How Do You Cope/Plan To Cope In Thailand When 70+

[lovelomsak]

My plan is simple when I get to a point were taking car of myself is a problem I simply hire a caregiver to move into my home here in Thailand and take care of me.Pay her an bove average salary and hope she does a decent job.

who will manage your money in case you will be mentally handicapped?

My personnal banker already handles my money and shall do so till the end. The best a caregiver couldget away with would be to take my living allowance I have established and not take care of me. If I was incapable of taking care of myself I probably wouldnot know anyways.

[Naam]

My plan is simple when I get to a point were taking car of myself is a problem I simply hire a caregiver to move into my home here in Thailand and take care of me.Pay her an bove average salary and hope she does a decent job.

who will manage your money in case you will be mentally handicapped?

My personnal banker already handles my money and shall do so till the end. The best a caregiver couldget away with would be to take my living allowance I have established and not take care of me. If I was incapable of taking care of myself I probably wouldnot know anyways.

"the best a caregiver could..." exactly to that i was referring to.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I guess you could pre arrange a trusted relative to distribute funds as needed if you are living off savings and small income and investments that are stagnant and could shrink further??

I've often thought about that (whom to entrust with financial management were I to become incapacitated)... and the thinking has been complicated by a situation (probably not uncommon here) wherein I'd expect to still have a lot of different kinds of financial assets in the U.S., but I'd be living in Thailand and spending here.

I'm not really sure my Thai wife would be up to the task of properly managing those U.S. investments were I to be incapacitated somehow... And similarly, if I die at some point prior to my wife, I'd really like to make some advance arrangements to make sure my estate is properly managed to ensure she has income for life...instead of just turning over a lump sum.

Problem is, I'm not sure how to accomplish either of those tasks... I don't really have any relative that's younger than me that I'd trust with the task. And frankly, I'm not even sure how to find an executor for my estate who'd be up to handling the U.S.-Thailand financial aspects of things in a smart way...

It's a muddle... And if anyone has any good ideas about such things, I'd sure like to here them.

1. Your assets are mostly in the U.S. (or another country other than Thailand), but you're living and become incapacitated in Thailand, and you don't have a family member up to the task... What then?

2. Your assets are mostly in your home country, but you end up dying in Thailand. How to best ensure that your estate is well-managed to ensure a lifetime income for your spouse?

[thaibeachlovers]

I will just hope for the best as I have always done. There is a place for old farangs to stay when they can not take care of themselves in Chiang Mai that is getting good reports and it is not too expensive, so that is always an option.

How about a bottle of sleeping pills and a box of matches?

I can't really imagine myself withering away in a nursing home.

The sleeping pills sound about right, but the only thing the matches should be used for is to light the kabuki. You may not have seen anyone with severe burns, but trust me it's not what you'd want if you were "rescued" before burning to death.

[thaibeachlovers]

I guess you could pre arrange a trusted relative to distribute funds as needed if you are living off savings and small income and investments that are stagnant and could shrink further??

I've often thought about that (whom to entrust with financial management were I to become incapacitated)... and the thinking has been complicated by a situation (probably not uncommon here) wherein I'd expect to still have a lot of different kinds of financial assets in the U.S., but I'd be living in Thailand and spending here.

I'm not really sure my Thai wife would be up to the task of properly managing those U.S. investments were I to be incapacitated somehow... And similarly, if I die at some point prior to my wife, I'd really like to make some advance arrangements to make sure my estate is properly managed to ensure she has income for life...instead of just turning over a lump sum.

Problem is, I'm not sure how to accomplish either of those tasks... I don't really have any relative that's younger than me that I'd trust with the task. And frankly, I'm not even sure how to find an executor for my estate who'd be up to handling the U.S.-Thailand financial aspects of things in a smart way...

It's a muddle... And if anyone has any good ideas about such things, I'd sure like to here them.

1. Your assets are mostly in the U.S. (or another country other than Thailand), but you're living and become incapacitated in Thailand, and you don't have a family member up to the task... What then?

