Phuket ATM Scams: Even Professionals Get Caught Out

[webfact]

Phuket ATM scams: Even professionals get caught out

Phuket Gazette

Phuket ATMs: If your card is compromised call the Financial Consumer Protection center on 1213.

Ian Laferme: "People need to know."

Patong Police report at least four people recently being ripped off by gangs scanning their ATM cards and stealing money from their accounts. The Phuket Gazette reports.

PHUKET: -- Alan Robinson, 71, has been living in Phuket for 17 years. As he is a former vice-president of a Swiss bank’s national branch in Japan, one can only imagine his surprise when he discovered that his ATM card had been scanned and thieves were stealing money hand-over-fist from his account.

Mr Robinson reported to Patong Police on January 6 that 140,000 baht had been taken from his Kasikorn Bank account. Thieves had apparently stolen the card’s information while he used it at an ATM on Rat-U-Thit 200 Pi Road on December 30.

On that day, Mr Robinson had withdrawn cash from the ATM opposite the Holiday Inn in Patong.

"I had withdrawn 20,000 baht but the machine wouldn’t return my card. Suddenly on my left appeared a Middle Eastern-looking man, smartly dressed, who in very good English said that it was always happening with ATMs here.

"He leaned over me, explaining I had to push some buttons to get my card back, and pushed the cancel button. I told him to go away," he said.

"My card was returned and the man just walked off. I thought it a little strange at the time but really didn’t think any more of it," he added.

It wasn’t until the evening of January 5 that Mr Robinson checked his account and discovered that the money was missing. On checking the details he found that 50,000 baht had been withdrawn on January 3 and a further 90,000 baht the next day.

"I tried to phone Kasikorn’s number in Bangkok, but it was all in Thai. Luckily a friend’s Thai girlfriend was able to speak to the bank in Bangkok and got all the details," he said.

But Kasikorn Bank had more bad news. The January 3 theft of 50,000 baht had occurred at an ATM in Bangkok, and the January 4 theft of 90,000 was accomplished through ATMs in Pattaya.

The bank was able to provide Mr Robinson with complete details concerning which ATMs had been used to steal from his account.

"I immediately went out and canceled my PIN. They’d actually tried again after the bank had put a stop on my card and PIN. It was lucky I’d canceled it. I went to the police in Patong and the bank the next day," he said.

The police showed Mr Robinson reports from three banks showing details of which ATMs the criminals used to steal his money. They were Bangkok Bank, Siam Commercial Bank and Kasikorn Bank.

"A captain in Patong Police, he was brilliant," said Mr Robinson. "He was really helpful and told me that the day before I reported the theft from my account, four tourists reported exactly the same thing. A friend of mine had had the same thing happen to him in Jungceylon a while back, and he had 170,000 stolen," he said.

"The captain told me not to worry and Kasikorn Bank have been very helpful. They’ve confirmed the money would be returned to my account after the police have completed their investigations."

Mr Robinson, who has worked in banking all his life, spent two years in Japan as the vice-president of Union Bank of Switzerland before coming to Phuket in 1994. Until a few years ago he checked his account regularly. However, having encountered no problems over the years he relaxed his guard.

"I’ve banked with Kasikorn for over 10 years and never had a problem before. Nobody else knew my PIN and I have never written it down," he said.

"The hotels should put a warning out as many tourists don’t read the newspapers," he added.

Fellow long-term expat Ian Laferme, who has been living on Phuket so long that decades ago he was actually issued Work Permit Number One by the local Labor Office, had a harder road to travel to get his money back.

Through the assistance of a tenacious friend, it has taken a year of hounding police reports, banking authorities and consumer protection agencies to get his money back.

Finally, last week he received the good news. The bank that holds his account that was pillaged by ATM scammers will refund the money stolen.

More than 240,000 baht was withdrawn from his account from ATMs in Bangkok and Pattaya. "And I have have many, many witnesses to prove that I was in Phuket the whole time, and my card was with me," he said.

"Some people in the bank have been very helpful," he added, despite many of his initial attempts to even solicit a reply from top bank officials were ignored.

In the end it was the Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) in Bangkok that provided the final impetus for the money to be returned.

