Speak Wife My Wife

[samran]

กิ๊ก I guess would be what he has.

Doesn't everyone know about his leanings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lets keep it on topic people...Mr Big's personal life isn't the topic of conversation here!

[p_brownstone]

even showing your 'class' perhaps, Mr. Browstone? 

From where, in any of my Posts, do you extrapolate that little gem?

I prefer to speak polite Thai and advocate that others do so too, rather than encourage them in their belief that using casual language will make them “one of the Boys” and not the Farang they are and always will be?

From that you clumsily imply that I am an elitist?

I suggest that as a Moderator of this site you try to lead by example and refrain from making snide and unfounded comments about other Members.

That I choose not to respond in kind you may take as rather more compelling evidence to support your theory as to my “class” if you so wish

To get back on topic.

I think the best word to use is 'faen' if you want to find the middle ground. Panraya does sound stuck-up and high brow, and 'mia' sounds a bit too 'baan nawk' to me.

“Faen” is certainly not middle ground between "Paraya” and “Mia”, the word is actually a Thai import derived from the English word “Fan” and implies only a close connection such as “best girl” or at most “lover” . There is no assumption of a formal or legal marriage.

Patrick

Edited December 5, 2005 by p_brownstone

[RamdomChances]

even showing your 'class' perhaps, Mr. Browstone? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From where, in any of my Posts, do you extrapolate that little gem?

I prefer to speak polite Thai and advocate that others do so too, rather than encourage them in their belief that using casual language will make them “one of the Boys” and not the Farang they are and always will be?

From that you clumsily imply that I am an elitist?

I suggest that as a Moderator of this site you try to lead by example and refrain from making snide and unfounded comments about other Members.

That I choose not to respond in kind you may take as rather more compelling evidence to support your theory as to my “class” if you so wish

To get back on topic.

I think the best word to use is 'faen' if you want to find the middle ground. Panraya does sound stuck-up and high brow, and 'mia' sounds a bit too 'baan nawk' to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

“Faen” is certainly not middle ground between "Paraya” and “Mia”, the word is actually a Thai import derived from the English word “Fan” and implies only a close connection such as “best girl” or at most “lover” . There is no assumption of a formal or legal marriage.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Fean" I would say the closest that it would relate in English would be "partner" as it's sexless and does not nesseseraly donate a legal arangment. So yea pretty much middle ground to me.

Fean, Mia, Paraya, I use them all at sometime or an other just depends on the situattion and who you are talking to. Lifing in a farming community in "Ban Nawk"and spending time sitting around drinking with my farming mates I find that Paraya is a bit formal...each to their own realy. I dont think theres a definate right or wrong answer.

Oh mabye Meadish was trying to say that you had a bit of "class" why so defensive

[meadish_sweetball]

The remark was meant as a joke, Mr. Brownstone. I am sorry if it hurt your feelings.

There is no assumption of a formal or legal marriage.

True, but many Thai people still use it to refer to their wives regardless of that fact.

The only situation where I would use "'phanrayaa" is in a formal setting such as dealing with Immigration or the likes - for which it is the proper, official word to use. Using 'phanrayaa' with normal people is unneccessarily highbrow IMO. When you refer to another person's wife you should think twice about what to use though.

BTW, 'mia' is not quite on par with 'kuu' and 'meung'. 'Mia' is not vulgar per se, it is just the original Thai word for wife, and not as formal/polite as 'phanrayaa' which is a foreign import.

From that you clumsily imply that I am an elitist?

Your reply to bannork made me make that assumption, clumsily or not. If you are out to ruffle feathers, you really should be prepared to have your own ruffled a bit as well.

[p_brownstone]

OK chaps – sorry, well ruffled feathers patted back into place!

The way one speaks is obviously a matter of personal choice, but it’s my little “tick” that I am acutely aware of what I say and how I say it because it reflects not just on me but on how and from whom I learnt Thai - and that the people I speak with will judge and categorize me based on that.

It’s a habit I have fallen into and although to some it may sound overly formal or even pretentious on occasion there are some words that I simply never use, regardless of the person I am speaking with. As an example, a few minutes ago the Postman came with a registered letter addressed to my wife, he’s a new man on this route and was a little disconcerted to see me when I trotted down to the gate to sign for it and the short conversation went something like:

Postman: “Jotmai bpen kong Khun ******* na krap”

Me: Mai bpen rai krap, Khun ******* keu paraya kong pom na krap”

Even in that situation I would be almost physically unable to use the word “mia” let alone “goo”, it’s simply the way and the atmosphere in which I learnt to speak the language.