2. Your assets are mostly in your home country, but you end up dying in Thailand. How to best ensure that your estate is well-managed to ensure a lifetime income for your spouse?

Can't you set up a trust?

[thaibeachlovers]

Maybe Thai Visa should open a new 'Oldies' sub forum, where we can discuss issue such as our own methods of warding off Altzheimer's...

I think you will find that there are many farangs here in their 70's 80's and even 90's... I personally have across quite a few when I have been out and about.

Surely, at the end of the day it is all down to money. If you have sufficient funds then however sick or infirm you become, you can afford to have the necessary medical attention and care. If your funds are limited, then as you start to become infirm and sickly, you should seriously consider re-repatriating to you home country before it is too late to do so.

As for retirement homes for farangs, I believe there are already such establishments in Thailand. Indeed I know for a fact that there are, as ten years ago I was considering investing in such a project and did some research on this subject.

You are absolutely correct. Money is all in old age.

Personally, having seen what happens to old people that need care ( in my nurse training ) nothing would make me submit to being in a care home if I had the strength to off myself. If I have the money to hire a personal carer and live in my own home that is one thing, but being penniless and thrown into a state "retirement home" is, IMO, a fate worse than death.

[farang000999]

nursing homes in the USA see to it that every penny in your bank accounts does not go with you to the afterlife.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Can't you set up a trust?

To be administered by whom? That's kind of the point of my questions.

[StreetCowboy]

When I'm entering my dotage, I'll probably need to give up my job in the circus, for a start...

[thaibeachlovers]

My plan is simple when I get to a point were taking car of myself is a problem I simply hire a caregiver to move into my home here in Thailand and take care of me.Pay her an bove average salary and hope she does a decent job.

who will manage your money in case you will be mentally handicapped?

Yes.....that's the big question. If you are married to a Thai woman, chances are likely she is not the best money manager [no offense to those married to a thrifty Thai Chinese] and you could find your funds drained without even knowing it.

With my father's advancing age and dementia, he became incapable of managing his finances and luckily I was there and even without Thai POA, we managed even though his costs were increasing along with his deterioration. People with dementia are mostly in denial and often paranoid and delusional and on several occasions my father falsely accused all of us who were his 'caregiving army' with his best interests at heart.

Dementia is a devil of aging that we often are not prepared for and takes it's toll on those care giving. And with dementia, would you remember where you left your 'china white'?? or even what to do with it??

I guess you could pre arrange a trusted relative to distribute funds as needed if you are living off savings and small income and investments that are stagnant and could shrink further??

food for thought........

I had a similar experience with my father, who had made NO arrangements for his finances. he became demented and my sister was trying to sort out his finances, which was made very difficult as he would not sign the necessary papers.

I strongly advise everyone reading this thread to make arrangements while they are still competent, as if they become incapacitated or demented it takes the courts to sort it out, and most of the money will probably go to the lawyers.

A legal arrangement made while competent will be a fraction of the cost involved otherwise, and don't forget that if you are living in Thailand, it will be even more difficult and expensive.

[Mike45]

Can't you set up a trust?

To be administered by whom? That's kind of the point of my questions.

Administrative Trustee Services from the Personal Trust Services Division of Charles Schwab Bank. Maybe they can help.

[Old Croc]

I guess you could pre arrange a trusted relative to distribute funds as needed if you are living off savings and small income and investments that are stagnant and could shrink further??

I've often thought about that (whom to entrust with financial management were I to become incapacitated)... and the thinking has been complicated by a situation (probably not uncommon here) wherein I'd expect to still have a lot of different kinds of financial assets in the U.S., but I'd be living in Thailand and spending here.

I'm not really sure my Thai wife would be up to the task of properly managing those U.S. investments were I to be incapacitated somehow... And similarly, if I die at some point prior to my wife, I'd really like to make some advance arrangements to make sure my estate is properly managed to ensure she has income for life...instead of just turning over a lump sum.

Problem is, I'm not sure how to accomplish either of those tasks... I don't really have any relative that's younger than me that I'd trust with the task. And frankly, I'm not even sure how to find an executor for my estate who'd be up to handling the U.S.-Thailand financial aspects of things in a smart way...