"They reviewed our case several times before deciding Ian’s case was worth pursing legally. But once they [the OCPB] started moving forward with the case, that seemed to do the trick," Mr Laferme’s friend said.

Like Mr Robinson, Mr Laferme was happy his money was returned, but was more concerned for the unsuspecting victims still out there, prime targets for ATM scammers.

"The most important thing is that people know that this can happen to them and that there are ways for them to get their money back," he said.

Kasikorn Bank’s Patcharee Fongcharoen at Patong Beach branch, told the Gazette that: "ATM theft was on the rise, with all banks reporting similar incidents.

"Our head office in Bangkok is currently working on defensive measures.

"In the meantime I advise people to use ATMs either inside or at the front of the banks. We recommend that our customers use Kasikorn ATMs only as they are all fitted with an anti-tamper system to prevent unauthorized modification," she added.

Lt Col Songserm Preecha told the Gazette that as of January 5, six ATM scam cases had been reported to Patong Police this year. He is dealing with two of them.

"Unless someone knows them, it’s not easy to identify the criminals even if we have their faces on camera. Especially in Pattaya or Patong," he said.

"I have suggested that banks [in Patong] have their workers routinely check each ATM.

"To prevent their customers from falling prey to the scammers we will also suggest this to other banks in Phuket," said Col Songserm.

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...ticle12093.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-01-23

[Gillespie]

I tried to phone Kasikorn’s number in Bangkok, but it was all in Thai.

The bloody nerve.

[bob4you]

Let us know if K bank really returns your money, if I was a betting man I know what I would bet.

[talexndr]

And the point is:

A) Avoid all ATM's not in a bank (98% of ATM's).

Avoid all ATM's with Middle Eastern-looking man, smartly dressed, with very good English lurking around

C) Avoid Thailand

D) Read the bad news and go to the temple to pray for "lucKY"

So are non-bank ATM's physically tampered with? How? Are there any signs? What are the signs? How can ATM's be tampered with and the bank NOT know about it? Banks here have no security measures on their ATM's? Or are the banks in on it as money flows up hill?

This story is like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

[fiercesnake]

Phuket AGAIN???!!! Is there a day where Phuket is NOT in the news about some scam? Patong AGAIN? Why do people persist to go there? For all the glorious places in Thailand the magnet of Patong continues to attract the naive and even the not so naive.

Until tourists vote with their feet to choose better areas of which there are many (even on Phuket) these scams will persist and the BIB (soon to be GIB if the girls programme is widened!) will continue to drag their feet in response. But of course not to lose face the commanders will have many press conferences saying how hard they are working to combat crime there. Same old.

[MikeCritchley]

I don't really get the scam...the guy is saying that he wants people to be aware...of what? Was it a hidden camera that recorded his PIN and a card scanner on top of the regular ATM? Or was the middle eastern dude somehow responsible just by hitting the cancel button? Seems unlikely. Anyway, I'd love to know the exact MO these guys are using to skim the card info and pin numbers.

[ripstanley]

I am with the SCB. I pay 10 baht a month to receive a SMS after every transaction.

[hehehoho]

Kasikorn Bank have been very helpful. They’ve confirmed the money would be returned to my account after the police have completed their investigations."

I hope he got that in writing.

[PETERTHEEATER]

How are these thieves able to take so much cash from a single account via an ATM in one day? My accounts have limits.

[hehehoho]

I am with the SCB. I pay 10 baht a month to receive a SMS after every transaction.

How easy is it for an SCB staff member to disable that?

I'd imagine it's a click of the button.

I'm sure Thai bank employees are completely trustworthy and would never get involved in a fraud for some easy cash though.

[happysoul]

I wonder how these guys get your PIN number... Using a camera that films your tiping ? If so, easy to avoid, always hide your tiping hand with the other, isn't it ?

If now they get from the ATM machine's core, that a big security failure to improve asap.

[scorecard]

I am with the SCB. I pay 10 baht a month to receive a SMS after every transaction.

How easy is it for an SCB staff member to disable that?

I'd imagine it's a click of the button.

I'm sure Thai bank employees are completely trustworthy and would never get involved in a fraud for some easy cash though.

You remind me, a Thai bank senior manager once told me that all Thai banks run ramdon 'audit' programs several times every hour.

One purpose is to check if there has been any inside activity.