Nor would I claim that I don’t mix in a society where these words are never used, quite “Hi-so” Thai friends with whom I have played Golf etc. over the last 20 years or more will often use them when chatting together after a game, and despite the fact that I take a very active part in these conversations I never use the terms then either, I simply feel that it is inappropriate for me as a Farang to do so.

Maybe I need a doctor!

Patrick

[bannork]

MS, I wonder if the p in p-brownstone stands for พี่ ?

you're spot on about kuu and meung being in a different category to mia, regarding faen, my brother-in-law uses it in reference to his wife and they've lived together for over 30 years.

Perhaps Siamese Kitty could add her 3 bahts worth, incidentally what's happened to the esteemed Mr Yoot these days?

[Darkling]

I truly cringe when I hear Farang trying to show off their Thai by using words like “Goo” , “Meung” and so on - oh, and yes “Mia” and “Pua” - to name but a few.

Don't try to copy “villagers” or “the man in the street” when you speak Thai.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Referring to your wife as panrayaa in normal conversation, give me a break.

Well as Yoda might say, cringe shall you do. Some of us dinosaurs prefer hanging out with chao baan. Are "villagers" so alien to you that you need put the term into quotations. &lt;deleted&gt;?

For some of us who lived amongst that large anonymous majority of rural Thais that most posters on this board only rarely interact with unless they have to ask for directions, using terms such as pua, mia or faen seems quite natural. I also only kin and never, and I mean never, thaan ahaan. And unless I have to spend time in the city, I usually address just about everyone as either phii or nong or lung or paa and rarely used pronouns such as khun.

I am more likely to cringe hearing a Farang speaking the Bangkok version of Central Thai favored by the phuu diis who are busy with their rape, pillage and plundering of the Thai nation.

A language is simply a dialect with an army behind it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said mate, At least they will probably understand you. I have a friend in Sam Phran who speaks formal Thai or so he thinks. He goes trroooorrng pai when moving forewards and no one ever understands him.

[Bobcat]

I agree entirely with p brownstone with respect to the habit of using more formal vocabulary in most situations. I would never refer to my faen as my "pua" - it would sound vulgar beyond description.

[Neeranam]

I think that “Preuksa” = “discuss” seems way too formal to use with a tuk tuk driver. What about 'api bpraai'?

What about calling your wife 'Koon' when using her name?

I sometimes do to make the wife feel good and show others I respect her.

Similarly, she calls me Koon Neeranam when talking with everyone.

[Pudgimelon]

Referring to your wife as panrayaa in normal conversation, give me a break. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Use "palaya", not mia. It's more polite and reflects better on you and your wife.

Villagers won't cringe when you use it, and neither should you. All you are really saying is "I love and respect my wife enough to speak about her politely", what is cringe-worthy about that?

[bannork]

Referring to your wife as panrayaa in normal conversation, give me a break. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Use "palaya", not mia. It's more polite and reflects better on you and your wife.

Villagers won't cringe when you use it, and neither should you. All you are really saying is "I love and respect my wife enough to speak about her politely", what is cringe-worthy about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ผมได้ข่าวฮืฮาว่าภริยาของคุณPudgimelonมีสามีหรือผัวสองคนคือผัวหลวงชื่อ Pudgimelonเเละผัวน้อยชื่อ ObladiOblada

[Johpa]

“Faen” is certainly not middle ground between "Paraya” and “Mia”, the word is actually a Thai import derived from the English word “Fan” and implies only a close connection such as “best girl” or at most “lover” . There is no assumption of a formal or legal marriage.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most complex societies tend to differentiate the social classes with language, both with vocabulary and pronunciation. There are many books on such topics under the term socio-linguistics. And those in the upper classes will insist that there version is the official "language" while those in lower classes speak a "dialect." They will insist that their version is the correct and polite forms of the language while the lower classes speak a corrupt and more vulgar form. This goes for the Queens English in the UK to the phuu dii Central Thai of Bangkok.

It all goes to show that Thai society consists of many different sub-segments who chose to differentiate themselves somewhat by the language that they use. In the villages up north which comprise most of my social experiences with Thais, the term faen is used interchangeably with mia when referring to a spouse. Yet faen can also refer to a intimate friend as in boyfriend/ girlfriend while clearly mia may not be used in that manner. The people in the villages would never use the term phanrayaa in normal conversation just as they would never thaan ahaan. In the village one hears kin ahaan but more frequently kin khao and in the village I can just as easily kin lao and frequently do.

[OxfordWill]

even showing your 'class' perhaps, Mr. Browstone? 

From where, in any of my Posts, do you extrapolate that little gem?

From where I am sitting it's a mixture of your superior volcabulary and the fact you are correct.