It's a muddle... And if anyone has any good ideas about such things, I'd sure like to here them.

1. Your assets are mostly in the U.S. (or another country other than Thailand), but you're living and become incapacitated in Thailand, and you don't have a family member up to the task... What then?

2. Your assets are mostly in your home country, but you end up dying in Thailand. How to best ensure that your estate is well-managed to ensure a lifetime income for your spouse?

My financial situation is similar and I have the same concerns.

My thoughts are that, I would liquidate the investments, and transfer all monies from Oz to a joint account here sometime before dementia takes over, but that would leave me open to the possibility of the care ceasing when the money is available for the taking.

I would like to believe I made good choices and that would never happen, but you never know.

Perhaps put it into an account no one else can access unless/until the will allows it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I would like to believe I made good choices and that would never happen, but you never know.

Perhaps put it into an account no one else can access unless/until the will allows it.

Well, of course, that kind of approach wouldn't help much during the period prior to a person's death when they might be physically or mentally incapacitated.... The will provisions would only come into play after the person's death.

One way to handle this kind of thing, I guess, would be to take out an annuity while you're still alive and kicking... I believe they have ones that can payout under different circumstances.... and can be structured to either cease payment upon a person's death or continue longer and cease payment upon the spouse's death.

The good thing about annuities is they provide a pretty much guaranteed regular month to month income stream... So no worries about a greedy relation blowing through a person's entire estate, or mismanaging yours or their future finances. A set payment comes from the annuity every month for whatever duration is specified.

The drawbacks to that, however, are several (with the caveat that I'm no expert about these things, at least yet).

1) annuities typically are issued by insurance companies, and if that insurance company happens to go under any time during the time of your annuity, I think you're pretty much SOL. So be very careful which annuity provider you choose.

2) the payment rate for annuities is largely linked to the prevailing interest rates at the time the annuity is taken out. So right now, with the world interest rates at historically low levels and likely to stay there for some time, the rate of return being offered right now would be pretty low. Though that's not to say it might to change and rise again in the future, if one can afford to wait to take out an annuity until that time comes.

3) the world of annuities is full of a lot of fairly disreputable and dishonest players.... so you really have to be careful about who you're dealing with and verify the promises that sales people make to ensure what they say matches what's in the terms of your annuity contract.

and 4) I guess I should have added, let's say you structure an annuity to cover you and your wife until whichever of you is the last to die (the insurers calculate that based on the remaining life expectancy of the younger spouse). But then, both of you die together after a couple of years in a bus or van crash in Thailand. All the money put into that annuity would be gone, assuming both of you met some premature death. No refunds provided, as best as I understand it.

Separately, I'm a Schwab customer, so I guess I ought to talk with the folks at Schwab mentioned in the post above... Never even heard of that part of Schwab before... But it certainly would be worth looking into...

My parents had a living trust during their lifetime, and they were the trustees for it... and my brother and would become trustees eventually in their place. But in my situation, I don't really have another family member likely to survive me who could be the trustee for my trust. So it would need to be someone else, if I was to go that route.

Edited January 30, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[waza]

Hmmm interesting thread........ My Mia is the same age as me, so I cant rely on her to nurse me when I am a dribbling mess. Looks like I better find a couple young Mia Nois to push us both around lol.

[necronx99]

I guess you could pre arrange a trusted relative to distribute funds as needed if you are living off savings and small income and investments that are stagnant and could shrink further??

I've often thought about that (whom to entrust with financial management were I to become incapacitated)... and the thinking has been complicated by a situation (probably not uncommon here) wherein I'd expect to still have a lot of different kinds of financial assets in the U.S., but I'd be living in Thailand and spending here.

I'm not really sure my Thai wife would be up to the task of properly managing those U.S. investments were I to be incapacitated somehow... And similarly, if I die at some point prior to my wife, I'd really like to make some advance arrangements to make sure my estate is properly managed to ensure she has income for life...instead of just turning over a lump sum.