The whole thing came up after a 'team' of internal IT staff at one bank ran a program (numerous times), which skimmed 50 satang off every savings account - in total quite a number of millions of Baht.

[lucjoker]

10 years ago,i needed 50 000 bht as a deposit on land,i went in a bank (on the seaside ,50 m from walking street)and

i asked if i could use my visa card to withdraw 50 000 bht.

No problem,they took my card in a back-office to check the card.

It came back with a ok and i got the 50 000 bht.

^ months later i got a phone call from VISA,to ask if i was on holliday in England,i wasnt(i lived i Belgium).

They said that someone was using my card to shop arround in London (180 000 bht)

The next day the crook was arrested,it was a thai who worked in the bank in Pattaya !

So never ,never give your card out off your hands !

And dont thrust bankpersonel for a second !

[eTiMaGo]

How are these thieves able to take so much cash from a single account via an ATM in one day? My accounts have limits.

100,000 a day for local cards usually? A well-stocked account, a week without the owner checking on it, that adds up to a lot of dough...

Personally I keep my bank account with just 120B, being broke is the best protection against these scams

[anterian]

There is a very simple way to prevent this. First you need two bank accounts, most banks allow a maximum of five. Then you need to set up internet banking for these accounts. Keep all your money in one account and have no ATM card for this account. Then on your second account have an ATM card, keep a few thousands Baht in this account (domestic shopping level). Top this card up as needed by doing a transfer from your main account. This way the most you can ever lose is a few thousand Baht. I use the SCB for this. Incidentally, I use my English Natwest account to top up my SCB account so yet a further layer of protection.

[z12]

the new "i love phuket" commercial (check her shirt)

http://shine.yahoo.c...-200200748.html

Edited January 23, 2012 by z12

[blackthorn2005]

Phuket AGAIN???!!! Is there a day where Phuket is NOT in the news about some scam? Patong AGAIN? Why do people persist to go there? For all the glorious places in Thailand the magnet of Patong continues to attract the naive and even the not so naive.

Until tourists vote with their feet to choose better areas of which there are many (even on Phuket) these scams will persist and the BIB (soon to be GIB if the girls programme is widened!) will continue to drag their feet in response. But of course not to lose face the commanders will have many press conferences saying how hard they are working to combat crime there. Same old.

Nothing will happen here, the Tourist Police in Phuket think they are on holiday, never answer the '1155' help line and if you go to their HQ, they tell you to go somewhere else, complete waste of time and space!

[SabaiBKK]

Phuket AGAIN???!!! Is there a day where Phuket is NOT in the news about some scam? Patong AGAIN? Why do people persist to go there? For all the glorious places in Thailand the magnet of Patong continues to attract the naive and even the not so naive.

Until tourists vote with their feet to choose better areas of which there are many (even on Phuket) these scams will persist and the BIB (soon to be GIB if the girls programme is widened!) will continue to drag their feet in response. But of course not to lose face the commanders will have many press conferences saying how hard they are working to combat crime there. Same old.

your post is so typical of thailand bashing on TV , you just forgot the proverbial " another nail ..." otherwise i would have thought that you copied and pasted it from another topic

[z12]

A bankster got bankstered, must be karma.

[StrandedBusinessPerson]

And the point is:

A) Avoid all ATM's not in a bank (98% of ATM's).

Avoid all ATM's with Middle Eastern-looking man, smartly dressed, with very good English lurking around

C) Avoid Thailand

D) Read the bad news and go to the temple to pray for "lucKY"

So are non-bank ATM's physically tampered with? How? Are there any signs? What are the signs? How can ATM's be tampered with and the bank NOT know about it? Banks here have no security measures on their ATM's? Or are the banks in on it as money flows up hill?

This story is like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

No, I think the story is accurate but leaves out the details on how it's done (for good reason). For that, see Krebs: http://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/atm-skimmer/

[SabaiBKK]

How are these thieves able to take so much cash from a single account via an ATM in one day? My accounts have limits.

100,000 a day for local cards usually? A well-stocked account, a week without the owner checking on it, that adds up to a lot of dough...