Forgive my ignorance folks but I thought 'faen' was for girlfriend and not the wife? I know there is the word for 'Woman I sleep with' which is one term for 'wife' but isn't 'faen' a little too cutesy? Please correct..

[bkkmadness]

How about "ere's me bitch, Julie"

U might have to like a bit of Ali G for that one lads.

Edited December 5, 2005 by bkkmadness

[Dara]

Forgive my ignorance folks but I thought 'faen' was for girlfriend and not the wife? I know there is the word for 'Woman I sleep with' which is one term for 'wife' but isn't 'faen' a little too cutesy? Please correct..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For some reasons since the late 1960's, many Thais have chosen to refer to their spouse as "fan" instead of "pua/mia" or "sahmee/panraya (some pronouce it panya)" The term seems to be used in all socio-economic levels. Another term is "ti baan" - a little more polished than "fan" but not as formal as "sahmee/panraya."

I agree with many posters here that you should be using the vocaburaries that are understood by the listeners. In any given situation, a Thai would use a language/vacabularies appropriate for the people that s/he is addressing. There are so many levels of language that can be used. As in any language, the words chosen and the quality of the vocal tone used can convey specific meaning or nuance.

It is harder for foreign speakers to know what is right in all situations. IHMO, the guideline of what's used should be more conservative unless you don't really care what self image you are conveying. Higher class vocabularies and correct pronunciations belong in all dialects - they should be used when speaking to people that you don't know or don't know well, co-workers, service people, etc. In a more intimate setting, find out what is acceptable to the people that you are with......

[Neeranam]

Which is more polite - "pan ra ya" or "pa ra ya"?

[p_brownstone]

Which is more polite - "pan ra ya" or "pa ra ya"?

The spelling is "ภรรยา"

Patrick

[steveromagnino]

I was on the phone and sai, "hold on speak with my wife" "raw sakroo kui gab mia noi"

is this ok?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since the original post doesn't comment on who was on the other end of the line, and given that it was tongue in cheek anyway, I think this debate on meea vs. paraya vs. fairn is somewhat academic.

Todd Tongdee was the guy you mean; I think he is still doing stuff with the Nation; had some decent Thai skills although Peter and Byron of soap opera fame are probably better and more fluent than either of them within the confines of a soap opera (e.g. no business language etc).

Regarding Senor Biggs, the analogy of the 'talking bear' is not really so much the case as that Andrew was already from a media background; saw a gap in the market and promoted himself, when countless other farang who spoke Thai at a similar level had not done the same. As the first (that I can think of) he had some first mover advantage that he has been able to preserve through hard work, connections and efforts. His command of Thai, while not perfect is awesome. There are a limited number of places for Thai speaking english teachers; and he occupies the main one.

Listening to Thai people speak, currently I'd say the use of paraya in non formal situations would be uncommon. Not at a farang could not say it, just less likely to hear a Thai person say it. I certainly change the way I speak english depending who I am with; and I do the same with Thai. This is out of respect to the people around me - I would not choose to say paraya korng kaphrajao to someone upcountry, because I know at least a few might think I was trying to show off using a language they are fairly unused to hearing. Fairn pom would be already quite polite and well enough. Ditto for my friends of similar age.

On the other hand, that is exactly what I would say or similar (and be expected to say) when introducing my wife (if I had one) to my boss's Khunying mum.

Without speaking gutter Thai, there is plenty of room for a foreigner to adapt their Thai language depending on context, particularly relating to age of the person we are talking with. Never keen to hear the goo mueng stuff from foreigners...

raw sakroo kui gab mia noi >>>> raw sakroo poot gub mia pom or fairn pom or best of all raw sakroo poot gup Khun Bui (if that is her name?!) dee gua krub.

Certainly polite enough; breuksah is probably not quite appropriate unless it is a bank or someone ringing to consult or discuss on some matter...?

[yoot]

ภรรยา can be pronounced as ‘ pan ra ya ‘ and ‘ pan ya’ , both are correct.

You might be amused if you know all the words which Thai guys use for addressing their wives. We are not serious about formal or informal, rude or polite for the terms which mean ‘wife’. Thais won’t judge anyone from these common words. If anyone would be judged, it should be because of the context more than just a word to address the wife. Of course, sometimes to pick any word to use it depends on the mood of the speaker and circumstance too.

As for a Thai myself, when I address my wife to people who know her name and are familiar with us, I would address her name to them.

To people who know that I’m married but they don’t know my wife or they are not familiar with my wife, I would use ‘ faen’.

To people who don’t know anything about me, I would use ‘ pan ya’ for the reason of telling them that I’m married.

