]

Lamduan in Buriram?or Surin?

[zzaa09]

Lamduan in Buriram?or Surin?

Are you referring to Amphoe Lamduan?

A provinicial district of south-central Surin.