Personally I keep my bank account with just 120B, being broke is the best protection against these scams

personally I have 2 bank accounts at kasikorn 1 with a card and one without card .... when i need cash or go on holiday( whatever) I transfer what I need via internet from the no card account to the carded account before withdrawal, otherwise I never have more than 2000 baht on the card account. Initially i did this after I forgot my card at the ATM but its a very good prevention against skimmers .

[SabaiBKK]

There is a very simple way to prevent this. First you need two bank accounts, most banks allow a maximum of five. Then you need to set up internet banking for these accounts. Keep all your money in one account and have no ATM card for this account. Then on your second account have an ATM card, keep a few thousands Baht in this account (domestic shopping level). Top this card up as needed by doing a transfer from your main account. This way the most you can ever lose is a few thousand Baht. I use the SCB for this. Incidentally, I use my English Natwest account to top up my SCB account so yet a further layer of protection.

ok I didn't see your post prior to writing mine

[fiercesnake]

Phuket AGAIN???!!! Is there a day where Phuket is NOT in the news about some scam? Patong AGAIN? Why do people persist to go there? For all the glorious places in Thailand the magnet of Patong continues to attract the naive and even the not so naive.

Until tourists vote with their feet to choose better areas of which there are many (even on Phuket) these scams will persist and the BIB (soon to be GIB if the girls programme is widened!) will continue to drag their feet in response. But of course not to lose face the commanders will have many press conferences saying how hard they are working to combat crime there. Same old.

your post is so typical of thailand bashing on TV , you just forgot the proverbial " another nail ..." otherwise i would have thought that you copied and pasted it from another topic

You have failed to read the reply thoroughly, typical of TV posters that reply quickly without thinking. It indicates the area of Patong in Phuket and the police which exist there have a major problem with constant scams and lack of change. This is not a bash of Thailand in general. Note that it says there are many more areas in Thailand which are "glorious" (oh is that Thailand bashing?). If we can not discuss areas of Thailand which need improving then you really are truly naive!

Phuket is in the news everyday, especially Patong, with the same basic message of scam after scam, closely followed by some police commander sprouting how they will have yet another "crack-down" but you know what - NOTHING changes there! Tomorrow or within a few days there will be yet another report of the same style. Perhaps I'll look out for it and post a copy for you and then perhaps you can suggest when the posts come thick and fast that the posters are all "Thai bashers"? Perhaps some posters just want a better Thailand than scam after scam?

[z12]

Phuket AGAIN???!!! Is there a day where Phuket is NOT in the news about some scam? Patong AGAIN? Why do people persist to go there? For all the glorious places in Thailand the magnet of Patong continues to attract the naive and even the not so naive.

Until tourists vote with their feet to choose better areas of which there are many (even on Phuket) these scams will persist and the BIB (soon to be GIB if the girls programme is widened!) will continue to drag their feet in response. But of course not to lose face the commanders will have many press conferences saying how hard they are working to combat crime there. Same old.

your post is so typical of thailand bashing on TV , you just forgot the proverbial " another nail ..." otherwise i would have thought that you copied and pasted it from another topic

You have failed to read the reply thoroughly, typical of TV posters that reply quickly without thinking. It indicates the area of Patong in Phuket and the police which exist there have a major problem with constant scams and lack of change. This is not a bash of Thailand in general. Note that it says there are many more areas in Thailand which are "glorious" (oh is that Thailand bashing?). If we can not discuss areas of Thailand which need improving then you really are truly naive!

Phuket is in the news everyday, especially Patong, with the same basic message of scam after scam, closely followed by some police commander sprouting how they will have yet another "crack-down" but you know what - NOTHING changes there! Tomorrow or within a few days there will be yet another report of the same style. Perhaps I'll look out for it and post a copy for you and then perhaps you can suggest when the posts come thick and fast that the posters are all "Thai bashers"? Perhaps some posters just want a better Thailand than scam after scam?

beware of wolves in monks clothing

Officials warn of ‘fake monks’ targeting Phuket tourists

http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/articles/2012/article12076.html

[SabaiBKK]

Phuket AGAIN???!!! Is there a day where Phuket is NOT in the news about some scam? Patong AGAIN? Why do people persist to go there? For all the glorious places in Thailand the magnet of Patong continues to attract the naive and even the not so naive.