With close friends when we were joking about our wives, we often used ‘ mia’ in stead of addressing their names.

With service people, I used both ‘ faen’ and ‘ pan ya’ . But mostly used ‘ faen’ .

With girls out there who hunting guys, I would tell them ‘เมียดุ’ - mia dòo

I think that “Preuksa” = “discuss” seems way too formal to use with a tuk tuk driver. What about 'api bpraai'?

What about calling your wife 'Koon' when using her name?

I sometimes do to make the wife feel good and show others I respect her.

Similarly, she calls me Koon Neeranam when talking with everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

อภิปราย (à-pí praai) is a formal term which mostly used for discussing in a conference.

When you talk to a tuk tuk driver, you could say ‘ เดี๋ยวนะ ขอคุยกับเมียก่อน’ - dĭeow ná kŏr kui gàp mia gòn

or ‘เดี๋ยวนะ ขอปรึกษากับเมียดูก่อน’ - dĭeow ná kŏr bprèuk-săa gàp mia doo gòn

. If you want to mean you have to discuss with your wife first.

For using Khun, it depends on your preference. It sounds respectful.

[meadish_sweetball]

Hello Khun Yoot.

Good to see you back again!

[Neeranam]

  ‘เดี๋ยวนะ ขอปรึกษากับเมียดูก่อน’ - dĭeow ná kŏr bprèuk-săa gàp mia doo gòn

Thanks Ajarn Yoot - as I thought mia is alright to use.

[yoot]

Hello Khun Yoot.

Good to see you back again!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank Khun M.S.

You're welcome, Khun Neeranam.

Since we discuss about 'wife', I have a saying which Thais often use it. Just for fun.

ด่าแม่ยังพอคบ ด่าเมียที่เคารพคบไม่ได้-dàa mâe yang por kóp dàa mia têe kao-róp kóp mâi dâi

Blaming my mom is able to associate with, blaming my esteemed wife is unable to associate with.

[bannork]

Perhaps translated as: 'If I criticise my mother we can still be friends, but if I criticise my esteemed wife...best be gone'

[yoot]

Perhaps translated as: 'If I criticise my mother we can still be friends, but if I criticise my esteemed wife...best be gone'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to confess that I had problem with the translation.

But if I follow your translation it should be:

"If you criticise my mother we can still be friends, but if you criticise my esteemed wife.. best be gone"

Edited December 8, 2005 by yoot

[bannork]

Perhaps translated as: 'If I criticise my mother we can still be friends, but if I criticise my esteemed wife...best be gone'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to confess that I had problem with the translation.

But if I follow your translation it should be:

"If you criticise my mother we can still be friends, but if you criticise my esteemed wife.. best be gone"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right Yoot, I forgot that the omission of any pronoun meant it was referring to someone else,not the speaker, my error.

In fact, my translation is untenable, what mother will tolerate criticism from her child?

[Andrew Mac]

Hi everyone! :-)

Not exactly on topic, I know, but recently I was quite amused to hear some Thai women referring to their (farang) husbands as "ai kaee" ( ไอ้แก่ I think ... I guess it's the same as Western women referring to their "old man"). I don't think they knew that I could understand a fair bit of what they were saying, however ;-)

[meadish_sweetball]

Isaan ladies by any chance - my ex used to refer to her mother as 'ii kàe' - not in her presence though.

I may be wrong, but from a Central Thai standpoint it sounds pretty rude - the same rules dont apply in Isaan though.

[Andrew Mac]

Isaan ladies by any chance - my ex used to refer to her mother as 'ii kàe' - not in her presence though.

I may be wrong, but from a Central Thai standpoint it sounds pretty rude - the same rules dont apply in Isaan though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Full marks, khun Meadish!

Yes, I understand they were Isaan women.

And in fact, I did ask them about their usage of ây kɛ̀ɛ, and they said it was OK when you were married, or good friends. They also told me that it's OK for them to call each other ii kɛ̀ɛ ... so I just filed it away in my memory.

Neither are terms that I think I'll be using myself, though

NB: Edited to correct the placement of diacritics above the correct letter, but it didn't seem to work. For me at least they are still appearing incorrectly. If the forum technocrats ever think about switching the encoding to Unicode, well ... I'm sure I wouldn't be the only happy user

Edited December 9, 2005 by Andrew Mac

[Neeranam]

My little 3 year old said today - "ee paw bpai lote".

I'm sure she was put up to it though!

[Gappui]

Many senior Chinese-Thais use the pronoun "ee" too. I'm not sure why.

"Gae" is also a pronoun that's normally rude, but in many context it's acceptable, such as when speaking to a friend (esp. girl to girl) or when referring to a third person.