Problem is, I'm not sure how to accomplish either of those tasks... I don't really have any relative that's younger than me that I'd trust with the task. And frankly, I'm not even sure how to find an executor for my estate who'd be up to handling the U.S.-Thailand financial aspects of things in a smart way...

It's a muddle... And if anyone has any good ideas about such things, I'd sure like to here them.

1. Your assets are mostly in the U.S. (or another country other than Thailand), but you're living and become incapacitated in Thailand, and you don't have a family member up to the task... What then?

2. Your assets are mostly in your home country, but you end up dying in Thailand. How to best ensure that your estate is well-managed to ensure a lifetime income for your spouse?

My financial situation is similar and I have the same concerns.

My thoughts are that, I would liquidate the investments, and transfer all monies from Oz to a joint account here sometime before dementia takes over, but that would leave me open to the possibility of the care ceasing when the money is available for the taking.

I would like to believe I made good choices and that would never happen, but you never know.

Perhaps put it into an account no one else can access unless/until the will allows it.

See a lawyer in your home country. Have a will declaring that your assets are to be realized and then placed into a trust fund managed by the law firm or a bank with a set percentage released to your benificiary as you see fit. There will be fees, so you need to have a reasonable amount to make this economical.

There is in fact nothing stopping you from doing this (trust fund) while you are still kicking.

Edited January 30, 2012 by necronx99

[KeyserSoze01]

Can't you set up a trust?

To be administered by whom? That's kind of the point of my questions.

You can assign one or more trustees to manage your trust / estate / corporation / etc. however you want to manage your funds. Trustees can be anyone from a family member to an attorney. You stipulate, in writing, how you want your affairs handled and the trustees carry out your wishes. There is usually an annual retainer required for a law firm to perform these tasks. Regular communications between you and the trustees assures your current wishes are being met and confirms your health, state of mind and well being.

[SVS]

I will be 73 by time I arrive in LOS this May, and have just read 7 pages of this subject with great interest. While I plan and hope that I will not need the use of this info for the next 20-30 years, I hope that we as farangs could start a Trust Company in Thailand for farangs run by farangs to administer trusts as we would want,

before I would be in a state to require such a service. Ideally this would be as a back up for the Thai traditional way, the children cares for the elders and since the majority of the care fails to the youngest daughter, by Thai tradition the youngest daughter inherits the balance of funds and the family home.

[necronx99]

I will be 73 by time I arrive in LOS this May, and have just read 7 pages of this subject with great interest. While I plan and hope that I will not need the use of this info for the next 20-30 years, I hope that we as farangs could start a Trust Company in Thailand for farangs run by farangs to administer trusts as we would want,

before I would be in a state to require such a service. Ideally this would be as a back up for the Thai traditional way, the children cares for the elders and since the majority of the care fails to the youngest daughter, by Thai tradition the youngest daughter inherits the balance of funds and the family home.

I don't want to rain on your parade but......

Put it in an offshore trust with regular medical and psych evaluations from a select list of Thai institutions required for conditional continuance or changes.

Next to bargirls and brothers in law,the next biggest sharks in this pool are other "reputable Farangs"

I work in Risk, and every time some dimwit CFO or CEO says, no we don't need that control I point out that after every single financial scandal in history some other dimwit CFO or CEO has had to get up in front of the board or shareholders and utter the words "We trusted him/her/them implicitly".....

Edited January 31, 2012 by necronx99

[exeter]

Timing and planning are everything in life and especially with this subject. We hope everything goes great and die in our sleep, the night before you left your will with a trusted friend, but often that does not happen.

Think ahead and do all your planning whilst you are still able and make sure trusted friends/family etc are aware of your wishes.

Make a will for Thailand and if needed one for your homeland if you are keeping things seperate. Keep the wills simple so that your views are clear and concise.

Make arrangments for your failing health in good time as well. perhaps will not have medical insurance and will need to address that probably with "cash at Bank".

If you have a partner/wife or g/f discuss with them what part you expect them to play as time goes on, there are no guarantees in life and you have to trust people, choose your freinds wisely.

Give yourself plenty of time to put things in place.