Until tourists vote with their feet to choose better areas of which there are many (even on Phuket) these scams will persist and the BIB (soon to be GIB if the girls programme is widened!) will continue to drag their feet in response. But of course not to lose face the commanders will have many press conferences saying how hard they are working to combat crime there. Same old.

your post is so typical of thailand bashing on TV , you just forgot the proverbial " another nail ..." otherwise i would have thought that you copied and pasted it from another topic

You have failed to read the reply thoroughly, typical of TV posters that reply quickly without thinking. It indicates the area of Patong in Phuket and the police which exist there have a major problem with constant scams and lack of change. This is not a bash of Thailand in general. Note that it says there are many more areas in Thailand which are "glorious" (oh is that Thailand bashing?). If we can not discuss areas of Thailand which need improving then you really are truly naive!

Phuket is in the news everyday, especially Patong, with the same basic message of scam after scam, closely followed by some police commander sprouting how they will have yet another "crack-down" but you know what - NOTHING changes there! Tomorrow or within a few days there will be yet another report of the same style. Perhaps I'll look out for it and post a copy for you and then perhaps you can suggest when the posts come thick and fast that the posters are all "Thai bashers"? Perhaps some posters just want a better Thailand than scam after scam?

i didn't question if your post was right or wrong ( and i mostly agree with it) i just noted that its a typical TV post looking like a copy and paste of so many other similar posts .... there should be an emoticon resuming the " another nail.., patong hell hole, pattaya hell hole, BIB scammers etc etc...) just to save people some time instead of writing the same post over and over .... :yawn:

[BookMan]

Living in Thailand for 17 years and STILL had to get a friend's TGF to speak to the bank!

Learn some Thai my man!!

Edited January 23, 2012 by BookMan

[talexndr]

Thank you Advanced Member listed in post #20 for this link:

"No, I think the story is accurate but leaves out the details on how it's done (for good reason). For that, see Krebs: http://krebsonsecuri...ag/atm-skimmer/"

Absolutely amazing details and photos! And scary. In any country apparently. And ANY ATM including those near banks. Time to reorganize my accounts and cards and ATM withdrawl patterns.

Criminals SUCK!

[BWPattaya]

On December 22nd I tried to withdraw 10,000 Bt from my UK current account, using a Krung Sri ATM inside Tesco Lotus, South Pattaya. As is my usual practice I covered the key pad with my left hand. I got the message 'Transacction cancelled. Contact your bank'. OK, perhaps it is over the daily limit so I tried again for 5,000 Bt. Same result, no cash and transaction cancelled. OK, use my Kasikron ATM card in the Kasikron machin. No problem.

I just decided that there was a glitch in the system that connects to banks overseas. It has happened before.

However, the next day I checked my account online to make sure my pension had gone in and saw that two withdrawals had been made, equivalent to the 10,000 Bt and 5,000 Bt, in Stalingrad. I phoned the Cooperative Bank in the UK Immediately and told them. The person I was speaking with asked me in all seriousness "Is there any chance you have forgotten you have been to Russia". She then told me the scammers had tried to use my card in Kiev as well. The bank had already cancelled my card and they gave my the cash back within 24 hours. Well done the Cooperative Bank.

This theft happened without anyone seeing my card or watching what I was doing. It seems that my card was cloned and the details sent wirelessly to someone else then sent on to someone in Russia.

I also contacted the Krung Sri bank to advice them that the ATM has had some cloning software installed. They checked the machine soon afterwards.

I have always been very careful about using ATMs everywhere but they caught me this time.

[RichardSlack]

I don't really get the scam...the guy is saying that he wants people to be aware...of what? Was it a hidden camera that recorded his PIN and a card scanner on top of the regular ATM? Or was the middle eastern dude somehow responsible just by hitting the cancel button? Seems unlikely. Anyway, I'd love to know the exact MO these guys are using to skim the card info and pin numbers.

You can't skim pin numbers, they arent encoded on the card. The old way of running this scam was to have a simple card reader getting the data and one of the scammers near the machine pretending to talk on their mobile phone, while there were really using the camera to record the persons finger movements. There is probably a slightly more flashy version of the scam being run now though.

[Jayman]

Another good idea is to use the sms service that SCB offers that will send you an immediate sms when any activity occurs on your account. It only costs a few thb a month and is well worth the peace of mind.